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Raising aflatoxin free-crickets? "How To" anyone? #608566
08/10/08 04:47 AM
08/10/08 04:47 AM

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caelainn
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Thought I saw a very detailed "instructional" on raising crickets for gliders (specifically avoiding aflatoxin as best on could by not using corn products.) Does anyone know where I might find the right thread? I believe I also read that the "next" generation (crickets born to corn eating crickets)would be safe as long as they weren't fed corn products. Hoping to hear soon.

Re: Raising aflatoxin free-crickets? "How To" anyone? [Re: ] #608624
08/10/08 11:21 AM
08/10/08 11:21 AM
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This would be interesting to know. In crickets, the aflatoxins bind to the DNA and pass it down to the next generations. Aflatoxins cannot be killed by heat or freezing.

Aflatoxins aren't just in corn, they can be found in all grains that have gotten mold.


Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.
Re: Raising aflatoxin free-crickets? "How To" anyone? [Re: SugarBlossoms] #608627
08/10/08 11:27 AM
08/10/08 11:27 AM

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As long as your bedding is not moldy, then you are not at risk of the crickets ingesting aflatoxins.

As for the DNA bit, I have heard many people repeat that, but it makes no sense to me the mechanism for how that works dunno I am no aflatoxin expert but I am a science teacher so take that for what you will.

There is a common misconception on the board that by not feeding crickets your glider is safe from aflatoxins, which is false. Really any moldy bedding could carry aflatoxin, which could then be bioaccumulated in not only crickets, but also things like mealworms as well.

Sorry I don't know where the thread is! But I would be interested in seeing it too when you find it.

Re: Raising aflatoxin free-crickets? "How To" anyone? [Re: SugarBlossoms] #608658
08/10/08 12:28 PM
08/10/08 12:28 PM
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Originally Posted By: SugarBlossoms
In crickets, the aflatoxins bind to the DNA and pass it down to the next generations.


This is NOT true. Aflatoxin is a mycotoxin, it has no DNA to be replicated and passed down to following generations. It binds to DNA as a mechanism of the toxin, this is true in mealworms as well, not just crickets.

If you google information on breeding crickets, you will come up with a wealth of info. The idea to keep in mind is that anywhere it says to use corn/chicken mash, DON'T. By using oat or wheat based bedding, you will have the same risk of Aflatoxin in your crickets as those of us raising mealworms. To avoid Aflatoxin even more, stay away from all grains and feed them only fresh fruits/vegetables (changing frequently). Remember with crickets, because of the moisture, they can also harbor parasites/bacteria so you need to keep their containers clean. I can help look up some info if you like. It has been ages since I helped breed crickets (they smell horrible!) roflmao but I will help any way I can!


~Gretchen

If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.
Re: Raising aflatoxin free-crickets? "How To" anyone? [Re: sugarlope] #608691
08/10/08 01:25 PM
08/10/08 01:25 PM
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Gretchen, maybe I misunderstood something about the DNA part? It is all over the internet about the aflatoxins binding to the DNA in crickets?


from a thread about this in May, you wrote:

Quote:
Because Aflatoxin binds to DNA, it will always be with the ones who were exposed. If you wanted to breed crickets, then the new generations would not have it in their system unless it was reintroduced. But breeding crickets is pretty gross.


Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.
Re: Raising aflatoxin free-crickets? "How To" anyone? [Re: SugarBlossoms] #608850
08/10/08 05:54 PM
08/10/08 05:54 PM
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I apologize, you are absolutely right I was not clear in my response...Aflatoxin DOES bind to DNA, it DOES NOT pass on to the following generations of crickets (as explained above), it must be reintroduced in order for them to carry it. thumb

Sorry for any confusion. smile

Last edited by sugarlope; 08/10/08 05:56 PM. Reason: can't type

~Gretchen

If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.
Re: Raising aflatoxin free-crickets? "How To" anyone? [Re: sugarlope] #608867
08/10/08 06:22 PM
08/10/08 06:22 PM
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No problem at all Gretchen! smile I also was confusing in mine when I said it binds to the DNA and passes down. That is what I assumed, I shouldn't have done that. Thank you for clearing that up, I feel much better! smile


Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.
Re: Raising aflatoxin free-crickets? "How To" anyone? [Re: sugarlope] #608869
08/10/08 06:26 PM
08/10/08 06:26 PM
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I found a lot of info on Aflotoxin and the mold that causes aflotoxin (Aspergillus Mold). You can see what all I said back in this thread:
http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/588572/Re_Mold_in_Mealies#Post588572


~GWEN~
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Tortoise: Vork
Cats: Scooby, Swiper, Zero, Dinah & Sykes
Suggies: Meeko, Willow & Nemo; Rei, Rafiki & Rajah; Opal, Lily & Link; Tael, Tatl & Navi; Kristoff Krabbs & Crabby Patty
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www.cinnamonstix-n-sugar.com
Re: Raising aflatoxin free-crickets? "How To" anyone? [Re: cinnamonstix] #613740
08/16/08 06:02 PM
08/16/08 06:02 PM

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Thanks to everyone trying to help. I am still trying to find the best feed (that's also affordable) for the crickets. I may end up with veggies and fruit though this goes bad so quickly. At present they are not in any bedding (just egg crates). I'm following a set up suggestion I found online. I think not having the bedding also greatly reduces the smell and makes it much easier to clean. You use a separate container for them to lay egss in and remove it to hatch them. Will post all my findings, but with the warning that there is no aflatoxin-free cricket assurance. Any other suggestions would be greatly appreciated at this time

Re: Raising aflatoxin free-crickets? "How To" anyone? [Re: ] #613789
08/16/08 06:57 PM
08/16/08 06:57 PM
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Will you be breeding and having offsrping tested for aflotoxins? What about something like apples or potatos? I have saw some people use their gliders left overs and feed it to mealies. As long as you are not giving corn, dairy, nuts, coconut or grain leftovers aflotoxin should not be a concern. Keep any foods off bedding and change daily.


~GWEN~
Crazy Hubby Dru
Tortoise: Vork
Cats: Scooby, Swiper, Zero, Dinah & Sykes
Suggies: Meeko, Willow & Nemo; Rei, Rafiki & Rajah; Opal, Lily & Link; Tael, Tatl & Navi; Kristoff Krabbs & Crabby Patty
:rbridge: Fern, Cjarsa, Syfka, Icarus, Ivy, Howie & Gracie

www.cinnamonstix-n-sugar.com
Re: Raising aflatoxin free-crickets? "How To" anyone? [Re: cinnamonstix] #613811
08/16/08 07:28 PM
08/16/08 07:28 PM
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I would not feed glider left overs, this is where some problems can start with feeders. Think about it another way, would you give your gliders day old food? Then why would you give your gliders something that you fed day old food to?

Another concern with feeding glider left-overs is that they masticate their food and spit it out, this would be introducing less nutritious food to the feeders while also introducing bacteria, which can breed in the crickets and be returned to the gliders causing problems.

Feed foods that do not mold or turn easily and just like with mealworms, change fresh food out daily (whenever you feed them).


~Gretchen

If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.
Aflatoxin free Cricket breeding experiment 101: i [Re: cinnamonstix] #614051
08/17/08 12:12 AM
08/17/08 12:12 AM

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Well after buying a corn-free cat food that I thought would work (wasn't a dry food as I'd expected), I'm switching to a dog food that I think might work. Cricket breeding article I'm going by says they need protein, and suggested cat chow as the base food (they weren't worried about aflatoxin)so I'm not sure apples and potatoes would make for the healthiest crickets. The dog food I have has the following ingredients (in order):
Ground whole wheat flour, beef meal, ground whole rice, avocado oil, soybean oil, avocado meal, lecithin, flax seed, herring meal, dried kelp, dried alfalfa meal, and then a lot of mineral etc. It does not list corn or chicken (I'm still not sure why chicken is on the list: can someone clarify this?) which someone mentioned above as being no-nos. Some of you seem to really know your stuff, so what do you think? There will be no bedding (just egg crates). Dog chow will be coated with rep-cal and non-fat dried milk as recommended. Any other suggestions? Also, where and how do you get crickets checked (cheaply) for aflatoxin?

Re: Aflatoxin free Cricket breeding experiment 101: i [Re: ] #614117
08/17/08 04:01 AM
08/17/08 04:01 AM
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Hmmm makes me wonder who was feeding it to their mealies now? No idea but maybe I can figure it out. I thought it was neat they were composting their waste....we have a bunch of gliders on the clean plate club....leftovers? What is that? All we have is some ocassional moon bits usually. LOL. I would stick with the apple or potato then and keep it off the bedding. I have been using potato for the last month problem free. Seems to keep them fed and watered plenty well (my super worms). With the crickets you may want to use some of that gel for food and liquid too. I hated crickets with water because you have to have it shallow to prevent drowning and then they poop all over the paper towel I would put in the dish to keep them from drowning. Ugh! No win for me with those things!

Last edited by cinnamonstix; 08/17/08 04:04 AM.

~GWEN~
Crazy Hubby Dru
Tortoise: Vork
Cats: Scooby, Swiper, Zero, Dinah & Sykes
Suggies: Meeko, Willow & Nemo; Rei, Rafiki & Rajah; Opal, Lily & Link; Tael, Tatl & Navi; Kristoff Krabbs & Crabby Patty
:rbridge: Fern, Cjarsa, Syfka, Icarus, Ivy, Howie & Gracie

www.cinnamonstix-n-sugar.com
Re: Aflatoxin free Cricket breeding experiment 101: i [Re: cinnamonstix] #614287
08/17/08 12:45 PM
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The gel water works ok for the crickets (just remember to change frequently, as with everything!) But I found, and remember during a discussion here that it wasn't uncommon, that the wet cricket foods just made loss higher for some reason. dunno

I think the dry dog food is fine. I used a dry reptile food for mine that had no corn based products in it (was feeding reptiles too at the time, so it made sense) when I was keeping crickets. I don't know why chicken would be bad, I can't think of a reason why it would be any worse than any other meat product. dunno

I found both breeding and housing crickets that dry food with gel water worked the best for me as far as cleanliness, smell and ease of care. Again, though, it has been a long time since I helped breed, and I wouldn't do it now the way I did then. wink


~Gretchen

If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.
Re: Aflatoxin free Cricket breeding experiment 101: i [Re: sugarlope] #614649
08/17/08 08:07 PM
08/17/08 08:07 PM

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I was using the gel water, but it's kind of expensive so again, on suggestion by cricket breed article am using a reptile waterer (small bottle upside down in dish with a sponge to keep crickets from drowning.) When I change out the water I microwave the sponge to kill all bacteria. Article on this recently said microwaving sponge for 1 minute (making sure it's wet so it wont catch on fire!) gets rid of almost all bacteria (I do it for my kitchen sponge now at the end of each night anyway.) Running it through dishwasher also works, but for crickets don't want the bleach in the sponge from detergent.

Will keep learning and tweeking things. Plastic bin without bedding works great for cleaning because I can just tip it to side, let all crickets run up to the other end and clean out waste. Smell isn't so bad....yet ;-)

Re: Aflatoxin free Cricket breeding experiment 101: i [Re: ] #614703
08/17/08 10:07 PM
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You can make your own gel water by using unflavored gelatin.


~Gretchen

If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.
Re: Aflatoxin free Cricket breeding experiment 101: i [Re: sugarlope] #614889
08/18/08 02:12 AM
08/18/08 02:12 AM

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Wow, I'll pick some up tomorrow. Wonder if I can add in Rep-Cal to make it like the calcium fortified gel. THANKS!

Re: Aflatoxin free Cricket breeding experiment 101: i [Re: ] #615100
08/18/08 12:25 PM
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I would think that the rep-cal would sink to the bottom of the gel, but I don't know. Glad to help. thumb


~Gretchen

If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.

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