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Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? #758296
03/31/09 05:14 PM
03/31/09 05:14 PM

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prettyinpink
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Ok I made a post about a month ago I believe... asking people to give me suggestions on how to get Pixie to stop biting. Here I am again hoping we can keep trying it again.

So... what am I doing wrong? Is it just a time thing? I got her on Feb 6. She's an older glider. And she WILL cuddle with me. In fact she's curled up on my stomach, curled up on my hand under the blanket.

Sooo... how do I get her to stop biting. Trust me it's not a pretty bite. She doesn't lunge or anything but it hurts. And I was told not to back away when they bite so I just let it happen. She's biting hard enough where it's leaving bruises and marks. I bruise easily though.

Now that makes it sound like either I'm mistreating her or she's mean. She's not mean per say. But I don't get why she's biting me! This has been going on ever since I got her. I'll reach over to pet her and she'll grab my hand, like grip it and bite down. I get so upset with myself when she does this frown

So here I am again... asking for YOUR help. I'll take any suggestions. Hopefully we can get past this. I've heard so may success stories... Can mine be one of them?

I spoil her like crazy!

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #758326
03/31/09 05:51 PM
03/31/09 05:51 PM

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kardansma
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I'm kinda new to the whole sugar glider area and my male does that too. I've noticed when he first wakes up he isn't so aggressive so I take advantage of that time and give him little massages. Also when I get them out to play I do the sneak attack for petting so as not to give him the opportunity to bite right away. He seems to be mellowing out and not trying to bite as often. I've only had my pair since January so I'm no authority.

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #758351
03/31/09 06:17 PM
03/31/09 06:17 PM

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prettyinpink
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She really is a sweetie... at least I think she is. I love her so much it just makes me heart broken every time she bites me frown

It hurts and I hate looking at my hand seeing the bruises from her... just wondering why she's doing it. Like right now she's in her pouch and I can pet her... then she just decides she wants to bite usually when she's up. She's staring at me letting me pet her. She'll even curl up under my hand.

I just want to know how to make it stop. It's breaking my heart. frown

I hope she will change and I can make it stop. I just have to figure out how?

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #758376
03/31/09 06:48 PM
03/31/09 06:48 PM

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Zoey_Girl
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Zoey_Girl
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It takes time. Especially with an older glider. I got Zoey and she was nine months oop. The guy that had her never handled her. She was either in a bonding pouch or cage. She was not happy and it took me 6 months to get her stop biting. She got me on the shoulder once so bad that I have scars. When she finally started settling down a little I got her a mate. Ziggy must make her happy because she became sweet and loving very quickly after we put them together. He was sweet when we got him I guess he rubbed off on her.

You get out of a glider what you put in to them. If you give up so will they. I know you are getting discouraged but don't give up.

Something else I just thought of, sounds silly but, have you tried washing your hands with ivory soap? I read somewhere on here that they do not like that. I don't know if it works. I know that if I have handled food before i handled mine they will nip me.

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #758390
03/31/09 06:58 PM
03/31/09 06:58 PM

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prettyinpink
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Ivory soap... no I don't use that.

I'm not getting discouraged it just breaks my heart.

I got her from a breeder and he said he never knew her as a biter. I don't know how much 'out' time she got. But with lots of gliders I'm sure it's not as much as she's getting now. He had her since she was a baby.

It's not so much dealing with the bites it's just when she bites me it's breaking my heart. I don't know how to stop it. She has a cage mate... she's younger than her. I got Tinkerbell when she was ready and they were introduced the same day I got them... I just don't know how to make her stop. She's actually trying to hold me down to bite me. I just don't get it.

One night when I had them out, she was on top of their cage (in their room) and I was playing with Tinkerbell, she was gliding. I put my arm down... not knowing that Pixie was there - not on her or anything just by her and she bit me. It's not a nibble it's a bite. frown It's just so upsetting.

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #758402
03/31/09 07:12 PM
03/31/09 07:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,636
In paradise
hpyhwn2003 Offline
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Try licky treats (banana pudding or fruit yogurt)on the handle tip of a spoon. Offer a licky treat every few times you go to her cage. And don't grab her out of her cage for bonding time. Work on trust first. Look for past post on GC "pouch protective gliders" to learn more ways to gain your gliders trust. Bourbon worked with me and my Bobby and now he is the sweetest guy ever. I'm now working with Aries (bad name choice- God of War) who is a crabber and biter too. After just 2 weeks he still crabs but no longer bites hard, though if startled he will nip me. I'll PM you with more.

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: hpyhwn2003] #758403
03/31/09 07:13 PM
03/31/09 07:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,636
In paradise
hpyhwn2003 Offline
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Your PM limit has been reached so PM me please.

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: hpyhwn2003] #758409
03/31/09 07:19 PM
03/31/09 07:19 PM

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prettyinpink
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She's not a pouch protector though. She'll cuddle up and everything. That's why I'm saying she's weird. ohwell

She doesn't run away from me or anything like that. She just bites me when she feels like it. She's not a launcher.

In fact... I think she only bites when she's out of her pouch. I don't grab her. I NEVER grab her. I take the pouch out. She's the one that wants to cuddle... she'll come out of the pouch as soon as I set it on my lap and curl up under the blanket.

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #758416
03/31/09 07:22 PM
03/31/09 07:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,636
In paradise
hpyhwn2003 Offline
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That is different. Do you use licky treats? I know you said you spoil her but I've seen lickys work wonders.

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: hpyhwn2003] #758435
03/31/09 07:57 PM
03/31/09 07:57 PM

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Sqooky
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Both my girls are biters. They just like to taste everything, and Lilly tastes pretty hard sometimes. I have learned to just expect it that was I'm not going to pull away. I try to be consistent when she does it with making a hiss noise to let her know that it hurts. She always stops and looks at me when I do it. I'm throughly convinced she thinks that if she bites me yogart will come out.

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: hpyhwn2003] #758439
03/31/09 08:05 PM
03/31/09 08:05 PM

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ErichB
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Lickies? Sorry but I have to disagree I've talked to breeders about this and sure lickies stop biting...Well it limits it to your finger tips.

And banana pudding?! From everything I've read banana's are very bad for Suggies there is too much of a chemical in it...It starts with an 'M' I can't remember. But maybe because it's in pudding form that dilutes it?

But as I was saying from everything I've read and been told lickies make tip nipper's. Like my bestfriend's Glider Bo started nipping after she started Licky. I guess they just want to check if there's anything there!

Cute little guys.

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #758467
03/31/09 08:46 PM
03/31/09 08:46 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,035
Las Vegas, NV/Columbus, OH
DeeDancer Offline
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Giving licky treats from the end of a spoon can be used on gliders that aren't pouch protective, also. That is a biting technique, not necessarily a trust building technique. Trying that could still work for you, Erica, especially since it seems that nothing else has worked for you.

Erich, giving licky treats is an awesome trust building tool. It teaches your gliders that your hands bring yummies-nothing to be scared of. I honestly don't believe that using licky treats create biters OR limit bites to fingertips. Gliders bite when the food runs out, so if you have a glider that bites when the treat is all gone, don't let the treat run out. Give three licks, and then redip your finger. Don't let them lick long enough to bite you. Eventually they will learn that they do not need to bite in order to get more good stuff.

I'm surprised you are concerned with the banana and not the high sugar content of the pudding. In response to both of those, occasional banana will not kill your glider. I wouldn't use it in a diet because of its terrible Ca:P ratio (and I'm not sure if there are other issues with it when fed long term?), but as a treat it should be fine. Chocolate cake certainly isn't GOOD for me, but I eat it every once in a while as a treat for myself and it's no big deal.




~Deanna~
Chinchillas: Luke, Yoda, and Pronk
Gliders: Nika, Ranger, and DeeGee

(702)250-5236
Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #758474
03/31/09 08:53 PM
03/31/09 08:53 PM
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Posts: 3,843
Lisle, Illinois
SugareeErin Offline
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Originally Posted By: ErichB
Lickies? Sorry but I have to disagree I've talked to breeders about this and sure lickies stop biting...Well it limits it to your finger tips.

But as I was saying from everything I've read and been told lickies make tip nipper's. Like my bestfriend's Glider Bo started nipping after she started Licky. I guess they just want to check if there's anything there!

Cute little guys.


Actually licky treats do train them not to bite, I know this from personal experience agree Gliders naturally will bit when the licky treat runs out, like they bite to get sap in the wild, the trick is to be ready with the reload. Only allow a few licks at a time.

If you think about it it makes perfect sense, give your gliders a piece of dried fruit by hand and they will open their mouth and bite it to take it. Same with mealings. You are teaching them when they see your hand it's time to open up for a yummy treat. And fingers look just the same as atreat to them when they are excited lol. By giving licy treats you train them to lick, so when the see your hands they will lick you!



:leu: Sugaree Gliders :rtmo:


Simba, Nala, Rain, Snow & Sugaree

Shadowdancer, Sugar Magnolia, Sunshine Daydream, Winter, Twinkle, Twilight, Everlette, Sparkle, Polar Bear, Indigo & Willow








Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: hpyhwn2003] #758500
03/31/09 09:11 PM
03/31/09 09:11 PM

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prettyinpink
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prettyinpink
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Ok guys! THANKS! Keep them coming. I'm reading these in order... so here it goes.

Originally Posted By: hpyhwn2003
That is different. Do you use licky treats? I know you said you spoil her but I've seen lickys work wonders.


I've NEVER used lickily treats. I know that some people before said to me maybe she thinks that treats will come out. But I haven't given her any for that reason. I'm terrified to do lickily treats. I DO give her treats but not like apple sauce and yogurt. So Sqooky... I don't think that's the problem ohwell

Erich,
Yes... I'm afraid that using lickily treats would entice her more to bite. So I'm against this method. I'm sorry guys for those that recommend it but... just for me I personally would prefer not to.

Deanna,
Hmm... I personally think that by giving her lickily treats it would entice her to bite me. Because I believe that she would think my finger pours out treats... If you get what I mean.
Do I really have a trust issue with her? Because she'll snuggle up and everything with me. She's not scared of me or anything. It's just the biting.

Erin,
Like I said before... I'm a little skeptical of this 'lickily treats' idea...

Thanks so much guys for all the ideas hug2 Keep them coming. I really appreciate your help.

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: SugareeErin] #758501
03/31/09 09:13 PM
03/31/09 09:13 PM

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ErichB
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ErichB
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As they say you learn new things everyday!

So the trick is to 'reload' your finger tips I'll keep that in mind and pass it on. But yes I'm worried about the whole pudding thing in general I was thinking about the sugar levels...buut I think it slipped as I was typing. Ops!

I was aware in giving treats from your hand they learn your hand is a good thing, I wasn't sure where I sat on the bench when it came to lickies though but thanks again and I'll keep it in mind.

smile Thanks.

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #758505
03/31/09 09:16 PM
03/31/09 09:16 PM

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prettyinpink
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prettyinpink
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I wanted to add... What's the difference between giving them treats from my hand vs my finger? I'm using my hands to give her treats to tell her my hand means good things.
I'm just wondering how lickily treats would make a difference?

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #758634
04/01/09 12:30 AM
04/01/09 12:30 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 1,048
Londonderry, NH
sweetReaper Offline
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Posts: 1,048
Londonderry, NH
My girls have been doing great but just tonight, my girl Chihiro has started biting e again like CRAZY. She is so calm and sweet yet she bites me all the time (no lunging or anything) She will snuggle with me and run around on me and the next thing I know my neck gets bitten, my feet get bitten, my hands and arms get bitten... It confuses me so much. For about a week things were great and she never bit me... Now she has gotten back into it and even the "PSST" sound that worked like magic before does not work. She hardly ever crabs and is so sweet... so I don't really understand. And I am POSITIVE that I do not smell like anything or have anything on me that smells... Maybe it is the weather or something.. Or I just had a lucky week haha


Sarah is currently a slave to:

Joe <3 - boyfriend
Kasu, Chihiro, Haku, Io - the suggies :bb: :grey: :grey: :rtmo:
Miki :rbridge: You are greatly missed <3
Fuuko, Rin, Hinata - the ratties
Two super cute axolotls

"It can't rain all the time" - Eric Draven
Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: sweetReaper] #758662
04/01/09 02:26 AM
04/01/09 02:26 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414
Minneapolis, MN
wildlifeangel Offline
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Minneapolis, MN
I use honey as a licky treat. I limit it very much... I have only used 2-3 Tablespoons in 4 months. But for Adam, who has a problem with biting, I let his mate, Eve lick my finger first, then I watch his mouth VERY carefully to see what his intent is... (if he wants to bite, he bares his teeth slightly and opens his mouth more.) If he looks like he wants to lick, I allow him a couple licks, and if he tries to bite, or looks like he may, I pull my finger away from him.

After his abcess ordeal, he was very pouch protective, and bit a lot. But I learned to use the small bottle of honey for him... that way if he tries to bite it, it's hard plastic... but he learns that it is not pleasant to bite for the treat, but if he licks, he gets more.
Once he got used to the bottle, I worked up to feeding it from my finger. I trust my gliders to lick my fingers clean and not bite.

I also have disassociated the mealworms with my hand. I give them mealies as a treat ONLY with a tweezers. We had a painful incident where Oakley got overexcited about the mealie and bit my finger quite hard.

Since the only treats I use my hands for are licky, they learn that there is no benefit to biting my hands. And they get the things to bite with a tweezers. This also allows me to stick my fingers through the side of the cage without fear.

I don't reccomend using a LOT of licky treats, I only give them a couple drops each per day.

I also use the Priscilla price diet, so the mealworms that we use as treats can be abundant because they need a certian amount in the diet, and they are just given in treat form. Priscilla's also does not use honey (HPW does), so it's an extra special treat for them... everyone goes nuts over the honey.


Nadine

Adam-Eve
Starsky-Bianca
Gabriel-Charity
Barrington-Bailey
Travis-Rose-Ruby
Justice-Mercy
Natalia-Carmella-Cayden
Minka-Marco
Reagan-Jocelynn
Donnovin-Selina
Kaluah-Keeko-Emily-Monty-Lexy-Kevin-Raven-Skeeter
:rtmo: :leu: :bb: :cream: :plat:

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Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: wildlifeangel] #758704
04/01/09 08:06 AM
04/01/09 08:06 AM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,087
Manitowoc, WI
BeckiT Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
BeckiT  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

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Posts: 16,087
Manitowoc, WI
I have one who is bonded to me, but LOVES to give me love bites. She's been this way since I got her a year ago. She's not mean, not pouch protective, in fact she's a bra baby, but she is constantly nipping when she's on me. Licky treats have helped a great deal (I generally use yogurt), but, I think some gliders just explore by mouth more than others and it becomes a habit that you have to learn to either predict or live with wink

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: BeckiT] #758705
04/01/09 08:17 AM
04/01/09 08:17 AM

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Sqooky
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Sqooky
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I don't think she really thinks you are filled with yougart. When I was working with bourbon she had me give licky treats to Pogo & Lilly. Start with the end of a wooden spoon and when they don't bite that move onto your finger. I really didnt care if she bit me or not so I started with my finger. The trick though is to let them lick once or twice and then take your finger away and turn your back to them. if they lick you when you don't have licky treats you are also supposed to take your hand away.

The goal is to show them that biting makes you stay and licking makes you go away.

While Pogo and Lilly still bite, I assure you the licky treats have done wonders. It is much less or an attack in fear and more of a "Mom your hand is in my way?"

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #759120
04/01/09 10:18 PM
04/01/09 10:18 PM

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prettyinpink
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She's not a pouch protective glider though... That's why I'm saying she doesn't launch. She'll curl up and everything... she prefers to be out on me most of the time than in her pouch.

She was on my stomach today and she decided to try to groom me through my shirt... I'm VERY ticklish and I started laughing she kept doing it then bit down HARD... She then out of no where did it again like three or four times. Now I have about five bite marks on my stomach frown

She bit my hand about five times today but that's because I was trying to put her back in the pouch when she didn't want to go in. She was REALLY weird today and wanted to be up instead of sleeping so I said no or you're going in your cage and she bit down hard like four times. And I put her in her cage.
That's the only time I was ok with her bites because I knew she was upset.

I just want it to stop. And I'm WAY too scared to use lickily treats. She's already bitten me really hard while I give her mealies.

I just want this biting to stop frown It's making me so upset and I'm getting so frustrated thinking I'm upsetting her or something. It's tearing me to shreds.

She's NOT a crabber, or a launcher. She doesn't launch. She never does. That's why I'm wondering what's going on?

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #759157
04/01/09 11:20 PM
04/01/09 11:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,035
Las Vegas, NV/Columbus, OH
DeeDancer Offline
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DeeDancer  Offline
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Las Vegas, NV/Columbus, OH
Originally Posted By: prettyinpink
Deanna,
Hmm... I personally think that by giving her lickily treats it would entice her to bite me. Because I believe that she would think my finger pours out treats... If you get what I mean.
Do I really have a trust issue with her? Because she'll snuggle up and everything with me. She's not scared of me or anything. It's just the biting.


Erica,

I do think you have a trust issue with her, but its not the kind you're thinking of. I think YOU don't trust HER and she's picking up on it. I strongly believe that gliders pick up on human emotions. I think that until you learn to trust her, she will continue to bite you.

I have a question. If she wanted to be up today, why didn't you let her be up? Did you use your hand to force her back into the pouch/cage? I'm assuming you must have used your hand, otherwise she wouldn't have been able to bite it.

I use licky treats with my former biters and they do not think my finger is a treat machine. I think someone already said this, but here's the idea with licky treats. When your hand brings licky treats, then your glider realizes that good things come when she licks your hand. When your hand brings bitey treats (mealies, yogies, etc.) then she learns that good things come from your hand when she bites. You even said that she already bit you when you were giving her mealies.

Honestly, what do you have to lose by trying licky treats? Your reason for not trying licky treats is because you feel that it teaches gliders to bite, but yours is already biting, so even if your theory is correct nothing will change once you try lickies. I think that you are hesitant to try lickies because you fear your glider's bites. If it makes you feel better, start with the end of a wooden spoon like was discussed before, or you can try sucking up some licky in a 3 inch section of a straw (but if she bites this, go back to the spoon idea). If you start out with your fingers, since you do feel that she trusts you, make sure to do three licks and then redip so that the licky doesn't run out. When you do this, be sure you feel CONFIDENT and you TRUST her or she will pick up on your fear.

It seems to me that these are MOSTLY love bites. I say this because of when you said that she was grooming you a little too hard and it turned into a bite-fest. I think you need to deter her from grooming you, as this is teaching her to use her teeth. You may be hesitant to do this because you might feel that grooming is a good thing because it means she loves you, but I promise that she can show her love in other ways (like licks smile ) You have already experienced that grooming in sensitive areas is painful, and gliders have no sense of where on your body it is okay and not okay to groom, so you need to keep her from doing it at all.

Now, I say MOST of the bites are love bites because it is pretty clear (you even said it) that she bit you today because you were making her do something she did not want to do. With the exception of when her health is in jeopardy (putting her in an e-collar, pushing liquids, etc.) I feel that you should NEVER make a glider to something it doesn't want to do. That is something that betrays trust. This includes making her go back in her cage or pouch when she does not want to. You know why she bit you today, so please try not to put her in a situation like that again. If you need her to go in her cage, offer her cage or leave a mealie in her cage somewhere and show it to her so that she stays there to eat it. Don't force her.

I want you to try to watch her body language BEFORE she bites you. There is something that she does every time right before she bites. An example that I have heard many times is that someone here has a glider who lifts its front paw up right before it bites. That's its warning sign for the owner to back off. My glider lifts her head up just slightly. Sometimes it is something so small that only the owner would notice...but that's going to be your key to keeping her from biting you. Once you identify what her sign is, you will know when to change your action so that she does not bite. This is how you learn your glider on a different level and you can tell what she is about to do before she even does it.

I know that was long, but hopefully it was helpful. Please keep us updated on how things are going.


~Deanna~
Chinchillas: Luke, Yoda, and Pronk
Gliders: Nika, Ranger, and DeeGee

(702)250-5236
Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: DeeDancer] #759170
04/01/09 11:54 PM
04/01/09 11:54 PM

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prettyinpink
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prettyinpink
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Deanna,

I did let her be up the only reason I was forcing her is because I was downstairs watching tv and I had her on me... She can't be out down there because the kitties are down there. So I had to put her in her cage. I have no problem her being up.
Yes, I had to force her into the pouch. It hurts me when I force her to do things that she doesn't like but I had to. I gave her a nice treat to tell her I was sorry for putting her in the cage but she can't be out right now. I NEVER force my babies to do anything and it hurt me to put her in the cage because I love them so much I would've let her out if I wasn't busy at the moment... The family was watching TV. If we weren't I would've let her out in her room.

Maybe you are right... Maybe I'm the problem and I don't trust her. But I thought I did.

Thanks for making me understand the lickily treats. I understand it completly now. I'm going to see if I have any lickilies around here. We have some honey so I'll try that tonight.

YES! She does put her head up. But she's putting her head up to bite, as in the only notification she gives me is she moves her head towards me. But I'm not doing anything. She's biting me for no reason. Usually it's something simple as me just wanting to pet her. I don't get it.
I DO have time to back away since like I said she's not a launcher. But people told me not to back away because she'll learn to keep doing that to make me go away.

Thanks so much Deanna! Hopefully we can get through this smile Don't worry about it being too long. It was perfect. And thanks so much. You have no idea how much this means to me smile

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #759200
04/02/09 05:56 AM
04/02/09 05:56 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,035
Las Vegas, NV/Columbus, OH
DeeDancer Offline
Glider Guardian
DeeDancer  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,035
Las Vegas, NV/Columbus, OH
Erica,

I am going to be very blunt here, because I feel that it is the best way to share this information. I want to say that as this is the internet, it is very difficult to convey emotion and tone of voice, so if any of this comes across as being rude, it is definitely not meant to be. You are asking for help, and I think that in order for any of us to help your glider, this conversation needs to happen.

First of all, if anyone on this board is going to be able to help you and Pixie, you're going to have to be completely honest with us. Yes, 100% honest. I'm going to give you some examples of things that you have said that are not 100% honest so that we can talk about what is true and what is not. We have to get to the bottom of what you are actually doing with Pixie in order to help you two.

In your post right above me, you said "Yes, I had to force her into the pouch." promptly followed by "I NEVER force my babies to do anything." You can see that these statements are contradictory. I also looked at your gallery. I noticed two pictures of Pixie on the first page where you are holding her down. In the second one that I'm talking about, you can see that Pixie's front feet are back as though she just finished trying to propel herself forward to get out from under your hand. There is fear in her eyes there. That is a prime example of forcing a glider to do something it does not want to.

So, when you said that you never force your gliders to do anything, that was not entirely true. We HAVE to be honest with each other here Erica or no one will be able to give you accurate advice.

Tyler said that Pixie did not bite when she was with him. When she got to you, she started biting. Now you have to ask yourself what you are doing different than Tyler that makes her feel the need to act this way.

You said she bites you for "no reason", but then went on to say that she bites you when you try to pet her. That's not "no reason". That's her telling you that she isn't comfortable with what you're doing. You've got to respect her teeth. When she uses them, she is trying to tell you something. You have gotten some great advice...OtteMom gave you fantastic advice in your last biting thread, Wildlifeangel gave some very clear, useful advice in this thread (as well as others).

It all comes down to learning Pixie's body language. You have to work up to being able to pet her by earning her trust, and to do that you have to trust her as well. Don't hold her down or on you if she comes out of the pouch during the day, even in the kitty room. Just walk to your room and let her settle down.

I know that you desperately want to hold her and love on her and you want her to love you back. I've definitely been there. But love comes with trust and trust is something that you have to earn. You aren't going to earn Pixie's trust by being forceful with her. This is something that my girl Nika and I had to learn the hard way, and for your sake and Pixie's sake I hope you two don't go that route.

You're a smart girl, I know that you understand forum dynamics. You don't want anyone to see you as a bad glider mommy, so you are saying what people want to hear-"No, I never force my glider into anything," "No, I'm not getting frustrated," "Yes, she trusts me." It's important to realize that everyone makes mistakes. If I told you some of the things that I did to my Nika when I first got her, you would feel sick to your stomach. Does that make me a bad glider mom? No, I don't think so, but only because I was able to recognize that I was wronging her and change MY behavior. My glider's behavior changed when I was willing to change MY behavior. Admitting that you are just dying to have her love you and perhaps being a bit impatient about it is not saying anything more than ALL of us here have felt and a LOT of us have acted on. We've been where you have. We understand and we don't think less of you for it hug2

I don't doubt your love for Pixie AT ALL. I do feel that in order to gain her trust, you will have to exhibit patience. I KNOW it is hard, trust me! But it WILL pay off in the end.

If you want to talk to me about any of this off of the forum, my phone number is in my signature and my email address is jones.2739@osu.edu hug2


~Deanna~
Chinchillas: Luke, Yoda, and Pronk
Gliders: Nika, Ranger, and DeeGee

(702)250-5236
Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: DeeDancer] #759521
04/02/09 06:32 PM
04/02/09 06:32 PM

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Originally Posted By: DeeDancer

First of all, if anyone on this board is going to be able to help you and Pixie, you're going to have to be completely honest with us. Yes, 100% honest. I'm going to give you some examples of things that you have said that are not 100% honest so that we can talk about what is true and what is not. We have to get to the bottom of what you are actually doing with Pixie in order to help you two.


I'm perfectly fine with you being blunt. I've said nothing but the truth on here and I will continue to do so. I appreciate your help and would never read it in a bad way. smile
I'm sorry that you think that I was being dishonest but maybe I can explain why maybe you feel this way... maybe you read it wrong.

Originally Posted By: DeeDancer

In your post right above me, you said "Yes, I had to force her into the pouch." promptly followed by "I NEVER force my babies to do anything." You can see that these statements are contradictory. I also looked at your gallery. I noticed two pictures of Pixie on the first page where you are holding her down. In the second one that I'm talking about, you can see that Pixie's front feet are back as though she just finished trying to propel herself forward to get out from under your hand. There is fear in her eyes there. That is a prime example of forcing a glider to do something it does not want to.


Ok, first of let me say I have NEVER held ANY of my gliders down. NEVER I would NEVER do that.
Those pictures of me are of her curled up in my hand, she is not being forced in any way. The other picture is of me petting her. There is no pressure on her what so ever.
I don't know what feet one you are talking about. Could you please tell me which one.


Originally Posted By: DeeDancer
So, when you said that you never force your gliders to do anything, that was not entirely true. We HAVE to be honest with each other here Erica or no one will be able to give you accurate advice.

I told you specifically that was the ONLY time that I have forced her. I've been so honest it's not even funny.
I said it hurt me to put her back into the pouch. She didn't
want to be asleep at that moment so I put her in her cage where I put her favorite toy and gave her treats so she'd be ok. I don't FORCE her to do things.

Originally Posted By: DeeDancer
Tyler said that Pixie did not bite when she was with him. When she got to you, she started biting. Now you have to ask yourself what you are doing different than Tyler that makes her feel the need to act this way.

Like I said before you/we have no clue how long he even played with her. He's a breeder so he has a ton of gliders. I'm probably spending more time than he did with her. I believe he said that's the reason why he's re homing her.

Originally Posted By: DeeDancer
It all comes down to learning Pixie's body language. You have to work up to being able to pet her by earning her trust, and to do that you have to trust her as well. Don't hold her down or on you if she comes out of the pouch during the day, even in the kitty room. Just walk to your room and let her settle down.

I'm NOT holding her down. Where are you getting this. If you knew me you'd not be saying that. I never have held her down. I only forced her back into the pouch ONCE and that was for her safety.
There are three cats down stairs... what was I suppose to do? Let her do whatever? I don't get what you want me to do. Because I can't let her out down there period. She wanted to play or whatever she wanted and I let her do it in her room. If I wasn't with the family I would've let her play.

Originally Posted By: DeeDancer
I know that you desperately want to hold her and love on her and you want her to love you back. I've definitely been there. But love comes with trust and trust is something that you have to earn. You aren't going to earn Pixie's trust by being forceful with her. This is something that my girl Nika and I had to learn the hard way, and for your sake and Pixie's sake I hope you two don't go that route.

Again, where are you getting this? I'm NOT holding her down. This REALLY hurts that you'd even say something like that. ANYONE that knows me, knows how I treat my pets. And holding them down I would never do.
She comes out on her own, curled up under the blanket in my hand. I'm NOT forcing her to do it... she does it on her own.

Originally Posted By: DeeDancer
You're a smart girl, I know that you understand forum dynamics. You don't want anyone to see you as a bad glider mommy, so you are saying what people want to hear-"No, I never force my glider into anything," "No, I'm not getting frustrated," "Yes, she trusts me." It's important to realize that everyone makes mistakes. If I told you some of the things that I did to my Nika when I first got her, you would feel sick to your stomach. Does that make me a bad glider mom? No, I don't think so, but only because I was able to recognize that I was wronging her and change MY behavior. My glider's behavior changed when I was willing to change MY behavior. Admitting that you are just dying to have her love you and perhaps being a bit impatient about it is not saying anything more than ALL of us here have felt and a LOT of us have acted on. We've been where you have. We understand and we don't think less of you for it hug2

You really don't understand. I'm NOT lying. This is really frustrating me that you think I'm doing all these things to her which are not true.
I've never held her down. I pushed her back into the pouch for her SAFETY. Period. That's it. I don't force her to be held, I don't hold her down. I don't get where you are getting these things.
ANYONE that knows me like I said before would be amazed that you even said that. I let my pets control me. I would never do something like that to her. I don't do anything except hiss when she bites me. I'm torn to shreds and my heart is broken but I take them because I'm trying real hard for her to understand how much I care about her.

Thanks for the help... I did do the honey on the finger tips last night. Tinkerbell loved it. LOL. Pixie licked some but only a little bit. I don't know if she likes honey... But she did lick which was good. I'll try it again in a little bit. smile

Keep the ideas coming smile Thanks everyone hug2

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #759533
04/02/09 06:50 PM
04/02/09 06:50 PM

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Sorry if that came off mean... Didn't mean it.

But when people say I'm forcing my animals to do something I get protective. I care a lot about them, so much so that you don't understand if you knew me. I would never do something like that. And I don't understand why you'd think that I'm forcing her down.
I can't believe you would even think that in those pictures I'm doing so. It breaks my heart that someone would say such a thing. frown

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #759581
04/02/09 08:12 PM
04/02/09 08:12 PM
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Originally Posted By: prettyinpink
She's biting hard enough where it's leaving bruises and marks. I bruise easily though.
Erica, I couldn't help but notice your description of the bites from your first post in this thread. Has Pixie ever drawn blood? Now THAT would be a biter, which I know from personal experience, several times I might add! grin She may just be letting you know that you are in her space. Their teeth and their crabbing are their only defense. She is an exotic animal, not a puppy and you may be expecting too much from her at this point in your bonding. Even a kitty can be loving and affectionate, then WHAM! Back off, they are done!

It's obvious that you are doing your best to be a good glider mom, and that you have spoiled babies. I watched your post count sky-rocket into the thousands while researching BEFORE you even got your gliders! Just try to relax, enjoy your babies, and focus on the progress you have made. Deanna is trying really hard to help you, and WANTS you to succeed. Work with the suggestions you have been given. They come from experience and I'm sure they aren't meant to hurt your feelings.


PS - I have TWO spoiled dragons ... BEARDIES ROCK!


~Nancy~
http://www.derbycitygliders.com

:grey: Jackson/Izzie, Lukas/Leilah, Mizuki/Elektra, Oliver/Ava, Ramon/Paloma, Charming/Snow
Rest of the menagerie: dogs, cats, corn snake, bearded dragon
Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: nancy1202] #759613
04/02/09 08:58 PM
04/02/09 08:58 PM

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Thank you Nancy. I would never take anything wrong from Deanna... it just hurts when someone says something like that to me about my gliders. I take everything she says into consideration because I really appreciate her.

She has only drawn blood once. I had my hand on the pouch (holding it).. wasn't paying attention to her and it was really dark in the room. I was doing something with Tinkerbell (this was like a week after I got them) and she bit me. That's when she drew blood. It's only been once though.

I'm trying really hard with her and I would never give up on my babies. I don't consider them like a cat. I know they are exotic, Kirby is exotic... even though they are not the same hopefully you get what I mean by that. I'm reading everything you guys have to say and I really appreciate all your help. smile

P.S. LOL. Kirby is VERY spoiled. He's got his own bed and gets tucked in every night. He's potty trained and gets bathed daily. He's my baby. (I have pics in my gallery of him wink )

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #759936
04/03/09 02:14 PM
04/03/09 02:14 PM
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Erica, I do hope deanna and the rest here can help you.. just to explain some things here for you though..


"learn your gliders body language", she will talk to you, it is up to you to listen to her.

ears,watch the positioning of her ears.

eyes, look into her eyes, they will speak volumes to you

nose. watch for signs of her being stressed..

any muscle twitches and slight shivers

movements of the head and mouth (your words, she turns her head before she bites) slowly move your hand out of her way, this is her sign to you what she is going to do next.

you are more relaxed with tinkerbell and seem afraid of pixie, maybe not because of the bite, but at maybe her getting far from you. this is evident in the pics in your gallery.

you have 2 pictures on your gallery page on the front page with your hand on top of the glider. in both cases the glider is awake but the first glider is labeled as pixie, when in reality it is tinkerbell, her ears are more relaxed as her eyes are as well. the second pic of your hand on the glider is definitely pixie. her ears are in "half mode, meaning she feels a bit weary, leary, uneasy. (this can also be seen in the pics of tinkerbell on the 2nd page when you were playing with her, her body language shows she is a little apprehensive. look at her ears, her eyes, and her body movement, although she was having a good time, she was still a bit scared.

BUT.... you are less afraid around tinkerbell, far more relaxed, far more trusting of her,

although tinkerbell is coming around and learning to trust you, Pixie still seems like she is the glider that wants to go and be on the move a lot. she probably likes to be left alone more.

do not take pixie into places where if she wants, she can not come out to explore, play when SHE wants to. this is where the trust on both parts come in, if you are nervous about her coming out, or moving freely on you, she will sense that, if you don't listen to her body language, she will bite you plain and simple.

Deanna said respect her teeth, don't put anything in front of her mouth, know that those teeth will bite, IF she feels she needs to, notice I said needs, not wants. gliders will only bite if they feel the NEED.

as deanna said, start looking closer at what you are doing with her, find out what you are doing that she MAY perceive as a threat to her. she only has to think it is a threat, not that it is, but if she THINKS it is, then it is.

I do hope you let others help you here, they want you to have a relationship with your gliders, but it will be up to you.

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: Bourbon] #759975
04/03/09 03:26 PM
04/03/09 03:26 PM

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OMG! Now that I look at that picture I DID label it wrong... That is Tink! Oops... I'll have to relabel that one. I took one of Pixie right after that... I must have not of uploaded it. THANK YOU! I kept looking over and over to it and I'm like I think that's Tink...

I'm going to upload some more old pics of my babies.

I'm not ignoring anyone bourbon I'm listing to everything everyone has to say.

Now I'm trying so hard to watch her body language... but I don't see any hints she's giving me. I'm trying really hard but I don't see them. She's not tilting her head or moving her eyes.

What does this mean "but at maybe her getting far from you"
I think you may be right that I trust Tinkerbell more than Pixie. But I feel as though I trust them both. I LOVE them both... How do I stop that?

Ok looking at the other page... OOOH ears are in 'half mode' ok got that now. YUP she was scared. She didn't like being on there. I put her up there because she kept standing by me looking up there as if she wanted up. I put her up there and she was scared but started to like it. My dad was also in the room... so it wasn't just me.

Yes... as I recall Tyler told me that she was by herself (lone cage mate) and wanted her to be loved more. He did put her in with a male before he got adopted... then she got two cage mates like a few weeks before I got her. But as I recall she's been by herself and with the ones that need to be adopted. frown

I can't take Pixie where I want? I like taking them downstairs with me because they both come out and snuggle in my sweater pocket... Tinkerbell doesn't like to be without Pixie... Don't know how to fix that... can you?

I keep looking at her. I'm just softly petting her being super gentle and she bites me?

It's just upsetting me that you guys are saying it's all me frown You don't understand how much devotion I have for these guys. I love them so much and would do anything. I have no problem with deanna and I'm willing to work with her smile But when she basically says I'm being mean to her I'm going to get defensive. Again, I listen to what everyone has to say. And I'm glad everyone is trying to help me!

Thank you Bourbon... Hopefully we can get through this hug2

Tinkerbell just made progress like two or three weeks ago she started liking being on me and it made me cry the first time she did it because I was so happy. She's starting to come out and snuggle on me more often, usually only Pixie wants to come out and snuggle and Tinkerbell is very wherry.

Pixie is VERY curious of everything... she doesn't seem scared of anything. She was like that when I first got her. She came out of the pouch to see what I was doing when I was at Tylers hotel room. And Tinkerbell stayed in the pouch, she was FREAKED. We had to chase Tinkerbell down because she jumped out of my hands then out of Tyler's hands. I felt so bad for her. Pixie was just checking everything out.
Then when I got them in the car in their little cage Pixie was out checking everything out. Not Tinkerbell.
Like I said before Tyler told me I'd have to work with Tinkerbell and not Pixie.

When I first talked to Tyler about gliders I said I wanted to young ones. He said I have this very sweet older female if you are interested. I was so excited, and he knows how thrilled I was. I only wanted to young ones to start off with but when he told me about Pixie I had to have her. So I don't know if he was just trying to get me to buy her (which I HIGHLY doubt) or she misses him... OR which I think is the most likely he doesn't take her out very often and she's not used to getting so much attention. He has so many gliders and he definitely wouldn't be able to give her as much attention as I do.

Anyways sorry for the rant. I DO love her a lot. I hope you guys don't think oh she's just another glider that she got with Tinkerbell that she doesn't really care for. I DON'T... trust me if you knew me you wouldn't even think to say that. I love her a lot and I wouldn't write this post if I didn't and spend this much time trying to figure it out.

I really hope I can make it stop frown Is it possible? It's just she seems that she likes me... she'll curl up in my hand just like the pic of Tinkerbell that's why I thought it was her... But then like if I put my hand wrong when she's curled up she bites. Or if she wants to curl up and I'm doing something she'll bite me like HEY I'm here! Lemme sleep! She's confusing me.
She'll let me pet her then other times she won't. I don't get what I'm doing?

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #760011
04/03/09 05:02 PM
04/03/09 05:02 PM
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okay Erica,

Quote:
frown You don't understand how much devotion I have for these guys. I love them so much and would do anything. I have no problem with deanna and I'm willing to work with her smile But when she basically says I'm being mean to her I'm going to get defensive. Again, I listen to what everyone has to say. And I'm glad everyone is trying to help me!


I guess this is where I am going to start. because this is the most important change you need to make.. please, please don't think defensive, she didn't say you were being mean.. what she did say is that in a nutshell..

Quote:
" It's important to realize that everyone makes mistakes. If I told you some of the things that I did to my Nika when I first got her, you would feel sick to your stomach. Does that make me a bad glider mom? No, I don't think so, but only because I was able to recognize that I was wronging her and change MY behavior. My glider's behavior changed when I was willing to change MY behavior. Admitting that you are just dying to have her love you and perhaps being a bit impatient about it is not saying anything more than ALL of us here have felt and a LOT of us have acted on. We've been where you have. We understand and we don't think less of you for it hug2


this pretty much sums everything up.. we all have been there, we all wanted our gliders to love us, just as much as we love them, and when we first start out, we sometimes don't realize what it is we do that affects our gliders behaviors and actions.

In order to make the changes in our gliders take place we have to start by being totally honest with ourselves first.

ask your self these questions.

do I love my glider?
do I want my glider to be happy?
do I think that my glider would be happy if I could carry her around all the time?
do I think my glider is unhappy by herself?
do I think that I can get my glider to love me, if I carry her, pet her hold and cuddle with her?
do I want my glider to love me as much as I love her?

the big question.....

Will I do anything to make my glider love me?

these questions with the exception of one is generally answered yes. and when we think about these questions, sometimes we don't realize that those questions are almost always based on how YOU feel and what YOU think.

Quote:

I can't take Pixie where I want? I like taking them downstairs with me because they both come out and snuggle in my sweater pocket... Tinkerbell doesn't like to be without Pixie... Don't know how to fix that... can you?


you can, when she is ready, but as above this is what YOU want, she is a playtime glider, she loves to explore, that is where your trust building should start.

IF she is not accustomed to be held, petted, handled as often as you are doing it, then she may know how to react to that attention. and she may be letting you know.

Deanna is going to come in and start a process with you, but before she does, she has to know in your heart, you won't get defensive, because it will not accomplish anything. so no defenses.. read listen, put yourself in your gliders place. and that is step 2. step one is realizing that for the behavior to change, that we as owners also need to change our behaviors, as deanna said, when we change, they start responding differently.

the first thing we try to point out is the reactions we see, and the probabilities of things that could be happening.. things that are causing the glider to react the way they do. when Deanna gets done, I think then you will understand, but the first thing step 1. is being receptive. Looking first honestly.. at the things we as owners are doing. and why we are doing it. most of the time, it is because that is what WE THINK that is what the glider wants, needs and craves. when in essence it is more about what WE want, what WE need and what WE crave.

this is evident in the words you say when you speak of Tyler not spending time with her, so you think in your head, I will do what she never had, because I think that is what she needs. but in reality, it may not be what she wants, but more about what YOU want. you WANT to give her that attention, you want her to have the attention that YOU THINK she needs, you feel you NEED to do this to make her happy.
you crave the love from her, that you are giving to her.

I hope this all makes sense, and when this is understood, you will be ready to move forward with her.

the question to you is... are you ready??

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: Bourbon] #760041
04/03/09 06:41 PM
04/03/09 06:41 PM

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Yup I'm ready.

That last part I completly understood. I guess I think she'd like having attention when in reality she's not used to it and it's [censored] her out. Is that what you're saying?

I promise I won't get defensive with Deanna... I appreciate her a lot. I hope you understand that. I never meant to be mean to her if she thinks I was. Because I read that post over and over before I responded but when someone says I'm not telling the truth and I'm only telling you guys what you want to hear that's hurtful. Sorry... but that's the truth I've said nothing but the truth.

do I love my glider? YES!
do I want my glider to be happy? YES!
do I think that my glider would be happy if I could carry her around all the time? I don't know... She seems to like it. But I could be wrong.
do I think my glider is unhappy by herself? I don't know. She's used to being by herself. Everything has changed for her... she got put in with Tinkerbell the same day I got her and then I came in... I'm sure she likes company.
do I think that I can get my glider to love me, if I carry her, pet her hold and cuddle with her? No
do I want my glider to love me as much as I love her? YES!

Now before we start this... Can you please explain what's going to happen?

I want to tell you guys I don't want this to change Tinkerbell's behavior in any way.
I was also wondering... maybe I should make a new post about this. Can I take one out at a time so Tinkerbell isn't so freaked out without Pixie? Or is that just something I have to deal with? And vis versa would Pixie be better with me if I took her out alone?

Thanks so much guys! hug2 And like I said before deanna I respect you... so please don't think of ignoring this post because I don't. I DO want to hear your advice. I just don't want to hear you saying I'm lying.

Thanks again hug2 I really appreciate it.

OH! I picked up two different lickily treats today... Baby food was all I could find without added things. They had yogurt but it was a huge container and they can't eat all of that.
I got apple sauce and pear sauce. Is that ok? I still have honey. I'm up for more suggestions. I also got Pixies favorite treats -Pineapple but that's a bite treat.

I'm ready! grin

Wanted to add... They are NOT on me all day. I let them have their 6-8 hours of non interrupted sleep before taking them out. They are usually just on my lap sleeping the whole time they are out while I'm on the computer.

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #760407
04/04/09 01:47 PM
04/04/09 01:47 PM

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Wanted to add while I'm waiting for Deanna to give me my bonding tips or whatever you mean Bourbon smile

I was watching her 'body language' last night... I DID notice that she would put her ears in 'half mode' when she'd come out of the pouch... I wouldn't pet her. So I gave her her treat and her ears perked up so I pet her softly. I kept watching her vs Tinkerbell and I noticed that Tink doesn't seem to put her ears in 'half mode' even when she seems scared. So is this 'half mode' mean she's mad? Or... because I don't think it means she's scared otherwise Tink would do it when she's scared...
Hmmm...

I tried the lickily treats... frown Pixie only took a little bit. Tink took way more than her. They don't seem to like it... I'll have to check the other grocery stores to see if they have good small yogurt that I can try... BUT she does lick every time she does it.

The difference between Tink and Pixie when I give them bite treats is Tinkerbell makes sure (mealies) she doesn't bite me... she goes up real slow and takes it away with either her mouth or her hand. Pixie just YANKS it hard with her mouth like I'm going to take it away if she's not fast enough... so usually she almost misses me biting every time.
For normal treats like Pineapple and nuts... Tink does the same thing except it's real cute what she does this time. She will hold onto it and let me hold onto it while she takes a bite. She'll just keep coming back. So basically I'm feeding her. LOL.
Pixie is usually better with these kinds of treats but only uses her hand to grab once an awhile. But she is better with these she goes a bit slower. But she's so aggressive... like she's never eaten before and they are going to leave. dunno Can that be stopped too? She should know they aren't going anywhere.

OHHH! One thing. Don't know if it's just me trying to think this, BUT I do think I taught Pixie something. AGAIN. Don't know if it's true.
Ok... this might be a bit long.
She was snuggled up in my hoodie right? She was on my chest ontop of my shirt (not under... LOL) and I gave her a mealie. She did what she usually does grab it fast then swallow it and look for more. I waited until she went back to laying down to give her more. She did it again... swallowed and tried to grab the container from me. Then she went back to laying down... looking at me like a little puppy so I gave her another. THEN she ate it slowly and went back to laying down and looked at me. IS SHE LEARNING??? Because I thought she was! I was so happy I almost cried. (sorry I get teary eyed when my babies improve)

Since you guys know more than me I figured I'd ask you guys. Is she really learning that if she lays down I'll give her more? Because that's what she did! smile
And is there something I can do about her aggression to food... About her stealing from Tink and thinking the food is going to go? She will literally take everything from Tink. She will have this huge pile and not even eat all of it. Only like one and go back to sleep. She will even steal it from Tinks mouth! --I have video of that.

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #760498
04/04/09 05:20 PM
04/04/09 05:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,035
Las Vegas, NV/Columbus, OH
DeeDancer Offline
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Hey Erica,

I didn't think you were mean. I am sorry for sounding so accusing, but I was recognizing things like "half mode" (like Bourbon mentioned) in those pictures and it didn't occur to me that you didn't recognize it.

I'm definitely not ignoring this thread, I'm out of town for the weekend and managed to borrow someone's computer for a moment, but we have dinner plans so I have to go. Until I can get back here, just keep trying to watch her body language-you're doing a good job. Earlier you asked about Tink not putting her ears down when she's scared...every glider is different so they are going to have different "signals". Your job is to find out what signals each girl uses for what.


~Deanna~
Chinchillas: Luke, Yoda, and Pronk
Gliders: Nika, Ranger, and DeeGee

(702)250-5236
Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: DeeDancer] #760535
04/04/09 06:21 PM
04/04/09 06:21 PM

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prettyinpink
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Thanks Deanna hug2

I thought maybe you were mad at me and that's why you weren't responding... LOL

I'm hoping we can get through this! smile I can't wait!

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #760553
04/04/09 07:21 PM
04/04/09 07:21 PM

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BelladonnasMom
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Hey Erica, don't give up on the licky treats too soon thinking they don't like it. They MIGHT not, but most gliders do. Most likely they are just not used to it, so they are not sure hwo to react to it. They are used to the food from your hands being solid. Using the licky stuff on yor finger gets them used to your hands, and shows them that good things happen when you come to Mommy's hands and hang out wink

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #760555
04/04/09 07:25 PM
04/04/09 07:25 PM

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Hey Robin! hug2 Thanks for checking this out... I'll keep it up. Tinkerbell likes it. Pixie just doesn't seem to but I'll keep it up who knows maybe she'll come around smile

Maybe you can tell the others that I'm not the type of person that would 'hold' my babies down or 'force' them to do things... tounge

BTW Deanna... I just took Tinkerbell out and she DID do the half mode thing so I guess they both DO do it and maybe she just wasn't scared at that moment. So does it mean she's scared or mad? When Pixie does it? Just curious... And Deanna can you help me with Pixie's aggression towards treats? Or is that not possible? And was she in fact learning?

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #760558
04/04/09 07:29 PM
04/04/09 07:29 PM

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OMG guys! cry I was looking at old pics... and my baby Pixie... well I was looking at her ears and almost all of the pics are at 'half mode'... Does that mean she's mad at me? Or what!!! dunno
That makes me so upset! frown

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #760559
04/04/09 07:30 PM
04/04/09 07:30 PM

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BelladonnasMom
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Someone on another board told me that what that pose means, the ears layed down somewhat. I was describing this behavior in Donna while I was working with her. I'll have to dig it up as I can't remember what he said it means. Maybe Bourbon can give us some insight.

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #760562
04/04/09 07:32 PM
04/04/09 07:32 PM

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I just don't understand why she's so scared? Maybe she's not used to being out during play time... or me giving her lovin?

I'll try to upload pics later... But almost all of them she's on half mode....

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #760995
04/05/09 07:24 PM
04/05/09 07:24 PM

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BelladonnasMom
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First of all I just want you to know Erica that nobody has abandoned you, your thread or your gliders. This just seems to be the travel weekend for a lot of us. Bourbon is in Missouri and I have been back and forth on short trips this weekend myself.

Now, my 2 cents. I need you to do something for me. I need you to stop telling yourself that your babies are SCARED of you! You yourself say there is no reason for either Pixie or Tink to be afraid of you, and there really isn't. So I think you are worrying yourself too much by using the word scared. My opinion, and most likely that of the others that will jump in later, is that she is apprehensive, or nervous. Not necessarily SCARED, just UNSURE! This is all just as new to them as it is to you, and just take a breath, slow down, and go at their pace. Don't rush things. You have nothing but time and nothing to lose, and I can honestly tell you that the more time you take in this process, the better it will work and the more solid the trust will be.

Okay???

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #761001
04/05/09 07:37 PM
04/05/09 07:37 PM

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Thanks Robin... hug2

I was mostly just wondering what the down ears meant... you are right I'm worrying too much. I do that too often. I just want to find out what I'm doing wrong with Pixie so I can fix it. I am just confused that's all... I've been going slow.

I let her sleep and then take her out into a bonding pouch... but usually I just take their pouch they are in and set it on my lap and gently rub them while they sleep. Usually when I do this Pixie will either come out or she'll curl up in my hand. And every time I do this she makes this sort of clicking noise when I rub her or when I give her treats... I suppose that's their version of a cats purr. So I'm assuming she's enjoying it? That's why I'm so confused as to why I'm getting bit... she'll just bite me out of the blue while SHE herself curls up in my hand. I'm not doing this SHE is and then will fall asleep... and then wake up turn around give me a bite and then try to get my hand to come back down so she can go back asleep. It's like she likes it but she doesn't. dunno

Wanted to add when I was SUPER calm yesterday she was a sweet heart and her ears perked up... I guess being calm helps. But I usually am! dunno

Last edited by prettyinpink; 04/05/09 07:38 PM.
Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #761011
04/05/09 07:46 PM
04/05/09 07:46 PM

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BelladonnasMom
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Yes, being calm will do WONDERS! And the ears down is just nerves. She MIGHT be scared, but I am more likely to think she is just unsure of what is goin on; more worried that afraid.

And stop thinking you are doing something WRONG! You are doing everything above and beyond for these girls, and I think you are doing fabulous! Relaxing and working slowly with your girls is going to do wonders, just you see!

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #761062
04/05/09 09:05 PM
04/05/09 09:05 PM

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Thanks Robin hug2

I'll just keep trying smile I'll try the lickily treats in a little bit. Kirby is out playing right now... So I'll do it when he goes back.

Can't wait to see the 'process' Deanna is going to tell me like Bourbon said.

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #761065
04/05/09 09:06 PM
04/05/09 09:06 PM

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monluvspagen
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I am wondering if Pagen is doing the same thing...? Erica did you read my post about Pagen?

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #761170
04/06/09 04:06 AM
04/06/09 04:06 AM
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Erica (and whoever else is reading..) one of the first things we do is to sit back and start watching the gliders, we have to spend as much time getting to know them, that they need to get to know you, through this time, we really want them to love us immediately, but the truth is, why should they? do they know you? do they speak your language? have they spent enough time with you to learn what your body language means, rather than what THEY perceive it as? NO? well then we will just have to fix that now won't we? Erica, you keep saying how are we going to fix this? the fact is, you are going to do it,

Erica, to stop the aggressiveness with the treats, do not offer anything, that they have to use their teeth ANYWHERE near your hands, we have to address other issues first. For now, to give them the treats they have to bite to either get or eat, place them in toys, foraging toys(John Xglider has a great line of these), find different places in their toys to hide the treats that they can find and enjoy. you MAY be able to hand feed them later on..when THEY are ready.

We will give you the direction to take, get you in the right mind frame, teach you the importance of not doing some things and why doing other things may help you more. we will explain in detail, so you really understand what we are saying and why.

From today forward, we won't have to tell you what you are doing that may need fixed, (fixed , not meaning bad, just meaning could be done differently to make things better.)but, we may, maybe to help you see, maybe to help someone that is reading and not posting. You will learn it, you will see it. then you admit it, to yourself, and when questioned maybe to others, It is not a bad thing to not know something, it is however, to not know , stand and defend yourself, and not say anything so others can help. It doesn't get the problems fixed. It will require you thinking about things people are saying, don't take it as being against you, or that your a bad owner, that is not the case, but just as no 2 kids are the same, neither are the gliders, each one has their own ways of talking to you, and each one will read you differently as well. It is up to YOU, to put words to their actions, You need to start to understand what they are feeling, why that may be, and help with possible solutions to fix it. Then you can take the next step to fixing it.

Deanna is still out of town I think, (or maybe she is hiding to make me do this, whichever the reason, I will take you for a walk..... a walk into the mind of your glider, a place you will find yourself, more and more, and a place that will be the starting point and the most important part of trying to help yours and your gliders relationship. You will find this is not only fun, but it will be very rewarding. learning your glider, becoming one with them requires understanding, compassion, love and a lot of patience.

(Erica, you noticed it when you calmed down a lot, things were much better)you changed you,(you calmed down) your gliders behavior changed because of it. this is an very good example of what we have been saying. a very important lesson, you have learned.. now practice it, make it a huge part of how you are around them. For the next 2 days do not take them out of their cage, then we will start to work with them in THEIR comfort zone, but one step at a time, and we are going to start here first. what you learn, you will use, later, (only days.. relax, lets not rush things,) they will let you know when they are ready to move on. we can not work on step 5 till you learn steps 1-4 first. step 4 is hand trust/ and trust building during playtime. which comes after other things. and definitely before the time enjoyment and relaxation in the pouch.

now are we ready to get started?

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: Bourbon] #761174
04/06/09 05:55 AM
04/06/09 05:55 AM
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Step 2 looking at life through THEIR eyes, not ours.

Erica before I get started, do not assume I am talking about you here, this is the story I tell EVERYONE, to help them understand their glider better.. to look at life through their eyes..it is a hypothetical exercise, to get you to think about how your glider may feel about different situations,

okay , when I am done, I want you to sit back and really think of anything you may have done, anxieties included. After reading this, it should make you sit back and say.. okay now I know better.. and then work on changing things. PRACTICE what you learn here.

the first thing I want to do is make you do some thinking, some thinking as a glider, not as the owner.

Did you know a glider of 100 grams and a human of 125 lbs, that we are 700 times the size of a glider. (now do your own math to get a real comparison based on your weight, and your gliders.)but I am going to use these figures for our examples here.) to imagine what life for our gliders would be like, having an owner that compares, we would have to imagine something..........

87,500 lbs and moving and making noises that we don't understand. now sit back before you continue on, think about this.. think of things you could imagine that is that big, and would be our owner.......


personally I couldn't even imagine something that big moving, talking a different language, something that wouldn't understand our feelings.

so I am going to use King Kong, as my owner, (thinking of the movie, with the girl in his hand on the side of the empire state building,) although the picture is unrealistic according to scale (woman same size as the plane) imagine if she was scaled smaller to the right size..
for those that want a good visual, here is a link to a
Poster of King Kong and the girl

now imagine King Kong just getting you (your only 5 years old)and placing you in a little room, with nothing in it, no furniture, nothing ... (The room is your pouch), the door is only a window, (the top of the pouch)but very high in a building like structure with NOTHING to climb out on to, in order to escape, you can look out, and what you see is ODD, it is not like anything you have ever seen before, the life outside of that window is strange, scary and totally unfamiliar.

now King Kong walks by, makes some noises and puts his hand in the window, and tries to grab you, what defenses do you have against King Kong? kicking, screaming, biting (lunging, crabbing biting), like they really are not going to much damage , but you are so scared, you try them anyway, nothing is working, and you continue to try, he may get annoyed and drop you, but he comes back and grabs you again. NOW.. what are you thinking?


do you care he wants to be your friend? of course not, what are you worried about? why are you afraid? because simply put, you don't want to be his breakfast, lunch or midnight marshmallow snack, for as much as you know about monsters this size, they want to eat you. why would he want to be friends with you? you have NOTHING in common at all. You can't even understand what each other is saying.

Oh no, he gets you, he just put you in a bag, and he carrying you out of your room.. what are you thinking? where is he taking you, what is he going to do.. again are you thinking he wants to be your friend? at this point, do you really care? probably not, do you want to wait around to find out? What are you thinking? the same fears and anxieties as earlier, you don't know, and your uncertain about what is going to happen to you, it is overwhelming to you. your heart is pumping , very fast, you are breathing very hard, your body shakes with fear and your adrenaline is really pumping now..

Oh, he stopped...everything is calm.. what is happening, what is he going to do? You can't see him.. are you going to be calm and wait to see? or are you going to take the first chance you can to get away.

he opens the bag....... he looks at you, all you can see is his face ... what are you really looking at? are you watching his eyes? or his mouth? he is making noises..what is he saying? is he saying how delicious you look? or is he trying to be friends? again, do you care that he wants to be friends? In your head. again, you don't know, it could be either way? which chance are you going to take? the chance he wants to be friends, or the chance he wants to eat you? my money would be the majority of people would think, he wants to eat them.. now you start screaming to leave you alone, you might even try to bite and kick him, but one thing is for sure, again, your heart is beating, you are shaking, your breathing heavy.

Here it comes, he puts his hand into your bag... he hasn't touched you yet.. now what are you thinking? what do you think he is doing? what will you do or try now?

some will choose to wait and see, some will choose to bite and continue to fight, some will try like heck to get out past his hand... (remember different people (gliders) act differently) this part can go in so many different directions..but I would......

try like heck to get as far away from him as possible, cause I KNOW in my head, he wants to eat me, and I am not ready to be his snack cake. sooooo. I will bite first then when he stops, I will run as fast and as far as I can...I will do anything to stay away from him. what would you do? What would you think and why?

Self Preservation kicks in and you......

are so small and he is so big, you have to be quick, smart, you must first get out.. so you bite him, run past his hand, run out, jump, do you care that you may get hurt, do you care the area may be more dangerous than he is? probably not..,He tries to grab you, you are too quick for him, you get away, you run and hide, he uncovers you, and reaches for you. you run under something he continues to come after you. Your heart is pounding so hard, you feel it in your throat. you run again, you climb up something he tries to grab you again. You run again, You jump,

Gawd, he catches you....he is holding you tight, you can't get away, You bite him, he puts you back in the bag, he closes it up tight..

you are moving, where is he taking you? What is going to do? did you anger him? How are you feeling right now? do you think he wants to be friends now? probably not. What are you truly thinking? what are you feeling? What are your plans now?

He puts you back into your room.... What do you do? What are you thinking? What are you going to do when he comes back? How are you going to act? put yourself now in the many situations, that you have placed your glider/gliders in attempts to teach them you want to be friends with them, situations where you have tried bonding with them, before you have given them a chance to trust you. Before giving them a chance to get to know you and what your intentions truly are.


After putting our minds, into the frame set of our gliders, most if not all of us, can sit back and say.. I didn't know, I had no idea. Some of the things I did.. were awful I am sure, they had to be, my gliders was telling me they were.. when they showed me the only way they could, I tried harder, making many times the same mistakes over and over again.. until.....

I stopped one day, and looked deep into her eyes, and started to place myself, in her tiny world, with me as my own monster.. Life turned around for me, and at the same time, I knew I had to change, for her, and you know what, my changes, gave her an opportunity to start to learn more about me, she reacted differently, not only towards me, but at the life I gave her as well.

she became more comfortable with me, with her surroundings, she played more, and she gave me, many, many years of true happiness. we became one, we understood each other, when she spoke to me (with her body language, I listened. Just as she was listening to mine.

When I was happy and calm, so was she, when I was scared, she felt it, she reacted to it, when I was not confidant, and understanding, felt unsure, so did she, she was more anxious, she felt uneasy.

for the next 2 days.... think about this story, think about things you have done, think of how you would have reacted if you were the glider? think about what you will in the future will do differently under the same situations thinking of life through the gliders eyes. could they have been prevented how? How could you have made things easier for the glider?

During these 2 days...do nothing more than use 1 sentence with your glider/gliders open their cage door often, If they are out of the pouch, ONLY look into their eyes, and with the compassion and understanding you have learned, say ONLY 1 sentence.. tell them... everything is going to be ok, do it with the love you feel, keeping your voice steady, sure and low... Watch their body language, learn it, try to put words, and feelings to the looks in their eyes. but keep it, and your hands to yourself, close the door, and go about your business. If they are in the pouch, Open the door, tell them everything is going to be okay, close the door, and walk away. Keeping your hands on the outside of the cage, and your thoughts to yourself.

You will notice when you say that 1 sentence, your tone is now different, your demeanor is now more understanding, the first time, apologize for what has been done in the past while you didn't know, and please let them know.. everything is going to be OK,
IF they want to crab, let them, if they feel there is a need to defend themselves, let them, understand why they may feel that way.. look at it through their eyes, their feelings, their thoughts, not yours.

Let us know, what you are noticing, what you are now seeing from both, your eyes and your gliders... remember from here on out, you are looking at life through THEIR eyes, working on THEIR time, on THEIR terms, not yours.


Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: Bourbon] #761335
04/06/09 01:11 PM
04/06/09 01:11 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,035
Las Vegas, NV/Columbus, OH
DeeDancer Offline
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Dangit, Bourbon, I was still out of town! I only had time for fly-by posts over the weekend, I didn't have time for that big long one...I wasn't even hiding (for once LOl), I had the numbers written down and everything!

Well darn. Lol. Did you get all of that Erica?


~Deanna~
Chinchillas: Luke, Yoda, and Pronk
Gliders: Nika, Ranger, and DeeGee

(702)250-5236
Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: DeeDancer] #761421
04/06/09 03:14 PM
04/06/09 03:14 PM

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upset Yes... I got all of it. I feel horrible. I understood how small they are and how freaked out they must be from me. But once you said have you had any problems that would make them feel differently? I DID about the whole first month I got them and a little after that. I had a lot of things going on... and I did hold my gliders in their pouch while I cried a few times. Tinkerbell started crabbing like crazy and now I realize that they must've been so confused.

upset This really upsets me. TWO DAYS! upset
They always want out for play time. They will sit at their cage door waiting to come out. And Tinkerbell jumps on me and everything during play time. She glides on me, everything... upset

How is this going to go? I LOVE play time with them. And I know Tinkerbell loves it... Pixie likes being out too. They sit at their cage door until I let them out. upset How long will it be until they can come out? I'm just stressing if you couldn't tell. This is new and I want to know what I have to do after the two days. Do you get what I mean?

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #761426
04/06/09 03:19 PM
04/06/09 03:19 PM

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prettyinpink
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I'm sorry if that post sounded bad. I'm SUPER tired today... So I'm not all there. shakehead

EDIT: I'm just upset because Pixie loves to snuggle up in my hoddie... Ugg. LOL I can't go a day without seeing them.

Last edited by prettyinpink; 04/06/09 03:23 PM.
Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #761432
04/06/09 03:27 PM
04/06/09 03:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,035
Las Vegas, NV/Columbus, OH
DeeDancer Offline
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Erica, relax. I don't know if Tyler had you wait two days to interact with the girls when you first got them, but when you get new gliders giving them time to settle in is a good thing. I know that your gliders are not "new" to you, you have had them for a couple of months, so you are probably wondering what gives with the two days thing?

Well, what you're doing here is getting a new beginning with your gliders. You are giving them two days to feel confident with your voice and with their environment, their cage. You are building trust with both of them by showing them that when you open the cage door, you are not going to take them out. You are giving them their secure zone. After this, they will associate your voice and the phrase "Everything is going to be okay" with their secure zone.

I know you want to play with them and I know they like their out time but they will be okay. They need this time to settle down and start learning that they can trust you. This process will build strong trust with your gliders, so just relax. Remember that they can pick up on your feelings and every time you open their cage door you need to be calm and confident. hug2


~Deanna~
Chinchillas: Luke, Yoda, and Pronk
Gliders: Nika, Ranger, and DeeGee

(702)250-5236
Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #761434
04/06/09 03:32 PM
04/06/09 03:32 PM

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Originally Posted By: monluvspagen
I am wondering if Pagen is doing the same thing...? Erica did you read my post about Pagen?


Monika I read you're post... It's EXACTLY the same thing so I don't get why people are saying different things than what they are saying to mine? dunno

Deanna...
Yeah. I'm just really upset. I don't want to start what I got out of Tinkerbell all over again. It took two months for her to be where she is now and I don't want that to start all over from not interacting with her.
I don't know what you guys are going to tell me to do... Maybe I'm just so confused. frown

Sorry... I'm just a bit frustrated right now, I have a lot of things on my mind.

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #761453
04/06/09 03:57 PM
04/06/09 03:57 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,035
Las Vegas, NV/Columbus, OH
DeeDancer Offline
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You won't lose the progress you made with Tink in just 2 days.
You said you were confused...is there something you need me to explain?


~Deanna~
Chinchillas: Luke, Yoda, and Pronk
Gliders: Nika, Ranger, and DeeGee

(702)250-5236
Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: DeeDancer] #761455
04/06/09 04:00 PM
04/06/09 04:00 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,035
Las Vegas, NV/Columbus, OH
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Just read your post on the other thread-we are not saying to start the bonding process over. We are helping you start trust building with your gliders.


~Deanna~
Chinchillas: Luke, Yoda, and Pronk
Gliders: Nika, Ranger, and DeeGee

(702)250-5236
Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: DeeDancer] #761459
04/06/09 04:02 PM
04/06/09 04:02 PM

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Yeah... Um I'm a little confused. Could you maybe explain what's going to go on? All you guys really said was leave them alone for two days then we will start? Or did I read it wrong?

I'm just wondering what 'starting' means dunno Do you get what I'm asking?

LOL... sorry. I'm lost.

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #761606
04/06/09 08:04 PM
04/06/09 08:04 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,035
Las Vegas, NV/Columbus, OH
DeeDancer Offline
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Lol. Starting RIGHT NOW, do what Bourbon said-leave them alone for two days, only opening the cage door every so often and saying "Everything is going to be okay," and then shutting the cage door again. That's the first thing you are going to do to build trust with them. At the end of the two days, I will tell you what is next.


~Deanna~
Chinchillas: Luke, Yoda, and Pronk
Gliders: Nika, Ranger, and DeeGee

(702)250-5236
Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: DeeDancer] #761610
04/06/09 08:08 PM
04/06/09 08:08 PM

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prettyinpink
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LOL I know that part... I'm wondering what comes next. I haven't taken them out of the cage and it's killing me... These next two days are going to kill my insides... shakehead

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #761617
04/06/09 08:20 PM
04/06/09 08:20 PM

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Padros4
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You can do it! smile It'll be tough I'm sure, but just remember that as much as it kills you to do this now, it'll benefit ALL of you in the future! That's something to look forward to.

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #761618
04/06/09 08:22 PM
04/06/09 08:22 PM

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prettyinpink
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Yeah... thanks Jenny. smile

I always give them their daily treats... sucks! It's amazing how attached they can get you... shakehead

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #761636
04/06/09 08:44 PM
04/06/09 08:44 PM
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Erica, simply put, we won't move on to the next step, until the step we are working on is not only understood, but utilized (used), and practiced.

It seems to me you are not really ready to let go of what you are currently doing to do anything different, no we are not going to say what happens in 2 days, why should we? we are not there yet, and in 2 days, you may not be ready to move to the next step. you are still really stuck on step one.

step one... you have to see the need to change what needs fixed. step one is relaxing, step one is reading, step one is listening,

so you want to know what we are asking from you.. go back and learn step one. then when you are ready, read step 2, do not move to step 2 until you are ready, when you really are ready, you will know it.

you are still looking at life through your eyes and what you want. You still want everything fixed now today, you think if you do step 6 that it will work, it will not. all you want is to know in the end what is going to happen. Erica, you are not ready for step 2, step one is where you learn to relax read, listen, and put what you are learning into action.


is there anyone else that is following this thread that may be utilizing what I am typing? if not, then I will not put step 3 up till Erica is ready for it. If you are let me know.

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: Bourbon] #761646
04/06/09 09:09 PM
04/06/09 09:09 PM

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Critteromine
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I am! I'm soaking up info like a sponge and can use all the help I can get.

I've had my two kids for about a month and a half. I'm making very slow progress, which thrills me since it is progress! I can now put my hand on them and pet them. They will sometimes curl up under my hand. I can't pick them up yet and I don't feel comfortable letting them jump off me to roam, when we aren't in the tent.

Once I started taking them with me to work, it helped a lot. My boy is much more open to attention and greets me in the morning but the girl is still a biter, although she is getting better and allows me to touch her. They both respond to my voice and will calm down if something startles them.

Please, please, please continue the human training! I love my little ones like crazy and want them as happy as possible.

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: Bourbon] #761712
04/06/09 10:51 PM
04/06/09 10:51 PM

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prettyinpink
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I AM ready... I already said it. I'm just wondering what the heck is going on... I think you don't get what I am asking.

I want to work with you guys... I'm just getting frustrated. Not with my gliders but you. I don't even want to say that because I don't want any fighting going on. You have NO idea how much I appreciate you guys.

Critteromine- The thing is why I'm so frustrated is I CAN pick Pixie and Tinkerbell both up. She just bites every so often which I'm trying to understand why.

I'm just wondering why when I was looking at posts from later dates and Monikas for example you guys are saying completly different things to the both of us. dunno

I may sound mean right now but trust me I'm just wondering what we are doing? No one really explained that to me. Don't think of me as a baby crying out. I'm just wondering simply put what we're doing. All you're telling me is what to do not what we are going to do. NO I'm not going to just jump onto step 6. I'm the type of person that wants to know what's going on. That's just me... if you don't like it sorry. I'm a really nice person and I'm just asking you to listen to me. And NO I don't want everything fixed today, right now. I told everyone before I have patience... You have no idea what I went through with Kirby. LOL. He's a different animal but I had to teach him to like me and trust me. I've been told by many people that they've never seen a beardie as calm and well behaved as him. I've accomplished a lot with him by being patient. And that's what I'm doing now.

I think you guys aren't understanding me or something...

The thing is with typing I can't see your expressions. Linda said this before that it's really hard for us to read what you're writing without seeing facial expressions.

Do you guys get what I'm asking though?

--Wanted to say... I've been opening the cage door every so often and saying it's going to be ok and how much I love them and miss them right now. I ONLY do that right? No touching the pouch or anything right?

I'm really nervous for tonight... LOL. Because I let them out when the doors open at night for a few hours if I can. When the lights go off I go get their food and they are up waiting for me. So I'm going to have to sneak their food in.

My question is... why do you have to open the cage door? Couldn't you just talk to them with it shut? Or does it not matter?

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: Bourbon] #761780
04/07/09 04:33 AM
04/07/09 04:33 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 274
Southeast Iowa
Ember Offline
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Southeast Iowa
I'm utilizing this thread! Not practicing as of right now, but definitely reading it and taking it into consideration. I have a new baby who bites. Not so much on the hands, but all over when she's running around on me during tent time. Back of my neck, on my arm, my feet! I think she thinks I'm going to ooze treats! However it is painful, and I don't want to be nervous she's going to bite me all the time. I try covering all my skin by like wearing a hoodie and long pants, but if my hoodie should ride up a bit on my back, she'll find that skin and nibble it, then go in for a second taste which is a bite. I psst at her, which doesn't seem to do much unless I Reeeeaally psst, which I think is just giving her attention and not good. She does the same thing to my boyfriend, with the biting of the exposed skin. I don't think it's aggression as much as I think she honestly thinks there's going to be a treat coming out. I think she likes how we taste, which is a nice compliment, but I don't want to be tasted anymore! LOL crazy She doesn't bite my hand when I stick it in the pouch, but I also don't try to give her the opportunity, I watch her head and really watch to anticipate a bite. She allows petting. We're still feeling eachother out, but if it continues I'll be trying these steps your mentioning. Just thought I'd let you know that someone else is paying attention and benefiting! Thank you!!


Casey


Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: Ember] #761781
04/07/09 04:36 AM
04/07/09 04:36 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 274
Southeast Iowa
Ember Offline
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Also I want to wish you luck with Pixie! Even though I have no experience as of yet to offer! clown


Casey


Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: Ember] #761791
04/07/09 06:01 AM
04/07/09 06:01 AM

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missyskandi
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Yes! Bourbon I am watching this post and go to read EVERY time a new post is made. You and Dee are talking to everyone!

When I first got my babies, one was a sweetie (Dora)and one was a biter of the absolute worst kind (Missy). She was literally drawing blood everyday. I was frustrated beyond belief and just cried. Then from a post on here, I realized Missy was feeling my frustration, and I completely changed my tatics. She is now the nicer of the two and the one who never crabs and is all cuddly and lovey. That being said... I am reading this to see what comes next to compare it to what I did, and to pick up any tips I can for the Dora who does still crab ~ AND to see if there is something else that I can do the even further strengthen the bond with either or both of them.

In addition, I have a friend with a biter that I am trying to help work with, and I am using what you are writing so I can go back to her and let her know how she can overcome it too.

Sorry I have been lurking and not adding in, but until now, I didn't really have anything to say. I am sure there are others who are just reading to learn and not necessarily posting so PLEASE continue with the process for us! You are doing an amazing job!

Thanks a million for all that you and everyone on this board do!

Last edited by missyskandi; 04/07/09 09:43 AM. Reason: typos!
Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #761977
04/07/09 05:57 PM
04/07/09 05:57 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,035
Las Vegas, NV/Columbus, OH
DeeDancer Offline
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I understand what you're asking, Erica, but Bourbon does this step by step because if she gave you all of the information at once it would be overwhelming. I think there's enough to think about just right now, what with realizing that your gliders pick up on your emotions and everything else that Bourbon said in her long 2 part post. We want you to focus on each part. Quite honestly if I were to sit here and tell you this whole process it would be a really long, information filled post (if it even fit in one post) and you would feel overwhelmed.

Opening the cage door is important because you want to teach them that when the cage door opens it doesn't necessarily mean that you are going to touch the pouch or them or anything.

Now...Bourbon said this:

Originally Posted By: bourbon
Let us know, what you are noticing, what you are now seeing from both, your eyes and your gliders... remember from here on out, you are looking at life through THEIR eyes, working on THEIR time, on THEIR terms, not yours.


What have you noticed so far about your gliders (and possibly about yourself)?


~Deanna~
Chinchillas: Luke, Yoda, and Pronk
Gliders: Nika, Ranger, and DeeGee

(702)250-5236
Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: Ember] #761993
04/07/09 07:04 PM
04/07/09 07:04 PM

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prettyinpink
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Ok. Thanks for saying that Deanna... Now that makes sense. But I still don't understand why I'm getting different responses. Like I can pick them both up with no question and they'll come up and cuddle with me... I guess I don't think of them being scared of me because they are doing just this. Like when Monika created that post you guys said differently. I just feel like I did something wrong and that's why I have to do this. Do you get what I mean?

What have I noticed so far? What do you mean... Like I said before after Bourbon created that post that I realize how scared they probably are... but I knew that before. She explained that same exact thing on the phone to me when I called her about a private issue. But did explain it better on here.

Last night they were barking like CRAZY! frown When I went to give them their food I just looked at them in their eyes... and they just sat there staring at me asking to be out. I didn't want to tease them so I just sat there and talked for a little bit. They wanted out so it did hurt to see them wanting to be out. But I did as I was told and just softly talked to them. I DIDN'T touch them once... this is very hard for me. LOL.
I've been looking into their actual eyes a lot more... like last night.

I'm doing the same thing today. Just opening the cage door and just softly talking to them.

It's amazing how fast you can get attached to them... and how much you can miss them just from a simple thing like this.

Originally Posted By: Ember
Also I want to wish you luck with Pixie! Even though I have no experience as of yet to offer! clown

Thank you! hug2

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #762009
04/07/09 08:09 PM
04/07/09 08:09 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,035
Las Vegas, NV/Columbus, OH
DeeDancer Offline
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Originally Posted By: prettyinpink
But I still don't understand why I'm getting different responses.


Originally Posted By: prettyinpink
Like when Monika created that post you guys said differently.


I know I didn't reply to Monika's thread. I glanced through both threads and did not see anyone who replied to her that also replied to you, so I'm really not sure who you mean why you say "you guys". Also, based on what I've read in her post & yours, it doesn't seem that Pixie's behavior is the same as Pagen's. Monika said her glider's bites don't hurt, but you said that Pixies do. There's a definite difference there.

Originally Posted By: prettyinpink
I've been looking into their actual eyes a lot more... like last night.


This is a good thing!!

When I asked what you noticed... I just mean to keep looking into their eyes and watching their body language, trying to read how they feel or what they are going to do next. I was asking if there was anything new that you could tell about their actions.

It really is hard, but the result will be worth it!


~Deanna~
Chinchillas: Luke, Yoda, and Pronk
Gliders: Nika, Ranger, and DeeGee

(702)250-5236
Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: DeeDancer] #762020
04/07/09 10:14 PM
04/07/09 10:14 PM

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prettyinpink
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Oh yeah. I guess I read over the biting part where it didn't hurt. I have very thin skin and bruise easily though. tounge
I didn't really mean you specifically I meant that Pixie is doing the same thing hers is doing to me but people suggested different things. But her bites do hurt.

Good to know.

Still been doing the talking thing. Opening the cage door and talking... not touching them like you said wink

EDIT: I just looked at her post again... she said it doesn't hurt 'that bad but it doesn't feel good' that's exactly what I said... LOL

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #762024
04/07/09 10:33 PM
04/07/09 10:33 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 1,035
Las Vegas, NV/Columbus, OH
DeeDancer Offline
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You said:

Originally Posted By: prettyinpink
Trust me it's not a pretty bite. She doesn't lunge or anything but it hurts.


I don't want to argue with you here but you said the bites hurt you, so it still sounds like different behavior to me.

Regardless, there is no "one way" to get something done. Some gliders respond to certain things while other gliders don't. People are going to post what they personally have had success with, that doesn't necessarily mean that there is a cut and dry answer for everything, even if the situations are similar.

Keep up the good work!


~Deanna~
Chinchillas: Luke, Yoda, and Pronk
Gliders: Nika, Ranger, and DeeGee

(702)250-5236
Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: DeeDancer] #762026
04/07/09 10:58 PM
04/07/09 10:58 PM

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BelladonnasMom
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If you want my advice Erica, listen to these women. If you really want it to work, and you really want to work with these women, just listen, and stop worrying about what comes next and what you are doing wrong. Chances are you ARE NOT doing anything wrong, they are just offering you a BETTER way to get to the bottom line YOU want, but with happier gliders. I can promise you this much, these women will NEVER ask you to do something that will A) hurt your gliders, B)hurt YOU, C) hurt the progress you have made with your gliders. This entire process is designed to help you and your gliders, but mainly your gliders.

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #762029
04/07/09 11:18 PM
04/07/09 11:18 PM

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prettyinpink
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Deanna... Sorry. This is all just new to me. I'm not trying to argue I'm just having a hard time here... hopefully you understand what I mean. I'm just a little emotional when it comes to my babies.
I can't wait to see what's going to happen wink
I just want to thank you for cooperating with me and helping me with this hug2 You have no idea how much this means to me even if I seem like I don't appreciate you... I DO very much so. Thank you so much for checking out this post and helping me along this road. I really, really appreciate it. hug2

Robin... I AM listening to everything they have to say. I've done nothing BUT listen to them. I appreciate everything they have to say and I've said so. I'm just getting frustrated and confused... I didn't create this post to ask people to come on here to do this. I asked for help and that's what she's giving me and I've been nothing but following it.

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #762048
04/08/09 12:42 AM
04/08/09 12:42 AM

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BelladonnasMom
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Originally Posted By: prettyinpink
I'm just getting frustrated and confused... I didn't create this post to ask people to come on here to do this. I asked for help and that's what she's giving me and I've been nothing but following it.


Then what DID you ask for Erica??? You asked for help. This is YOUR thread. If this is NOT the kind of help you are looking for, you are more than welcome to ask these people to stop and leave you alone. BUT... they are here to help if you want them to, and they will. They, and myself, are not here to upset you at all. We are just offering the knowledge and experience that WE have to help you.

Please... if you want to go this route... stop being so defensive. This is not a cult, or a draft. If you aren't comfortable with all of this, neither will our gliders be...

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #762054
04/08/09 01:46 AM
04/08/09 01:46 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 323
Twin Lakes, WI
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So, I finally sat down and just read this ENTIRE thread! (Whew - there was a lot to read!)
I'm going to put my two cents in a little bit...

When I first got Mak & Xylo I didn't expect them to be grumpy and grouchy with me. I took part in that HUGE post of bonding with Pouch Protective Gliders, and then spoke with Bourbon on the phone a million and a half times.

Erica, your doing great - really you are...I saw that you asked a million questions and did thorough research before even getting your gliders.

Now you have your gliders and you are asking for help - let them help grin

Now for this next part that I am going to tell you I'm NOT in any way telling you to do this...I'm going to share a personal story to let you know that I know exactly how you feel.

For my "step process" with my gliders my first step was to take EVERYTHING out of their cage that they could hide behind. It was awful! I came home from my lunch break one day and saw Xylo just hanging out at the top of the cage, wide awake and not moving. Of course I panicked and called Bourbon immediately. Bourbon then explained in greater detail, and provided more information on how to handle my own personal experience. To make a long story short, I am SO glad I followed the step process, and even more thankful that I didn't get all the information at one time that I was supposed to do. (I thought the first step was enough information alone! lol)

Everyone here knows that you love your gliders, if you didn't you wouldn't have asked the question in the first place on how to make their life with you better. I think you should just take a deep breath, take a step back and listen for a bit. Do the two day method that they were telling you about, and let it happen slowly. Who knows it might take a little longer for the two day process to happen then actually two days - but don't let that deter you from doing it. After the two days, you will get another set of instructions on what to do and so on. You will keep receiving instructions on how to help you and your gliders until one day you will see ALL the benefits from it. Especially if you do eventually get to the point where she is NEVER biting you - even when she is grooming.

Don't be overwhelmed...I know I was with the whole process I had to go through. If you want take a bit and read the old thread - it will take a while, but from that you will be able to see the process everyone else went through from beginning to end, and then all the stories of how the people can't believe what their gliders are doing! They are WANTING to be held, and WANTING to play and NO LONGER BITING!!
It is an amazing feeling when you do win the love of your glider over!

If you are feeling a little overwhelmed, take a few days and clear your own head first, because the gliders can sense your every emotion.

Both my gliders are bonded to me now - although the other night I was really upset about something and instead of playing Mak ran straight back into his pouch like "I don't wanna play with her when she is like this!"

After this is all said and done you will be SO happy!!
Let it happen grin

Focus on the gliders, and try to not think that everyone is thinking so negatively about you...they just need to understand the full story before they can try and help...now that they know - focus on trying this...I think you will find utter amazement in the changes that your gliders will have

Good Luck! And remember...let it happen grin

If you have any questions that you think I might be able to help on, or even if your just frustrated and worried - I've been there...my cell is on my profile, and so is my e-mail address...call or write anytime hug2


~* Gliders need a voice, they will always have mine (and my heart, too!) *~

I'm always willing to help. 262.206.2888 you can contact me anytime, day or night.

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #762122
04/08/09 09:16 AM
04/08/09 09:16 AM
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Posts: 5,336
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Bourbon Offline
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Erica, you say you are frustrated with us, fact is it is very frustrating, when we gave you things to do, and in almost all of your posts, you are asking questions about fututure steps, concerned about what you were WANTING to do (take them out playing with them, etc.. defending yourself, comparing your situation to another..

this all slows down the process, what you should have been concentrating on was what it was you were being asked.

in the past few days.. the above was in posts after posts after post.. many people stopped reading the thread through shear frustration. we kept trying different ways to get these things out of your mind and tried to keep you focased on what it is you were SUPPOSED to be doing..

in 2 days, you only said 2 things that was part of what you should have been doing. now I could waste more time, go back and cut and paste EVERYTHING you said that had NOTHING to do with the assignment. better yet, why don't I just cut and paste what it is you did do that was part of your assignment.. things that would let us know you were doing what you were asked to do.

Quote:
Wanted to add when I was SUPER calm yesterday she was a sweet heart and her ears perked up... I guess being calm helps.


this showed us, you learned SOMETHING about your glider and how your feeling/emotions affected your glider

this was a good thing..

Quote:
I was watching her 'body language' last night... I DID notice that she would put her ears in 'half mode' when she'd come out of the pouch... I wouldn't pet her. So I gave her her treat and her ears perked up so I pet her softly.


this showed us, that you did watch her body language and you actually listened to her..

in steps...

you noticed her ears..
you didn't pet her, cause her ears were down.

INSTEAD
you offered her a treat

she showed you , that you listened to her..

her ears perked up

THEN you petted her.

*********************************************
is this the only 2 things you have learned about them? what have they learned about you?

these are the kind of things, that you should have been posting about.

things that YOU were learning about your glider, things that could have been done differently. after all in the past you would have done things differently, and did.

so now with that being said....

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: Bourbon] #762123
04/08/09 09:17 AM
04/08/09 09:17 AM
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Posts: 5,336
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Recap on the past exercise..

things that need to be stress, things that need to be practiced EVERYDAY, EVERY TIME you are around your gliders. if you can print this out, place it near the cage so you will always remember these things.

Quote:
do not offer anything, that they have to use their teeth ANYWHERE near your hands, we have to address other issues first. For now, to give them the treats they have to bite to either get or eat, place them in toys, foraging toys(John Xglider has a great line of these), find different places in their toys to hide the treats that they can find and enjoy.


Quote:
just as no 2 kids are the same, neither are the gliders, each one has their own ways of talking to you, and each one will read you differently as well. It is up to YOU, to put words to their actions, You need to start to understand what they are feeling, why that may be, and help with possible solutions to fix it.


Quote:
a walk into the mind of your glider, a place you will find yourself, more and more, and a place that will be the starting point and the most important part of trying to help yours and your gliders relationship. You will find this is not only fun, but it will be very rewarding. learning your glider, becoming one with them requires understanding, compassion, love and a lot of patience.


Quote:
Watch their body language, learn it, try to put words, and feelings to the looks in their eyes.


Quote:
You will notice when you say that 1 sentence, your tone is now different, your demeanor is now more understanding,

understand why they may feel that way.. look at it through their eyes, their feelings, their thoughts, not yours.


****************************************

okay now before Deanna can move on to the next step...
she can not move on until she thinks you are ready for the next step.


she must have the complete answers to these following things, this was your assignment for the last 2 days.

This assignment MUST be clearly understood, learned and practiced. you will do this throughout the lifetime of your gliders.

Quote:
put yourself now in the many situations, that you have placed your glider/gliders in attempts to teach them you want to be friends with them, situations where you have tried bonding with them, before you have given them a chance to trust you. Before giving them a chance to get to know you and what your intentions truly are.

how you would have reacted if you were the glider? think about what you will in the future will do differently under the same situations thinking of life through the gliders eyes. could they have been prevented how? How could you have made things easier for the glider?


Quote:
Let us know, what you are noticing, what you are now seeing from both, your eyes and your gliders... remember from here on out, you are looking at life through THEIR eyes, working on THEIR time, on THEIR terms, not yours.

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: Bourbon] #762147
04/08/09 09:49 AM
04/08/09 09:49 AM
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(to everyone following the thread in general)

to explain the one sentence thing..

the sentence, "everything is going to be okay."

should be used alone, without any other conversation, without any other words, phrases etc..

now the question is why? since many people think the glider needs to get used to their voice.. this is true.. BUT...

remember they don't know us, they don't speak our language, they can't understand all the words we are saying.

sit back and think about this.

1. you meet some one new who speaks a language we do not.
they are rattling off and continue talking.. we have no clue what is being said.. but now if they say only one phrase, and then they show us what that phrase is, they do this over and over, we begin to learn what it means.

2. try saying different phrases..

even if your upsaet.. the one phase everything is going to be okay, should have a calming affect, not only on the glider, but also on you. when your having a bad day, the gliders should have a calming affect on you, and if they are having a bad day, sometimes it is easy to muddy the waters but just talking and talking and talking to them.. but sitting back and just saying...
everything will be okay.. kind of slows things down.. especially if you know, that is all they should hear at the time, not about your problems, not about the bad day, not about things that upset you..

3. when people ask for help, they are usually frustrated, lost for options on how to help. it is very reassuring to the owners as well, when someone comforts them, and tells them.. (even when they don't feel it themselves) that you know what..

everything is going to be okay...

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: Bourbon] #762197
04/08/09 10:41 AM
04/08/09 10:41 AM
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Hi Bourbon is there anyway to get the steps PMed to me? As you know I went thru the program with Bobby and know how awesome it is. You also know that I've been walking glider owners thru the steps too. I'm asking for the steps in writing so I can have something to refer to when needed. So is it possible? Or should I scan all biting posts and try to cut and paste? I could be in the grave before I find all the steps and I wouldn't want to miss any. You know me the teacher says we should always have a hard copy. I tried PMing you but your mailbox is full so can you PM me? Also have info for you on the regular sleeping pouch issue. I know you have a full plate so I didn't want to call and use the time someone else needs for their babies. Hope all is well with you and as a side note Bobby is doing awesome! He now comes out to play with his mommy all on his own! Such a different glider thanks to you and your help!

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: hpyhwn2003] #762286
04/08/09 12:58 PM
04/08/09 12:58 PM

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One question, I do not know if you guys have seen my thread about Pagen, but Erica says her Pixie is doing the exact same thing.

I seriously do not feel it is because Pagen doesn't trust me... she seems to love to hang out with me and Jack, the one who has never biten me, is getting just as much curious with his sister. My thread is in the behavior forum as "teenage stage". I would love your opinion on it, because if there is anyway I can help my kids out I will, even if they seem cool with me now, there is always a greener side. They have even gotten where they will automatically go in my bra, especially Jack.

And I know Erica is doing so well...poor girl not being able to touch her babies... I bet that is so hard! But she is doing it smile

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: hpyhwn2003] #762363
04/08/09 02:16 PM
04/08/09 02:16 PM
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elena .. call me

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: Bourbon] #762417
04/08/09 03:39 PM
04/08/09 03:39 PM
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StitchsMom Offline
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Your situation is different, Monika. EVERY situation is unique. Refer to your thread to ask questions and receive answers about your specific situation.

Last edited by StitchsMom; 04/08/09 03:41 PM.

~*~Jenny and the fur kids~*~
>>> Sugar Glider Slave <<<
Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #762453
04/08/09 04:17 PM
04/08/09 04:17 PM

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Originally Posted By: BelladonnasMom
Originally Posted By: prettyinpink
I'm just getting frustrated and confused... I didn't create this post to ask people to come on here to do this. I asked for help and that's what she's giving me and I've been nothing but following it.


Then what DID you ask for Erica??? You asked for help. This is YOUR thread. If this is NOT the kind of help you are looking for, you are more than welcome to ask these people to stop and leave you alone. BUT... they are here to help if you want them to, and they will. They, and myself, are not here to upset you at all. We are just offering the knowledge and experience that WE have to help you.

Please... if you want to go this route... stop being so defensive. This is not a cult, or a draft. If you aren't comfortable with all of this, neither will our gliders be...


Ok... first off I haven't read everything yet GEZZ there's been a lot of posts since I left.

Robin. I just TOLD YOU I specifically asked for help and that's what they are doing they are giving me what I asked for. What I said by saying 'I didn't ask for this'. I'm saying I didn't ask you to come on here to yell at me. I've been following it so far and I've been giving everyone my updates. I don't know what the heck I did to [censored] you off... frown
I'm sorry if I upset you. You know how much I like you tounge I was just having a really bad day when I wrote that. A lot was going on.
I'm really sorry.

Nicki -- I'm still reading what you said.

Bourbon -- I've read your first post today under Nicki's that's as far as I've gotten so far... In my response:
I told you guys I was very sorry... and Dee seemed like she understood what I had to say. I'm sorry for making you too frustrated but I've done nothing but doing what you told me to do and I DO have an update for last night!
But that's NOT the only two things I've learned about them... I specifically told you guys that I'm learning their body language and watching their eyes.
Ugg. I'm so upset I'm making you guys mad. frown I really didn't try to. Dee seemed to understand my frustration. I hope you understand where I'm getting at because I LOVE how you guys are helping me.

OK! What happened last night... I sat at their cage for about an hour or two telling them how much I missed them and everything was going to be ok. They kept jumping at the cage door trying to get out. frown Then Pixie jumped for her fith time and just stared into my eyes while I was talking and tilted her head... I busted into tears and had to leave the room so I wouldn't stress them out by crying. When I came back I made sure I was calm. And I just looked into her eyes and she kept tilting her head like a little puppy. (She has done this once before but I've never actually LOOKED into her eyes) I told her I would watch her body language more and that I was so sorry if I ever hurt her. That was a really weird moment... really felt like she was listening to me, she just sat there until I was done. It was REALLY hard to stay there the whole time without crying.

Annnnnnnd. Guess what! LOL I was watching their body language and I noticed when Pixie came out of the pouch when I called her (it's so cute when they come when they are called) her ears were up. Then when I called her some more and she jumped over to me HER EARS went down. I'm like oh god... that's upsetting. Then after a few more jumps to me I noticed her ears went up!

Pixie was so cute! She kept putting her hands on the outside of the cage to try to grab me or something. I made sure not to touch her.

I have to take off but I'll be around later to respond to the rest. wink

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #762463
04/08/09 04:27 PM
04/08/09 04:27 PM

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OK bourbon I read the rest I can respond real quick (sorry to the rest of you guys I'll respond later I promise)

First for the sentence thing. I have to admit I didn't only say that. But when she looked me right in the eyes I said everything is going to be ok.

I'm writing that stuff down right now (stuff you told me to print) as my printer is out of ink.

how you would have reacted if you were the glider?
*If I was in there shoes... no questions asked everything they have done I would've done the same. Why would I trust me? Just because I think I'm going slow with them do they think that? No.

think about what you will in the future will do differently under the same situations thinking of life through the gliders eyes. could they have been prevented how?
Like we talked about before I NEED to watch their body language. Pixie was telling me she was unsure with her ears. And without one of you guys pointing this out I think I would've taken me a lot longer to notice. Even though I EVEN said I don't see any signs. I was stupid not to look there.

How could you have made things easier for the glider?
Like I said before I could've watched her more. I wish I looked into her eyes a lot more before. I'm crushed inside for what I did... even though it doesn't seem like I did anything. In reality she was telling me you're moving too fast but I didn't hear her call. upset It breaks my heart that she was telling me and I didn't listen. cry Ohhhh now I'm getting tears again.

I can't express how thankful I am right now. You guys opened me up to see into their eyes... Me thinking I already did but I didn't. frown And that breaks my heart.

If you think I'm ready for the next step... I think I am. I think WE are.

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #762527
04/08/09 05:48 PM
04/08/09 05:48 PM

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Ok Nicki!! I read your post.

Thank you so much for your support hug2 I can't believe they'd really want to be held? REALLY???
I mean Pixie and Tink would come out immediately when I set the pouch on my lap and come up to snuggle with me. Is that what you mean?

I've relaxed and have my mind set on this. I was just so overwhelmed I think. But when they told me to look into their eyes, they told me over and over. And I did it... and... well I guess it's just hard to explain. It's like if you go into the pound and look into a dogs eyes. It's almost as though their eyes are speaking to you. Maybe I'm crazy. But that's how I felt when Pixie just stared at me and her ears went up. I felt all happy when she just sat there. cloud9

Thanks Nicki hug2

But I have to say I'm SO THANKFUL to Dee and Bourbon. They were the ones that really pushed and pushed and stuck by my side even though I was getting frustrated.
cry THANK YOU!!! hug2

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #762538
04/08/09 06:01 PM
04/08/09 06:01 PM
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Twin Lakes, WI
Nicki Offline
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Originally Posted By: prettyinpink


I've relaxed and have my mind set on this. I was just so overwhelmed I think. But when they told me to look into their eyes, they told me over and over. And I did it... and... well I guess it's just hard to explain. It's like if you go into the pound and look into a dogs eyes. It's almost as though their eyes are speaking to you. Maybe I'm crazy. But that's how I felt when Pixie just stared at me and her ears went up. I felt all happy when she just sat there.


YES!!! That's exactly what they are talking about!! grin

Their eyes speak LOUDLY to you!! If you do this process with them, you will notice a change in their eyes...you'll start to see a lot more content, instead of fear or worry.

And gliders to love to be loved, and holding is part of loving them - of course every glider is different, and some aren't very fond of being held...and some like it more than others. Mak isn't a fan of being held, but my Xylo loves it! You can literally see the content in his eyes.

Keep up the good work - you'll get a lot of reward in the end. hug2


~* Gliders need a voice, they will always have mine (and my heart, too!) *~

I'm always willing to help. 262.206.2888 you can contact me anytime, day or night.

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: Nicki] #762550
04/08/09 06:16 PM
04/08/09 06:16 PM

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Good... I thought I was going crazy! It's like she was almost talking to me and understood what I was saying to her... because her ears perked up!

Nicki... I don't know if you've been reading Monika's thread. But Bourbon said she blocked me... So I hope she comes back. upset This has just turned into a big mess. Everyone is misunderstanding me and it's making me extremely upset. Ugg. I wasn't getting frustrated... I was getting frustrated because everyone was misunderstanding me. NOT because of what I'm doing with my babies. She said I'm not doing it out of heart... But I'm doing it because I feel like I have to. That couldn't be farther from the truth. upset

I'm so glad to hear the progress you made with your babies. smile I hope this thread can do the same... and I'm glad it's helping others.

**I've still been doing the opening of the cage door and saying everything will be ok until you guys think I'm ready... I think I am!**

OH and YES I'm sooooo sorry. I think I've just been in denial really. I just don't know what was wrong with me. Bourbon pointed out that I said she was giving me bruises. I don't know what was on my mind thinking Monika's was the same. I guess the amount of pressure does make a difference. I guess I read her post too fast. Like Pixie would literally (well felt like) try to bite me. If I had my hand by her and I wasn't paying attention... she'd walk over and bite me hard. Gesh that makes me mad. Why would I even say something like that. shakehead THEY ARE NOT THE SAME. They even told me that like 10 times. I'm so stupid... shakehead
I guess I want to think that Pixie is fine... when she's not.

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #762565
04/08/09 06:30 PM
04/08/09 06:30 PM
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Posts: 323
Twin Lakes, WI
Nicki Offline
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Originally Posted By: prettyinpink


Nicki... I don't know if you've been reading Monika's thread. But Bourbon said she blocked me... So I hope she comes back. upset This has just turned into a big mess. Everyone is misunderstanding me and it's making me extremely upset. Ugg. I wasn't getting frustrated... I was getting frustrated because everyone was misunderstanding me. NOT because of what I'm doing with my babies. She said I'm not doing it out of heart... But I'm doing it because I feel like I have to. That couldn't be farther from the truth.




I think the post needs to stay about the gliders, lets just stop worrying about who said what - it leads to things other than making the gliders lives better...

Don't be so negative and beating yourself up about things...from here on out things will be different with your gliders - especially when you get all the steps completed.

I personally don't think your ready for step two just yet...actually I don't think your gliders are ready for step two just yet...although I'm not the one doing the steps with you lol. I think your gliders (and you) need at least one (or two more) day of still giving reassurance - opening the cage door and just saying "everything is going to be okay" Nothing more than that at all.

Deanna and Bourbon will let you know when your ready for the next step grin

Take your time, have patience and you will see more of a reward then just jumping into it.


~* Gliders need a voice, they will always have mine (and my heart, too!) *~

I'm always willing to help. 262.206.2888 you can contact me anytime, day or night.

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: Nicki] #762570
04/08/09 06:33 PM
04/08/09 06:33 PM

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Thanks Nicki... I agree it needs to stop.

I really hope I'm ready! I think I am! smile And yeah I have a tendency of beating myself up tounge I'm really hard on myself.

It was so cute last night when they came when they were called! They jumped right to the door where I was at. Made me a little upset because I knew they were asking to be out. Oh I wish I had video taped that look Pixie gave me with her ears all up. smile

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #762579
04/08/09 06:41 PM
04/08/09 06:41 PM

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I'm following this thread as well! It's very helpful! However, I'm a tiny bit confused...I thought you are supposed to say "everything is going to be ok" when you open the cage door, and ONLY that. Why are you calling them? Or by "calling them" did you mean that you are saying "everything is going to be ok"?

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #762588
04/08/09 06:45 PM
04/08/09 06:45 PM

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Jenny... If you did read what I wrote I said I'll have to admit I've been talking to them and saying other things than Everything is going to be ok. I wrote that right after Bourbon posted that's ALL you say.

I called them and they ran to me cloud9 they always do. And then I looked at them and said everything is going to be ok. Sometimes I add 'Everything is going to be ok, I love you so much'

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #762589
04/08/09 06:45 PM
04/08/09 06:45 PM
Joined: Nov 2008
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Twin Lakes, WI
Nicki Offline
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Originally Posted By: Padros4
I'm following this thread as well! It's very helpful! However, I'm a tiny bit confused...I thought you are supposed to say "everything is going to be ok" when you open the cage door, and ONLY that. Why are you calling them? Or by "calling them" did you mean that you are saying "everything is going to be ok"?


All you are supposed to say is "Everything is going to be okay" That is it - nothing else should be said... grin


~* Gliders need a voice, they will always have mine (and my heart, too!) *~

I'm always willing to help. 262.206.2888 you can contact me anytime, day or night.

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: Nicki] #762592
04/08/09 06:50 PM
04/08/09 06:50 PM

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Thanks for clearing that up! It totally makes sense now that I've gone back and read some of Bourbon's original posts. smile

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #762608
04/08/09 07:24 PM
04/08/09 07:24 PM

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Hi guys, well, I have just gotten through reading this post as well....took me about an hour and a half! Lots of drama!

I don't have my babies yet, but Erika, I feel for you and your troubles.

Bourbon,
I would like to say that I am very into the "process".
I am reading this for future reference and to my children who-like all children--tend to want to rush into things and are so excited to hold and play with our upcoming babies in a couple of weeks.

This is very helpful! My kids have seen "King Kong" and your descriptive narrative about "seeing it through the eyes of gliders" was wonderful!
We can't wait to see what other "steps" are like in the process, and wonder....if you are not going to post them, would you mind sending them to me somehow?

I am reading everything I can get my hands on--trying to prepare for the arrivals of my three babies at the end of this month. I am sure leanring about them and actually having them is totally different, but I always feel that being prepared with knowledge is always better than not. :-)

Thanks!
Jenn

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #762617
04/08/09 07:35 PM
04/08/09 07:35 PM

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Just checking back on this post to see if there was anything. I'm just waiting for step two and I think I'm ready. I've got my lickily treats ready... and everything if that's what step two calls for.

YES Jenn... When she talked about king kong... I was just like WOW! That really set it in my head like glue. It was really weird... Jenn even though you say you understand... when you get your gliders you'll understand the king kong even more. It just blew my mind.

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #762723
04/08/09 10:06 PM
04/08/09 10:06 PM
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Posts: 1,035
Las Vegas, NV/Columbus, OH
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WHEW! Okay, I leave you all alone for 4 hours and look what happens...LOL. I have a long post coming but it might take me a while to get through, so if you're reading this Erica know that I'm working on it right now!


~Deanna~
Chinchillas: Luke, Yoda, and Pronk
Gliders: Nika, Ranger, and DeeGee

(702)250-5236
Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: DeeDancer] #762727
04/08/09 10:08 PM
04/08/09 10:08 PM

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I know Dee!!!! Don't leave roflmao Sorry... I hope Bourbon is ok and isn't upset...

I can't wait to hear what you say! I've been patiently waiting... smile

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: DeeDancer] #762744
04/08/09 10:20 PM
04/08/09 10:20 PM
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Las Vegas, NV/Columbus, OH
DeeDancer Offline
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Quote:
OK! What happened last night... I sat at their cage for about an hour or two telling them how much I missed them and everything was going to be ok. They kept jumping at the cage door trying to get out. Then Pixie jumped for her fith time and just stared into my eyes while I was talking and tilted her head... I busted into tears and had to leave the room so I wouldn't stress them out by crying. When I came back I made sure I was calm. And I just looked into her eyes and she kept tilting her head like a little puppy. (She has done this once before but I've never actually LOOKED into her eyes) I told her I would watch her body language more and that I was so sorry if I ever hurt her. That was a really weird moment... really felt like she was listening to me, she just sat there until I was done. It was REALLY hard to stay there the whole time without crying.

Annnnnnnd. Guess what! LOL I was watching their body language and I noticed when Pixie came out of the pouch when I called her (it's so cute when they come when they are called) her ears were up. Then when I called her some more and she jumped over to me HER EARS went down. I'm like oh god... that's upsetting. Then after a few more jumps to me I noticed her ears went up!

Pixie was so cute! She kept putting her hands on the outside of the cage to try to grab me or something. I made sure not to touch her.



This is EXACTLY what we've been trying to get you to see...it's very hard to explain, especially online, to someone that has never been looking for it before. You are NOT crazy-you can tell a TON from a gliders eyes when you are ACTUALLY looking, actually feeling it. You are definitely, definitely on the right track.

You say that you feel that you are ready. I agree with Nicki (as does Bourbon) in that I don't think your GLIDERS are ready to move on, since it was just last night that you started looking into their eyes. It was just last night that Pixie started putting her ears up when she came to the front of the cage to see you. I think that it would benefit her and that it would help to lay a really strong foundation of trust if you do the same thing you did last night again tonight. You now know how important it is to show Pixie that she can trust you, that when she comes to the front of the cage to see you that there is nothing to be anxious about, that you will continue to watch and listen for HER signs that she is ready to move forward.

So what do YOU think...do you think Pixie is ready to move on or do you think that you should give her another night to connect with you and learn that when she comes to see you she doesn't have to be nervous? Do you think that Pixie can move on tonight, or do you think that there is still more for you two to learn about each other from another night like last night?

Let me know, I'm staying on GC waiting for your answer.


~Deanna~
Chinchillas: Luke, Yoda, and Pronk
Gliders: Nika, Ranger, and DeeGee

(702)250-5236
Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: DeeDancer] #762753
04/08/09 10:41 PM
04/08/09 10:41 PM

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Deanna...

As much as I want to say I want to touch her and pet her... It hurts me but I'm doing it for her. I want to wait another night. When I saw her ears go up my tears started rolling from my eyes and I had to leave the room. I will wait another night not because I feel I have to... I feel that it's better. Her ears didn't go up immediately she came to me about three or four times then on the fifth time she stared at me and her ears went up... and that's when the tears started... LOL.
Will it be bad if I wait another day? I don't know if it's good or not... Because you said two days. But I really feel that one more day would do us good then tomorrow we can move onto the next step.

I want to know what you think because you'll know better than me. But I really think that we shouldn't move on tonight. But tomorrow... Do you feel the same? It's just something I saw in her eyes... I can't even explain it.

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #762769
04/08/09 11:03 PM
04/08/09 11:03 PM
Joined: Aug 2008
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Las Vegas, NV/Columbus, OH
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It will definitely NOT be bad if you wait another day. Like I said, Bourbon, Nicki and I all think that it is a good idea to give it another night like last night, so now that you agree that it's a good idea, we are all in agreement clap. I really do think that another night of talking will be a GOOD thing for you and Pixie.

It's okay if tonight it still takes her a few times to raise her ears up. You are ALREADY making progress with her! I do think that after tonight you & Pixie will be ready to move on. Tomorrow I'd like for you to make a post letting everyone know how tonight goes, and after you do that I will make a post letting you know what to do tomorrow night.

Keep up the good work!! hug2


~Deanna~
Chinchillas: Luke, Yoda, and Pronk
Gliders: Nika, Ranger, and DeeGee

(702)250-5236
Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: DeeDancer] #762771
04/08/09 11:06 PM
04/08/09 11:06 PM

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Great! I'm glad you were thinking the same thing... I was a little nervous... LOL

So just do exactly the same thing as last night? No touching just same thing? smile THANK YOU SO MUCH! I'm glad I'm doing good. You guys are the reason, I couldn't do this without you.

Thank you so much! hug2

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #762778
04/08/09 11:12 PM
04/08/09 11:12 PM

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I have to take off... so hopefully your answer is going to be what I'm thinking. I'm just going to do what I did last night.

Thanks again hug2

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #762781
04/08/09 11:17 PM
04/08/09 11:17 PM
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Las Vegas, NV/Columbus, OH
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Posts: 1,035
Las Vegas, NV/Columbus, OH
Yep, exactly the same thing as last night. Keep looking into their eyes and keep watching their body language, just like last night. Tomorrow during the day, same thing as before...just open the cage door, tell them everything is going to be okay, close the cage door and leave. I'll let you know tomorrow what to do tomorrow night.


~Deanna~
Chinchillas: Luke, Yoda, and Pronk
Gliders: Nika, Ranger, and DeeGee

(702)250-5236
Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #762784
04/08/09 11:18 PM
04/08/09 11:18 PM
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 5,336
Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
B
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis
Bourbon  Offline
Serious Glideritis
B

Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 5,336
Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
Erica I am proud of you, that was a very responsible mature decision.

drama in the pastr lets keep this thread on your gliders, and the process at hand.

good luck tonight with your babies. Let us know how things went.

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: Bourbon] #762799
04/08/09 11:38 PM
04/08/09 11:38 PM

P
prettyinpink
Unregistered
prettyinpink
Unregistered
P



Just coming on real quick!

Deanna... GREAT! I'll be sure to do just that tonight.

Thanks Bourbon hug2 I'm glad you guys are happy... Hopefully me and my gliders are both improving. smile

I'll be sure to give an update. My babies don't get up until around midnight - one or two.

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: ] #762842
04/09/09 03:16 AM
04/09/09 03:16 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 323
Twin Lakes, WI
Nicki Offline
Glider Lover
Nicki  Offline
Glider Lover

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 323
Twin Lakes, WI
clap
Yay!

I'm a little late coming back into this thread...but I'm glad you waited until tomorrow - it is the definite mature decision! I back you up all the way!! Your on your way!! Keep up the good work!! grin


~* Gliders need a voice, they will always have mine (and my heart, too!) *~

I'm always willing to help. 262.206.2888 you can contact me anytime, day or night.

Re: Biting. Does anyone have suggestions? [Re: Nicki] #762932
04/09/09 09:33 AM
04/09/09 09:33 AM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 21,060
Kansas
L
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
LSardou  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
L

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 21,060
Kansas
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