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About a diet what makes it an approved diet. #456365
01/19/08 04:39 PM
01/19/08 04:39 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,494
Missouri
tammyangel Offline OP
Glider Slave
tammyangel  Offline OP
Glider Slave

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,494
Missouri
I have a really good friend whos been bashed here lately about her diet and the way she feeds her gliders.But I know shes got very healthy gliders and also know from being on glider central alot that shes not the only one who has a diet thats not on the approved list but has worked well with gliders for over 10 years.So heres the thing what makes a diet approved is it a healthy loving glider or one that is given a diet thats made it sick and unhealthy .Is it a diet that offers their needed nutrients and all that they need to survive Or what Im wondering how many feel that if the diet isnt listed on the diet link or in a book or research paper that its not approved or Do you feel like I do that if the gliders are triving and doing well that its a good diet for them .I just want to know what people think.and how they feel about this subject Ive been a member of glider central for awhile now ever since I got my first pair of gliders and ive seen alot of diets being bashed for different reasons and some are the ones on the approved list but they are great diets they may not work for every glider but they do .So if a diets working and gives the things we need or the glider needs in this case doesnt it make it a good diet.


Having Faith and Hope that some day soon.That all the world will come to see that all of gods babies deserve love and affection.

gangel My little three precious angels :rbridge:


http://suggieshack.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=login

Mom to some really spoiled little ones.

:rtmo:
:leu:
:grey:


Re: About a diet what makes it an approved diet. [Re: tammyangel] #456370
01/19/08 04:57 PM
01/19/08 04:57 PM

B
buttercup
Unregistered
buttercup
Unregistered
B



You've made some very good points in your post. I'm pretty new here and when I first decided to get another glider, I found this place and refreshed myself on the care of these animals. I had 2 gliders years ago, in '99 and the ledbeaters diet was like 4 ingredients! I used that plus fruit & veggies. When I came back to glider world...I found that that mix has been modified. Obviously over the years since I had my original 2, they've done more research on these guys' diet.

If your friends' diet plan is healthy and she watches the calcium/phosphorus ratios and more importantly...if she has an experienced glider vet that backs up her glider's diet, then I don't think there's anything wrong with that.

People here are veeeery passionate about the care of these cuties..which is great for new people here I think. But I havent read any of her posts regarding her diet plan so I don't have an opinion on that. If they are healthy gliders, then she shouldn't feel bad. She's doing the best she can for her gliders.

Re: About a diet what makes it an approved diet. [Re: ] #456459
01/19/08 07:36 PM
01/19/08 07:36 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,801
SE Minnesota..
GliderLove Offline
Glider Addict
GliderLove  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,801
SE Minnesota..
Ohh..This can be a touchy subject. diet seems to be #1 on the list for that IMO.

I feed a diet that my gliders have been eating for 10+ years. I get some bashes here and there but that's ok with me. I have healthy gliders, my gliders that I have had raised and born here have always been healthy, other then a few I have taken in here and there over the years.

My vet approves my diet, and see's no reason I should change. And since my diet does not have added supplements people think it's bad. But IF I was having ANY issues with my babies diet would be one of the first things I would reconsider.

I know of gliders that have been on the same diet and lived to be 14, 15, and 17 years old. That's proof enough for me. As well as my own experience with my own gliders.

I feel if it's not broke, why fix it. But like I said this is my .02 cents and every one needs to research before picking ANY diet.



Cindy
Mom to
Jae, Ashton, Briannah, Nevaeh & Addy

& all my fuzzies!
Breeder of Leu's, Mosaics, wfb, and standard grey's.
Owner of www.MySugarAddiction.com

:rtmo: :leu:

Re: About a diet what makes it an approved diet. [Re: GliderLove] #456708
01/20/08 02:19 AM
01/20/08 02:19 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,494
Missouri
tammyangel Offline OP
Glider Slave
tammyangel  Offline OP
Glider Slave

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 2,494
Missouri
Originally Posted By: GliderLove
Ohh..This can be a touchy subject. diet seems to be #1 on the list for that IMO.

I feed a diet that my gliders have been eating for 10+ years. I get some bashes here and there but that's ok with me. I have healthy gliders, my gliders that I have had raised and born here have always been healthy, other then a few I have taken in here and there over the years.

My vet approves my diet, and see's no reason I should change. And since my diet does not have added supplements people think it's bad. But IF I was having ANY issues with my babies diet would be one of the first things I would reconsider.

I know of gliders that have been on the same diet and lived to be 14, 15, and 17 years old. That's proof enough for me. As well as my own experience with my own gliders.

I feel if it's not broke, why fix it. But like I said this is my .02 cents and every one needs to research before picking ANY diet.



The problem is that we have so many thinking that if the gliders arent eating exactly or doing exactly like someone else than its all wrong but im with you I modified the bml alittle and I have used it since I got them and they are all healthy and as you said my vet says its fine and everyone of my babies are beautiful loving babies and Ive never had a sick glider at all but as with any diet if its not researched and published its not good for them apparently.But you put it right if my babies were having problems or sick Id definely change it cause th truth is they are like my own kids and I would never hurt them.


Having Faith and Hope that some day soon.That all the world will come to see that all of gods babies deserve love and affection.

gangel My little three precious angels :rbridge:


http://suggieshack.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=login

Mom to some really spoiled little ones.

:rtmo:
:leu:
:grey:


Re: About a diet what makes it an approved diet. [Re: tammyangel] #456712
01/20/08 02:51 AM
01/20/08 02:51 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,742
in my happy place
S
sugarlope Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
sugarlope  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
S

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,742
in my happy place
I think part of the concern when you are talking about 'accepted' is that to be considered accepted, you have many generations of healthy gliders on a diet (as GliderLove said). Some people stick so strongly to the diets 'as is' because we have seen what can happen when people change/substitute things here and there without really thinking long term. Most of the damage that can be done by an improper diet is not something that you will see immediately, but down the line, sometimes years later.

There were gliders failing to thrive as well on BML, but when their diets were examined more closely, people found that they weren't really feeding 'BML' they were feeding modified forms (changing the supplements, changing the proteins, changing the fruits/veggies). You can't say you are feeding a diet that has had generations of success if you aren't actually feeding that diet as it's written.

There is never going to be a guarentee with gliders (or any animal). Feeding an accepted diet seems to have a better chance of experiencing fewer health problems in a glider just by the long term experiences of others. And it gives some of us something that we can follow without having to check values and ratios, assuming we could even properly understanding them anyway.

There are always going to be gliders that don't thrive on a diet no matter how good it might be or how accepted it is, so there is never going to be *one* diet. There are also (and there absolutely should continue to be) new diets that come out as we learn more about our gliders and their nutritional needs. But just as the current accepted diets, these diets will go through the community testing where many people do not agree with them. And honestly, lets look at the accepted diets; for every accepted diet you can find many people who think that it is not a good one for whatever reason. So in effect, the controversy never ends, accepted or not.

If your vet approves of your diet, great. You are the one who knows your animals best and ultimately you have to do what is best for you.


~Gretchen

If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.
Re: About a diet what makes it an approved diet. [Re: sugarlope] #456740
01/20/08 06:42 AM
01/20/08 06:42 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
USA
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis
SugarBlossoms  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
USA
It's best IMO to tell someone to feed a PROVEN diet listed rather than attempt to explain another way that is suited to glider slaves who've had gliders for years, done the research and have come up with their own version of a diet or an entirely different one by their own trial and error.

It is confusing enough for people who come here that just got a glider and found out they are NOT what the flea market, mill breeder, etc., told them and the glider is having issues of some sort. At this point, I don't feel it's in the glider's best interest to tell the new owner to feed the glider "what I feed" unless it IS a proven diet.

Especially..if the glider is having problems.

People who are passionate about their gliders will eventually learn the glider's likes and dislikes and can adjust accordingly. (at their OWN judgement, not someone else)

I tried a few diets (proven) that either did not work at all or did but only for a short period of time. I went nuts with worry. After spending hundreds of hours and many months doing research, I found the perfect diet for MY gliders. (which is an approved diet) I went further to the person who created the diet and got much more insight on other things I could feed safely that works with my babies.

However, I feel if I had come here looking for a diet and was told by many people to feed this or that instead of telling me to 'please choose a proven diet in our database', I would have been MORE lost! I may have ended up feeding the wrong things not knowing ratios, etc., and my gliders could have paid a high price with their health.

I am open to review ANY diet, proven or not. However, I will only feed my gliders what I know is best by what "I" have learned. I won't bash anyone on their diets but will throw a fit when I see someone thinking it's okay to feed hamburgers, fries and junk food! (for instance) (as we all would!)


Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.
Re: About a diet what makes it an approved diet. [Re: SugarBlossoms] #456741
01/20/08 07:57 AM
01/20/08 07:57 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,212
Garland, TX
Mel2mdl Offline
Glider Addict
Mel2mdl  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,212
Garland, TX
From my understanding, an 'approved' diet is one that has:

1. Been fed to gliders with good results and
2. Been checked and developed with the help of a knowledgeable vet.

diet issues may not show up for years. (Think about how long we eat fast food before the heart attacks!) And, in some cases, may not show up at all - people live to 60, 70 with poor diet. How long might they have lived on a good diet?

To me, the important part is that the diet is developed (or at least) checked with a vet who knows gliders. The "well, I've been feeding it for years" argument doesn't pass the muster. I've been eating poorly for years too, but...


Molly, son & husband:

Chairman Meow
Oscar & Thomas
Sam, Diego, Delilah, Delia :wfb:
Nevada, Noel
Marcel, Dakota, Latte
Dexter, Didi, Almond, Joy and Fitz
:grey:
Karl,Lenny,Jynxie,Chamille, Kee & Mr. Beans in my heart forever.
Teaching teenagers-part joy, part guerilla warfare! :rbridge:
Re: About a diet what makes it an approved diet. [Re: Mel2mdl] #456776
01/20/08 10:53 AM
01/20/08 10:53 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,799
St. Johns, Florida
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Srlb  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,799
St. Johns, Florida
I dont think there is any *Bashing* going on whatsoever IMO.

I think that word is used to freely, and usually when someone doesnt want to hear what others are saying.

I also believe that when a diet is brought forward, by anyone, even if the person only has it listed on their website, no matter how it is brought to attention, it is public knowledge and the glider community should be able to voice their OPINIONS on it.

Granted, YOU feel that YOUR friend is feeding a good diet based on how her gliders look, smell, act and seem to be in good health correct? Where others when they look at the diet that is being fed, may remember a glider or two that had some serious reprocussions for something they see listed in that diet being fed at one time. So they bring it forward and try to explain why such and such food would NOT be *ADIVSED* as a recommended food source.

When talking about diets, you HAVE to have an open mind. NONE of us are experts by ANY MEANS...we ALL learn more and more and more daily. Each and everyone of us.

Its kind of like when your parents tell you not to do something because they dont want YOU to learn from a mistake THEY have ALREADY learned by. Ya know?

If there is something being fed that others know of that can be dangerous or shorten the lifespan of a glider, I think it is wise to have them speak out. Even if it does seem like nobody agrees with your diet plan. If someone is feeding a diet and their glider lived for 8 years and someone else looks at the diet and says well I know that feeding peaches (EXAMPLE ONLY HERE) can shorten your gliders lifespan, wouldnt you then want to stop feeding peaches and maybe your next glider could then live to 10-15 years??

So I think people need to stop thinking every time a diet is discussed, and even disagreed with, that it is being *Bashed* I just think that word is an escape route for some.
(just my own opinions)


Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love´┐Ż Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: About a diet what makes it an approved diet. [Re: Srlb] #456782
01/20/08 11:09 AM
01/20/08 11:09 AM

Z
Zucker
Unregistered
Zucker
Unregistered
Z



I think if it has all the things the glider needs, and it keeps the glider happy and healthy, and a vet has approved it, then it should be fine!

Re: About a diet what makes it an approved diet. [Re: Mel2mdl] #456798
01/20/08 11:40 AM
01/20/08 11:40 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,801
SE Minnesota..
GliderLove Offline
Glider Addict
GliderLove  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,801
SE Minnesota..
Molly I agree with you..diet related illness's seem to take years in most cases inless their is a lack of a crucial part soy protein where the muscles may start to suffer and show early symptoms. And Calcium when people will have poor teeth, and brittle bones ect. Those types of things our body will surely let us know faster that something is wrong, and generally it's diet. But your very right that many people will think their diet is great and working just fine, to have a serious diet related illness show up with in 4-8 yrs. After all diet is the #1 factor of the life span of these animals that are properly kept in captivity.

I agree that people should get the general idea of what a healthy balanced diet consists of and should research all options out there before picking their diet. And thank god there are many diets out there that work since many gliders are picky one a certain diet.

I just DON'T believe that a diet needs to be on a approved list to be considered healthy. It will continue to be a big issue because you just can't make up any old thing and say it ok, they has to be exstensive trial and it is scary because you don't know for sure if your putting your own babies in danger by making your own diet untill if and when it would occur.

I also agree that if I had to be pointed in the right direction and was asking for help, I would rather be pointed towards an approved list then every ones opinion, and then I would go from there..



Cindy
Mom to
Jae, Ashton, Briannah, Nevaeh & Addy

& all my fuzzies!
Breeder of Leu's, Mosaics, wfb, and standard grey's.
Owner of www.MySugarAddiction.com

:rtmo: :leu:

Re: About a diet what makes it an approved diet. [Re: GliderLove] #456800
01/20/08 11:45 AM
01/20/08 11:45 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,801
SE Minnesota..
GliderLove Offline
Glider Addict
GliderLove  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,801
SE Minnesota..
Well said Peggy clap


Cindy
Mom to
Jae, Ashton, Briannah, Nevaeh & Addy

& all my fuzzies!
Breeder of Leu's, Mosaics, wfb, and standard grey's.
Owner of www.MySugarAddiction.com

:rtmo: :leu:

Re: About a diet what makes it an approved diet. [Re: Srlb] #456885
01/20/08 02:38 PM
01/20/08 02:38 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,742
in my happy place
S
sugarlope Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
sugarlope  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
S

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,742
in my happy place
Originally Posted By: Srlb
I dont think there is any *Bashing* going on whatsoever IMO.

I think that word is used to freely, and usually when someone doesnt want to hear what others are saying.

I also believe that when a diet is brought forward, by anyone, even if the person only has it listed on their website, no matter how it is brought to attention, it is public knowledge and the glider community should be able to voice their OPINIONS on it.


clap


~Gretchen

If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.

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