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Persistent Dehydration #830475
08/31/09 08:23 AM
08/31/09 08:23 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,511
Texas
Jackie_Chans_Mom Offline OP
Glider Addict
Jackie_Chans_Mom  Offline OP
Glider Addict

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,511
Texas
I have a little one here who has us stumped, so I'm looking for any and all ideas.

Long story short - he is dehydrated pretty much every day and has been since coming to me in July.

Artex was relinquished because he became ill and his parent at the time "did not sign up for taking care of sick animals." Based on the symptoms she described, I had her meet me at the vet office to relinquish him.

vet visit one - he presented with droopy ears, a bad smell, extreme lethargy, crabbing and lunging/biting when he got up the energy to move, and severe dehydration.
Fecals were clear - no signs of ANYthing. We were unable to get urine for a UA due to the dehydration. It was clear that there was something wrong - SOMEthing was causing the dehydration. vet did not feel he was strong/healthy enough for much more testing at the time, and really did not think he would live much longer.
Sub-Q fluids were administered in the office and we decided to treat for a parasite and an infection just to try to get to the cause of the dehydration - suspecting that he probably had a UTI or some other infection.

So, he was prescribed Panacur and TMPS. Throughout the course of treatment, I had to administer sub-q fluids twice daily. Artex really perked up and began eating and playing like a normal little one.

Treatment ended. Artex is active (but sluggish early on) and no longer crabby/lunging/biting. He eats everything he is given every night.

He also drinks 2-4 OUNCES of liquid every night. Yet, he remains dehydrated. I have to sub-q 5-6 days per week/ 1-3 times per day depending upon his need.

Liquids I offer are filtered water, pedialyte, gatorade, and/or a 50/50 mix of gatorade/pedialyte and water. He always has fresh water in his water bottle. These liquids are being offered (and taken) in ADDITION to his regular fresh water.

Because the dehydration persisted, we returned to the vet. Again, fecals and UA are negative. We decide to culture the urine just to be sure, but still find nothing. We treat again just in case there is a low grade infection that we are not finding. This time treat with Clavamox.

No change. To this date (7 weeks later), Artex remains active (after fluids given) with a good appetite, drinks 2-4 ounces of liquid each night, eliminates well. Yet, he is dehydrated. He is sluggish when he first wakes, so I started waking him in the afternoon (between 2-4) and offering liquids or sub-quing if necessary. By doing this, I have been able to decrease the need to sub-q to about once per week.

Just to be sure I am not crazy or overlooking anything, I had Shawna give him a look over and tent test and all when she was visiting a few weeks ago. His dehydration ranges from mild to severe. Poor thing is tent tested more than any glider ever before. Shawna observed his dehydration at moderate-severe and also at mild.

We are headed to Tulsa for a visit with Dr. Walsh - his third vet visit. This time we hope to be able to draw blood. But, I don't know what else to do for the little guy or what else to look for. Any ideas or suggestions are very welcome. Shawna or one of my other friends can/will check in here and relay any ideas to me as I will be without internet for a the next few days (I will check in just before we leave, though).

Thanks in advance for any suggestions or thoughts


~~ Val B ~~ 806-803-0318
Daily giving the abused, unloved, unwanted and neglected SOMETHING TO BELIEVE IN

PLEASE COMPLETE YOUR SUGAR GROUP SURVEYS!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: Persistent Dehydration [Re: Jackie_Chans_Mom] #830488
08/31/09 08:40 AM
08/31/09 08:40 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,224
North Fort Worth - TX
jacknsally Offline
Glider Addict
jacknsally  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,224
North Fort Worth - TX
aww poor lil one. I don't really have any answers but I know what your going through. I had a similar situation with my Sally. My Sally got severly dehydrated once, and was near death. After getting her back and stable, fecal and urine tests were all ran. The only one we didn't do was blood, because she was a petite glider and dealing with the whole dehydration.

Basically everything always came back normal. With the dehydration, my vet explained to me that it was going to be something she will battle with the rest of her life. Not exactly sure why but he said once they go that severe and come back from it, their systems are just not the same. I had to do as you are with offering extra fluids throughout the day. I also switched to the veggie relish /fruit smoothie textures because they were a way to offer extra fluids through feeding.

I kick myself for not getting a necropsy done on Sally. Sally was my first and I just couldn't emotionally do it at the time.


Ñancy
~Always on my mind & in my heart Jack, Sally & Serenity~


Mobmilli's Boutique
Re: Persistent Dehydration [Re: Jackie_Chans_Mom] #830492
08/31/09 08:44 AM
08/31/09 08:44 AM

S
shyshysdad
Unregistered
shyshysdad
Unregistered
S



Problem reglating his temp maybe? Is thier a way to take temp reading?

Last edited by shyshysdad; 08/31/09 08:46 AM.
Re: Persistent Dehydration [Re: ] #830519
08/31/09 09:44 AM
08/31/09 09:44 AM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,138
Lutz Florida
CandyOtte Offline
Serious Glideritis
CandyOtte  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,138
Lutz Florida
Val - if it were a child I would suspect something like Diabetes insipidus. Drinking 2-4 oz of water daily seems like a lot for a single glider. The thirst/dehydration and lethargy certainly fit. Does he appear to have an increased volume of urine output or possibly even pee in his pouch?

I'm not sure how you would determine urine volume other than by observation of his cage liner to see if it shows more moisture than you see in other glider cages.

One way you could measure his urine output would be to put him in a small cage for 24 hours. Weigh a disposable diaper or puppy pad DRY and use it under a grate in the cage. (the diaper or puppy pad would hold the urine and less would evaporate than just a paper liner.) You could do the same thing with paper towels but you would have to weigh and calculate every hour or so since they dry quickly. After 24 hours shake out all the dry waste the weigh it again and see if his output in gms is GREATER than the volume he is drinking and being given sub-Q.

added thought you may also want to weigh his pouch when clean and dry then again in the evening to see if he is actually peeing in the pouch.

Last edited by OtteMom; 08/31/09 09:45 AM. Reason: added thought

Candy Otte
& the Glider Kids
Sassy, Corky, Mehitabel & Missy
Wacco, Yacco, & Dot
Mindy, Kanobles, Elmo, & Chipper

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Re: Persistent Dehydration [Re: CandyOtte] #830523
08/31/09 09:57 AM
08/31/09 09:57 AM

L
lovely1inred
Unregistered
lovely1inred
Unregistered
L



Diabetes was my first thought too.

Re: Persistent Dehydration [Re: ] #830552
08/31/09 10:58 AM
08/31/09 10:58 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,356
Austin, TX
USMom Offline
Serious Glideritis
USMom  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,356
Austin, TX
He is a very happy baby. Plays and runs and eats like mad, but my first day there, he was severly dehydrated, but the next day almost not at all, the next day mild. It's strange. How would you even treat diabetes in a glider?


Shawna
Who are you networked with? Networking could save your gliders life. Create one now.

Re: Persistent Dehydration [Re: USMom] #830565
08/31/09 11:17 AM
08/31/09 11:17 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,799
St. Johns, Florida
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Srlb  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,799
St. Johns, Florida
Going in to see Tim today Val at 2, will print out your post and take it to him and see what he thinks. Will call you later after I leave there and let you know what he says. thumb


Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love� Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: Persistent Dehydration [Re: Srlb] #831001
08/31/09 11:35 PM
08/31/09 11:35 PM

J
Jen_S
Unregistered
Jen_S
Unregistered
J



Diabetes and/or kidney issues come to mind for me. This sounds like a cat with renal disease just in that he is unable to maintain his own hydration. I'll be praying for this little one though!

Re: Persistent Dehydration [Re: ] #831008
09/01/09 12:16 AM
09/01/09 12:16 AM

B
BelladonnasMom
Unregistered
BelladonnasMom
Unregistered
B



The only thing I can think of that would cause persistent dehydration and extreme thirst/lethargy is diabetes. Or at least pancreatic malfunction... possibly pancreatic cancer? I would definately have a CBC done this next visit. I would be very interested to see what his blood sugar and white cell counts are. Too bad there's no such thing as a glider endocrinologist... it seriously sounds endocrine system related.

Re: Persistent Dehydration [Re: ] #831094
09/01/09 08:19 AM
09/01/09 08:19 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,356
Austin, TX
USMom Offline
Serious Glideritis
USMom  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,356
Austin, TX
Val is in Tulsa today, taking him in, I think they are going to be doing blood work, but can't remember for sure. I'll let you know what I find out, or I'm sure she will, too.


Shawna
Who are you networked with? Networking could save your gliders life. Create one now.

Re: Persistent Dehydration [Re: USMom] #831391
09/01/09 07:26 PM
09/01/09 07:26 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 712
Red Oak Texas
anjill_tree Offline
Glider Guardian
anjill_tree  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 712
Red Oak Texas
IT sounds like Kidney disease, which can be caused by Diabetes , or some other hormonal imbalance.


Cathy Hart

Support Aspergers and Autism Research, help put the pieces together.
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Re: Persistent Dehydration [Re: anjill_tree] #831399
09/01/09 07:45 PM
09/01/09 07:45 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 13,748
Vincennes, IN, USA
suggiemom1980 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
suggiemom1980  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 13,748
Vincennes, IN, USA
I think Bourbon is the expert of dehydration. You might try asking her. Many prayers being sent for this little one! Hope to hear an update soon!


Connie

812-890-9734, 24/7 Emergencies/Joey issues

SmallWorldSuggies

"The greater the challenge, the sweeter the reward"

"Glide free :rbridge: Silly "Ozball" Ozzie. You left us 11/21/12..way too soon. You're forever loved, remembered, missed."
Re: Persistent Dehydration [Re: suggiemom1980] #831442
09/01/09 08:49 PM
09/01/09 08:49 PM

P
Paige
Unregistered
Paige
Unregistered
P



I'm Not much help at all right now, but you have my prayers.

Re: Persistent Dehydration [Re: ] #831452
09/01/09 09:27 PM
09/01/09 09:27 PM

S
shyshysdad
Unregistered
shyshysdad
Unregistered
S



I still say look at the body heat cause we all no gliders have a issue controling thier body heat.
if shes staying to hot =dehydration so to try to make up for it shes drinking extra
non control yet she stays dehydraed and still she drinks alot has to be body contol and shes drinking all that water to counter the sweating.
Just a guess but it makes sence to me on what ive read
most everything mentioned has tell tell signs
this wouldnt cause shes trying to control her body temp by other means its well worth looking into and could be taken care of by a fan or coolar room.
cant cost must to montor her body temp I'm sure
I'm just trying to think outside the box noing your knowlage of gliders I think thats whats needed here.
good luck to you both keep us updated.

Re: Persistent Dehydration [Re: ] #832084
09/02/09 09:40 PM
09/02/09 09:40 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,511
Texas
Jackie_Chans_Mom Offline OP
Glider Addict
Jackie_Chans_Mom  Offline OP
Glider Addict

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,511
Texas
Well, we had our vet visit.

It was very depressing. Despite the fact that Artex was dehydrated in the vet's office and that fecals, UA AND blood were tested, STILL we have no answers.
All the blood levels were good except BUN, which we expected, cause he is, afterall, dehydrated. Liver values, renal values, glucose levels, calcium, etc.... all fine.

*sigh* so, I will continue to treat him as I have been and test again in a few weeks. Dr. Walsh still thinks that there is some kidney involvement, so wants me to switch him to a low protein diet and continue to provide fluids as necessary.

I so wish we had found SOMEthing - how depressing.
On another note, it was a super fantastic weekend for the SUGAR group - a lot of exciting things and progress for us. So, that helps take away the disappointment.


~~ Val B ~~ 806-803-0318
Daily giving the abused, unloved, unwanted and neglected SOMETHING TO BELIEVE IN

PLEASE COMPLETE YOUR SUGAR GROUP SURVEYS!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: Persistent Dehydration [Re: Jackie_Chans_Mom] #833922
09/06/09 12:37 AM
09/06/09 12:37 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 652
Dallas, TX
sandbat Offline
Glider Guardian
sandbat  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 652
Dallas, TX
I am so sorry, Val! I hope that something can be found to help this little guy out.

Re: Persistent Dehydration [Re: sandbat] #833930
09/06/09 01:36 AM
09/06/09 01:36 AM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 13,454
South Africa
G
Gizmogirl Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Gizmogirl  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
G

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 13,454
South Africa
How is Artex doing?


Casper & Liezl
:grey:Gizzy, Boesman, Muchu, Kiamon, Sky & Boog:grey:
A glider's eyes have the power to speak a great language

RIP Sugar 2009 & Kaida 2013
Re: Persistent Dehydration [Re: Gizmogirl] #833963
09/06/09 08:19 AM
09/06/09 08:19 AM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,511
Texas
Jackie_Chans_Mom Offline OP
Glider Addict
Jackie_Chans_Mom  Offline OP
Glider Addict

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,511
Texas
Artex is about the same. He is sweet, active, curious, funny and perfect, except for the dehydration every day.

He is only about 9 months old, so it is heartbreaking to not be able to find what is wrong with him. He is drinking slightly less each day and the dehydration is not worse, so maybe that is a good thing. We started the low protein diet and he is eating it great.

I am working to find him a cage mate and will be keeping him here until we find some answers and get him well.


~~ Val B ~~ 806-803-0318
Daily giving the abused, unloved, unwanted and neglected SOMETHING TO BELIEVE IN

PLEASE COMPLETE YOUR SUGAR GROUP SURVEYS!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: Persistent Dehydration [Re: Jackie_Chans_Mom] #833979
09/06/09 09:09 AM
09/06/09 09:09 AM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 13,454
South Africa
G
Gizmogirl Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Gizmogirl  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
G

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 13,454
South Africa
Thanks for the update.

Staying dehydrated is strange. Did you try to email different vets to get different opinions? I would love to know what is the cause of this.

Poor little Artex. I'll keep him close to my heart.


Casper & Liezl
:grey:Gizzy, Boesman, Muchu, Kiamon, Sky & Boog:grey:
A glider's eyes have the power to speak a great language

RIP Sugar 2009 & Kaida 2013
Re: Persistent Dehydration [Re: Gizmogirl] #834323
09/06/09 11:17 PM
09/06/09 11:17 PM

B
BabyLoveGliders
Unregistered
BabyLoveGliders
Unregistered
B



Hey Val,
did you ever call Bourbon?... Baybe had severe dehydration issue for a couple of years! Bourbon might really be some help to you and this little one!

Re: Persistent Dehydration [Re: ] #836562
09/11/09 01:50 PM
09/11/09 01:50 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 13,454
South Africa
G
Gizmogirl Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Gizmogirl  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
G

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 13,454
South Africa
How is Artex doing?


Casper & Liezl
:grey:Gizzy, Boesman, Muchu, Kiamon, Sky & Boog:grey:
A glider's eyes have the power to speak a great language

RIP Sugar 2009 & Kaida 2013

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