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rejecting babies again!! Help #607063
08/08/08 12:22 AM
08/08/08 12:22 AM

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bingos_mom
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Dobber's babies are oop tonight, and I don't think they were due for another 2 or 3 weeks. they are still a little pink with dark stripes. I have the stuff to make the supplement with, but no syringes or anything!!! They were crying,and mom and dad both ignored them for a while. then mom got in the pouch with them, but she crabbed and hissed the whole time they were trying to nurse. they are bml, so it shouldn't be a milk issue. She did this last time!!!

Right now I have them wrapped in fleece and stuck between my boobs. They seem to have warmed up and aren't crying for parents. What now!!!!


I just took them back to the cage, and they crawled all over dad, trying to nurse. He went back into the pouch with them, but momma never did. I wonder if they'll make it through the night until I can get to the vet to get some syringes? I pack them into my bra tomorrow and keep them with me at work I think.

Last edited by bingos_mom; 08/08/08 12:28 AM.
Re: rejecting babies again!! Help [Re: ] #607068
08/08/08 12:28 AM
08/08/08 12:28 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 21,060
Kansas
L
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
LSardou  Offline
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L

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 21,060
Kansas
Can you try and get them back into the pouch? If not, do you have a small medicine dropper that you can start supplementing them with?

Re: rejecting babies again!! Help [Re: LSardou] #607070
08/08/08 12:29 AM
08/08/08 12:29 AM

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bingos_mom
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bingos_mom
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I don't have anything! I can't believe I'm so unprepared! I might have a medicine dropper out of baby tylenol or something. I'll go check

Re: rejecting babies again!! Help [Re: LSardou] #607073
08/08/08 12:31 AM
08/08/08 12:31 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 21,060
Kansas
L
LSardou Offline
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LSardou  Offline
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L

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Posts: 21,060
Kansas
How to Feed the Joey
To prevent aspiration into the lungs, it is important to follow these steps:
wrap the joey in a warm cloth, like a burrito (just must be warm or it will not eat)
hold the joey so the head is towards the ceiling and the tail is towards the floor (parallel with the wall)
only apply formula to the tip of the joey's lips, never open the mouth to place formula inside the mouth
place one drop of formula on the joey's lips at a time, wait for the joey to lap* it up, then place another drop on the lips
* Most rejected joeys do not know how to lap to get their food, they are used to suckling. You may need to put a drop of formula on the joey's lips, then gently rub the tip of the joey's nose with your fingertip until the joey licks. You may need to repeat this process a few times until the joey gets the idea.

Re: rejecting babies again!! Help [Re: LSardou] #607075
08/08/08 12:32 AM
08/08/08 12:32 AM

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bingos_mom
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bingos_mom
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I have a large medicine dropper, would that work if I'm really careful?

Re: rejecting babies again!! Help [Re: ] #607076
08/08/08 12:33 AM
08/08/08 12:33 AM

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bingos_mom
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bingos_mom
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If I can feed them tonight, would they be okay with mom and dad until tomorrow when I can make an incubatory?

Re: rejecting babies again!! Help [Re: ] #607079
08/08/08 12:34 AM
08/08/08 12:34 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 21,060
Kansas
L
LSardou Offline
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LSardou  Offline
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L

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 21,060
Kansas
That should be ok. Just follow the feeding instructions that I posted a few minutes ago.

Re: rejecting babies again!! Help [Re: ] #607081
08/08/08 12:35 AM
08/08/08 12:35 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 21,060
Kansas
L
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
LSardou  Offline
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L

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 21,060
Kansas
Originally Posted By: bingos_mom
If I can feed them tonight, would they be okay with mom and dad until tomorrow when I can make an incubatory?

NO, if they are not going to have anything to do with them tonight, chances are they will be left alone tomorrow. It's just way to risky.

Re: rejecting babies again!! Help [Re: LSardou] #607090
08/08/08 12:48 AM
08/08/08 12:48 AM

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bingos_mom
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bingos_mom
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i dont know how i'll keep them warm unless i sleep with them in a zipper pouch. afraid i would squash though. one just ate a few drops of food. is that good?

Re: rejecting babies again!! Help [Re: ] #607094
08/08/08 12:51 AM
08/08/08 12:51 AM

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bingos_mom
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bingos_mom
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The other one won't eat, seems like it just wants to sleep. I tried the tent test and he didn't seem dehydrated. Should I just leave him be for now?

Re: rejecting babies again!! Help [Re: ] #607095
08/08/08 12:51 AM
08/08/08 12:51 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 21,060
Kansas
L
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
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L

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 21,060
Kansas
Here is a link to SugarGliderSuz web site on Hand Raising a Joey....
Hand Raising a Joey

Quick Help Guide for Rejected Joeys
If you see any symptoms of Joey Rejection, you need to immediately pull the joey from its parents and start Hand Raising. For complete, specific information, please go to my page about Hand Raising A Joey; however, for quick, how-to-start information, this page will get you going...
Signs of rejection include, but are not limited to:
Joey found left alone in nest by both parents for more than 10-15 minutes at a time
Joey crying a lot with neither parent responding to the joey's cries
Joey trying to crawl out of the nesting area (before 4-5 weeks out of pouch)
Joey found alone and cold outside of the nesting area
Joey found alone in a different nesting area from where parents are located
Joey found on cage bottom
Joey found dehydrated
Joey found with bite and/or scratch marks anywhere on body or face
Mother repeatedly pushing the joey away when attempting to nurse
Joey being repeatedly hissed and/or crabbed at by the mother when trying to nurse
Checking for Dehydration
The first thing you need to do is to find out if the joey is dehydrated at all. To check for dehydration, simply gently pull up the skin above the shoulder blades. If the skin stays "tented" up for longer than a few seconds, then the joey is dehydrated. The longer it stays tented, the more severe the dehydration. If severely dehydrated, immediately bring the joey to a vet for immediate sub-q (sub-cutaneous) injection. If only slightly dehydrated immediately start giving the joey Pedialyte (apple or unflavored) every hour for next 6 hours or until rehydrated. If not rehydrated within that time, then vet care will be needed.
How to Feed the Joey
To prevent aspiration into the lungs, it is important to follow these steps:
wrap the joey in a warm cloth, like a burrito (just must be warm or it will not eat)
hold the joey so the head is towards the ceiling and the tail is towards the floor (parallel with the wall)
only apply formula to the tip of the joey's lips, never open the mouth to place formula inside the mouth
place one drop of formula on the joey's lips at a time, wait for the joey to lap* it up, then place another drop on the lips
* Most rejected joeys do not know how to lap to get their food, they are used to suckling. You may need to put a drop of formula on the joey's lips, then gently rub the tip of the joey's nose with your fingertip until the joey licks. You may need to repeat this process a few times until the joey gets the idea.
What Do You Need for Feeding the Joey?
If the joey is under two weeks out of pouch (oop), you will need to make my Joey Formula. You will need the following ingredients:
Brisky's Booster Milk -OR- Wombaroo Possum Milk Replacer -OR- Puppy* Formula (preferably Esbilac, if available)
Gliderade -OR- Lorikeet Nectar (you can skip this ingredient if you don't have it available)
Pedialyte or Liquilyte (apple or unflavored)
Baby Cereal (any variety)
Mix these ingredients together according to my Joey Formula Recipe.
To administer the formula, you will need:
o A needleless syringe (0.5 or 1.0 cc's)
o PLUS a #5FR Feeding Catheter (if available)
o -OR- A small Pet-Ag Kitten feeding bottle with nipple
* Do NOT use Kitten Formula, it is too high in lactose and young joeys are lactose intolerant. Bloating and other issues can be caused by high-lactose products.
***************
If the joey is older than two weeks oop, you can use Joey BML (no wheat germ) to feed it. I recommend gradually weaning them onto it over the course of 4 days to avoid bloating:
Day 1: 25% Baby BML, 75% Pedialyte
Day 2: 50% Baby BML, 50% Pedialyte
Day 3: 75% Baby BML, 25% Pedialyte
Day 4: 100% Baby BML



Feeding Reference Guide
Age of Joey: Amount to Feed: Frequency:
Newly oop ~ 2 weeks oop 0.3 - 0.5 cc's Every 1 - 2 hours
2 weeks oop ~ 4 weeks oop 0.5 - 1.0 cc's Every 2 - 3 hours
4 weeks oop ~ 6 weeks oop 1.0 - 2.0 cc's Every 3 - 4 hours
6 weeks oop ~ 8 weeks oop 2.0 - 4.0 cc's **
**note that at this age, the joey should be able to start eating from a bowl and should already be started on the weaning process. For more information about this, please go to This Information.
Stimulating the Joey
You may need to stimulate joey to go potty:
Gently rub the joey's cloaca with a moist q-tip for 10-15 seconds.
Joey's urine will be clear so may not be noticeable unless it urinates a LOT.
Joey may not defecate for the first 24 hours after being switched to formula - this is normal and not of concern. However, much longer than that may indicate a blockage, in which case veterinary care would be needed.
Feces will be bright orange/yellow in color and will be soft and unformed. This is normal; however, if watery at all, then immediate vet care is needed.

Re: rejecting babies again!! Help [Re: LSardou] #607098
08/08/08 12:55 AM
08/08/08 12:55 AM

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bingos_mom
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bingos_mom
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B



I"ll make the incubator tomorrow. What can I do in the meantime?

Re: rejecting babies again!! Help [Re: LSardou] #607099
08/08/08 12:56 AM
08/08/08 12:56 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 21,060
Kansas
L
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
LSardou  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
L

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 21,060
Kansas
Here are instructions on how to make an incubator. Again, if mom or dad do not accept the joeys, they can not be left unattended. It's vital that they are kept warm and are given supplement feeding as the schedule states.
How to make an Incubator


Re: rejecting babies again!! Help [Re: LSardou] #607101
08/08/08 12:57 AM
08/08/08 12:57 AM

P
purplekat61
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purplekat61
Unregistered
P



Also, if you don't have the supplies get to a 24 hour store and get them. The incubator is very simple to make using Suz's directions. As far as feeding you need to do it frequently. If a few drops at a time is all you can get them to eat then that's better than nothing but keep tryng. Do NOT trust the parents to keep them few or warm. It sounds like it is all up to you this time. Our prayers are with you. There is ALOT of info on Suz's site but please ask questions if you need too....we're here!

Re: rejecting babies again!! Help [Re: ] #607103
08/08/08 12:58 AM
08/08/08 12:58 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 21,060
Kansas
L
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
LSardou  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
L

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 21,060
Kansas
Originally Posted By: bingos_mom
The other one won't eat, seems like it just wants to sleep. I tried the tent test and he didn't seem dehydrated. Should I just leave him be for now?


No, he still needs to eat, otherwise he can dehydrate quickly. Try and stimulate him to get him alert. Is he breathing ok?

Re: rejecting babies again!! Help [Re: ] #607106
08/08/08 01:01 AM
08/08/08 01:01 AM

P
purplekat61
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purplekat61
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Originally Posted By: bingos_mom
I"ll make the incubator tomorrow. What can I do in the meantime?


What I did for one night only was keep them in a pouch with an extra piece of fleece wrapped around it and kept them cupped in my hands. Yes, even was able to nap a bit but not much due to many feedings through out the night. It is not the best solution...and the incubator is so easy. you may even have the supplies at home already.

Re: rejecting babies again!! Help [Re: ] #607107
08/08/08 01:01 AM
08/08/08 01:01 AM

B
bingos_mom
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bingos_mom
Unregistered
B



does that use like a glass aquarium?

Re: rejecting babies again!! Help [Re: ] #607109
08/08/08 01:05 AM
08/08/08 01:05 AM

B
bingos_mom
Unregistered
bingos_mom
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B



they are breathing fine. I am off to walmart to see what I can find. mom and dad are now curled up in the pouch, with out the babies. I don't know why they are doing this, especially this second time around.

Re: rejecting babies again!! Help [Re: ] #607110
08/08/08 01:05 AM
08/08/08 01:05 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 21,060
Kansas
L
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
LSardou  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
L

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 21,060
Kansas
How to Make the Incubator

There are two types of incubators that you can easily make for your joey, a simple tank-style incubator or a simple bucket-style incubator. Whichever style you choose, you should assemble it in advance of needing it so that you can start to use it immediately when necessary. Either style works quite well. It is simply a matter of personal preference as to which style you choose.

1) For the tank-style incubator, attach the small Heat Wave Reptile Heat Pad (follow instructions included in its package) to the bottom, underside (outside) of the aquarium at one end. This will keep the incubator between 85 & 90 degrees Fahrenheit.

For the bucket-style incubator, drill about 2 dozen holes into the lid of the Rubbermaid storage container -or- use a 6"x8" Critter Keeper with lid. Then, lay the two large, thick bath towels flat together, place the human heating pad in the center of them, then fold both ends of the towel in over top of the heating pad so that there are two layers of towel underneath the heating pad and four layers on top of it. Place the Rubbermaid container on top of the layered toweling.

2) Place the thermometer on the inside, bottom of the aquarium at the end with the heat pad or at the inside, bottom center of the bucket-stype incubator. This will enable you to monitor the temperature of the bottom of the incubator to ensure that it does not get over 95 degrees Fahrenheit.

3) Using the misting spray bottle, spray one washcloth with water, then lay it on the bottom of the tank at the end where the heating pad is located. This will keep the incubator humid so your joey does not get dry, flaky skin. The washcloth will need to be freshly sprayed with water every 6-8 hours.

4) Lay two or three large fleece blankets along the bottom of the tank over the top of the damp washcloth. This will insulate your joey from getting burned by the heater.

5) Place the small stuffed animal in one corner of the incubator for snuggly warmth and companionship for your joey.

6) Place a small fleece blanket into each of remaining three corners of incubator.

When the incubator is needed:

1) Plug in the heating pad. For the bucket-style incubator, set the heating pad on "low" (note that if the heating pad has an "automatic shut-off" feature, you will need to turn it back on every 2 hours while the joey is inside the incubator).

2) Place the joey inside the incubator, wrapped in a small fleece blanket or in a joey pouch, towards the center of the tank.

3) Cover the tank with the lid.

4) You may need to lay a handtowel over the top of the lid to prevent drafts from getting into the incubator.

Re: rejecting babies again!! Help [Re: LSardou] #607112
08/08/08 01:07 AM
08/08/08 01:07 AM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,725
Upstate NY
glidergrl1513 Offline
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Posts: 5,725
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It looks like Linda and Kat have got you covered. hug2

Since this is the second time this has happened, you need to get Bingo neutered. They do not want to be parents and it would be cruel to continue to allow this. Obviously this is something to worry about once you get the joey situation under control, but you need to remember this.

Re: rejecting babies again!! Help [Re: glidergrl1513] #607115
08/08/08 01:10 AM
08/08/08 01:10 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 21,060
Kansas
L
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
LSardou  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
L

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 21,060
Kansas
Sending you lots of hugs and prayers. hug2

Moving this to Breeding & Babies.

Re: rejecting babies again!! Help [Re: glidergrl1513] #607116
08/08/08 01:12 AM
08/08/08 01:12 AM

P
purplekat61
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purplekat61
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P



*TAG* Linda! You're it!

Bingo's Mom....you can get a rubbermaid shoe box to use....it works great and is inexpensive, A regular heating pad will work just fine.....just use it following Suz's directions. Not to be used IN the incubator but on the outside and under several layers of towels. Don't want to over heat the joey's.


Re: rejecting babies again!! Help [Re: ] #607126
08/08/08 01:25 AM
08/08/08 01:25 AM

S
SuggieLuver4941
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SuggieLuver4941
Unregistered
S



Wow. You all are helping her out so amazingly well. Sending prayers yours and your babies way! hug2

Re: rejecting babies again!! Help [Re: ] #607138
08/08/08 01:49 AM
08/08/08 01:49 AM

B
bingos_mom
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bingos_mom
Unregistered
B



thanks guys! I had already decided after the first litter that if it happened again he would be fixed. making the appt tomorrow. i have the incubator set up, time to get some sleep!

Re: rejecting babies again!! Help [Re: ] #607141
08/08/08 01:56 AM
08/08/08 01:56 AM

B
bingos_mom
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bingos_mom
Unregistered
B



making sure I did this right. All I could find at our Walmart was one of the plastic critter keepers like you'd bring a hermit crab home in, about 6*9. The heating pad I have is huge, I set the critterkeep on it and will wrap around the sides. I put 2 hand towels in the keeper, one of them misted with water, then I put the babies in a small pouch in the middle of it all and covered the top with another towell. Think this will be okay?

Re: rejecting babies again!! Help [Re: ] #607146
08/08/08 02:09 AM
08/08/08 02:09 AM

P
purplekat61
Unregistered
purplekat61
Unregistered
P



That will work for tonight. It's best to use fleece in the inside in place of the towels. Basically, heating pad with about 4 layers of towel, incubator on top of towels, thermometer on bottom of incubator, fleece dampened, dry fleece for joeys to snuggle in and place a small safe animal for them to cuddle with for the extra lovin feelin'. Also, it s best to make sure the fleece stays damp. Oh and don't forget to make several air holes on the top of the incubator.

Re: rejecting babies again!! Help [Re: ] #607152
08/08/08 02:20 AM
08/08/08 02:20 AM

B
bingos_mom
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bingos_mom
Unregistered
B



this one has vents along the top. I'll have to cut fleece in the mornining for them. Now they're fed, and I have to get in bed and figure how I'm going to care for them tomorrow. Would they be okay wrapped in fleece and tucked in my bra? I work in an office all day, A/C controlled. Will update in the morning!

Re: rejecting babies again!! Help [Re: ] #607154
08/08/08 02:26 AM
08/08/08 02:26 AM
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 184
Phoenix, AZ
desertmommy Offline
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Posts: 184
Phoenix, AZ
Don't forget, these wee ones will need to be fed every 1-2 hours around the clock.

Wishing you the best!

Last edited by desertmommy; 08/08/08 02:28 AM. Reason: Changed wording

Have you been groomed today?
Re: rejecting babies again!! Help [Re: ] #607160
08/08/08 02:46 AM
08/08/08 02:46 AM

P
purplekat61
Unregistered
purplekat61
Unregistered
P



It would be best to take the incubator to work with you and keep it close by if possible. At least somewhere safe where you are able to check on them ever hour at minimum for feedings.

Re: rejecting babies again!! Help [Re: ] #607170
08/08/08 04:01 AM
08/08/08 04:01 AM

R
Rachel
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Rachel
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R



If this is the second time this pair has rejected their joeys you shouldn't allow them to breed again. It isn't fair to the babies or them. They don't want to be parents.

Please get dad fixed or separate the pair.

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