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Glider Community Data Collection Effort #992186
08/16/10 11:29 AM
08/16/10 11:29 AM

B
Briarthorn
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Briarthorn
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This thread spawned put of the diet Talk Thread. This idea I believe warrents a thread itsel. I think it's be eaiser for us to track ideas. I don't know where it should go, so I am putting it here.


A few answers to questions/concerns that have been raised. Questions/suggestions we sent Anonomyously:

We should make it a good study, but also doable for those of us who can't do weights on a daily basis. I think maybe weekly weights should be plenty... or possibly monthly... or even with each blood draw. Fecals should possibly also be included in the study... checking for parasites and how much bee pollen digested (for those on that diet) I read that bee pollen is all digested, but I have personally seen bee pollen on a fecal. (hard to differentiate from roundworm):

I don;t think we want to bog our selves down with to much data. I plan to have a case folder for each glider outlining it's basics: cage size, begining weight, personality, etc. As for testing and weights, I feel 2-4 times a year will be the max. I am leaning to twice a year. For our purposes we want to see how the gliders thrive over time on a diet, not how he changes weight each day (that could be from drinking water!)

Exercise would be VERY hard to track (I think). That would be a hard variable to quantify, especially if the gliders don't get out of their cage that much. And how do I even know if the one who sits when I am home isn't running like mad while I am at work.

We will try our best on this one. You know your suggies. If they are active or not. WE'll think of a way (maybe a 1-5 scale) to quantify what you know about their habits.

Also, to standardize the amount of time between cage cleanings will cause issues.

I think just recording when a cleaning is done and what it was cleaned with will be recorded. Lets keep it simple, at least to start with. Observe adn record teh gliders as they are now, no special changes.

Cage size would be a variable that would be easy to quantify, but the amount of food could be difficult. Because gliders suck and spit, they end up making a mess and throwing pieces around. This wouldn't matter, but they could also end up tipping the dish with food that they don't end up eating.

Good point. I thnk what the gliders are eating is important, not quantity. At least for now. We'll record treats, and feedings but not quantity.

I also don't think that raw data should be shared with anyone with a motive. For example, I wouldn't want the whole public to know if I don't take a glider out for a week

I will assign each case a number that only I and one or two other designated people will know. All data, findings and released iformation will be revealed using this number so as to not give out any personal information.


Keep the idea rolling this is great!

Re: Glider Community Data Collection Effort [Re: ] #992252
08/16/10 01:04 PM
08/16/10 01:04 PM

J
JamieInWA
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JamieInWA
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J



Great ideas so far! thumb

Re: Glider Community Data Collection Effort [Re: ] #992477
08/16/10 08:35 PM
08/16/10 08:35 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,138
Lutz Florida
CandyOtte Offline
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CandyOtte  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,138
Lutz Florida
Here are a few more variables you will need to consider:

Much of your data will need to be collected for colonies of variable size sharing a cage. There will be no way to determine the intake of individual gliders sharing a cage and dinner plate.

How will you record data for groups of gliders?

Will you look at differences between gliders that are fed combinations of fruits and vegetables (smoothies/relishes) and those fed single fruits and vegetables with each feeding.

Will you have owners report the exact fruits and vegetables offered each night with the diet they choose?

There can be a big difference nutritionally depending on the choices paired with each diet. Gliders fed HPW with attention to feeding high calcium fruits and veggies are getting very different nutrients from gliders fed HPW paired with frozen mixed vegetables (high phosphorus)

A nutritional/diet study must include all foods fed, not just the primary staple food offered. In a controlled study the fruits and vegetables would be the same for all gliders on each of the diets.


Candy Otte
& the Glider Kids
Sassy, Corky, Mehitabel & Missy
Wacco, Yacco, & Dot
Mindy, Kanobles, Elmo, & Chipper

http://www.gliderkids-diet.com

CandyOtte@aol.com
Re: Glider Community Data Collection Effort [Re: CandyOtte] #992570
08/16/10 10:52 PM
08/16/10 10:52 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,753
Florida
LabNGliderMom Offline
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LabNGliderMom  Offline
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Florida
Excellent points, Candy - the differences all need to be recorded. Not to mention how often are we talking about the people willign to particiapte putting their info into a collaborative hat? There is a lot that still needs to be gone over and decided upon before anything begins.


Julie
Hubby: George
Kids: Ayla & Michael
Grandsons: Trysten, Dayton, KJ & Nathyn
The Zoo: Midnight, Severe & Nala - Claude, Pixie, Tippy & Chili - Scout & Soluna, Theo & Deegie

http://hammockhavenpetsplus.com


Re: Glider Community Data Collection Effort [Re: LabNGliderMom] #992603
08/17/10 12:49 AM
08/17/10 12:49 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414
Minneapolis, MN
wildlifeangel Offline
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wildlifeangel  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414
Minneapolis, MN
I know tracking the PP diet will be fairly easy. Anyone who freezes their diet can just let you know which fruits and veggies are in the diet mixes that we make each time.


Nadine

Adam-Eve
Starsky-Bianca
Gabriel-Charity
Barrington-Bailey
Travis-Rose-Ruby
Justice-Mercy
Natalia-Carmella-Cayden
Minka-Marco
Reagan-Jocelynn
Donnovin-Selina
Kaluah-Keeko-Emily-Monty-Lexy-Kevin-Raven-Skeeter
:rtmo: :leu: :bb: :cream: :plat:

www.tspsugar.com
Re: Glider Community Data Collection Effort [Re: wildlifeangel] #992620
08/17/10 02:06 AM
08/17/10 02:06 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,748
New Jersey
JillMarie Offline
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JillMarie  Offline
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Posts: 7,748
New Jersey
just a thought as well, how about including pictures in each file? reason: coat condition. this way they could be compared as well, and not just by the owner's description


:grey: Bosom Buddy Creations:grey:
^website link wink

Remember that God Loves You!
Re: Glider Community Data Collection Effort [Re: JillMarie] #992622
08/17/10 02:19 AM
08/17/10 02:19 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414
Minneapolis, MN
wildlifeangel Offline
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wildlifeangel  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414
Minneapolis, MN
I agree, maybe a couple of photos should be taken at the time of each vet visit.


Nadine

Adam-Eve
Starsky-Bianca
Gabriel-Charity
Barrington-Bailey
Travis-Rose-Ruby
Justice-Mercy
Natalia-Carmella-Cayden
Minka-Marco
Reagan-Jocelynn
Donnovin-Selina
Kaluah-Keeko-Emily-Monty-Lexy-Kevin-Raven-Skeeter
:rtmo: :leu: :bb: :cream: :plat:

www.tspsugar.com
Re: Glider Community Data Collection Effort [Re: wildlifeangel] #992820
08/17/10 12:01 PM
08/17/10 12:01 PM

B
Briarthorn
Unregistered
Briarthorn
Unregistered
B



Great suggestions. To answer a couple of questions regarding permissions etc, from the previous thread, I have been thinking making a separate website would be best. WE can use it to submit data to the person compiling it, post info about the study, track the funding, etc, etc, etc. Also making nnot part of any one community (glider central, SGGS etc) might encourage people from all over to participate. Unless we want this to be a GC effort, then we'd want to do everything here. But I like the first option better,

There are a great many ideas rolling in but there are a few things that must happen first. This is going to be a great deal of work on my part. I am more than happy to do it but only if we are serious about this. No one has approached me about organizing how this will work.

Here's what I need:

1. We need to come up with a committee of members who will help make decisions during this process. I volunteered to take the lead but this is not a one woman job. To me taking lead means helping organize and schedule things as well as using my experience to help keep it on track. VOLUNTEERS?

2. We need to set up our framework. I have begun setting up the files I will use to track stuff ads well as the data sheets I will use for daily input.
We still need to find someone to set up a website (if we are going to use it), set up a ventrilo server (for conferences and meetings), set up an account for expenses of thinks like a website, ventrilo server, and testing (if we decide we want to help with those things).
We also need to decide who will vet prospective participants.

3. The committee needs t decide what we are going to track and when, we also need to decide who can participate.

Re: Glider Community Data Collection Effort [Re: ] #992904
08/17/10 02:47 PM
08/17/10 02:47 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,138
Lutz Florida
CandyOtte Offline
Serious Glideritis
CandyOtte  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,138
Lutz Florida
If you are going to require blood work, you might do a survey of glider owners to see if you have participants who:

1. Are willing to have their glider's blood drawn, usually requires anesthesia.

2. have a vet willing to do the blood draws when it is not medically necessary.

3. have the financial means to cover the cost of blood tests and anesthesia. (this could be very expensive especially if multiple gliders from one owner are studied)

A previous attempt was made recently requesting owners submit blood work on their gliders and there were only a very few people willing to have this done for one or more of the above reasons.


Candy Otte
& the Glider Kids
Sassy, Corky, Mehitabel & Missy
Wacco, Yacco, & Dot
Mindy, Kanobles, Elmo, & Chipper

http://www.gliderkids-diet.com

CandyOtte@aol.com
Re: Glider Community Data Collection Effort [Re: CandyOtte] #993236
08/18/10 01:18 AM
08/18/10 01:18 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 542
st.louis, missouri
HappyToBeHere Offline
Glider Lover
HappyToBeHere  Offline
Glider Lover

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 542
st.louis, missouri
i have of course on the other thread said i will help in any way!

i dont know how to build a website though or finances... so no help there...

ive been pretty busy at work, and havent been able to do much research. A committee being set up would be great, then maybe i can find my place somewhere.


LIVE life to the FULLEST, that way you really have no regrets when its over..


Mom to Pickles :grey: Precious :grey: Gizmo :rtmo: Ducky :wfb: and Dizzy :leu:
Re: Glider Community Data Collection Effort [Re: HappyToBeHere] #993559
08/18/10 05:59 PM
08/18/10 05:59 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,228
USA
I
IowaMisty Offline
Glider Guardian
IowaMisty  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,228
USA
Another thing to add to your list to consider is diet ingredients. I may use a different brand & type of honey than someone else & you may see completely different results.

I'll be happy to help in any way that I can. I'll PM you. I haven't been on GC in a while, so I didn't see your other thread.

Misty

Re: Glider Community Data Collection Effort [Re: IowaMisty] #993604
08/18/10 09:40 PM
08/18/10 09:40 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,138
Lutz Florida
CandyOtte Offline
Serious Glideritis
CandyOtte  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,138
Lutz Florida
Misty,

If the data collection tries to break down each and every diet by ingredient brand, type of honey or other minor differences it will quickly become unmanageable.

Gathering data on the HPW diet - can be done.
Gathering data on the HPW diet separately for each and every honey brand/flavor/or state it is produced in - would be WAY too many variations to track in a data collection.

If the data cannot be generated in a controlled set-up where there is control over the preparation of the diets and the same fruits and vegetables served with all of the diets daily, then there is no point in trying to separate each diet into sub-groups based on ingredient brands.


Candy Otte
& the Glider Kids
Sassy, Corky, Mehitabel & Missy
Wacco, Yacco, & Dot
Mindy, Kanobles, Elmo, & Chipper

http://www.gliderkids-diet.com

CandyOtte@aol.com
Re: Glider Community Data Collection Effort [Re: CandyOtte] #993765
08/19/10 10:55 AM
08/19/10 10:55 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
H
hwh4ev Offline
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hwh4ev  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
is the gathering of data on different diets or just hpw?

regards,
nancy in fl/detroit


regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)
Re: Glider Community Data Collection Effort [Re: hwh4ev] #993770
08/19/10 11:02 AM
08/19/10 11:02 AM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,228
USA
I
IowaMisty Offline
Glider Guardian
IowaMisty  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,228
USA
Candy, you may be right. But I do think at the very least, it would be interesting to note (if honey is used in the diet) whether the honey is raw honey or not. The nutrients are VERY different.

Originally Posted By: hwh4ev
is the gathering of data on different diets or just hpw?

regards,
nancy in fl/detroit


Different diets, if I'm understanding right.

Misty

Re: Glider Community Data Collection Effort [Re: IowaMisty] #993794
08/19/10 11:26 AM
08/19/10 11:26 AM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,138
Lutz Florida
CandyOtte Offline
Serious Glideritis
CandyOtte  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 5,138
Lutz Florida
Yes the plan is to study a number of diets - I just used HPW as an example of the difficulties in sub-grouping ingredient brands or types of honey.


Candy Otte
& the Glider Kids
Sassy, Corky, Mehitabel & Missy
Wacco, Yacco, & Dot
Mindy, Kanobles, Elmo, & Chipper

http://www.gliderkids-diet.com

CandyOtte@aol.com
Re: Glider Community Data Collection Effort [Re: CandyOtte] #994882
08/21/10 12:35 PM
08/21/10 12:35 PM

B
Briarthorn
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Briarthorn
Unregistered
B



Okay I have gotten some serious balls rolling on this. Gonna take some time before I actually start collecting data. I am putting together a grant proposal for fed $$. This will take time. ALOT of time on my part to do the research adn write it up. Here's how you can help:

I need LOTS AND LOTS OF RESEARCH. Please send me anything you think is important to this. If you can access peer-review articles you can just print them and send them to me (PM me for address) or email them, to me at Briarthorn1@gmail.com.

Thanks so much for your interest!

Re: Glider Community Data Collection Effort [Re: ] #994959
08/21/10 03:10 PM
08/21/10 03:10 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 137
FL
J
jimbo Offline
Joey Member
jimbo  Offline
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J

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 137
FL
Great idea on the grant! We have feelers out and are waiting for responses on access to journals, etc.


Jimbo, Webmaster
SunCoast Sugar Gliders
http://www.sugar-gliders.com/
Re: Glider Community Data Collection Effort [Re: jimbo] #995031
08/21/10 08:11 PM
08/21/10 08:11 PM

B
Briarthorn
Unregistered
Briarthorn
Unregistered
B



Thanks Jimbo. Remember to try and stick to peer-review. If I don;t have a vast majority of the sources out of peer-review, the grant won't be taken seriously and we'll be wasting our time. The historiography is the most cumbersome part and will take me the longest to get going. Once I have that rolling we can get to the meat of the project.

Re: Glider Community Data Collection Effort [Re: ] #995175
08/22/10 07:22 AM
08/22/10 07:22 AM

B
Briarthorn
Unregistered
Briarthorn
Unregistered
B



Just had a thought...

I have seen numbers posted for the estrimated # of gliders in the US. Where did those numbers come from? I'd like to use them in the proposal but need the primary source. Also do we have numbers on the vets qualified to discuss diets? Could we get those numbers somehow? Maybe randomly cal 1000+ exotic vets nationally and give tele questionair. If we standardize the questions we could farm out the work locally. maybe compile all the vets in a database and randomly select our study grp from that? Showing that there is a low ratio of vets with diet knowhow vs glider owners would really be helpful.

What are Zoos using. Zoos are big money in comparison to what we are doing. They are also considered humanitarian be cause they are for the "people" of a community. If we could tie our project to applications they can use in zoos it might help with funding. Do we know what the zoos are using and how it adds up? Could we include their diet in our study? We should interview as many glider zoo keepers as possible. maybe another questionair?

Re: Glider Community Data Collection Effort [Re: ] #995198
08/22/10 08:54 AM
08/22/10 08:54 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
Tech Admn
GliderNursery  Offline
Tech Admn

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
Originally Posted By: Briarthorn
What are Zoos using.


The Cleveland Metroparks Zoo (Ohio) feeds the primate diet along with fresh fruits and veggies.

Last edited by GliderNursery; 08/22/10 08:55 AM. Reason: added state

Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: Glider Community Data Collection Effort [Re: GliderNursery] #995200
08/22/10 09:25 AM
08/22/10 09:25 AM

B
Briarthorn
Unregistered
Briarthorn
Unregistered
B



Good to know. Lets see if we can get any specifics about that. Maybe there is something written about it we can refer to.

Re: Glider Community Data Collection Effort [Re: ] #996698
08/25/10 10:26 PM
08/25/10 10:26 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 542
st.louis, missouri
HappyToBeHere Offline
Glider Lover
HappyToBeHere  Offline
Glider Lover

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 542
st.louis, missouri
well with school and now having the late shifts at the vet im may not be able to help as much as i was hoping frown

but i graduate in May so things will slow down then smile


LIVE life to the FULLEST, that way you really have no regrets when its over..


Mom to Pickles :grey: Precious :grey: Gizmo :rtmo: Ducky :wfb: and Dizzy :leu:
Re: Glider Community Data Collection Effort [Re: ] #997216
08/27/10 05:31 AM
08/27/10 05:31 AM

B
Briarthorn
Unregistered
Briarthorn
Unregistered
B



Happy, even if you can just take ten min, to do a Google journal search and print anything that pops up on the radar I'd reallt appreciate it. I can weed through whatevr you find so you won;t have to take the time to do it.

Re: Glider Community Data Collection Effort [Re: ] #998447
08/30/10 04:41 AM
08/30/10 04:41 AM

B
Briarthorn
Unregistered
Briarthorn
Unregistered
B



I am trying to plan a trip to the University at the end of September.

If you have any suggestions on Papers or books or whatever you think is important for glider diets please send me the information so I cna look it up. I am going to compile a list so I know what to get from the University.


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