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Re: Contracts [Re: eshaw] #1112866
05/12/11 09:14 PM
05/12/11 09:14 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,527
Lake Havasu City, AZ
Marsupial_Mayhem Offline
Glider Slave
Marsupial_Mayhem  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,527
Lake Havasu City, AZ
I have a contract as well too. It there to make sure you will be responsible for the glider. To hold you accountable for doing what is right for the animal.

My pet contracts say that males will be neutered and females not allowed into a breeding program. It will also say that you will continue to feed a vet approved diet, make sure they get yearly health visits and if you have to re-home them for whatever reason, I would like to help approve that next home they are going to.

Breeding contracts are the same, except of course, males and females can be bred, but only to gliders with linage I approve.

I have worked hard to keep good lines, and I don't want my name attached to a bad breeding that may wind up causing genetic health issues.

Proper education starts with the breeder, and if I don't sell my animals to a home with the best of intentions, then I am not doing the animals a favor.

If you have the best intentions in mind for them, you shouldn't mind signing the paper. More and more in the community require this. It's all about the good of the animal.

In my eyes I feel my contact is there to make sure that the new owner is responsible and will own up to their duties as an owner. I made the joey happen, it's up to me to make sure that whoever purchases the animals understands fully the responsiblity they are taking on.

Last edited by Marsupial_Mayhem; 05/12/11 09:19 PM.

Danielle G.
USDA Breeder

www.Mylittlesugarglider.com

Slave to Sugar Gliders since 1997



:leu: = Abercrombie

:wfb: = Verbena :rtmo: = Saukura :cream: = Merry Christmas :plat: = Willie Wonka :plat: = Magdalena

Re: Contracts [Re: Berg] #1112872
05/12/11 09:22 PM
05/12/11 09:22 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,527
Lake Havasu City, AZ
Marsupial_Mayhem Offline
Glider Slave
Marsupial_Mayhem  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,527
Lake Havasu City, AZ
Originally Posted By: Berg
All four of our gliders were obtained without a contract. Two were from a commercial breeder, and two were rehomes. The person who had these two was looking for a good home because she had acquired four cats over the years.

I don't have a problem periodically updating a breeder on the gliders I obtained from them, but it should not be a requirement. We periodically sent updates and photos of our rehomed gliders to their previous owner because we wanted her to know they were OK. Giving them up was very difficult for her - she had them for 7 years.

I consider the "if you can't take care of them return them to me" clause to be a "service" to the new owner. If circumstances change for someone and they can longer take care of the glider, they don't have to go through the trouble of finding a new owner - just contact the breeder. The problem arises if the owner wants to sell the glider to try and recoup costs. However, I think I've read where some breeders will even pay something to get a glider back.

Even local animal shelters have contracts and agreements. I agree with everyone else, though - if you don't like what the contract says then don't sign it and find someone else. Nobody is forcing you to sign it.
Most of the gliders I cannot take back again. I do not want any money they may ask in a new home. I just want to make sure that new home will be caring for my joey in the manner they deserve.


Danielle G.
USDA Breeder

www.Mylittlesugarglider.com

Slave to Sugar Gliders since 1997



:leu: = Abercrombie

:wfb: = Verbena :rtmo: = Saukura :cream: = Merry Christmas :plat: = Willie Wonka :plat: = Magdalena

Re: Contracts [Re: Marsupial_Mayhem] #1112899
05/12/11 10:06 PM
05/12/11 10:06 PM

L
lovely1inred
Unregistered
lovely1inred
Unregistered
L



Originally Posted By: Marsupial_Mayhem
Originally Posted By: Berg
All four of our gliders were obtained without a contract. Two were from a commercial breeder, and two were rehomes. The person who had these two was looking for a good home because she had acquired four cats over the years.

I don't have a problem periodically updating a breeder on the gliders I obtained from them, but it should not be a requirement. We periodically sent updates and photos of our rehomed gliders to their previous owner because we wanted her to know they were OK. Giving them up was very difficult for her - she had them for 7 years.

I consider the "if you can't take care of them return them to me" clause to be a "service" to the new owner. If circumstances change for someone and they can longer take care of the glider, they don't have to go through the trouble of finding a new owner - just contact the breeder. The problem arises if the owner wants to sell the glider to try and recoup costs. However, I think I've read where some breeders will even pay something to get a glider back.

Even local animal shelters have contracts and agreements. I agree with everyone else, though - if you don't like what the contract says then don't sign it and find someone else. Nobody is forcing you to sign it.
Most of the gliders I cannot take back again. I do not want any money they may ask in a new home. I just want to make sure that new home will be caring for my joey in the manner they deserve.


This is true of many breeders, they do not have to have the animal(s) back, they just want to know where they are going.

Re: Contracts [Re: eshaw] #1112958
05/12/11 11:14 PM
05/12/11 11:14 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,527
Lake Havasu City, AZ
Marsupial_Mayhem Offline
Glider Slave
Marsupial_Mayhem  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,527
Lake Havasu City, AZ
Something else I wanted to point out that prompted me to have contracts to begin with.

A few years back, I sold a retired trio to a young man that I trusted.

He wanted to breed, but didn't tell me. I was told he had an older pair and the male was neutered or getting netuered.

One day, I went to another forum to see where a woman had posted about him.

He had a huge cage of all females and one male he called his "breeding colony." My two girls were in there, separated from the neutered male.

He was getting a lot of the gliders from Craigs List and brought one in with girardia.

He never had any of them vetted properly, and they all wound up dying one by one.

Had I a contract with him, I could have made him return my gliders to me at least, and I could have gotten them to the vet. There still could have been hope for them.

We tried to set up a railroad to a very good rescue lady on this group, but he never showed to meet her.

For the love of Ann, Nancy and Nick, I will never sell a glider without a contract again. As far as I am aware, Nick died alone, since the girls were in the "breeding colony" with the intact male and other females.

Last edited by Marsupial_Mayhem; 05/12/11 11:16 PM.

Danielle G.
USDA Breeder

www.Mylittlesugarglider.com

Slave to Sugar Gliders since 1997



:leu: = Abercrombie

:wfb: = Verbena :rtmo: = Saukura :cream: = Merry Christmas :plat: = Willie Wonka :plat: = Magdalena

Re: Contracts [Re: eshaw] #1112975
05/12/11 11:41 PM
05/12/11 11:41 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,007
Greeley, CO
Usha77 Offline
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Usha77  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,007
Greeley, CO
I agree 100% with those who agree with contracts. You are not buying an inanimate object - most of the breeders that I know and love care a great deal about the joeys they sell and what happens to them. It is not a power trip, but is a way to try to ensure that they have only the best, no matter what happens. I, for one, could never be a breeder because I would keep all joeys...lol...there are very few people I would trust to do right with any babies I have. If you don't want to sign a contract to possibly receive the love of your life into your home and heart, then go with the breeders who don't care what happens to their babies. Just my 2 cents.


Brenda
970-616-2872
mlove
Gliders: Eugene, Sandy, Seri; Bobbi, Spice; Star, Squiddi; Pearl, Pip; Petrie; Jimny, Pinocchio; Anna & Elsa
Dogs: Nacho & Dory
RIP my glider angels: Nynaeve, Poppy, Lan, Toffee, Zoey, Tika & Tas

mlove

www.sugargroup.org






Re: Contracts [Re: eshaw] #1112976
05/12/11 11:44 PM
05/12/11 11:44 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,516
North Dakota
kjgoulet Offline
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kjgoulet  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 1,516
North Dakota
Danielle, that story just sounds horrible frown it's stories like this that make me more than happy to sign contracts if I were to buy from a breeder (unless it does seem a little overbearing.)

About the breeding thing and getting money back. All animal breeders are looking to at least break even with what they put out for the animals, care, and housing for those animals. Gotti pitbulls are extreme! My pitbulls' dad was over $1000! Old English Bulldogs are $1200 or more. If you get animals from champion lines they're more expensive. Well same with gliders, to get the gliders that people want.. breeders have to pay big bucks to get the pairs that will produce those gliders. So it's only natural that they'd like to at least break even if not have a little extra to put away should an emergency pop up.

Anyways, I didn't have to sign a contract for my gliders and the previous owner gets updates every other week or so just because I get so excited lol! I don't see myself having to sign a contract for the next ones either but I will also update their mommy as to how they are doing. Because I know "life" happens and things don't always work out perfectly, I know they miss their babies and have no problem letting them know how they are smile

As far as the whole being returned to the breeder, I think even just contacting the breeder and working with them to find a suitable home with a new owner (have them sign a contract too!) It's just a way of them knowing where the gliders are so they can rest easy laugh cities make us register our pets every year so they know where our animals are, this is just a signature and update if you'd like. Seems pretty reasonable to me anyways.

I know I wrote like a book lmao! Hope you had fun reading it tounge


Kristi

Mommy to..
Daughter Abby
:grey: :wfb: :rtmo:
And my many fuzzy children <3
www.tenderlovingsuggies.webs.com
Re: Contracts [Re: eshaw] #1112988
05/13/11 12:03 AM
05/13/11 12:03 AM
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 78
Kansas
N2Wild Offline
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N2Wild  Offline
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 78
Kansas
I know I'm still a noob on gliders, but as I am getting closer to wanting to adopt some gliders, I remain cautiously optimistic about contracts. I think that once I've found the right ones, then signing a contract which requires me to feed the right diet, get annual vet checks, and follow the no-breeding clause is just fine with me. I want to do those things to give the little ones the best life possible anyways laugh

I am a bit cautious about the "re-homing" clause, but I never see myself ever getting rid of family once I adopt. Once into my family, they are there for life LOL. However, if something were to come up, I know that with all the breeders I've been talking to, they all just want the best and I know they would be there to provide for them. I see the benefits of these contracts far exceeding the potential downfalls and I'm still excited about adopting in the near future laugh

Sorry for being long winded... Just finished my last finals for grad school and still in essay mode... ugh!


Brian

:plat: Albus
:wt: Loki
Re: Contracts [Re: eshaw] #1112994
05/13/11 12:43 AM
05/13/11 12:43 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,594
Youngstown, Ohio
TheGliderPlayroom Offline
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TheGliderPlayroom  Offline
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,594
Youngstown, Ohio
The way I see it- my joeys are only here on Earth, because of ME and my actions. If I'm responsible for bringing them into this world, then I better also take the responsibility for making sure they live happy, full lives!

I call my contract, "Bella's contract", because she's the reason I wrote it.

Bella was born here. She found her waiting home fairly early on, a home I was very happy with. About a year or so after she went home, the person sold off ALL her gliders. When I inquired about bringing Bella back home, I was informed that I would have to pay back Bella's FULL price, PLUS the full price of her mate, and BOTH her male joeys! Between the asking prices, shipping, and neutering fees for three males, it was way, way beyond what I could ever afford. So I was forced to sit back and watch as my baby was sold. Then, that person sold her AGAIN. Luckily, this time she was sold to a wonderful person, whom when she had to downsize, sent Bella and her mate home to me. In just under 3 years, my baby had had 5 homes. She still stresses easily, pulls her eyebrows, and can be quite skittish. I will NEVER, EVER allow this to happen to another one of my babies!

My contract requires that my babies come back to me free of charge, only because I can't keep thousands of dollars in a "just in case the buyer wants a refund, and wants it NOW" fund. Money will never again be the reason I had to abandon my babies. (I do offer a possible partial discount at my discretion- aka if I can afford it at the time, but no one has ever asked for one.)

I have not had one home I screened and accepted, that refused to sign my contract. I honestly treat it as a screening tool in itself, and I make sure to include it in all my ads. My questionnaire also does a great job, I've had countless people stop contacting me after I sent it to be filled out. I count those people as a victory.

I couldn't care less about making money "selling" joeys, I highly prefer to place my joeys as non-breeding anyway, and I give big discounts for neutered males. Lack of funds won't stop me from placing a glider in a home I love, and a million dollars won't buy my babies to a home I distrust.


Helen
The Glider Playroom
PSG/Sugar Glider Database
Vice-President of the NE.O.B.B.C.
Re: Contracts [Re: TheGliderPlayroom] #1112999
05/13/11 01:09 AM
05/13/11 01:09 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,007
Greeley, CO
Usha77 Offline
Glider Addict
Usha77  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,007
Greeley, CO
Originally Posted By: TheGliderPlayroom
Lack of funds won't stop me from placing a glider in a home I love, and a million dollars won't buy my babies to a home I distrust.


clap

And, I'm sorry, but knowing i am not a breeder (though I have many breeder friends and have gotten some amazing and incredibly loved joeys from them), this probably doesn't mean much - but I would run screaming from anyone who refused to sign a contract. What does that mean to me? It means they do not have the joey's best interest in mind. If they did, they would not hesitate to sign a contract that is looking out for that joey. Once again, just my 2 cents. wink

Last edited by Usha77; 05/13/11 01:14 AM.

Brenda
970-616-2872
mlove
Gliders: Eugene, Sandy, Seri; Bobbi, Spice; Star, Squiddi; Pearl, Pip; Petrie; Jimny, Pinocchio; Anna & Elsa
Dogs: Nacho & Dory
RIP my glider angels: Nynaeve, Poppy, Lan, Toffee, Zoey, Tika & Tas

mlove

www.sugargroup.org






Re: Contracts [Re: eshaw] #1113001
05/13/11 01:13 AM
05/13/11 01:13 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,527
Lake Havasu City, AZ
Marsupial_Mayhem Offline
Glider Slave
Marsupial_Mayhem  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,527
Lake Havasu City, AZ
Yes. Helen. I agree with you.

You wanted to do what was best for Bella, and in this case, since her new owner could no longer keep her, you moved heaven and earth to get her back.

Many do not realize how much we have to pay to keep the gliders happy and healthy. The more gliders we have, the more expensive it is. The more food the more vet bills.

And also as a USDA breeder, not only do I have to take all my breeding gliders to the vet once a year for health certificates (an entire day event), but the vet must come to my home for an inspection once a year. I live and breed gliders in Iowa, so there is a permit I must purchase each year of $175. Then my USDA fee each year is based on how much I have gotten in the last year for my glider sales.

I also must claim sales on my income tax, so there goes more money.

And the more gliders you have, the more food you have to buy, the more of a vet fund you need to keep on hand and so on.

I also bought my gliders from other breeders and they were very costly. I bought the best animals with great lineage and it was not cheap to do this.

When I breed, I make sure the COEs are as low as possible to help make sure that the buyer is getting animals that are free of genetic defects. I also spend a lot on the HPW powder. Honestly, 250 grams is laughable at my house. I need the big sack. 5 kilograms at a time. Once shipped, you are looking at well over $250 just for this.

Then we have to include the other ingredients, plus the grocery list. I estimate my grocery bill each week for my gliders alone is close to $25. In a year, you are looking at $1,300 just for fruits, veggies, honey and eggs.

When I sell my joeys, the money is not free and clear. Yes. I try to keep my prices as low as I can (just sold a ringtail mosaic joey as a pet for $300), but darn, I have expenses with these guys and if I skimped on them, they wouldn't be healthy. My husband does say they eat better than we do and he's right.

With all the work, time and effort I have in each animal, I just want to be assured that they will all be cared for in a manner they deserve. Not everyone can keep the gliders forever. Life changes and things happen. I understand. I just want to make sure the next home is stellar. Am I asking too much? I honestly don't think so. Not after my trio.

Last edited by Marsupial_Mayhem; 05/13/11 01:16 AM.

Danielle G.
USDA Breeder

www.Mylittlesugarglider.com

Slave to Sugar Gliders since 1997



:leu: = Abercrombie

:wfb: = Verbena :rtmo: = Saukura :cream: = Merry Christmas :plat: = Willie Wonka :plat: = Magdalena

Re: Contracts [Re: eshaw] #1113002
05/13/11 01:16 AM
05/13/11 01:16 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,007
Greeley, CO
Usha77 Offline
Glider Addict
Usha77  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 4,007
Greeley, CO
I agree. Honestly, I would starve myself before any of my gliders went without good food.


Brenda
970-616-2872
mlove
Gliders: Eugene, Sandy, Seri; Bobbi, Spice; Star, Squiddi; Pearl, Pip; Petrie; Jimny, Pinocchio; Anna & Elsa
Dogs: Nacho & Dory
RIP my glider angels: Nynaeve, Poppy, Lan, Toffee, Zoey, Tika & Tas

mlove

www.sugargroup.org






Re: Contracts [Re: eshaw] #1113006
05/13/11 01:52 AM
05/13/11 01:52 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,305
Florida, USA
oakley Offline
Glider Slave
oakley  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,305
Florida, USA
I require a contract and I am completely for them. I think they are important to set price, terms of payment, pet-only vs breeding, and what will happen in the event that the new owner can no longer keep (or does not want) their glider.

I'm also for payment plans in the form of contracts and also for any other agreement that is made to safely place a glider in a good home.


Meghan

~__/>
{{ }}


Suggies: Basil, Mausi, Bagheera/Baloo, & the Trio
Dogs : Pretzel/Snickers
Horse: Nugget
RIP: Gato, Pepito, Pepper, and Mowgli gangel


Oakley's Glider Site
Re: Contracts [Re: eshaw] #1113033
05/13/11 04:10 AM
05/13/11 04:10 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 593
Iowa
E
eshaw Offline OP
Glider Lover
eshaw  Offline OP
Glider Lover
E

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 593
Iowa
Wow, I wasn't expecting this kind of response! Well, now it's my turn. I'd like to thank all of you that replied. I see that the general consensus is that you all love your animals and want what's best for them since you're acting as their stewards. KUDO's to you. Now, I have gliders (two) that I rescued and one that I out right purchased. No contracts involved either time. The animals are doing great and I care for them better than myself. My opinion and it's just that, an opinion, is that I find a contract superfolous. You have very little recourse with it should the need arise. In the end you are taking this person purchasing your glider at their word. Once it's purchased they have nothing to stop them from dropping off the face of the earth with the animal. There is no way of telling that they will honor the contract once signed either. Does my not wanting to sign a contract make me a bad glider owner, NOPE. I just look at it this way. When I purchase a glider it's ownership transfers to me, plain and simple. Do you have any more to say in the matter, NOPE. It becomes a part of my family under my care. You'd have no more say in the matter than you would with one of my kids.
Now, I totally understand that you feel responsible to find the best possible home and that's great. Just because you've had a bad experience in the past shouldn't make you not trust everyone who buys from you or wishes to do so. I think that if a person requires verifiable references that's a good indicator of their character. On another note, I recently would have liked to purchase a male glider for my female leu but that won't work because of the contract issue. I feel that had I signed a contract with this person I'd be deceiving her since I don't believe in them. I respect the fact that she wants one so the search continues.

Re: Contracts [Re: eshaw] #1113043
05/13/11 04:54 AM
05/13/11 04:54 AM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 272
Minnesota
Obsolescenttears Offline
Glider Explorer
Obsolescenttears  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 272
Minnesota
Pet only or Breeding any joey or adult that leaves this house leaves it with a signed and dated contract in my grubby paws. I want to know where these animals end up at any time and to have legal rights to know. SO many animals end up homeless.

Its also a tangible copy with address and phone number as every 6-9m I try to get into contact w/ all owners of my babies to make sure they dont have any questions, things are going ok, and to make sure they still have my information.

As the breeder its my responsibility to be in contact with my owners because most people dont save that kind of info over the years.

Frankly there have been two times I had people contact me stating 'they dont do contracts' and so they had to go elsewhere as I dont play that game.

smile This is just my take on things.

Re: Contracts [Re: eshaw] #1113045
05/13/11 04:57 AM
05/13/11 04:57 AM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 272
Minnesota
Obsolescenttears Offline
Glider Explorer
Obsolescenttears  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 272
Minnesota
And in Minnesota alone, we just oh.... 2-4months ago have had a local breeder win a suit against someone reguarding gliders w/ use of a contract. So your arguement is invalid.... they can be used, have been used, and will be used again smile Neat huh?


Honestly, it sounds like your just a really poor home choice for this breeders baby, smile And thats ok, you will find there are many people out there who wont care about contracts, and some that feel the exact same you do. So my suggestion is perhaps search around tell you find what your looking for, because lying to someone to get their glider is NOT ok, and im glad you realize it smile

Good luck on your search.

Last edited by Obsolescenttears; 05/13/11 05:00 AM.
Re: Contracts [Re: eshaw] #1113053
05/13/11 05:42 AM
05/13/11 05:42 AM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,039
Bristol, Va
MissSarah Offline
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MissSarah  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,039
Bristol, Va
O.o Tiana, you've totally lost me. I read all the way through these responses and I don't see anywhere where anyone has said a contract won't hold up in court. Of course it will! Its an agreement you've signed and if you sign it, the only proper thing to do is honor it.

Also, its not fair to get haughty and call someone a poor home just because they disagree with contracts. People are allowed to have their owj opinions. Just because they don't agree with the general consensus around here doesn't automatically make them bad people and poor homes.



EDIT: Perhaps I need to go back to grade school and learn to read more thoroughly. >.< Eshaw, contracts do hold up in court. I've seen many threads in my time here where a breeder won a case with the use of a contract. And usually, its in the glider's best interest.

Last edited by MissSarah; 05/13/11 05:48 AM.

Proud Mom to Princess Pim The Insane. heart(and several other babies, skin and fur.)

Dogs have owners. Cats have staff. Gliders have indentured servants.

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Re: Contracts [Re: eshaw] #1113055
05/13/11 05:50 AM
05/13/11 05:50 AM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 272
Minnesota
Obsolescenttears Offline
Glider Explorer
Obsolescenttears  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 272
Minnesota
[quote=eshaw] My opinion and it's just that, an opinion, is that I find a contract superfolous. You have very little recourse with it should the need arise. In the end you are taking this person purchasing your glider at their word. Once it's purchased they have nothing to stop them from dropping off the face of the earth with the animal. There is no way of telling that they will honor the contract once signed either. (I cant figure out how to work the bleeding Quote button!!!)

--He said above, indicating it (contract) cannot be supported - my example was as to why contracts are so great

-- I said he would be a poor choice for this home due to the circumstances with this breeder. Note how I said there are many breeders that agree with him that he can adopt from.

smile I think your reading my post in the wrong light. I am just answering the question hun.

Last edited by Obsolescenttears; 05/13/11 05:53 AM.
Re: Contracts [Re: eshaw] #1113057
05/13/11 05:51 AM
05/13/11 05:51 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,420
Twin Cities, MN
cinnamonstix Offline
Glider Addict
cinnamonstix  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,420
Twin Cities, MN
She said what she said about the contract based upon this reply I am sure. They can and do hold up, some people just think they are above the law. Not the person being mentioned here, just people who break contracts.

Originally Posted By: eshaw
You have very little recourse with it should the need arise. In the end you are taking this person purchasing your glider at their word. Once it's purchased they have nothing to stop them from dropping off the face of the earth with the animal. There is no way of telling that they will honor the contract once signed either.


Also she did not say he is a poor home, just a "poor home choice for this breeders baby". I doubt he is a poor home, but with that being said, no suggie would be leaving here without said contract, no matter to whom, even a close friend.

Erney, best luck in finding what you are looking for. : )


~GWEN~
Crazy Hubby Dru
Tortoise: Vork
Cats: Scooby, Swiper, Zero, Dinah & Sykes
Suggies: Meeko, Willow & Nemo; Rei, Rafiki & Rajah; Opal, Lily & Link; Tael, Tatl & Navi; Kristoff Krabbs & Crabby Patty
:rbridge: Fern, Cjarsa, Syfka, Icarus, Ivy, Howie & Gracie

www.cinnamonstix-n-sugar.com
Re: Contracts [Re: eshaw] #1113059
05/13/11 05:54 AM
05/13/11 05:54 AM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,039
Bristol, Va
MissSarah Offline
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MissSarah  Offline
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Bristol, Va
*scratches head* How is calling someone a poor home choice for a glider not calling them a poor home? O.o

And I seen that and edited my post as you were typing that. *smacks forehead*

Last edited by MissSarah; 05/13/11 05:57 AM.

Proud Mom to Princess Pim The Insane. heart(and several other babies, skin and fur.)

Dogs have owners. Cats have staff. Gliders have indentured servants.

:rbridge: Dexter. You left blueberry stains on my wall and pawprints on my heart. I love you Decker-Boy. heart
Full Moon Gliders
(Under Construction)

Re: Contracts [Re: eshaw] #1113068
05/13/11 06:27 AM
05/13/11 06:27 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,420
Twin Cities, MN
cinnamonstix Offline
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cinnamonstix  Offline
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Twin Cities, MN
"poor home choice"

If said breeder would adopt out to this home it would be a poor choice for the breeder because they are strictly contract required for adoption. Said interested party is non contract adopter meaning the two simply clash in interest. breeder is a poor choice for buyer, buyer is a poor home choice for breeder. I understand it completely. Hopefully this helps make sense of it.

He will find what he is looking for in a breeder that shares his same similar interests. They are out there and would love to make him the new home of one of their gliders.


~GWEN~
Crazy Hubby Dru
Tortoise: Vork
Cats: Scooby, Swiper, Zero, Dinah & Sykes
Suggies: Meeko, Willow & Nemo; Rei, Rafiki & Rajah; Opal, Lily & Link; Tael, Tatl & Navi; Kristoff Krabbs & Crabby Patty
:rbridge: Fern, Cjarsa, Syfka, Icarus, Ivy, Howie & Gracie

www.cinnamonstix-n-sugar.com
Re: Contracts [Re: eshaw] #1113093
05/13/11 08:44 AM
05/13/11 08:44 AM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,532
Kentucky
nancy1202 Offline
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nancy1202  Offline
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Kentucky
Originally Posted By: eshaw
My opinion and it's just that, an opinion, is that I find a contract superfolous. It is certainly not superfluous in the eyes of the adopter, as has been pointed out in great detail. This is a commitment, and in this day and age, it is naive to take someone's word. Again, this is not a "product" that is being "purchased". You have very little recourse with it should the need arise. In the end you are taking this person purchasing your glider at their word. Does my not wanting to sign a contract make me a bad glider owner, NOPE. You are correct... not a bad glider owner, but not the committed home most breeders would feel comfortable with. I just look at it this way. When I purchase a glider it's ownership transfers to me, plain and simple. Do you have any more to say in the matter, NOPE. It becomes a part of my family under my care. You'd have no more say in the matter than you would with one of my kids. Not sure about the relevance here unless you "bought" your children! shock I do believe social services and the court system would beg to differ though. Heck, even if they were your birth children, just about anyone with concerns could step in to contact the authorities if they were mistreated or rehomed into a bad situation! Sorry for the OT here, but just had to respond to the analogy.
Just because you've had a bad experience in the past shouldn't make you not trust everyone who buys from you or wishes to do so. Uh, yeah, unfortunately a bad experience would most definitely cause distrust. Most of us learn from our mistakes. On another note, I recently would have liked to purchase a male glider for my female leu but that won't work because of the contract issue. Pet only or breeding? Assumung your leu girl is a breedable female with lineage, perhaps your opinions might change should you ever adopt out any of your joeys.


Just a little personal experience here! I am a very small breeder, and have had 6 joeys born here. I kept the first 5, and finally rehomed the 6th. Her new owner is a sweetheart, and I knew her when she was a child in my church. Heck, I sang in the church choir with her grandmother 20 years ago! She raised an eyebrow when I mentioned "contract" but relaxed and immediately agreed when I told her the terms... this little girl was not to be bred and I was to be contacted if she ever needed to be rehomed. mlove


~Nancy~
http://www.derbycitygliders.com

:grey: Jackson/Izzie, Lukas/Leilah, Mizuki/Elektra, Oliver/Ava, Ramon/Paloma, Charming/Snow
Rest of the menagerie: dogs, cats, corn snake, bearded dragon
Re: Contracts [Re: eshaw] #1113111
05/13/11 09:42 AM
05/13/11 09:42 AM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,039
Bristol, Va
MissSarah Offline
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MissSarah  Offline
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Bristol, Va
I dunno. The more I read and roll it over in my head, the more I understand the need for the contract. Pet Only adoptions need to be enforced as well as making sure proper home conditions are maintained. It does make you look a little shady if you're not willing to sign a simple contract stating you're willing to provide safe, proper housing, medical attention when needed, and to contact the breeder if rehoming is ever needed.

I'm still sticking with my guns on the breeder shouldn't control what diet you feed (though a proper diet that provides the nutrients the glider needs should be a must. The particular diet fed should be up to the owner though) and I don't believe the glider should have to be given back to the breeder free of charge if the animal must be rehomed.

And really, just like its one persons perogitive that a contract may be "unfair" or whatever, its the breeders perogitive if they feel one if needed. Like its been stated before, if you don't like it don't do business with that breeder. They're their joeys, so if you want one you have to play ball on their field.

That's my final answer and I'm locking it in!


Proud Mom to Princess Pim The Insane. heart(and several other babies, skin and fur.)

Dogs have owners. Cats have staff. Gliders have indentured servants.

:rbridge: Dexter. You left blueberry stains on my wall and pawprints on my heart. I love you Decker-Boy. heart
Full Moon Gliders
(Under Construction)

Re: Contracts [Re: eshaw] #1113131
05/13/11 10:13 AM
05/13/11 10:13 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,420
Twin Cities, MN
cinnamonstix Offline
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cinnamonstix  Offline
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Posts: 3,420
Twin Cities, MN
Just to throw it out there, I am the breeder he is talking about. Pretty easy to figure this out anyways as he did post in my ad.
This is my first joey ever and my contract has a section about Solo Gliders, Breeding and Neutering, First Right of Refusal, Depostits and Payments, Contract Breech, Health Guarantee.
I do not require and odd circumstances and my contract states that if the person desides to get rid of the glider I need to know, I need to approve of the new home and the new home will be required to sign the same contract. I will be adding to it that if a suitable home can not be found, the glider is to come back to me. ....I do however allow them to find a decent home first, which they can sell to, give away, whatever, I just need that magical contract so I know my babies are not in a ditch being treated like the weekly trash.
I will also be adding one more section regarding contact which only pertains to keeping me informed ASAP if your contact Info is to change, ect. If I am going to have the contract I am going to require you keep your information up to date post adoption as well.

All said, my contract is not ridiculous. I will never be adopting out my joeys without a contract. I love my spoiled little babies and if they have to stay here til I can find the best homes....they are more than welcomed to.


~GWEN~
Crazy Hubby Dru
Tortoise: Vork
Cats: Scooby, Swiper, Zero, Dinah & Sykes
Suggies: Meeko, Willow & Nemo; Rei, Rafiki & Rajah; Opal, Lily & Link; Tael, Tatl & Navi; Kristoff Krabbs & Crabby Patty
:rbridge: Fern, Cjarsa, Syfka, Icarus, Ivy, Howie & Gracie

www.cinnamonstix-n-sugar.com
Re: Contracts [Re: eshaw] #1113132
05/13/11 10:14 AM
05/13/11 10:14 AM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 272
Minnesota
Obsolescenttears Offline
Glider Explorer
Obsolescenttears  Offline
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Posts: 272
Minnesota
Mine is very basic go ahead and view it on my site, it only controls rehoming them and a clause for non-abuse. Im not one to put my nose in and tell you what you can and cant do with your glider! And I think majority of contracts are like mine, shoot mines a tweeked template!

Re: Contracts [Re: eshaw] #1113133
05/13/11 10:15 AM
05/13/11 10:15 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,420
Twin Cities, MN
cinnamonstix Offline
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Twin Cities, MN
Oh and I will be ammedning my pet only. I will not sell any females at pet only pricing unless it is someone I know or is highly trusted. males WILL be neutered before leaving for their new home in most cases as well. Just a bit more fool proof this way for me.


~GWEN~
Crazy Hubby Dru
Tortoise: Vork
Cats: Scooby, Swiper, Zero, Dinah & Sykes
Suggies: Meeko, Willow & Nemo; Rei, Rafiki & Rajah; Opal, Lily & Link; Tael, Tatl & Navi; Kristoff Krabbs & Crabby Patty
:rbridge: Fern, Cjarsa, Syfka, Icarus, Ivy, Howie & Gracie

www.cinnamonstix-n-sugar.com
Re: Contracts [Re: eshaw] #1113149
05/13/11 10:36 AM
05/13/11 10:36 AM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,039
Bristol, Va
MissSarah Offline
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MissSarah  Offline
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Posts: 3,039
Bristol, Va
That does not seem unreasonable in the least. I didn't know you were the breeder in question. Now I understand your previous post about him being a poor home choice. (I love it when the little light bulb in my head suddenly dings and I feel like a moron.) I should have known you weren't just randomly telling him he was a poor home. LOL


Proud Mom to Princess Pim The Insane. heart(and several other babies, skin and fur.)

Dogs have owners. Cats have staff. Gliders have indentured servants.

:rbridge: Dexter. You left blueberry stains on my wall and pawprints on my heart. I love you Decker-Boy. heart
Full Moon Gliders
(Under Construction)

Re: Contracts [Re: eshaw] #1113157
05/13/11 11:08 AM
05/13/11 11:08 AM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,420
Twin Cities, MN
cinnamonstix Offline
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cinnamonstix  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 3,420
Twin Cities, MN
And Tianna and I know eachother IRL so this being said she knew more of the story as well. : )


~GWEN~
Crazy Hubby Dru
Tortoise: Vork
Cats: Scooby, Swiper, Zero, Dinah & Sykes
Suggies: Meeko, Willow & Nemo; Rei, Rafiki & Rajah; Opal, Lily & Link; Tael, Tatl & Navi; Kristoff Krabbs & Crabby Patty
:rbridge: Fern, Cjarsa, Syfka, Icarus, Ivy, Howie & Gracie

www.cinnamonstix-n-sugar.com
Re: Contracts [Re: eshaw] #1113177
05/13/11 12:52 PM
05/13/11 12:52 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,305
Florida, USA
oakley Offline
Glider Slave
oakley  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,305
Florida, USA
Just another point. I feel strongly that a contract protects both the SELLER and the BUYER equally. As a breeder, I require a filled out adoption application before I will even discuss selling, and then I require a contract before I ever receive a down payment.

As a buyer, a contract makes me feel secure that both parties know exactly what is going on. I know how much I will pay, when I have to pay it, and how I am protected (ie health guarantees etc.) I also love a contract as a buyer because there is no chance that the seller can come back to me at a later date and demand more money or even demand to have the animal back. If that were to ever happen, I would just take out the contract with their signature on it that detailed the exact purchase price as well as the terms of the sale and match that up to the amount I'd paid (via check or PayPal or whatever) and there is no authority anywhere (take it to any judge you want) who would look at all of that and tell me that I do not legally own the glider or that I did not pay in full.

Lastly, in the event of a payment plan, a carefully thought out contract leaves no room for confusion and I think it helps get gliders into good homes that cannot afford them immediately. Sellers feel more secure with a payment plan if they have it in writing and I think someone would be asking to be taken advantage of if they sold a glider with a payment plan and then didn't have a written and signed (and maybe even notarized) contract.

Just my 2 wink


Meghan

~__/>
{{ }}


Suggies: Basil, Mausi, Bagheera/Baloo, & the Trio
Dogs : Pretzel/Snickers
Horse: Nugget
RIP: Gato, Pepito, Pepper, and Mowgli gangel


Oakley's Glider Site
Re: Contracts [Re: eshaw] #1113185
05/13/11 01:10 PM
05/13/11 01:10 PM
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 3,039
Bristol, Va
MissSarah Offline
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MissSarah  Offline
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Posts: 3,039
Bristol, Va
I have a question. Does the contract have to be notarized before its valid? Or will it hold up with just the two parties signatures? Just for general information. smile


Proud Mom to Princess Pim The Insane. heart(and several other babies, skin and fur.)

Dogs have owners. Cats have staff. Gliders have indentured servants.

:rbridge: Dexter. You left blueberry stains on my wall and pawprints on my heart. I love you Decker-Boy. heart
Full Moon Gliders
(Under Construction)

Re: Contracts [Re: Usha77] #1113187
05/13/11 01:19 PM
05/13/11 01:19 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
ValkyrieMome  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
Originally Posted By: Usha77
Originally Posted By: TheGliderPlayroom
Lack of funds won't stop me from placing a glider in a home I love, and a million dollars won't buy my babies to a home I distrust.


clap

And, I'm sorry, but knowing i am not a breeder (though I have many breeder friends and have gotten some amazing and incredibly loved joeys from them), this probably doesn't mean much - but I would run screaming from anyone who refused to sign a contract. What does that mean to me? It means they do not have the joey's best interest in mind. If they did, they would not hesitate to sign a contract that is looking out for that joey. Once again, just my 2 cents. wink


I seriously wonder when someone refuses to sign a contract. To me - that is a MAJOR red flag.

My contract, and the contracts of most breeders, only insure that the glider will be cared for. It is NOT about "controlling" the glider once it is sold. It is mostly to ensure that the person buying my glider is serious and responsible. If someone balks at signing, it makes me wonder what their ulterior motives are.


Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
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