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Leu to Leu Breeding Information Only #766481
04/17/09 04:20 PM
04/17/09 04:20 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 282
In
heartlandglider Offline OP
Glider Explorer
heartlandglider  Offline OP
Glider Explorer

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 282
In
I have occasionally been posting continuing updates on my leu to leu pair and their offspring.
To date Snow and Frosty have had 5-6 pregnancies and all joeys have been born normal.
I retained 1 of their girls, who is paired with a mosaic and 1 of their boys, who is also paired with a mosaic. They have had 3-4 pregnancies and all joeys have been normal.
I will give another update when Snow and Frosty's great grandchildren are also producing, which should be in the next couple of months.
Please, this is one pair of this combination and submitted here for info for those interested in this type of pairing.
It is personal preference whether you want to pair two leus, provided their pedigrees aren't too related. There are those that see nothing wrong with this pairing and those that do. If you are unsure of this type of pairing, then study it out first so you can make the choice that is right for you.


Dianne Kieffer
Heartland Gliders



Re: Leu to Leu Breeding Information Only [Re: heartlandglider] #767315
04/19/09 10:38 AM
04/19/09 10:38 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,799
St. Johns, Florida
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Srlb  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,799
St. Johns, Florida
Dianne, I have been following along...

You say the joeys that you have kept are normal and their offspring are normal. I would like to know is this just the outside appearance that is normal or have you also had blood work and xrays done to see if all of that is normal as well?

I know that Dr.Tristan has the ability to also do ultrasounds, do you have a vet local that can and would do that as well, to check out the internal organs?

How old are all of these guys now?

(Thanks for keeping us posted on this matter as well. thumb)


Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love´┐Ż Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: Leu to Leu Breeding Information Only [Re: Srlb] #767541
04/19/09 05:36 PM
04/19/09 05:36 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,645
Ohio
Guerita135 Offline
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Guerita135  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,645
Ohio
Thanks a great idea Peggy!

I'd be interested to know as well. I think that it's too early to be breeding leus together just yet, but since you're breeding them then if you can afford to get a little extra vet work done then it could certainly go a long way in helping us to know if there really is possible harm to breeding leu x leu(distantly related, of course).

There could be hidden problems, like with the sterile mosaic lines. As far as I know, there haven't been any unusual deaths from the sterile mosaic lines and they all LOOK healthy, but it was recently pointed out that there have been males from that line that have gone in to get neutered and were missing their testes. :\ So, although gliders seem healthy, there could still be stuff wrong inside that is unseen. I think an unltrasound would be a great way to get a good look without being invasive and I'm not sure how much blood would tell.

Keep us posted! Although I, personally, am against breeding leu x leu, I'm still interested in any new findings about gliders. wink


~Nicole~

Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy! grin
Re: Leu to Leu Breeding Information Only [Re: Guerita135] #767594
04/19/09 07:08 PM
04/19/09 07:08 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 9,173
Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis
Judie  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 9,173
Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
the offspring of the Leu to Leu pairing... I would take it that they are paired with Non Sterile Mosaics.

If this is correct, then there should not be an issue with missing reproductive organs. This problme has only been seen in male offspring of the Sterile Line which is seen in Tilly's male offspring with females passing this sex linked trait onto their daughters so all males are usually sterile. Tilly is the orig Ring Tailed Mosaic Female.

Example: Color Blindness in humans is a sex linked trait seen in humans. It also has degrees as to how one is affected much like the problem seen in the males from the sterile line.

Re: Leu to Leu Breeding Information Only [Re: Judie] #767613
04/19/09 07:41 PM
04/19/09 07:41 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,645
Ohio
Guerita135 Offline
Glider Addict
Guerita135  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,645
Ohio
Judie, I wasn't implying that they'd be missing testes. wink I was just using the mosaic problem as an example of gliders LOOKING healthy, but not actually being so.


~Nicole~

Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy! grin
Re: Leu to Leu Breeding Information Only [Re: Guerita135] #767699
04/19/09 09:44 PM
04/19/09 09:44 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 9,173
Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis
Judie  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 9,173
Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
The Sterility issue has always been know in the Sterile Line of Mosaics. With that said.. the sterile line mosaics have not had any more health issues than a normal gray glider.

I have had many of those males neutered over the past two or three years with the results being a set of gonads of normal size to very tiny undeveloped ones, to only one gonad and then a few where none were present. However, I never had a male opened up to find and remove the gonads that were thought to be internal. I think the results from CKB's male, Patches was the first male where exploritory surgery was done with findings of no reproducticve organs.

Also, I do not see an issue here with sterility or any other Health Issue for that fact in the Leu to Leu breeding if "not" Inbreeding or linebreeding.

Most of the concern expressed of the Leu to Leu Pairings was the possibility of others wanting to pair their gliders the same... Leu to Leu. With the lines all combined and not being breed out more than several generations... Leu to Leu pairings would just increase the potential of even more tightly line bred Leus.

While I do not approve of Leu to Leu pairings at this time it may be possible to do in another five years or so with a more deversified gene pool.

Please do not take anything I say as personal as it is not my intention. Never meant to tread on anyone's toes. thumb




Re: Leu to Leu Breeding Information Only [Re: Judie] #769063
04/22/09 06:45 PM
04/22/09 06:45 PM

E
ErichB
Unregistered
ErichB
Unregistered
E



Hello,

Um I personally have no experience in breeding but I've heard that one of the reasons people do not breed a pair of leus is because of the result that the OP has informed us of.

From what I've been told it is much better to use a female leu and a male het for a leu. But then again I also maybe wrong. I hope I've helped and that someone that knows more about this then I do can shed a lot more light for you.

~Erich


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