I have heard this OVER and OVER again. You have to have 3 or more breeding females to be USDA Licensed... you MUST get USDA licensed if you have 3 or more etc...


Well, I have to say that I have been turned down again and again by the USDA. I am included in the Eastern Region and I have tried to apply a number of times over the years.

I am a Florida Fish and Wildlife licensed breeder and I specifically decided to get 4 females (I have a trio now) so that I could *FINALLY* get my USDA license.

Drum roll please....... They still consider me to be a "hobby breeder"

I've called and bugged them... told them that I have 4... that's right, FOUR breeding females now and they have told me that it is not worth their time and effort to get me licensed and that I should just stick to my state regulations.... They said that I was welcome to apply... but that it would be pointless because they wouldn't accept me with so few breeding females and especially since Florida regulates the breeding and sale of gliders.


Anyone else run into this??? Anywho, I just wanted to share my little story... it is frustrating to know that it is supposedly unlawful for me to have my 4 females and NOT be USDA licensed ... but then again, it would be a pain to go through it anyway and my standards and practices as a breeder are already higher than anything they require...

Odd, I think Peggy only has 4 Breeding Females and she is USDA licensed. I'm sure she had to reapply when she moved to FL....maybe she can shed some light on this.

Tish... That would be great to have some "inside" advice. Perhaps Peggy was able to stay licensed with 4 because she already was licensed... do you know where she moved from? If she does have only 4, I may just call up USDA again and use her as an example

Texas

You should shoot her an e-mail

good idea

Can anyone PM me her e-mail??

I'm sure it's on her website: www.critterlove.com

Thanks

You know, I noticed that on her site, she has only 4 BREEDING females, but has more than 4 females it looks like she has 11 total. I'm pretty sure the USDA counts all intact females (dogs, cats, etc.). Perhaps this is why?

Sent her an e-mail too

Hey Gang...wish I could be of more help to you but nope...cant here...

When I lived in Portland Texas I applied for my USDA and was told it was not necessary in our area to be USDA licensed unless I was an exhibitor or I owned a large exotic bird aviary.

When I opened my Pet Store, I went in again to apply not only for my store but also my gliders and was told the same thing... therefore, never being able to obtain a license.

When we moved to Florida, I KNEW I would HAVE to get a license because I KNEW the laws were different. I called probably about 2-3 weeks after moving down here to ask for my package to get the wheels rolling and Oakley, I was told the same thing as you...I was just considered a *Hobby breeder* and although I have more than 4 females, they are not all breeding and most live with neutered males. Just as rescue homes are not required to have a license. As long as I follow all State Regulations it is not needed.

So, Im not going to go crazy over it. I dont plan to have any more than what I have right now.

In my eyes, it is nothing more than a piece of paper anyway. Really, even (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets is *USDA* and they always pass with flying colors. I personally think MY standards for how I maintain my gliders and their cages are much higher standards than any outside source could put on me...

Oakley, if it is something you want THAT badly, contact Paula, she is USDA licensed, but Im not sure how many breeding gliders she has.

I've been in Paula's glider room and I'm pretty sure she has more than 4 breeding females. But I still think it's a good idea to contact her for help....maybe she can provide more insight.


Sorry, Peggy I assumed you had one because I know you owned a pet store before you moved here.

When I went in to my local USDA office to ask them about it, I had to first explain to them what gliders are. (in return I got "Oh,you're that lady with the monkeys we've heard about") Then I had to show them THE BOOK that said I needed to be licensed. Then I had to explain to them that would mean having one of their inspectors come out to my home to inspect my facilities and such.

They didn't have a CLUE what I was even talking about. They would not help me. They are more concerned with cattle, dairy, pigs, goats....livestock. Oh, and land usage (I get $200 a year for NOT growing wheat or corn).

One more neuter and I'll be down to 3 breeding females anyway so I gave up.

Teresa and Peggy, thanks for making me feel like I'm not alone.

I really don't care about the license... as said before, my standards are higher than they would ever ask for.

I pretty much gave up after they told me no when I called about it in December (when I officially had 4 females).

I am having the same difficulty here in NY.....I finally got them to send me a package but the lady on the phone said it will most likely be a waste of my time as they consider me a hobby breeder as well.....

Odd lol. i must have a really strict inspector etc. Even if i had two breeding females and five females in with neutered males, here they count those females and were extremely adamant that 3 or more and i needed to be licensed asap. Was told this by two different women on the phone with the regional office;) they now are considering as i was told ( if you are breeding any) the females in with netered males since they can not be fixed (technically) as breeding females. To be honest the whole darn thing needs to be adjusted!!! you cant go telling one person they need to be upheld by the same law that another person isn't. a law is a law and i wish they'd figure out what it was. i can see why you are so frustrated. Everyone should be equal in the laws. what if they told soemone no, the someone higher up in the USDA got a complaint against for ex. this person they told no, and seized gliders because the person wasnt USDA licensed because they were told not to be. Thats sad. Things should be black and white and all laws should be the same for everyone if they are federal alws. state laws are the exemption obviously I.e. California is illegal to own and not others

First of all, the USDA won't seize gliders because of law violations. They might fine the owner (and large amounts I understand) but they don't seize gliders.

I do agree that the laws should be applied evenly and fairly to everyone. They also need to UNDERSTAND the laws as they have them written.

Their OWN LAWS state "more than 3 breeding females"

Not 3 or more

and not breedable

but "more than 3 breeding females"

Teresa,

I agree Unfortunately though, whoever heads up the south-eastern division doesn't care about sticking to the letter of the law...


And now there is someone who would love to buy my joeys, but can't because she lives in Georgia We are trying to find a way to stay within the law, but it is sad that the USDA regulates it, and then dismissively turns down people.

yeah bad example but in any case a hefty fine when they told someone it wasn't required when it was, is not ok. I agree they should know the laws they have written and put in place. i'm so sorry megan.

It is the USDA so it should be the same for all of the US, you'd think! I have an office right here walking distance who didn't even know they (the USDA) "had any say over sugar gliders, What are they anyway?" Duh? How can they regulate what they don't know?????!!!!!!! That's our wonderful government at work and we are paying for them to do such a wonderful job!!!!

If the USDA tells you it's a "waste of time" then be sure to get that in writting. That way you have a record of what transpired and what was said. Just my 2 cents

good advice! yes i'd definately get it in writing meghan.;)

Ha! I'd love to get ANYTHING in writing from the USDA...

As a general rule of thumb, state law can be equivalent to or more stringent than the corresponding federal law, but never less stringent. This is why glider ownership is not permitted in some states, such as California, and is permitted in others.

I was thinking that you should get it in writing too. Because if they DO try to fine you for not having a license, you can show them that you've TRIED to get a license but they told you it's a waste of time.

I'll call and ask for something in writing... but they're never very cooperative

I discussed this topic with my wife and according to her this is not a new subject with her. She has delt with many breeders of different species and they have all had similar issues with the USDA people. As long as you are taking proper care of your pets you should not be worried about your local Govt. coming after you. The USDA is so under-staffed that they do not have the time or money to check on every small breeder. They are mostly concerned with livestock and other animals that are for human consumption. If your local Govt. has to come to your house then maybe you are not taking proper care of your pets. They are aware of the issues that small breeders are having with the USDA.

Just have as much as possible documented with the dates, time, and who you talked to. If you are raising your pets properly and have all the documentation possible then you should not have to worry.

Thanks

Their own laws also state ""The following activities require a Class A license:
C selling of domestic dogs or cats to a
< pet shop
< broker
< dealer
< exhibitor
< research facility
NOTE: Persons with 3 or less breeding females are
exempt.
C selling of 25 or more dogs or cats or any combination
thereof to a research facility
C selling of more than $500 per calendar year of nondangerous
pet type animals to a:
< pet shop
< broker
< dealer
< exhibitor
< research facility
C selling of any wild/exotic animals, excluding hoofstock,for:< pets
< exhibition
< research"



"selling of any wild/exotic animals, excluding hoofstock,for:< pets"

Just an update i emailed my inspector. IF you breed and also have females in with neutered males, those females though in with neutered males do count as breeding females because they can not be spayed. it may be ridiculous to us as it is.....but its considered a violation if you have 3 breeding females for example and two more in with neuetered males...that would bring your breeding females up to 5. she even cited a blue book code. I have it all in email. the laws are changing and i guess from what i gather they dont want breeders to try and get around that law by doing that. Do a google search on these exact terms "usda licensed hedgehogs" the first choice that comes up on the page on google click it. at the very bottom read the box in peach with an asterick. Its unfair ina sense since females in with neutered males won't breed if they stay in with their neutered mate, but it is what the new laws are trying to enforce. ( i didnt know if i could post the link on here or not so i gave directions to an example LOL )

The people at the main office in my area told me that any kind of females that are whole in the house that total more than 3 count. That means if you have a whole female dog plus 3 female suggies you need a license. I asked several times and confirmed with them. I am going to call Monday to start the process of getting my license. I have my packet but they said just call when I am ready to fill out the info. We will see if I get a different story Monday.