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HELP #303773
06/01/07 11:48 PM
06/01/07 11:48 PM

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Mom has 2 babies they are 7 days old. One boy and One girl. I think she has a very young baby ip too. Both of the babies that are oop have little bites on their faces like they irratated her and she nipped at them. They aren't horrible wounds but enough to scare me. Yesterday girl had bites, today they both do. Also, I took them out of the cage to hold them a second ago and brother started ATTACKING sister. Brother looks healthy, but sister is alot skinnier than him. Her hip bones a pretty visible, but his aren't at all. I am going to run to wally world right now and get some puppy milk replacer to start supplementing her, but should I completely take her out since brother is atacking her and mom is annoyed?? Or might supplimenting be enough? Or will time tell? Ack, alot of questions! I hope someone replies by the time I get back from wal-mart!

oh by the way, yes she is a first time mom. worried

Re: HELP [Re: ] #303777
06/01/07 11:59 PM
06/01/07 11:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
ValkyrieMome  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
Oh no! The bite/scratch marks sound like the warning signs of rejection.

But then it sounds like the brother is instigating fighting?

How does the mom react? I would say it sounds like brother is chasing sister away, and she *at the very least* needs to be supplement fed.

But if the facial scratches are not from sibling fighting, but rather from mom, you might have to pull both of them and hand feed!

Make sure you read everything on Suz's site here:
http://www.suzsugargliders.com/handraisingajoey.htm

I really don't know. I've never had joeys. From what I've read, I'd be very cautious tonight. Supplement feed the girl every 2 hours. And do you know mom nipped at them? If you know she did, I'd say definately pull the girl, and maybe the boy too.


Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
Re: HELP [Re: ValkyrieMome] #303780
06/02/07 12:13 AM
06/02/07 12:13 AM
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 7,297
Quincy, IL
glidrz5 Offline
Serious Glideritis
glidrz5  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 7,297
Quincy, IL
I'm no expert, but with Mom nipping at the joeys it does sound like they need pulled NOW before they become seriously injured. The person you need to talk to is Suz, she will be able to let you know what needs to be done as far as feeding & care. You can contact her "For Rejected Joey OR Health Emergencies, you can contact me 24/7 at 440-953-0904 (home) OR 440-520-4799 (cell)".
Please keep us updated on how the little ones are doing.


Chris
Illusion, Malcom, Isabell, Annabelle, Zach, Isis, Aly & Indy
AND Miss Emmy & Miss Chloe kitties

:rbridge: My Angels: You are always in my heart.

You've flown to the rainbow
and wait there for me
Someday I will join you
together to be


Re: HELP [Re: ValkyrieMome] #303781
06/02/07 12:16 AM
06/02/07 12:16 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 210
Ohio
S
SpikenPea Offline
Glider Explorer
SpikenPea  Offline
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S

Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 210
Ohio
You have great advice. As ValkyrieMome said you also need to determine if the bites are from mom or brother. Our joey's just reached 11 weeks OOP, but fortunately for us things went perfect. However this is unfortunate for you because I have never been in your situation. So supplement her every 2 hours and after feeding her try and place her back in the pouch to see if mom will take her. Also I am wondering one thing. Are you sure they are bite marks and not claw marks. So keep us informed and hope things go OK and hope you don't have to long of a night.

Keep in touch


Zookeeper of
our special kids Scooter, Snoopy, Digger, and Rascal
3 Dogs - Trixie and Lilly
3 Cats - Munchkin, Gizmo and Squeaker
1 Naked Mole Rat aka Chihuahua - KiKi
2 Brats (Kids)
and 1 Boss or so She Thinks.LOL (The wife)
Re: HELP [Re: SpikenPea] #303787
06/02/07 12:31 AM
06/02/07 12:31 AM
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,763
Connecticut
Kitkatt1216 Offline
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Kitkatt1216  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,763
Connecticut
Id def. supplement for now. And watch very close! At the first sight of mom doing the damage I would pull right away.


Katrina
Owned by Murphy and Peanut

**RIP My loves Amunet, MiaKoda, and Kieko**
Re: HELP [Re: Kitkatt1216] #303937
06/02/07 11:29 AM
06/02/07 11:29 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,788
Cleveland, Ohio
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
sugarglidersuz  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,788
Cleveland, Ohio
With facial wounds already on both joeys, they really should be pulled NOW! Otherwise, you may very well find that they have been cannibalized. The female especially is of deep concern to me. She shouldn't look emaciated at all. She needs to be pulled and hand-raised right away. You will need to feed her every 1.5 - 2 hours around the clock and she may very well need sub-q fluids from the vet's right away because she's probably also dehydrated.
Please let us know how they are doing and please DO call me if you have questions. worried


Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders
Re: HELP [Re: sugarglidersuz] #304190
06/02/07 06:04 PM
06/02/07 06:04 PM

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Aww, man. I couldn't find what happened to my post last night.
I got home from wal-mart and pulled her and a fed her. She ate ok. I made an incubator like on your site Suz, it worked well, thanks. Then an hour later I fed her again and she ate really good. about an hour and a half later I went to feed her again and SHE WOULD NOT OPEN HER MOUTH. I thought I was going to break her teeny little mouth trying to get it open. I was losing her, she was barely moving when before she would pop around now and then. This whole time she was sooo skinny. I could count her ribs. She got way to skinny in a matter of hours, I always checked the babies every 4 hours atleast.
Anyway I couldn't get her to eat so I cleaned her up and put her in with mom. Mom loved and licked her and held her, but the baby was too week to hold back. She was too week to let mommy know she needed to nurse. Mom new there was something wrong I think, there was this moment when she looked at me and I just knew that even she was in pain for the baby. Like "What's wrong with her?" Well I figured since she was way to weak to lift her head to mommies pouch and hold on, me doing my best to feed her was her last chance. So I tried and tried, finally when her mouth was open and food was going in, she would not swallow. At that point I knew she had lost the will to live.
I have supplemented many baby animals, and even cared for sickly adult animals of all different kinds of species. But there is one thing I have finally learned from it all: When they lose the will to live, your will for them to live is not enough. If the animal doesn't want to go on, no matter how hard you try, no matter how much you care, or how much you cry, their life is no longer in your hands, it is in their own. I wish she would have understood me if I just told her "Here baby, just swallow this and you'll feel better." I could see that she was in too much pain to do anything but hurt. But I am so thankfull that she has finally been relieved of that pain now. Her little face seemed so much more pleasant in death, then it ever did while she was living with all that pain.

Re: HELP [Re: ] #304196
06/02/07 06:17 PM
06/02/07 06:17 PM

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Oh I forgot to mention. When I got home from wal-mart I fed her, then after that I put her back in the pouch with the parents. I was hoping I would only have to suppliment, or that I could leave her in there instead of an incubator and feed her every 2 hours.
About 10 minutes after I had put her in there I heard fussing. I looked over and she was at the bottum of the cage flopping around like a fish outta water. They must have THROWN her out, and she was hurt thats why she was twitching.

Ok and I'm scared brother might have killed her because, I was supplimenting her for about 5 hrs ( didn't sleep last night, excuse me if there are typos) finally at the end when she wouldn't open her mouth I put her back with mom, and took brother out. Hoping I could keep bro a while and mom would pay attention to sister. Didn't work. So I brought her back to the incubator with brother to snuggle and warm up afew minutes before I tried feeding her. I brought them into the kitchen where I had been doing the feedings and blew some warm air onto the pouch to keep her warm (I am cursed with cold hands). There was a sudden movement in the pouch, like thrashing. I opened it and took her out and she was no longer breathing. I didn't think about brother attacking her when I brought him in to snuggle her. The other times I had seen him attack her, he seemed to be aiming at her neck and head. He knew what he was doing. Is it possible he broke her neck and killed her? I didn't notice a wound on the neck...

Ahg... Never mind, I am just happy she is finally at peace.

Re: HELP [Re: ] #304203
06/02/07 06:36 PM
06/02/07 06:36 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,788
Cleveland, Ohio
sugarglidersuz Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
sugarglidersuz  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,788
Cleveland, Ohio
I am so very sorry that she didn't make it cry I hope the little boy does okay. Keep a very close eye on him to make sure that he doesn't show any further signs of injury.

I'm going to move this over to Real Stories now...

hug2


Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders
Re: HELP [Re: sugarglidersuz] #304245
06/02/07 07:44 PM
06/02/07 07:44 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
ValkyrieMome  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
I'm sorry the little girl didn't make it. I was hoping she would, but with her being scrawny last night, I think she was already too far gone.

I don't think the brother killed her. So, don't blame him. The thrashing sounds like it was a last convulsion, not like the brother hurting her.

I'm sorry for your loss. She had a rough little life, so I'm also glad she's at peace.


Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
Re: HELP [Re: ValkyrieMome] #304253
06/02/07 08:02 PM
06/02/07 08:02 PM

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Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
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A



aww.. what a story. i have to say that the way you have written this is amazing. I mean, it is such a sad sad story, but the fact that she is at peace now, and that maybe it just was her time, seems to almost make sense in some weird way. I am sorry you lost her, but she had a good momma AND surrogate (you) THanks for sharing your story.

Re: HELP [Re: ValkyrieMome] #304255
06/02/07 08:04 PM
06/02/07 08:04 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,338
Lenexa, KS
TracieB Offline
Glider Addict
TracieB  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 4,338
Lenexa, KS
I'm so sorry for your loss. cry I hope the brother does well and gets healthy and strong. hug2


Tracie
1 wonderful husband - Chris
1 goofy Yorkie - Dexter
2 naughty kitties - Chloe & Alek

Waiting at the Rainbow Bridge:
1 spoiled Yorkie, Myles - April 5, 1993-June 5, 2007
1 sweet :wfb: Xavier - August 5, 2007-May 20, 2010
2 sweet :grey: :grey: Nara & Alkina - February, 2006-November, 2011




Re: HELP [Re: TracieB] #304279
06/02/07 08:29 PM
06/02/07 08:29 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 777
Lecanto Florida
1daddyglider1 Offline
Glider Guardian
1daddyglider1  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 777
Lecanto Florida
that's so sad, sorry for your loss.

Re: HELP [Re: 1daddyglider1] #304382
06/02/07 10:28 PM
06/02/07 10:28 PM

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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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Brother is doing good. He has always been doing good. He's a little fatty. Looking at him, and then looking at her was very disturbing, thats how skinny she was. Harliquinn (their mom) was a very very good mommy untill I discovered that she had another baby ip. I should have know when I saw the tiny ball in her pouch, and a bite mark on the girl's nose, to start supplementing her. 3 was just too many. Just imagine how you would feel if you just had 2 babies and were nursing, and were pregnant (and nursing that baby at the same time lol). All this happen after that baby went ip.

Re: HELP [Re: ] #304386
06/02/07 10:33 PM
06/02/07 10:33 PM

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Anonymous
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Anonymous
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A



I wonder if the little girl was disturbing the joey IP, maybe that caused mom to get mad. Perhaps they use the same nipple after they are OOP as they do when they are IP to feed from, and the girl's nipple was closer to the new joey's?

Does anyone know how this works, if after they detach from the nipple they used IP if they continue to use the same one OOP?

Re: HELP [Re: ] #304393
06/02/07 10:39 PM
06/02/07 10:39 PM

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Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
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A



I am sorry you lost your little girl, but also glad to hear that the brother is doing well.

Re: HELP [Re: ] #304465
06/03/07 12:14 AM
06/03/07 12:14 AM

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Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
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I am so sorry for the loss of your little girl, but I am glad to hear that the little guy is doing well. I will pray he continues to do well. hug2

Re: HELP [Re: ] #304488
06/03/07 12:50 AM
06/03/07 12:50 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 21,060
Kansas
L
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
LSardou  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
L

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 21,060
Kansas
hug2 I am sorry for the loss of your little girl. You did everything you could and she left pecefully knowing how much she was loved by you. Prayers are with you and with the remaining little one. heart


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