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Sick Glider Shaking and Twitching, second opinion #864224
11/09/09 07:11 PM
11/09/09 07:11 PM

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bksmu1
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I went out of town this weekend, leaving my gliders at home for my mom and brother to take care of. When I got back today, 2 of them were acting very funny. I knew something was definitely wrong so I brought them to the vet. They have a respiratory infection, so I have them on antibiotics now. But I still think something else may be wrong and I can't seem to find anything about it online. She is twitching and shaking. She also crabs when I put my hands near her (she was never really a crabber, I've handled her since she came out of the pouch). She is underweight as well. I know linking to youtube is against the rules, but I have no other way to show what she is doing. If you search "sick wfb sugar glider" on youtube, you will see my video (usernameanonymous is my user name). It shows her twitching and acting very oddly. She seemed to be losing control of her muscles before I brought her to the vet, but it hasn't gotten much better. She would fall flat on her face and her legs would stick out to the sides and shake for a while before she regained control enough to pick herself back up. She tried to eat a mealworm but couldn't even use her hands and mouth well enough to eat it, though she tried very hard. Please, if you have ANY insight, let me know ASAP.

Re: Sick Glider Shaking and Twitching, second opinion [Re: ] #864232
11/09/09 07:19 PM
11/09/09 07:19 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 21,060
Kansas
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LSardou Offline
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Kansas
Did they check her for dehydration?

I would see if you can get her back in to be rechecked. There are a few possibilities as to what's going on with her.

Re: Sick Glider Shaking and Twitching, second opinion [Re: ] #864235
11/09/09 07:23 PM
11/09/09 07:23 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,742
in my happy place
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sugarlope Offline
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She looks like she may be seizing, she may have vertigo as well. I would put her in a hospital cage immediately (i.e. small and one she can't climb in) so she can't fall and where you can set up an incubator type of situation to help her stay warm. Check her hydration (gently pinch up the skin on her shoulder blades and see if it stays up).


~Gretchen

If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.
Re: Sick Glider Shaking and Twitching, second opinion [Re: LSardou] #864236
11/09/09 07:25 PM
11/09/09 07:25 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
USA
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis
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Seizures? Take them back to the vet or another vet ASAP. This is not good!


Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.
Re: Sick Glider Shaking and Twitching, second opinion [Re: sugarlope] #864237
11/09/09 07:25 PM
11/09/09 07:25 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,742
in my happy place
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I'm not sure where you are in IL, there are some very knowledgeable vets that may be nearby - let us know and we can help you find someone for a second opinion if you decide to do so. hug2


~Gretchen

If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.
Re: Sick Glider Shaking and Twitching, second opinion [Re: sugarlope] #864249
11/09/09 07:43 PM
11/09/09 07:43 PM

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Anonymous
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I live in the northwest suburbs of Chicago. At the vets office they gave her 3 or 4 CC's of fluid sub-q. Are you sure these are seizures? She has been like this for a couple days now according to my dad. Would she have constant seizures like that? And she is not the only one. Now my other glider, gizmo, is doing it too (although not as badly as Sugar)

Re: Sick Glider Shaking and Twitching, second opinion [Re: Anonymous] #864250
11/09/09 07:45 PM
11/09/09 07:45 PM

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bksmu1
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I live in the northwest suburbs of Chicago. At the vets office they gave her 3 or 4 CC's of fluid sub-q. Are you sure these are seizures? She has been like this for a couple days now according to my dad. Would she have constant seizures like that? And she is not the only one. Now my other glider, gizmo, is doing it too (although not as badly as Sugar)--------(just reposting while logged in)

Re: Sick Glider Shaking and Twitching, second opinion [Re: ] #864264
11/09/09 08:18 PM
11/09/09 08:18 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,788
Cleveland, Ohio
sugarglidersuz Offline
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sugarglidersuz  Offline
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Posts: 14,788
Cleveland, Ohio
If both gliders are having seizures then in all likelihood they were exposed to some type of toxin and are having a major reaction to it. You need to get them back into the vet immediately for treatment. Go over any and all possibilities with those who were watching your gliders while you were gone to try to figure out what was different over the weekend. Eliminating the source of toxic exposure is key to their recovery. Check for Carbon Monoxide exposure as well.


Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders
Re: Sick Glider Shaking and Twitching, second opinion [Re: sugarglidersuz] #864273
11/09/09 08:37 PM
11/09/09 08:37 PM

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bksmu1
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I'll get a carbon monoxide detector tonight. Nothing different over the weekend. Some more info that might help--I feed them the BML diet, although I feed them pelleted food instead of live insects. My bag of food ran out last month and i couldn't find the same brand of food. They don't like the new food I ordered. So I bought another brand. They won't touch that either. I've been feeding them eggwhites and just today, mealworms to make sure they got enough protein. Could this have anything to do with it? Also, I've heard about zinc poisoning a thousand times, but I can't seem to find the symptoms listed anywhere. Does anybody know?

Re: Sick Glider Shaking and Twitching, second opinion [Re: ] #864276
11/09/09 08:39 PM
11/09/09 08:39 PM

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bksmu1
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bksmu1
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And I don't think taking them back to the vet will help. I might try to find a new vet, but the one I went to is far away as it is :/. I'm not sure how soon I'll be able to find one close enough.

Re: Sick Glider Shaking and Twitching, second opinion [Re: ] #864279
11/09/09 08:41 PM
11/09/09 08:41 PM

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bksmu1
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The vet said they might have to eventually take blood for tests, but she's using that as a last resort because supposedly the risk from taking the blood and the stress could easily lead to death (because they are already sick). I feel like I am running out of time though. :/

Re: Sick Glider Shaking and Twitching, second opinion [Re: ] #864298
11/09/09 09:13 PM
11/09/09 09:13 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,788
Cleveland, Ohio
sugarglidersuz Offline
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Posts: 14,788
Cleveland, Ohio
I doubt the food or diet is the issue from what you have described. If you had been feeding mealies all along, I would suspect aflatoxin poisoning, but since you haven't that rules that out.
You stated that you're in NW Chicago. There are 3 vets listed in Chicago in GC's vet Database HERE. I don't know if any of these are close to you, but it's worth taking a look. If not, look at the full Database for Illinois. I hope you figure it out soon worried


Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


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Re: Sick Glider Shaking and Twitching, second opinion [Re: sugarglidersuz] #864311
11/09/09 09:27 PM
11/09/09 09:27 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 571
Kenosha,WI
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Kenosha,WI
hope she is ok! it happened to my daughters hamster cause it was dehdrated


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Re: Sick Glider Shaking and Twitching, second opinion [Re: jen102375] #864353
11/09/09 10:01 PM
11/09/09 10:01 PM

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I watched them drink quite a bit of water. And like I said they were given fluids at the vet. I wondered if possibly the water bottle had been contaminated (it's very hard to clean the inside, you can never be sure if it is really clean). So I threw it out and got a new one. My other glider Gizmo was shaking some before, but now she is getting worse. She is shaking more rapidly than Sugar, although Gizmo seems to be walking and climbing ok. PLEASE if anybody has ANY ideas throw them at me. I also moved them into their old cage. It is smaller and I don't think that has anything to do with it, but I'm getting desperate.

Re: Sick Glider Shaking and Twitching, second opinion [Re: ] #864369
11/09/09 10:30 PM
11/09/09 10:30 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 9,910
Phoenix, AZ
KattyM Offline
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Phoenix, AZ
Do you know that they ate anything or much of anything over the weekend while you were gone? Have you seen them go to the bathroom? Can you offer some of their BML as a licky treat, or through a needleless syringe? They don't need their hands if you feed them this way.

Line the bottom of your smaller cage with fleece so if either of them falls, there is cushioning.

Definitely take them back to the vet. If you are not comfortable with the one who saw them earlier, find another. I don't know what caused it, but this behavior is not normal, and especially if it has not improved, they need to be seen again. worried


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Re: Sick Glider Shaking and Twitching, second opinion [Re: KattyM] #864371
11/09/09 10:37 PM
11/09/09 10:37 PM

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Ninja_Jack
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Ninja_Jack
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I know this is a long shot and I dont know if its possible in Gliders, but my chameleon did this when it has MBD (metabolic bone disease), Lack of calcium.

I just watched the video. Looks neurological to me. Someone mentioned the other day that theirs fell off the wheel and was acting funky. Do you think there could have been an accident.. Moreso, did the people watching them let them out and maybe, drop them or step on them without knowing?

Last edited by Ninja_Jack; 11/09/09 10:39 PM.
Re: Sick Glider Shaking and Twitching, second opinion [Re: ] #864373
11/09/09 10:44 PM
11/09/09 10:44 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 439
Centerville, TN
K
Kara Offline
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 439
Centerville, TN
http://docs.google.com/gview?a=v&q=cache:IwMWrlkpR10J:www.eastsideah.com/img/pet_health/pdf/exotics/sugar-gliders-diseases.pdf+sugar+glider+trembling&hl=en&gl=us&sig=AFQjCNGzs4trzlsHdygSTG5hfn_cvBc5iw

read up on this, it might help. it talks about trembling and pacing, also a few other things

Re: Sick Glider Shaking and Twitching, second opinion [Re: Kara] #864374
11/09/09 10:47 PM
11/09/09 10:47 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 439
Centerville, TN
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Kara Offline
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Kara  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 439
Centerville, TN
also, could be they are seizing, from what, i have no clue, but i would take them to the emergency vet ASAP!
if it's getting worse they may not have much longer. their little bodies can only take so much!!

Re: Sick Glider Shaking and Twitching, second opinion [Re: ] #864380
11/09/09 11:03 PM
11/09/09 11:03 PM

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bksmu1
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bksmu1
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B



Did your chameleon shake like this?

Re: Sick Glider Shaking and Twitching, second opinion [Re: ] #864388
11/09/09 11:16 PM
11/09/09 11:16 PM

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Ninja_Jack
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Ninja_Jack
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N



My chameleon wouldnt use her back legs but yes, she looked like she was having a seizure but thats from months of calcium deficiency before she came to me that I couldnt reverse. I dont know if thats capable to that extend in gliders. every animal processes calcium differently.

Like I said though, Im thinking something happened..either a hard fall or knocked around somehow..Ask your brother and mom if they at any time handled them..maybe they got scared (maybe one nipped or jumped) and they accidentally dropped it or flung it as a natural reaction? Im not placing blame by any means but there is something majorly wrong.

Re: Sick Glider Shaking and Twitching, second opinion [Re: ] #864410
11/09/09 11:48 PM
11/09/09 11:48 PM

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bksmu1
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bksmu1
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B



I think it must be calcium deficiency. If something had happened, my little brother would tell me. Falling in the cage is a possibility, but the chances that 2 of my gliders fell in the same way on the same day is too big of a stretch. Sugar is losing use of her back legs now. I've given them some yogurt with Rep-Cal calcium supplement until I can go to the vet tomorrow to pick up the calcium injections. Gizmo ate the yogurt like it was her last meal, but Sugar ate it drop by drop. I hope it helps. Thanks a lot ninjajack for the info. And thanks to you too kara, that site you pasted is the first time I've seen trembling as a symptom of calcium deficiency and that's the first thing that has stood out.

Re: Sick Glider Shaking and Twitching, second opinion [Re: ] #864455
11/10/09 01:01 AM
11/10/09 01:01 AM

B
bksmu1
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bksmu1
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B



Thanks a lot for all your help everybody.

Re: Sick Glider Shaking and Twitching, second opinion [Re: ] #864459
11/10/09 01:08 AM
11/10/09 01:08 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
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Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
If a glider has a bacterial or parasite infection, they could rapidly loose calcium and develope metabolic bone disease (also known as hind leg paralysis) in a very short period of time (days). Unless the cause is treated, the symptoms won't clear up. It sounds like this is what is going on with them.

Fecal and urine tests need to be done to check for bacteria or parasites. Oral calcium suppliment as well as appropriate antibiotics are most likely the treatment needed.


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But I'd of had to miss the dance


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Re: Sick Glider Shaking and Twitching, second opinion [Re: Dancing] #864514
11/10/09 07:32 AM
11/10/09 07:32 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,788
Cleveland, Ohio
sugarglidersuz Offline
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Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,788
Cleveland, Ohio
I agree 100% with what Teresa has stated.
Also, this is the first I have heard that trembling can be a symptom of HLP. I am going to do further research on that.
Okay, I just read that article and the inference that trembling may be a symptom of calcium deficiency is there, but it is not listed specifically. Further research is needed. Please let us know if your gliders do, in fact, test positive for calcium deficiency. Blood tests and x-rays are needed for conclusive evidence of hypocalcemia. More information about testing can be found by going to my article about Hind Leg Paralysis.


Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders
Re: Sick Glider Shaking and Twitching, second opinion [Re: sugarglidersuz] #864525
11/10/09 08:57 AM
11/10/09 08:57 AM

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Ninja_Jack
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Ninja_Jack
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Im just glad that I might have been able to shed some light on the issue. I really hope you can get it under wraps and save your babies. PLEASE keep us updated!

Re: Sick Glider Shaking and Twitching, second opinion [Re: ] #864531
11/10/09 09:36 AM
11/10/09 09:36 AM
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 5,336
Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
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Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis
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Posts: 5,336
Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
I also agree with theresa, bacterial infections, come on suddenly, and hit hard..

also something to keep in mind is a possible toxin of some sort.

siezures that come on out of the blue like that is generally toxins, or bacterial/parasites

Re: Sick Glider Shaking and Twitching, second opinion [Re: Bourbon] #864811
11/10/09 08:10 PM
11/10/09 08:10 PM

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bksmu1
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bksmu1
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Yes, bacteria or parasites causing the HLP makes perfect sense. I've read up on it and everything points straight to that. THANK YOU TERESA. I took them to another vet (who also admittedly didn't know all that much about sugar gliders and hadn't seen one in about 10 years) and he didn't know quite what was going on. I told him about the bacterial infection/parasite condition, and gave me another antibiotic and said he would take blood later if they don't get better. For now, they're on amoxicillin, ciprofloxacin, and a calcium supplement. They aren't showing improvement since yesterday, but they haven't gotten worse.

Re: Sick Glider Shaking and Twitching, second opinion [Re: ] #864822
11/10/09 08:46 PM
11/10/09 08:46 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,658
Wisconsin
Feather Online sleep
Administrator
Feather  Online Sleep
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Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,658
Wisconsin
Where are you located in IL. Dr. Ness treats sugar gliders and has raised them in the past. What vet did you take them to?


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Re: Sick Glider Shaking and Twitching, second opinion [Re: Feather] #864862
11/10/09 10:31 PM
11/10/09 10:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,843
Lisle, Illinois
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Posts: 3,843
Lisle, Illinois
I am in IL probably close to you in Lisle, let me know if you need help with anything. I go to Dr. Ness, he is an amazing vet.

What are your cages made out of? Had they recently moved into the new cage? Any new plastic toys or anything?

I agree with everyones thoughts on possible causes, keep your cage super clean and remove anything new that may have triggered the episodes (toys, new cage, and so on)



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Simba, Nala, Rain, Snow & Sugaree

Shadowdancer, Sugar Magnolia, Sunshine Daydream, Winter, Twinkle, Twilight, Everlette, Sparkle, Polar Bear, Indigo & Willow








Re: Sick Glider Shaking and Twitching, second opinion [Re: SugareeErin] #864958
11/11/09 01:25 AM
11/11/09 01:25 AM

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bksmu1
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bksmu1
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Yes, they did move into a new cage but that was about a month ago. When they got sick I moved them back into their old cage just in case. They had a lot of nasal discharge too (snot) so I gave them a nebulizer treatment with saline to clear them out a little. The old cage isn't making it better though. Where is Dr. Ness? I'd drive 2 hours if it meant going to a vet that truly knew about sugar gliders. It seems that the vets around me treat sugar gliders but don't know very much about the common diseases and conditions (such as HLP). None of them REALLY knew how to handle them. My 8 year old brother handles ours better than they could. One of the vets admitted he hadn't even seen a glider in over 10 years, but he listened to everything I told him and he prescribed meds accordingly. I'm just afraid that what I tell him could possibly be wrong. I'd like to see a vet that has actually seen this condition before. A vet that knows exactly what's wrong and exactly what to do. If Dr. Ness has raised gliders of his own, I would trust him. And I would drive 2 hours to get to a vet a trusted completely.

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