Ok, I'm very confused on this topic. Now over on www.sugarglider.com they firmly stand by their belief that breeding for color variations is bad for gliders health as many of these gliders receive their color through inbreeding. But here I have seen no such topics... Can someone clear this up for me because at the moment I have no idea where I stand on this issue...?

Here is a link to a huge debate on the link between inbreeding and color variations: http://www.sugarglider.com/glidergossip/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8486&whichpage=1

THANKS!

As a whole, breeding for certain colors is not bad for the gliders' health, as long as it is done responsibly. It is true, though, that many gliders "had" to be inbred in order to get a certain color (which is why it is so important to research and really know the lineage of any glider you are planning on breeding).

Creminos, albinos, leus, and mosaics all have a lot of inbreeding in the lines if I'm not mistaken.

I am strongly against any inbreeding with sugar gliders - it is not done for the health of gliders, it is ONLY done for cosmetic purposes.

I agree 100% Hollis !

I also have heard that some subtle variations such as white face and white tip occur naturaly in the wild... Is this true?

White tips occur regularly in the wild in Australia. I am not sure of WF, but it had to come from somewhere, so I am sure it can occur in the wild just as the colors leucistic and albino can.

I'm sorry, But I don't beleive Leus occur naturaly in the wild. I believe that albinos were geneticaly altered to not have the ruby eyes. I feel this way because they just seem to out there to be natural but I know albinos occur naturaly in almost every animal in the world.

Leucistic is a color variation. Albino is a genetic mutation. Both of these can occure in the wild but generally they do not survive because of preditors. A white glider can not blend in to the trees well and stand out to prey animals. They become easy targets.

Yes, most leus and albinos are inbred. This is because there are so few in captivity and those that want to make the big bucks are willing to risk genetic deformities to have what is so rare. Which is also why they are so expensive to buy.

With the leus, responsible breeders are and have been working very hard to "breed out the lines" by pairing up hets with greys to introduce new genetic material to the blood lines. Now, today, is is possible to get leus that are VERY distantly related but sadly, many newbies only see $$$ and are not concerned with making sure the gliders ARE very distantly related. So, yes, the close inbreeding continues.

Are lions and cinnimons commonly inbread? And I am still wondering why there aren't more of these discussions on this site. Also, is it possible to find white faces that are naturaly occuring or distantly related?

Leucisism is in MANY animals naturally not just sugar gliders.

Oh! I didn't know that...

You mean discussions like these?

http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/493701#Post493701
http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/493898#Post493898
http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/485917#Post485917
http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/...true#Post276487
http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/...true#Post267410
http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/491981#Post491981
http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/489558#Post489558
http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/488910#Post488910
http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/...true#Post259719
http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/...true#Post309817
http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/...true#Post349500
http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/361692/fpart/1
http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/...true#Post390138
http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/...true#Post422198
http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/...true#Post433285
http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/...true#Post459670
http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/265009/fpart/1
http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/486450#Post486450
http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/483421#Post483421

Wow! Now why couldn't I find them?!? Thanks!

I used the search feature. There are so many posts here that things get lost rather quickly.

Here are some links about leucism.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leucism
http://www.birds.cornell.edu/ivory/pastsearches/2005_2006/stories_reports_0506/leucism
http://carolinehu.blogspot.com/2007/08/piebaldism-leucism.html

Cool! Still, its sad that people breed just for money and cosmetics.

Yes it is, but breeding for color can be done in a way that doesn't harm the animal or their offspring. MANY of our breeders are breeding unrelated gliders of color and this doesn't hurt the gliders at all. Just because they are a color variation doesn't mean they have a weakened immune system or health problems. Look at the different races of humans...all can be just as healthy as another.

Can you please tell me some breeders on this site who breed WF and Buttercreme babies safely?

I'm pretty sure I can post this link here:
http://video.nationalgeographic.com/vide...lider-kids.html

The first glider in this video is a wild White Tip. Edit: there is also a wild White Face in there.

Hey your right! Preety cool!

I have a WF and a Buttercream breeding together. They are completely unrelated ... but I'm not sure I'm selling any joeys. Their first, and so far only, joey was just OOP on Sunday.

I'm really just replying to your post in order to brag - I'm shameless that way!
A bad picture of my Buttercream and WF

Their adorable joey. Not WF, but maybe Buttercream?

AWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW! Cute! Congrats!

Julie from GlidebyGliders has Lions and WF. I got a WF from her and she is healthy and very friendly. I also gave a WF from Lenya and He is so cute and sweet. Both breeders, I would get another glider from.

Great!!! I will definately have these people in mind when I finaly adopt!

Where do you live? There may be a good breeder close?

Awesome video Alden, I sent it to my little cousin who thinks my 'flying hamsters' are the coolest

LOL cute!

My mother calls them "Rat-Bats"!

You asked for a good breeder of WF...here is one example:
http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/491199/gonew/1#UNREAD

What about this question

Yes, can someone clear this up?

Typically, lions and cinnamons are not inbred because their lines are a little more widespread. One great breeder of lions is SugarBaby22 on this site, but I believe she may be neutering her male.

Yes, it is possible to find naturally occuring WF, but most breeder's gliders are not wild caught, but may be descendants from wild caught. Also, the majority of breeders are breeding WF that are distantly related or completely unrelated. Ask the breeder to see the glider's lineage.