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How much fighting is OK? #631181
09/08/08 07:43 PM
09/08/08 07:43 PM

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Well, my neutered male Kirby and my female Tanooki are at it again with their bickering. This is the pair where it took me a year to get them peaceably living together to begin with.

Not only is Kirby zealously guarding BOTH food dishes (despite me placing them on opposite sides of the cage) and chasing Tanooki away from them, he is also now going to town crabbing and by the sound of it lunging whenever Tanooki tries to join him in the pouch for a nap.

Tanooki seems to be getting enough to eat and they wind up in the same pouch eventually when I peek in during the day. I usually can't catch them fighting because they will stop when I peek in past the cage cover. I haven't seem them balling up and I haven't seen any injuries...just really nasty awful crabbing and chasing noises.

What could make Kirby be so stressed? The food guarding has been going on for a little over a month maybe, and the pouch guarding has really picked up over the past week. I don't know what to do with them. Should I just leave them together as they are not hurting eachother? How can I get Kirby to chill out? Nothing I can think of has really changed besides a new roomie moving in, and she isn't really disturbing them in any particular way dunno Any advice you have is welcome.

Re: How much fighting is OK? [Re: ] #631201
09/08/08 08:18 PM
09/08/08 08:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,843
Lisle, Illinois
SugareeErin Offline
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sounds like they don't really get along. Personally I would get them new mates, it sounds like they are stressing out. As long as they aren't hurting each other you could keep them together, but it is probably stressful for both gliders. SOme gliders just don't get along. I tried to intro Simba to two other gliders before he accepted my girls.

I have one suggestion, with food agression it's best to have at least 1 more food dish that there are gliders in the cage, so you should have three or four. It's a harder to gaurd that many. Place them at different levels, maybe even put one or two in small one glider kitchens.

Good luck with them, hopefully they will sort out their differences.




:leu: Sugaree Gliders :rtmo:


Simba, Nala, Rain, Snow & Sugaree

Shadowdancer, Sugar Magnolia, Sunshine Daydream, Winter, Twinkle, Twilight, Everlette, Sparkle, Polar Bear, Indigo & Willow








Re: How much fighting is OK? [Re: SugareeErin] #631239
09/08/08 09:18 PM
09/08/08 09:18 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,224
North Fort Worth - TX
jacknsally Offline
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I agree- they don't sound happy together, just tolerating. I personally think it's only a matter of time before the fighting does get aggressive. I would separate and find them someone they can be happy with.


Ñancy
~Always on my mind & in my heart Jack, Sally & Serenity~


Mobmilli's Boutique
Re: How much fighting is OK? [Re: SugareeErin] #631244
09/08/08 09:26 PM
09/08/08 09:26 PM

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Machelle815
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Someone told me you had some you wanted to perhaps send to new homes. Email me...Inhiding0509@yahoo.com My lil girl Izzy needs some friends.

Re: How much fighting is OK? [Re: ] #631314
09/08/08 11:37 PM
09/08/08 11:37 PM

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i'm going through something very similar just not the chasing, and its super hard, cause you want them to be happy and you know they are bonded to eachother but... i really hope it works out, and if you find some answers please let me know....

Re: How much fighting is OK? [Re: ] #631830
09/09/08 06:22 PM
09/09/08 06:22 PM
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Long Island, NY
Gossamer Offline
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How big is their cage? Has your male been in for a vet check lately? Maybe he isn't feeling well.


Jeannine

3 Cats (Spike, Kismet, Honeycat)
1 understanding Husband
1 WFB Neutered Glider boy - Grissom! (oop 8/7/06) :wfb:
1 BB Glider girl- Willows! (oop 1/7/07) :bb:
Re: How much fighting is OK? [Re: Gossamer] #631858
09/09/08 07:13 PM
09/09/08 07:13 PM

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How long have they been living together? Was there a point where they were getting along, and now they are suddenly not?

Re: How much fighting is OK? [Re: ] #631985
09/09/08 09:13 PM
09/09/08 09:13 PM

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7glider7
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OK, sorry, my internet was out lately so I couldn't reply. This is going to be long but here is the whole story if you care to read and offer advice (and it is VERY welcome).

Machelle, not sure who told you I'm sending them to new homes, but I don't want to do that unless it's completely necessary.

Kirby was in for a vet check about 2-3 weeks ago because I thought he was sneezing a bit and he was overgrooming his eyebrows a bit, which is a first for him. I thought maybe he was working on a sinus infection. The vet checked him over and did not run a urinalysis or a fecal because she felt he looked really good.

More history on these gliders:

It was not easy introducing them because they always did great during playtime together and also sleeping together by day, but Kirby would be aggresive in terms of grooming Tanooki or following her around and small fights would break out. They used to roll up and such. This went on for about a year with them living in separate cages at night before I decided it wasn't really working.

At this time I decided maybe Kirby was just too aggressive and maybe he needed to be housed singly (awful sounding, I know) and adopted another female, Zoey, to be a buddy for Tanooki.

Intros between Tanooki and Zoey went awful. Zoey first attacked Tanooki, and then after that it was hate at first site, Tanooki attacking Zoey every chance she got, even when Zoey was later trying to be nice. We tried intros with them for about 4 months with ALL the tricks in the book before I finally gave up. Interestingly, around the time Zoey came home with me, Kirby and Tanooki ceased fighting. It was like they decided they wanted to be a duo now that "another female" was around. They were united in their seeming hatred for Zoey.

We purchased Zeus, a male, to be a mate for Zoey. We had two separate but happy duos in 2 separate cages.

The most recent major change was my boyfriend and I broke up in May. He keeps Zoey and Zeus at his place, and Tanooki and Kirby stay with me. I didn't notice any major changes in their behavior for the first couple of months after I moved. But now I'm wondering if not having the "other female" around is somehow affecting them. Interestingly Chris (my ex) also reported that Zoey and Zeus were having mini-fights.

I really don't want to separate them if possible because the last time I tried to re-pair these two, they did NOT take kindly to meeting another glider. They are were SO aggressive with Zoey when I tried to introduce her. I don't have room for more than two gliders so trying to bring home two new gliders and making two new pairs is not an option, and I'm afraid if I rehome them they won't get along in their new home, and then what would happen to them? I guess I could try to give away both my gliders but not only would I be heartbroken but I am also wondering if that would be more stressful to them than what is going on now. cry

Sorry for the long story. I will try more food bowls. I am happy for any other ideas you have frown Please help me out.

Re: How much fighting is OK? [Re: ] #632007
09/09/08 09:26 PM
09/09/08 09:26 PM
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Lisle, Illinois
SugareeErin Offline
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I would say load up the cage with new stuff, rotate toys, change the set up daily. Try to make them so busy exploring they don't have time to fight. Get lots of foragers and hide mealies and treats all over.

I don't know what size cage you have but a bigger cage would give them a little more "personal" space. Do you keep multiple pouches in the cage?

Maybe if you seperate them temorarily and give them a chance to cool they will appreciate each other more when you put them back together? I would check with your vet too and ask about calming herbals to reduce stress.



:leu: Sugaree Gliders :rtmo:


Simba, Nala, Rain, Snow & Sugaree

Shadowdancer, Sugar Magnolia, Sunshine Daydream, Winter, Twinkle, Twilight, Everlette, Sparkle, Polar Bear, Indigo & Willow








Re: How much fighting is OK? [Re: SugareeErin] #632020
09/09/08 09:33 PM
09/09/08 09:33 PM

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I will try adding more toys. Neither one are really into toys but maybe it'll help.

They are in a 3x2x5' tall cage, so pretty big. Currently two pouches are in the cage as well as a cocohut and several hammocks they sometimes choose to sleep in. There are also two wheels.

I currently place 2 food dishes at different levels in the cage but I am going to try more along with more toys.

Do you guys think I should put Tanooki (my female) or Kirby (my male who seems to be doing a lot of the crabbing/chasing) in the reptarium for a couple of nights for them to cool off? Or does it matter?

Re: How much fighting is OK? [Re: SugareeErin] #632024
09/09/08 09:39 PM
09/09/08 09:39 PM

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calming herbals to reduce stress??

Re: How much fighting is OK? [Re: SugareeErin] #632025
09/09/08 09:40 PM
09/09/08 09:40 PM
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North Fort Worth - TX
jacknsally Offline
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Erin took my words- what are their pouch numbers like? Have you tried feeding separately to help control the food agression? Have you noticed if their incidents seem to be around the same time of month or are they not regular? It could be a inheat situation and they just need separate times when she's in heat.

What are your bonding times like with them? Do you do them together as a pair or one on one? Maybe try the opposite to see it helps Kirby settle down. How is he when you have playtime together? I'm just grasping to see if he may have some kind of hostility or jealousy of you, since he hasn't been overly accepting of the intro from the beginning.


Ñancy
~Always on my mind & in my heart Jack, Sally & Serenity~


Mobmilli's Boutique
Re: How much fighting is OK? [Re: ] #632029
09/09/08 09:51 PM
09/09/08 09:51 PM
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North Fort Worth - TX
jacknsally Offline
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Originally Posted By: 7glider7
They are in a 3x2x5' tall cage, so pretty big. Currently two pouches are in the cage as well as a cocohut and several hammocks they sometimes choose to sleep in. There are also two wheels.

I currently place 2 food dishes at different levels in the cage but I am going to try more along with more toys.

Do you guys think I should put Tanooki (my female) or Kirby (my male who seems to be doing a lot of the crabbing/chasing) in the reptarium for a couple of nights for them to cool off? Or does it matter?


Hmm- not to be personal but what is the environment like around them in the home? I know when things get heated around here at times, that it affects my gliders. They pick up on the stess and they get upset. There are times I use them to calm myself down and they are very crabby & nippy so I just let them be till the next day.


Ñancy
~Always on my mind & in my heart Jack, Sally & Serenity~


Mobmilli's Boutique
Re: How much fighting is OK? [Re: jacknsally] #632034
09/09/08 10:02 PM
09/09/08 10:02 PM
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Lisle, Illinois
SugareeErin Offline
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That stinks they don't like toys, do they at least like treats? My gliders went bonkers over sugar benders...and they have little treat cups. Maybe if they discover treats hiding in the toys they will have more interest dunno

My vet does homeopathic medicine as well and recommended a herbal supp for my male who was stressed. I mentioned this because you said the male seems stressed, as I imagine your female is too. Maybe something like that would calm him down and they will settle back into their normal routine.



:leu: Sugaree Gliders :rtmo:


Simba, Nala, Rain, Snow & Sugaree

Shadowdancer, Sugar Magnolia, Sunshine Daydream, Winter, Twinkle, Twilight, Everlette, Sparkle, Polar Bear, Indigo & Willow








Re: How much fighting is OK? [Re: SugareeErin] #632038
09/09/08 10:09 PM
09/09/08 10:09 PM

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Well...Tanooki loves all treats, Kirby will eat only mealies, and I have to try to limit treats for him because he's getting F-A-T. And I have never been able to just leave treats around in their cage. If Tanooki finds it first, Kirby will take it away from her aggressively, and the last thing he needs is to be eating all the treats!

I will run the homeopathic stuff by my vet...thanks!

Re: How much fighting is OK? [Re: jacknsally] #632040
09/09/08 10:12 PM
09/09/08 10:12 PM

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7glider7
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Originally Posted By: jacknsally
Erin took my words- what are their pouch numbers like? Have you tried feeding separately to help control the food agression? Have you noticed if their incidents seem to be around the same time of month or are they not regular? It could be a inheat situation and they just need separate times when she's in heat.

What are your bonding times like with them? Do you do them together as a pair or one on one? Maybe try the opposite to see it helps Kirby settle down. How is he when you have playtime together? I'm just grasping to see if he may have some kind of hostility or jealousy of you, since he hasn't been overly accepting of the intro from the beginning.





Have not tried feeding separate, but I will start doing that if the multiple food dishes (as in more than 2) doesn't fix the problem. They are not centered around when she is in heat, the problem is ongoing. As for bonding times, we do them together, and they are totally fine once they are in the same pouch during the day when they have been in there for a while (it just seems Kirby doesn't want her to climb in for a nap and gives her a hard time climbing in at first in the morning).

Kirby is and ALWAYS has been very standoffish during playtime. He is standoffish in general, and likes to keep to himself. He doesn't really play with Tanooki per se, and he is not interested in playing with me. When I try to engage him often times he will just sort of dart away or ignore me at best. Kirby and I have never bonded incredibly strongly, and as far as Tanooki he pretty much ranges from passive and tolerant (at best) and aggressive at worst. He is my weird little guy. I guess you could say he may have some hostility towards me, but that hasn't really changed recently...he's always had it! tounge

Re: How much fighting is OK? [Re: ] #632125
09/09/08 11:14 PM
09/09/08 11:14 PM
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sugarlope Offline
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Jen, have you tried covering their cage (or is it already covered?) Just three sides, but with high stress gliders, sometimes a change in environment can and does greatly affect them and if they can't see it, it doesn't bother them as much. Plus the cage cover traps their scent in better so it is stronger around them and comforting as well. You might also try putting feeding stations at different heights of the cage. I have repts too, one way to do it is to hang bowl of food in the corner up high, in the corner (in the middle) and two kitchens at the bottom. You can also use shelves and kitchens if they are messy eaters.

Have they ever run out of food - i.e. licked their bowls clean? With my trio, one of the males will go nuts, attacking both of the other gliders if he thinks they are going to run out of food. My gliders eat more or less depending on the season and if I don't change their food amounts quickly enough when they are eating more, he will start attacking the other two. I have to completely overfeed them for 1-2 weeks to get him to stop, as well as make sure the food is always there before they wake up so that he knows no one will go hungry. They wouldn't have, but some high stress gliders seem to not realize that, plus, once they start keeping everyone away from the food, they don't eat enough which keeps them thinking they are hungry longer...vicious cycle.

Oh, and when I feed mealworms, I can't feed them in the cage, I have to feed all three of them elsewhere or they will fight because they are ALL afraid that one of them missed a mealworm in the cage and one of the others is going to find it first. shakehead If I feed them outside of the cage (seperately), they all come back smelling like mealworms, but there is no worry that the cage has any.

I don't know that any of that has anything to do with what is going on with your pair, but thought it would be worth telling. It took me a while to figure all of this out with mine. ohwell

Good luck!


~Gretchen

If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.
Re: How much fighting is OK? [Re: sugarlope] #632177
09/09/08 11:57 PM
09/09/08 11:57 PM

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Originally Posted By: sugarlope

Have they ever run out of food - i.e. licked their bowls clean? With my trio, one of the males will go nuts, attacking both of the other gliders if he thinks they are going to run out of food. My gliders eat more or less depending on the season and if I don't change their food amounts quickly enough when they are eating more, he will start attacking the other two. I have to completely overfeed them for 1-2 weeks to get him to stop, as well as make sure the food is always there before they wake up so that he knows no one will go hungry. They wouldn't have, but some high stress gliders seem to not realize that, plus, once they start keeping everyone away from the food, they don't eat enough which keeps them thinking they are hungry longer...vicious cycle.



Cage is covered with a fleece cage cover that totally covers 3 sides and drapes mostly across the front dunno

And now that you mention it YES they have been licking the bowls entirely clean and maybe this is the problem!!!

They very rarely leave leftovers, and I haven't really thought of this as a problem, since Tanooki is maintaining weight and I am trying to get Kirby to lose weight. I am sort of afraid of feeding him more since he is already getting dangerously pudgy, but heck, if it stops the fighting by putting in an extra bit, maybe it is worth it!

I am trying separate feeding times tonight and if that doesn't help I am going to try adding more food to see if this alleviates tension...thanks so much for this idea!

Really I feel like they ARE bonded to eachother...I was in tears today about this whole thing but I was watching them during playtime tonight, and they were clicking to eachother and grooming eachother...so cute...they really do love eachother, they just really bicker a lot sometimes and it breaks my heart to think that they are stressed or unhappy frown

Re: How much fighting is OK? [Re: ] #632197
09/10/08 12:14 AM
09/10/08 12:14 AM
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Posts: 3,843
Lisle, Illinois
SugareeErin Offline
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Jen- I have three cages right now and they all bicker from time to time. Only you can decide if it is too much, if they seem happy most of the time they probably are. I think adding more food is a great idea. I always overfeed, I hate to think any of them were still hungry if they run out. Do you feed a staple food? That might be a good idea too so there is always food available, he may not be as crazy about gaurding it then?



:leu: Sugaree Gliders :rtmo:


Simba, Nala, Rain, Snow & Sugaree

Shadowdancer, Sugar Magnolia, Sunshine Daydream, Winter, Twinkle, Twilight, Everlette, Sparkle, Polar Bear, Indigo & Willow








Re: How much fighting is OK? [Re: SugareeErin] #632350
09/10/08 08:26 AM
09/10/08 08:26 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,224
North Fort Worth - TX
jacknsally Offline
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Was Kirby a rehome or a rescue? Something has got that little guy so high strung and stressed out towards people & other gliders. Lsardou knows of a medical magnet therapy, maybe something like that could help him settle his nerves.


Ñancy
~Always on my mind & in my heart Jack, Sally & Serenity~


Mobmilli's Boutique
Re: How much fighting is OK? [Re: jacknsally] #632681
09/10/08 04:23 PM
09/10/08 04:23 PM
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sugarlope Offline
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I'm sorry I didn't see this post sooner. The food is the first thing I think of in cases like this. But just so you know, particularly since it has been going on for a while, even if it is the problem, it won't change over night. If I don't think increase their food amounts after they have cleaned the bowl for 2-3 nights and they start up, it can take a week or two of me overfeeding them to settle down again (and I also increase feeding stations and start feeding at different levels to make it difficult to guard all of the bowls). I keep them at an increased amount until I notice that they decrease food consumtion for 3 nights in a row, then I drop them back down. (This can last a month or 3-4 months depending on the season).

I started keeping a daily chart and I write down how much the cage has eaten each morning, and if they clean their bowl two nights in a row, they get more food the next night for at least a week. Again, usually they maintain a good eating level at the higher level for a while before eating less so I am able to drop their food back down again.

I don't know, but that is what has worked for me. I have an overweight boy in the cage and he just gets fewer mealworms than the other two (I still have to feed them mealworms separately and out of the cage). Otherwise they all get along wonderfully!


~Gretchen

If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.
Re: How much fighting is OK? [Re: sugarlope] #633038
09/10/08 09:46 PM
09/10/08 09:46 PM

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I haven't put out a staple yet. I am going to increase the food amount as well as maybe purchase some monkey biscuits to leave out during the day and see if this helps...thanks for the note Gretchen that it may take some time.

Kirby was not a rehome or a rescue. I got him when he was about 9 weeks oop. I do wonder if it had to do with him being neutered so young. The breeder told me it was OK, and I figured if he said it was, it was. The moment I went to pick him up he crabbed, and he was lunging and trying to bite and crabbing from the moment I got him home even if anyone was in the same room as him. The breeder told me he wonders if he had a bad experience with his neutering; he said he was calmer before and "not the same" after that. I learned quickly that all the standard "glider info" did not apply to Kirby, and he has always been very different. He will now tolerate being carried in a pouch, will tolerate hopping on my arm, will tolerate being scooped up, but he clearly doesn't like any of it.

Yesterday I fed them separately and gave them each about 1.5 hours to work on their food. Then I put the gliders and the food bowls back in the big cage. I didn't hear any fighting last night, but there was some bickering again this morning when Tanooki tried to climb into Kirby's pouch. Still, this is a bit of progress...I will keep you updated on what happens next tounge Thanks so much for all the info. I just want these little dudes to be happy!

Re: How much fighting is OK? [Re: ] #633057
09/10/08 10:02 PM
09/10/08 10:02 PM
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Posts: 3,843
Lisle, Illinois
SugareeErin Offline
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Well at least it's a step in the right dircetion smile clap



:leu: Sugaree Gliders :rtmo:


Simba, Nala, Rain, Snow & Sugaree

Shadowdancer, Sugar Magnolia, Sunshine Daydream, Winter, Twinkle, Twilight, Everlette, Sparkle, Polar Bear, Indigo & Willow








Re: How much fighting is OK? [Re: SugareeErin] #633315
09/11/08 08:49 AM
09/11/08 08:49 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,224
North Fort Worth - TX
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What size pouch are you offering them? Maybe trying something larger will help with the pouch issues- I've seen some gliders crab at another climbing in because they just don't know who or what is trying to enter the pouch. Maybe something with a lareger opening like a cube so he can always see what is coming in at him.


Ñancy
~Always on my mind & in my heart Jack, Sally & Serenity~


Mobmilli's Boutique
Re: How much fighting is OK? [Re: jacknsally] #634762
09/12/08 10:29 PM
09/12/08 10:29 PM

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It's a biggun! PixTrix made them special for me...it's extra large! The second pouch in their cage is smaller, but the one they always choose to sleep in is huge! About double the size of a normal pouch.

Well...knock on wood so I don't jinx it...but I'm happy to report that so far they are doing MUCH MUCH BETTER at feeding time! mlove I have been feeding them separately for the first hour and then recombining them with the food in there in the large cage. I have also upped the food amount. So far I have heard NO BICKERING over food the past three nights, and only minor crabbing in the morning about getting situated in the pouch! Fingers crossed they may finally be OK again! mlove

Thanks so much everyone for all the advice!

Re: How much fighting is OK? [Re: ] #634836
09/13/08 12:15 AM
09/13/08 12:15 AM
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sugarlope Offline
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clap I hope it keeps up for them (and you!!! grin ) I would keep doing what you are doing for another week and then you can try feeding together again and see if it makes a difference. But I would continue to watch their food and if you notice them cleaning their bowls (ever) give them a little more the next night. thumb


~Gretchen

If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.
Re: How much fighting is OK? [Re: sugarlope] #634838
09/13/08 12:20 AM
09/13/08 12:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,843
Lisle, Illinois
SugareeErin Offline
Glider Addict
SugareeErin  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,843
Lisle, Illinois
Yay clap Great to hear that things are finally looking up for you and your babies! thumb



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Re: How much fighting is OK? [Re: SugareeErin] #635020
09/13/08 12:29 PM
09/13/08 12:29 PM

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7glider7
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7glider7
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Well...I jinxed it...they got in another fight again last night after I put them in the same cage...maybe Kirby didn't have enough time with his dinner because when I put Tanooki back in the big cage, he started barking and crabbing (I think he was saying "I'm not done yet mom!") and then a few minute later proceeded to get in a nasty spat with her. Guess I should have listened to him shakehead

Well, at least it's progress. I'm hoping this won't have to be a permanent arrangement...since I have to get up at 5:30am, it's been really difficult staying up to close to 11:30pm to have the separate feedings and then recombine the gliders. At the same time, I don't really just want to keep Tanooki in the rept in my bedroom, firstly because she just stares at me like "Why am I in here mom?" and also because she keeps me awake going crazy in her wheel! lol. If anyone has any more sleeper-friendly methods to separate feedings, I'd love to hear them!

Re: How much fighting is OK? [Re: ] #645183
09/27/08 12:36 PM
09/27/08 12:36 PM

7
7glider7
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7glider7
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7



OK, just wanted to post an update. I've increased the food amount and the gliders have been eating in separate cages for the first about 30 minutes, and then I put them back together in the big cage. This has drastically reduced any fighting down to just slight bickering in the morning when Tanooki goes to join Kirby in the pouch...and this is pretty normal for him anyways, he's just a grouch smile

Oddly enough, now that I have increased the food amount, Kirby has started to LOSE weight, which is good, because he was getting monstrously pudgy. For some odd reason with the 2 food bowls at once he was feeling like he HAD to guard them BOTH and stuff his face as much as possible. Now with his own feeding time he seems much calmer and is apparently eating a more appropriate amount.

I'm hoping this won't have to be a permanent solution, but if it is, so be it, at least they seem quite happy together most of the time again. I am going to try gradually reducing their separate eating time periods to 20 minutes, then 15, then 10, and gradually maybe see if they can eat together again.

Thanks again everyone for your advice about my odd little gliders hug2

Re: How much fighting is OK? [Re: ] #645641
09/28/08 12:55 AM
09/28/08 12:55 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,742
in my happy place
S
sugarlope Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
sugarlope  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
S

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,742
in my happy place
clap I am glad the extra food is helping. You may start to notice that their appetite will increase or decrease seasonally (all of mine do) and if you adjust up as soon as you notice, you can keep fighting to a minimum but not have to feed excessive amounts all of the time. They may eventually be able to eat together again (keeping fingers crossed for you). But if you ever notice empty bowls, increase the food the next few nights at least and see how they do.

You are not alone. I know of several gliders, including my trio, that are like this but it is definitely frustrating. hug2


~Gretchen

If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.
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