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T+ Creamino with a T- albino? #628446
09/04/08 07:01 PM
09/04/08 07:01 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,061
Mesa, AZ
konotashi Offline OP
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konotashi  Offline OP
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Would you get a creamino that's het for a normal albino, or would it just end up being a creamino? I'm doing a bunch of punnet squares and I want to know this before I make more.

Re: T+ Creamino with a T- albino? [Re: konotashi] #628469
09/04/08 07:40 PM
09/04/08 07:40 PM
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Ohio
Guerita135 Offline
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If one of it's parents were an albino or albino het then the cremino would be a possible albino het as well.


~Nicole~

Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy! grin
Re: T+ Creamino with a T- albino? [Re: Guerita135] #628508
09/04/08 08:25 PM
09/04/08 08:25 PM

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GizmosGal
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Priscilla paired a creamino with an albino and got....




































Gray babies! Very surprising, lol. But they are double hets.

Re: T+ Creamino with a T- albino? [Re: ] #628510
09/04/08 08:27 PM
09/04/08 08:27 PM

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That's very interesting Stacie smile Bet that one was unexpected! But it makes perfect sense if both creamino and albino are autosomal recessive traits.

Re: T+ Creamino with a T- albino? [Re: ] #628522
09/04/08 08:47 PM
09/04/08 08:47 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 841
Houston, Texas
gliderboy4life Offline
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Yes we did get grey babies! Very Very pretty babies though. We were going off a something Stacy had said once- your supposed to get a blue eyed white. That was according to snakes though(i think). Maybe the babies from this pairing created a new gene though????? Who knows?!?!?!


Tyler Cleckley
www.GliderBoyGliders.com
Re: T+ Creamino with a T- albino? [Re: gliderboy4life] #628535
09/04/08 09:03 PM
09/04/08 09:03 PM

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GizmosGal
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Yep. Talking to a snake breeder, I was told T- plus T+ equaled an albino with blue eyes. Maybe it is hit or miss. I never expected they could have gray babies.

Tyler, has P paired a leu with an albino yet? There was a lot of speculation on what you would end up with. Many people believed that 2 white gliders could not produce a gray. After this, I believe leu plus albino would equal a gray double het.

Re: T+ Creamino with a T- albino? [Re: ] #628542
09/04/08 09:08 PM
09/04/08 09:08 PM

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hollysmom
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then a creamino with a leu would????????????

do what?

Re: T+ Creamino with a T- albino? [Re: gliderboy4life] #628571
09/04/08 09:57 PM
09/04/08 09:57 PM
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Guerita135 Offline
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Originally Posted By: gliderboy4life
Yes we did get grey babies! Very Very pretty babies though. We were going off a something Stacy had said once- your supposed to get a blue eyed white. That was according to snakes though(i think). Maybe the babies from this pairing created a new gene though????? Who knows?!?!?!


I thought that the theory was that if you paired a LEU and albino you'd get blue-eyed whites? Not cremino and albino...

Perhaps she should try pairing a leu and a cremino? Since those are both whole genes and albino is only a partial gene. Right?


~Nicole~

Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy! grin
Re: T+ Creamino with a T- albino? [Re: Guerita135] #628599
09/04/08 10:22 PM
09/04/08 10:22 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,061
Mesa, AZ
konotashi Offline OP
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Wow. I should ask my dad. He used to be a snake breeder and might know about this stuff!

Re: T+ Creamino with a T- albino? [Re: konotashi] #628613
09/04/08 10:37 PM
09/04/08 10:37 PM
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Guerita135 Offline
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Well, I did a wee bit of research and found this:

http://www.grazianireptiles.com/collection/leucistic.htm

It shows the combos that have resulted in blue-eyed white snakes.

Here's a platinum:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/d0gmatic/2584042640/

A mojave:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/katsnake/2233506067/

They look like what I guess would be a creminos if we were using glider colors to describe them. So, I guess that would mean that crossing a leu and cremino or even 2 creminos could possibly result in a blue-eyed white glider?

Anyone have thoughts?


~Nicole~

Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy! grin
Re: T+ Creamino with a T- albino? [Re: Guerita135] #628617
09/04/08 10:41 PM
09/04/08 10:41 PM
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Posts: 4,061
Mesa, AZ
konotashi Offline OP
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I think that two creaminos would make another creamino, since they would both be T+, but honestly, I have no idea. roflmao

Those snakes look amazing, though.

It's possible that a creamino x leu would make a blue eyed leu. That'd be amazing!
I wonder how much those would go for....

I can just imagine how beautiful they'd be.

Re: T+ Creamino with a T- albino? [Re: konotashi] #628632
09/04/08 11:06 PM
09/04/08 11:06 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 841
Houston, Texas
gliderboy4life Offline
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I am so anxious to see if we get anything at P's. Two creme-inos do make creme-ino Flying Fur Ranch just did that.


Tyler Cleckley
www.GliderBoyGliders.com
Re: T+ Creamino with a T- albino? [Re: gliderboy4life] #628682
09/05/08 12:29 AM
09/05/08 12:29 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,061
Mesa, AZ
konotashi Offline OP
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I think the genetics that confuse me the most next to this is WF. Is it dominant, co-dominant, or what? I have no idea what goes on with WF!

Re: T+ Creamino with a T- albino? [Re: gliderboy4life] #628700
09/05/08 12:58 AM
09/05/08 12:58 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 9,173
Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Judie Offline
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Well, when talking about Crem-ino from flying fur ranch and then the the dilute ones that are coming for the albino line... I still say those two are different varriations.

I do know from the Orig Lines of the Crem-ino that No white Albino has resulted.

The White Albinos coming from Victor seem to pass a crem-ino looking glider but I still say it is not the same as the version coming from Flying Fur Ranch.

Now the trick is to find out who is actually Crem-ino and who is the t+ Albino.

Tyler, the crem-ino breeding that Priscilla did.. was that with two Crem-ino's from Flying Fur Ranch or was one of the crem-ino's lineage from the White Albino which has Victor in it?

Since FFR produced crem-ino-s from two crem-ino=s my guess is that Priscilla's breeding for two Crem-inos that resulted in two Het colored babies that one of the crem-ino's has
the White Albino in it.

If that is the case.. the Crem-ino from flying fur ranch is a varriation all of it's own. And the Cream colored creamino being produced by the Albino is a dilute amd is CO-Dominant Simple Recessive.?????

Re: T+ Creamino with a T- albino? [Re: konotashi] #628709
09/05/08 01:37 AM
09/05/08 01:37 AM
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Ohio
Guerita135 Offline
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Originally Posted By: konotashi
I think the genetics that confuse me the most next to this is WF. Is it dominant, co-dominant, or what? I have no idea what goes on with WF!


WF is exactly the same as mosaic.


~Nicole~

Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy! grin
Re: T+ Creamino with a T- albino? [Re: Judie] #628711
09/05/08 01:44 AM
09/05/08 01:44 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 9,173
Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Judie Offline
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Since the White Albino line from Victor is throwing both colors... White Albino and a dilute looking Cream Colored glider like a Crem-ino.. my guess is then is that the White Albino is the t- and the dilute looking cream colored glider from that line is the t+ Albino.

The gene for Albino has a switch so to speak. When turned off... there is no color. When the switch for color is turned on... then the color is a dilute looking Albino. Thus the t- and t+ Albino.

This then makes the Crem-ino a totally different varriation. And the gene for it is Simple Recessive.

Re: T+ Creamino with a T- albino? [Re: Judie] #628765
09/05/08 06:39 AM
09/05/08 06:39 AM

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GizmosGal
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Judie, I have paired a creamino from Susan's line with a het out of Victor and gotten full colored creamino joeys that are identical in color to their creamino parent.

Re: T+ Creamino with a T- albino? [Re: ] #628851
09/05/08 10:34 AM
09/05/08 10:34 AM

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BuddyHolly
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Holy cow I feel dumb. You guys lost me in the very beginning. One of these days I'm gonna have to sit down with someone and have them explain it to me on paper. I'm one of those learners.

Re: T+ Creamino with a T- albino? [Re: ] #628852
09/05/08 10:34 AM
09/05/08 10:34 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 9,173
Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Judie Offline
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Then how come... none of the orig crem-inos from FFR have never produced the White Albino? With five years of Susan breeding the Crem-ino's ... she has only produced the cream colored gliders.

If the Crem-inos are one in the same ... it would seem that a White Albino would have shown up by now in the FFR gliders. It is only when Victor's lineage (White Albino) is introduced to the FFR cream colored gliders do we see this.

When pairing Crem-inos together one gets Creamino? Pair a Crem-ino to a White Albino and it is possible to get Normal Colored glider?








Re: T+ Creamino with a T- albino? [Re: Judie] #628859
09/05/08 10:41 AM
09/05/08 10:41 AM
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sweetheart26 Offline
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why is there so few albinos being born..and more creamios?







mom to sugar gliders storm,thunder,lighting,snowball,rosebud,winter,string,summer fall and sweet.



Re: T+ Creamino with a T- albino? [Re: sweetheart26] #628876
09/05/08 11:22 AM
09/05/08 11:22 AM

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GizmosGal
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I am not saying the creaminos and albino are one in the same. I believe that Susan's creamino line only carries the T+ gene. Therefore, they will never be able to produce albinos, since they do not have the T- gene. On the other hand, the Moe and Disko line seem to carry the T+ AND T- genes. That is why we have seen creamino AND albino babies appear from this line. Once again, paired to Susan's T+ line, they are only able to produce T+ joeys or hets and not albinos. To produce an albino, both parents must carry the T- gene. Susan's line doesn't have it.

By pairing a creamino from Susan's line with a T+/T- het from Moe and Disko's line and producing a creamino, I believe it confirms that they are the same T+ gene and Susan's line is not another variation altogether.


Re: T+ Creamino with a T- albino? [Re: sweetheart26] #628882
09/05/08 11:30 AM
09/05/08 11:30 AM
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Ohio
Guerita135 Offline
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Originally Posted By: sweetheart26

why is there so few albinos being born..and more creamios?


Become the cremino gene is complete, while the albino gene is only partial. So, if a glider has both genes then it is more likely to produce a cremino because the gene is stronger.

Make sense?


~Nicole~

Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy! grin
Re: T+ Creamino with a T- albino? [Re: Guerita135] #628890
09/05/08 11:36 AM
09/05/08 11:36 AM
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sweetheart26 Offline
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Thanks Nicole that answers my question smile







mom to sugar gliders storm,thunder,lighting,snowball,rosebud,winter,string,summer fall and sweet.



Re: T+ Creamino with a T- albino? [Re: sweetheart26] #629162
09/05/08 07:45 PM
09/05/08 07:45 PM
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Stacy- Are you sure that Victor really isn't a dilute creme-ino? I think that once creme-ino is produced from the Albino line that is all you are going to get. Since it is so strong it is just going to overpower t-.

I think there are very few pure Albino lines, meaning that there are few that aren't throwing Creme-ino. Priscilla's Dimples(brother to Victor) we believe has no creme-ino in him. His son Smiles was the one with the Creme-ino, never was a creme-ino produced so I don't think he carries Albino either. My het pair had an Albino, she didn't make it, but was definately Albino. Hopefully my pair stays pure to Albino.

These are just my opinions and observations.


Tyler Cleckley
www.GliderBoyGliders.com
Re: T+ Creamino with a T- albino? [Re: gliderboy4life] #629167
09/05/08 07:52 PM
09/05/08 07:52 PM
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sweetheart26 Offline
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Awww Tyler sorry for your loss frown hugs..







mom to sugar gliders storm,thunder,lighting,snowball,rosebud,winter,string,summer fall and sweet.



Re: T+ Creamino with a T- albino? [Re: sweetheart26] #629170
09/05/08 07:55 PM
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sweetheart26 Offline
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I have two 50% albino hets i hope they prove out to be 100%, they have joeys ip..we will wait and see smile







mom to sugar gliders storm,thunder,lighting,snowball,rosebud,winter,string,summer fall and sweet.



Re: T+ Creamino with a T- albino? [Re: gliderboy4life] #629205
09/05/08 08:28 PM
09/05/08 08:28 PM
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Guerita135 Offline
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Originally Posted By: gliderboy4life
I think that once creme-ino is produced from the Albino line that is all you are going to get. Since it is so strong it is just going to overpower t-.


That can't be true because Sheila's Humperdink and Snowflake produced 2 albinos(Dimples and Victor) and 2 creminos. So, although the cremino gene is stronger, that doesn't make it impossible for a pair to produce albinos AND creminos.


~Nicole~

Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy! grin
Re: T+ Creamino with a T- albino? [Re: sweetheart26] #629207
09/05/08 08:31 PM
09/05/08 08:31 PM

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GizmosGal
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Victor is pure white. He has ruby eyes, not burgundy. I don't believe he is dilute creamino. My dilute creaminos have the burgundy eyes, faint stripe and darker tails and pataganiums. He has none of those.

Re: T+ Creamino with a T- albino? [Re: ] #629217
09/05/08 08:39 PM
09/05/08 08:39 PM
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Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Judie Offline
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For some reason I thought Victor was a White albino with the ruby red eye color. Ok, I see I was correct as to Victor being a White Albino.

So, what is a Dilute Albino? Is this dilute the same color as the FFR Crem-inos?

Re: T+ Creamino with a T- albino? [Re: Judie] #629233
09/05/08 09:05 PM
09/05/08 09:05 PM
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Houston, Texas
gliderboy4life Offline
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Nicole- Notice she had 2 albinos then 2 creme-inos. Why not more albinos? If they have more Albinos then I would agree with you, but so far they have had FFR colored creme-inos. Almost as if the gene could possibly mutate somehow and become stronger, a creme-ino is a stronger glider and might last a little bit longer in the wild since it is not pure white. Again Just my opinion.

There isn't a dilute albino, but yet the dilute creme-ino from albino lines. It just has faint creme-ino markings.


Tyler Cleckley
www.GliderBoyGliders.com
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