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gene ? #467694
02/02/08 01:22 PM
02/02/08 01:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,884
Wyoming
tbull Offline OP
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I have been told several different things, so I figured I better make sure about this.

I have a WFB 66% leu het male paired with a WFB female.
Now are their kids 33% leu hets? Or lower?

Also I have paired one of their WFB males with my Leu girl, Aries, (I'm trying to breed out the line by using lower %s and non-leu lines)

So, IF Aries and their boy have a leu joey, that will prove dad and son out as 100%s, will that make all the parent's other joeys 50%s?

confused


T~
www.lovegliders.com

** Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons, for
you are crunchy and taste good with catsup **

*Proud to forever be a Boo-Boo and BJ Fan!*

Re: gene ? [Re: tbull] #467711
02/02/08 01:52 PM
02/02/08 01:52 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
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80 acres of paradise in KS
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I do believe so. In order for the son to have the gene and "prove out" then Dad would have to have it as well. So reason says that yes, it would make both father and son 100% hets.

wow...that is a new question...don't think I've seen that one before.


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: gene ? [Re: Dancing] #467718
02/02/08 01:58 PM
02/02/08 01:58 PM

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T I'm trying to think it out and I think I'm too groggy since it's 10am here...brain is not working...hopefully a breeder will be along soon who knows better than me tounge

Re: gene ? [Re: tbull] #467833
02/02/08 05:41 PM
02/02/08 05:41 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 9,173
Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Judie Offline
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1) WF Blonde/Possible 66% Leu Het x WF Blonde female =
offspring produced will be 33% Possible Leu Hets with half the offspring exhibiting the WF Blonde face.

2) 33% Possible Leu Het is unknowingly a 100% Leu Het(from above pairing with half of the babies being gray or WF Blonde) x BEW = 100% Leu Hets with half of the offspring exhibiting WF Blonde if Het is a WF Blonde.

3) If the the above pair (33% Leu Het Proves to be a 100% Leu Het/WF Blonde) x BEW offspring produce a BEW... there is a possibility of producing a Double Het.

This means it is possible for the BEW offspring being able to produce WF Blondes/100% Leu Hets and gray colored 100% Leu Hets.

Since the BEW is lacking coloration... one cannot see the all White Face of the WF Blonde. It is only when this(BEW/Possible WF Blonde) x to a Gray 100% Leu Het's offspring is a WFB/100% Leu Het... will the Parent BEW be considered a Proven Double Het for Leu/WF Blonde.

One will produce Possible 50% Leu Het offspring from either a BEW x Normal Gray or from a 100% Leu Het x to a Normal.

The BEW and the 100% carry one copy each of the Leu Gene responsible for White. With the second parent being a gray Normal now there is the possibility only 50% of these offspring will have or will not be a carrier of the White Gene.

Sure hope I did not confuse everyone because I am about to confuse myself. roflmao

Last edited by Judie; 02/02/08 06:26 PM.
Re: gene ? [Re: Judie] #467880
02/02/08 07:11 PM
02/02/08 07:11 PM
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Posts: 4,645
Ohio
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Since we're on the subject. Can someone tell me what you get when you breed a 100% leu het with a 50% leu het?

Would that be a 66% het?


~Nicole~

Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy! grin
Re: gene ? [Re: Guerita135] #468043
02/02/08 11:18 PM
02/02/08 11:18 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 9,173
Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Judie Offline
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66% Possible Leu Het is produced by "2" 100% Leu Hets.

100% Leu Het x 50% Possible Leu Het's offspring should be writen as a 50% Possible Leu Het.

Once the 50% Possible Leu Het is a "Proven 100% Leu Het"... any previous offspring of the now "Proven" 100% Leu Het that is paired to a BEW = 100% Leu Hets.

If a Proven 100% Leu Het x to another 100% Leu Het... all offspring will be 66% Leu Hets.


Last edited by Judie; 02/03/08 01:15 AM.
Re: gene ? [Re: Judie] #468056
02/02/08 11:40 PM
02/02/08 11:40 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,801
SE Minnesota..
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I knew they would not be 66% hets, but that's a great way to explain it. I'm still trying to fully understand your response to T's question. lol

I find the leu genetics very interesting, and since my babies will coming soon, I should learn as much as possible as well!


Cindy
Mom to
Jae, Ashton, Briannah, Nevaeh & Addy

& all my fuzzies!
Breeder of Leu's, Mosaics, wfb, and standard grey's.
Owner of www.MySugarAddiction.com

:rtmo: :leu:

Re: gene ? [Re: tbull] #468158
02/03/08 01:51 AM
02/03/08 01:51 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 9,173
Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Judie Offline
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1) WFB/66% Possible x to a WF Blonde ... their offspring now are 33% Possible Leu Het.

2) The 33% Possible Leu Het x to a BEW. Offspring produced are now 100% Leu Hets because of the BEW. All of their babies will receive 50% genetic gene copy from the BEW female.

3) If the above pair produce a BEW... the 33% Possible Leu Het has proven to be a 100% Leu Het. Now, 50% of All of their offspring will be BEW and 100% Leu Hets on average.


Tried to make this easier to understand. Sorry, sometimes I seem to make things more complicated than what they really are.



Re: gene ? [Re: Judie] #468159
02/03/08 01:58 AM
02/03/08 01:58 AM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,884
Wyoming
tbull Offline OP
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Thanks. I wanted to get everything straight in my head for any future moms and dads of my little ones.

thanks


T~
www.lovegliders.com

** Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons, for
you are crunchy and taste good with catsup **

*Proud to forever be a Boo-Boo and BJ Fan!*

Re: gene ? [Re: tbull] #468163
02/03/08 02:04 AM
02/03/08 02:04 AM

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so then does that mean my 33% would then be 100% lue het?? now i am confused

Re: gene ? [Re: ] #468179
02/03/08 02:32 AM
02/03/08 02:32 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 9,173
Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Judie Offline
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If you have a 33% Possible Leu Het and x BEW...and offspring produced is a BEW then the 33% is a Proven 100% Leu Het. "All" of the gray babies will be 100% Leu Hets and BEW offspring. Otherwords... one out of two babies will be white on average.

Should the above 33% Leu Het x 100% Leu Het... the 33% Possible Het is now a Proven 100% Leu Het. This pairing will produce one BEW and three Possible 66% Leu Hets on average.

When breeding for Leu... the percentages of the Possible Het only means the possibility of the "Possible Het" being a Proven 100% Leu Het.

Re: gene ? [Re: Judie] #468183
02/03/08 02:38 AM
02/03/08 02:38 AM
Joined: Jun 2013
Posts: 1,173
WI USA
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gliderlover1 Offline
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WI USA
Originally Posted By: Judie

Should the above 33% Leu Het x 100% Leu Het... the 33% Possible Het is now a Proven 100% Leu Het. This pairing will produce one BEW and three Possible 66% Leu Hets on average.

When breeding for Leu... the percentages of the Possible Het only means the possibility of the "Possible Het" being a Proven 100% Leu Het.


Ok, I'm confused.. which isn't new with this stuff.
But why wouldn't the baby be a 100%if there sibling is a bew?

Re: gene ? [Re: Judie] #468184
02/03/08 02:41 AM
02/03/08 02:41 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
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80 acres of paradise in KS
33% Possible Leu het means there is a 33% chance they carry the leu gene.

When putting a possibly leu het(no matter what %) with a leu AND they produce a BEW, then that possible becomes 100% PROVEN. Since BOTH parents must carry the leu gene to produce leu joeys.


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: gene ? [Re: Dancing] #468194
02/03/08 03:12 AM
02/03/08 03:12 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,645
Ohio
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Thanks Judie! I figured it would either be %66 or %50. wink


~Nicole~

Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy! grin
Re: gene ? [Re: Dancing] #468208
02/03/08 03:40 AM
02/03/08 03:40 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 9,173
Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Judie Offline
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Judie  Offline
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Thanks Teresa. smile

Not sure where the confusion lies... but I have typed this so many times... and tried to shorten it to make it more understandable in the process.

Anyway... it is so refreshing to see such interest in Possible Hets. thumb

Re: gene ? [Re: Judie] #468252
02/03/08 01:11 PM
02/03/08 01:11 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
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Judie, you do wonderful and your explinations are great but this really does take some studying to decifer. Took me FOREVER to even semi get a grasp on it.

It's kinda like trying to figure out just what generation you get from a 1st gen wfb and a 4.25 gen wfb... Atleast with the gen thing, you can just say it would be a 2+ gen and call it good.

Quote:
Ok, I'm confused.. which isn't new with this stuff.
But why wouldn't the baby be a 100%if there sibling is a bew?


If the joeys are born from 100% + Leu, and 1 is a BEW and the other is grey, the grey would be a 100% het.

BUT if the joeys are born from two hets, 1 is a BEW and the other is grey, then the grey is only a possible het until it produces a BEW. Then it would be a proven 100% het. With a het to het pairing, there is the chance that the joeys DO NOT carry the white gene at all. So, until they produce BEW, they are only possible hets.


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: gene ? [Re: Dancing] #472007
02/07/08 03:35 PM
02/07/08 03:35 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 1,701
Elkhorn, WI
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I know this might be SLIGHTLY off topic but...what does it mean when we say we are "breeding out" the line?

If I pair my WFB/poss buttercream lion to my WF/poss 50% Lue Het, am I helping breed out the line or does it not really matter in this case...and will their babies then be WF/poss 25% leu het until proven to be otherwise?

and if I take one of the siblings and pair it with a BEW will this be too close to inbreeding again because the leu lines are so close or have I lengthened the generations enough between them ???

I had to jump in and ask - sorry frown


Celeste
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Re: gene ? [Re: Judie] #472035
02/07/08 04:10 PM
02/07/08 04:10 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,013
Florida
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Originally Posted By: Judie
1) WF Blonde/Possible 66% Leu Het x WF Blonde female =
offspring produced will be 33% Possible Leu Hets with half the offspring exhibiting the WF Blonde face.

2) 33% Possible Leu Het is unknowingly a 100% Leu Het(from above pairing with half of the babies being gray or WF Blonde) x BEW = 100% Leu Hets with half of the offspring exhibiting WF Blonde if Het is a WF Blonde.

3) If the the above pair (33% Leu Het Proves to be a 100% Leu Het/WF Blonde) x BEW offspring produce a BEW... there is a possibility of producing a Double Het.

This means it is possible for the BEW offspring being able to produce WF Blondes/100% Leu Hets and gray colored 100% Leu Hets.

Since the BEW is lacking coloration... one cannot see the all White Face of the WF Blonde. It is only when this(BEW/Possible WF Blonde) x to a Gray 100% Leu Het's offspring is a WFB/100% Leu Het... will the Parent BEW be considered a Proven Double Het for Leu/WF Blonde.

One will produce Possible 50% Leu Het offspring from either a BEW x Normal Gray or from a 100% Leu Het x to a Normal.

The BEW and the 100% carry one copy each of the Leu Gene responsible for White. With the second parent being a gray Normal now there is the possibility only 50% of these offspring will have or will not be a carrier of the White Gene.

Sure hope I did not confuse everyone because I am about to confuse myself. roflmao


Wowwww Judie!!!! Ok, let me get some cookies, a coke. This will take some studying!!!! grin


Paula Donofrio-Williams
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Re: gene ? [Re: Jaxsuggies] #472371
02/07/08 10:28 PM
02/07/08 10:28 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 9,173
Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Judie Offline
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Judie  Offline
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Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Quote:
The BEW and the 100% carry one copy each of the Leu Gene responsible for White. With the second parent being a gray Normal now there is the possibility only 50% of these offspring will have or will not be a carrier of the White Gene.


Error Correction: The BEW and the 100% carry one copy each of the Leu Gene responsible for White. All offspring from the BEW with a Normal gray, or breeding to any Possible Leu Hets will result in 100% Leu Hets because of the BEW.

To prove the Possible Het... the lesser is be bred to another Proven 100% Leu Het or a BEW. This then should result with a BEW offspring within a year if the Possible Lesser Het is a 100% gene carrier for white if paired to a BEW.

When the Possible 50% Leu Het is pared to a 100% Leu Het it may take up to two years to prove the Lesser Het out and if longer... the Lesser het then may be considered only a Normal Gray.

Remember these numbers are only averages... time may be sooner, later or never resulting with a BEW offpring with a Possible Het. However, with the Percentages thrown in of Possibility of being a 100% Leu Het... your chances of producing white are now increased.

Pairings of 2 Possible Leu Hets... it is great when a pair like this produce a BEW becasuse this type of pairing really does out breed the line. However... should no BEW result within three years.... it is diffecult then to figure out if it is only one glider without the Leu Gene or is it Both of the gliders with no BEW gene? Also, keep in mind that often Females have less time for breeding as they become older.

So, less time is spent proving out the Possible 50% Leu Het female if bred to a BEW. 2nd choice for repairing would be to put the lesser het female with a 100% Leu Het.

Last edited by Judie; 02/07/08 11:39 PM.

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