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Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: ] #748532
03/12/09 11:13 AM
03/12/09 11:13 AM

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dblondfemme
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Sorry...I call the penii since it is forked so that makes two on the end. And and I also say uterii since they have more than one. And yes.. since they have a separated vagina as well as a divided uterus (please correct me if I am wrong). So why couldn't this glider have the uterii as well as ovaries and just that forked penis.... as an added extra? I guess unless an utrasound is done...(if they do this with gliders) would show what parts are in there.

Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: ] #748548
03/12/09 11:37 AM
03/12/09 11:37 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline
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Originally Posted By: caliejean86
I am going to tell my husband that his is.

Thanks. I'll be cleaning coffee off my monitor, and possibly buying a new keyboard after that one.

And thank you for his adorable face! He is just SO handsome ... and he has that "still a baby" look that Dylan has! I love it! Kiss his smushy face for me!


Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #748556
03/12/09 11:47 AM
03/12/09 11:47 AM

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I feel stupid now! I meant to say ultrasound! LoL!
But your right. I didn't think about the anesthesia part. That probably wouldn't be a good idea unless it was medically necessary!
I hope he lives a VERY long (and spoiled) life! You have one special suggie!


smile

Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: ] #748601
03/12/09 01:06 PM
03/12/09 01:06 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 13,748
Vincennes, IN, USA
suggiemom1980 Offline
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OK. This is all new and fascinating to me so here I go with another prob dumb question. IF s/he were able to produce viable sperm, would s/he be physically able to impregnate him/herself?

I absolutely love that precious little face! How adorable!!!


Connie

812-890-9734, 24/7 Emergencies/Joey issues

SmallWorldSuggies

"The greater the challenge, the sweeter the reward"

"Glide free :rbridge: Silly "Ozball" Ozzie. You left us 11/21/12..way too soon. You're forever loved, remembered, missed."
Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: suggiemom1980] #748630
03/12/09 02:20 PM
03/12/09 02:20 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,224
North Fort Worth - TX
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Testicles do tend to show up on xrays- atleast when on the outside of the body.I'm sure they would show up on the inside as well, just need a vet who knows what their looking at. I'd suspect they would look like a tumor mass or appear to look like a blockage.

In this pict- you can clearly see Zero's pom on the xray.

http://s63.photobucket.com/albums/h121/jacknsally92/Zero/?action=view&current=zerovd1.jpg


Ñancy
~Always on my mind & in my heart Jack, Sally & Serenity~


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Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: jacknsally] #748656
03/12/09 03:32 PM
03/12/09 03:32 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,305
Florida, USA
oakley Offline
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Deuce certainly is a special suggie!

Thanks for sharing him with us... now I'm going to have to do more research... could this be linked to the leu gene somehow???


Meghan

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{{ }}


Suggies: Basil, Mausi, Bagheera/Baloo, & the Trio
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Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: oakley] #748660
03/12/09 03:40 PM
03/12/09 03:40 PM

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Very interesting!

Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: ] #748679
03/12/09 05:12 PM
03/12/09 05:12 PM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 11,583
Sycamore Illinois
Karin Offline OP
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Karin  Offline OP
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Absolutely not linked to the leu gene whatsoever. It just *happens*.

Just waiting to hear what the vet might think/want to do. I will not put Deuce through anything that is not warranted, however.

Karin


Miss Lily and Bud
Prada and Armani
Tessa, Deuce and Cami

Tira and Misu angel Deja and Vu

Glider Daydreams



"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass...It is about learning to
dance in the rain!"
Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: Karin] #748686
03/12/09 05:36 PM
03/12/09 05:36 PM
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Posts: 3,843
Lisle, Illinois
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Wow that is so interesting Karin, I wonder what makes it happen? I was just telling a friend about hermaphrodite gliders the other day!

OT: I go to Dr. Ness too. Do you come out here to see see him? If you do you should pop by for a visit next time! I live two minutes from his office smile



:leu: Sugaree Gliders :rtmo:


Simba, Nala, Rain, Snow & Sugaree

Shadowdancer, Sugar Magnolia, Sunshine Daydream, Winter, Twinkle, Twilight, Everlette, Sparkle, Polar Bear, Indigo & Willow








Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: SugareeErin] #748740
03/12/09 06:52 PM
03/12/09 06:52 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,749
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
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80 acres of paradise in KS
Karin, you waited so long for joeys, you were just entitled to a very "special" joey!

Ok, here's my theory. In humans, twin embryos can "fuse" together in the extremely early stages. This can cause hermaphradites and can also allow one person to have two sets of DNA, depending on what part of the body the tissue is taken from. Because the one human is actually it's own twin also. If this "fusing" happens a bit later, conjoined twins are formed. Since no one has ever considered doing any studies on gliders of this nature, I tend to think the same could happen with gliders as does with humans.

My Spryte was also a hermaphradite. One of my vets wasn't surprised at all and said hermaphradites can happen in any species of animal. The other vet was a little surprised but not totally. Mainly because she had never heard of a hermaphradite glider before.

Spryte had one joey that came oop alive but only lived about 15 minutes. When Spryte was about a month along with the joey ip, she broke her leg and had to go through some extensive surgery. She was under anesthsia for about 2 1/2 hours and then the pain meds, the antibiotics etc. We (the vet and I) didn't expect the joey to live at all and expected Spryte to pull her. (her mate was neutered just before Spryte broke her leg if I remember right) Well, Spryte carried the joey about 3 weeks longer than she should have and yet the joey was still severely under developed and weighed only 5.5 grams oop. We (the vet and I) assumed that the joey didn't survive due to Sprytes broken leg because we didn't discover Spryte's penis until several months later. We (the vet and I) have no idea if the joey had genetic issues or if the issues were caused by all Spryte went through when she broke her leg. And boy was THAT a surprise. Spryte was a black beauty.


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: Dancing] #748767
03/12/09 07:38 PM
03/12/09 07:38 PM

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DelilahsMom
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Twins that fuse in utero is called a chimera.

I think your little one is adorable!

Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: ] #748772
03/12/09 07:49 PM
03/12/09 07:49 PM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 11,583
Sycamore Illinois
Karin Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
Karin  Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 11,583
Sycamore Illinois
Thank you for sharing Spryte's story Teresa. heart

Hopefully, the 3rd known owner will come post to this thread also. Since we only know of 3 at the moment, it would be great to have all the same stories in one place.

Karin


Miss Lily and Bud
Prada and Armani
Tessa, Deuce and Cami

Tira and Misu angel Deja and Vu

Glider Daydreams



"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass...It is about learning to
dance in the rain!"
Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: Karin] #748865
03/12/09 11:50 PM
03/12/09 11:50 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,321
Maryland
Holly1221 Offline
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Maryland
for some reason this makes me think of those tree frogs that can change thier sex. what i mean is, could this be happening to help keep the species alive if it were to near extinction [not that it ever would, i'm sure].

thank you Karin for sharing this with us; you as well Teresa. i agree with your opionion to just let him be a little glider. having things done "just to see" is never fun. been there, done that.


Holly & Jeff heart
Misos Phoenix Keegan Knuckles // Asa Etienne Kyrian // Cheyenne Peyton Godiva

RIP my sweet gangel babies, mommy loves you!
Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: Holly1221] #749081
03/13/09 02:26 PM
03/13/09 02:26 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,979
Wisconsin
Feather Offline
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Feather  Offline
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Wisconsin
I know that I tend to relate to horses and other animals I am experienced in a lot. A true hermaphrodite will also have female organs.

In horses a hermaphrodite is a very dangerous animal, because they are so confused by both hormones in their body they don't know what to act like, surgery to remove the testes in the abdominal cavity it the best course of action with a horse.

I understand it is way to invasive with a sugar glider and I don't blame you for not wanting to do the surgery. You will find in time that little Duece will exhibit behavior from both sexes.

I hope he has a long life, and after 12 or 15+ years of good healthy glider life when he does cross the Rainbow bridge it will be interesting to hear what the veterinarians have to say during his necropsy. I am sure the results will be published in some veterinary journels.


Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Mister Peanut & Big Mack
Fur-Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Cho, Toothless, Maverick & Maharet :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ, Light Fury, Madison & T'Pring :rtmo:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker, Khayman and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:

Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: Feather] #749455
03/14/09 11:29 AM
03/14/09 11:29 AM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 11,583
Sycamore Illinois
Karin Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
Karin  Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous

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Posts: 11,583
Sycamore Illinois
Latest update. I have spoken with Dr. Ness and he has offered to examine him, and take pictures, etc. for the updated glider journal publication he is presenting soon. So, we will know more once I get an appointment (it's a hike to drive there for me.) We plan on getting together next week, so stay tuned : ).

Karin


Miss Lily and Bud
Prada and Armani
Tessa, Deuce and Cami

Tira and Misu angel Deja and Vu

Glider Daydreams



"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass...It is about learning to
dance in the rain!"
Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: Karin] #751268
03/18/09 08:47 AM
03/18/09 08:47 AM

A
Arya
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Arya
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I had to check on the hermaphrodites occurring 1 in 5. It's more like 1 in 2,000 or 1 in 3,000 which I find reassuring. Your little one is just so sweet.

Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: ] #751842
03/19/09 05:24 PM
03/19/09 05:24 PM

L
LJVenable
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LJVenable
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How interesting! just be sure to tell him lots and lots that hes a little boy so hes not confused! hehe.

we ran a call once(I'm a medic) on a pregnant hermaphrodite, for whoever was asking. Interesting...very, very interesting person. Its a one in a million shot that a true hermaphrodite can actually reproduce, and its kind of like an ectopic pregnancy, where the fetus is not viable.. He needed to have it surgically removed. Anyways.. enough of my job sneaking into real life!

Gorgeous baby!

Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: ] #751899
03/19/09 08:23 PM
03/19/09 08:23 PM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 11,583
Sycamore Illinois
Karin Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
Karin  Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 11,583
Sycamore Illinois
We are back from the vet visit smile . Deuce does indeed have a pouch and a penis. Where do we go from here? I suppose down the line we may learn something more from him, but hopefully, that will be many years from now. He was so well behaved at the vet and I was so proud. He's a special one. He will be housed with Tessa and Cami and hopefully that will be accomplished this weekend!

His pouch is a normal pouch, and his penis is normal. I really don't know what else to add.

Dr. Ness did comment this type of thing may be more prevalent with the color breeding though, but time will tell.

Karin


Miss Lily and Bud
Prada and Armani
Tessa, Deuce and Cami

Tira and Misu angel Deja and Vu

Glider Daydreams



"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass...It is about learning to
dance in the rain!"
Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: Karin] #751917
03/19/09 09:30 PM
03/19/09 09:30 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,843
Lisle, Illinois
SugareeErin Offline
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Lisle, Illinois
Very interesting. So his pouch is fully formed as well?

I wanted to meet you and your special little boy today but I had to work frown





:leu: Sugaree Gliders :rtmo:


Simba, Nala, Rain, Snow & Sugaree

Shadowdancer, Sugar Magnolia, Sunshine Daydream, Winter, Twinkle, Twilight, Everlette, Sparkle, Polar Bear, Indigo & Willow








Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: SugareeErin] #752134
03/20/09 12:28 PM
03/20/09 12:28 PM
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Wichita Falls, Texas
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Good boy Duece!

Good luck this weekend. We all want pictures when you get them together! heart


~~~ Crystal ~~~

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Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: ] #762813
04/09/09 01:11 AM
04/09/09 01:11 AM

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ZiggyandZowie
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ZiggyandZowie
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Wow... What an interesting and beautiful little boy!

Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: ] #793333
06/13/09 04:01 PM
06/13/09 04:01 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,749
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
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Glideritis Anonymous

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80 acres of paradise in KS
For those that might find this tread again, I thought I would add some photos of Spryte's anatomy. Her hiney end is all wet because at the time she had very loose stools due to meds and I had to bathe her numerous times a day. It was during one of these baths that I discovered her penis.
Because she did have a joey, I consider her a female. Though it is VERY obvious she had extra parts.

Attached Files
P8220137.jpg (155 downloads)
P82201402.JPG (154 downloads)
P82201363.JPG (155 downloads)

620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: Dancing] #793393
06/13/09 06:09 PM
06/13/09 06:09 PM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 11,583
Sycamore Illinois
Karin Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
Karin  Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 11,583
Sycamore Illinois
Good pics Teresa, thank you.

I never replied, but yes his pouch is normal as well as his penis. He does perfom as a male also. He is doing very well...a little on the thin side in my book, but otherwise, super happy!

Karin


Miss Lily and Bud
Prada and Armani
Tessa, Deuce and Cami

Tira and Misu angel Deja and Vu

Glider Daydreams



"Life is not about waiting for the storm to pass...It is about learning to
dance in the rain!"
Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: Karin] #793405
06/13/09 06:24 PM
06/13/09 06:24 PM

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Babydevilsangel
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Babydevilsangel
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Thanks for the pics Teresa.

I wonder if it can happen the other way around?

With the poms and no pouch, and the uteri and no penis??

Re: Deuce, a special boy (hermaphrodite) [Re: ] #793458
06/13/09 09:01 PM
06/13/09 09:01 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,749
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
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Joined: Sep 2004
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80 acres of paradise in KS
I suppose anything is possible.


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
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