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Possible Cage Syndrome #1373331
07/06/14 09:19 PM
07/06/14 09:19 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 8
Maryland
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glideNswim Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 8
Maryland
Let me start by introducing myself. My name is Tyler. I currently have 4 gliders.  Two standard grey rescues and a 11 week standard grey joey and a 10 week wfb joey.

So to begin, our rescue gliders had two joeys oop 05/19/2014. Twins! We were excited. When they got to 9 weeks old, we decided to begin the seperation process to avoid inbreeding. We purchased a large pvc cage for them. They were in it less a week, about 6 days. On the 3rd we noticed the male joey, Michael was shaking pretty bad and a slight lack of cooridnation. More than usual. We called our vet and they didnt seem too concerned and told is they had no openings. We went out for the day came back and found him not able to control any movement. He was all over the place. We immediately called an emergency vet an hour away and went(9pm). They were unable to give us any idea of what it was. They wanted to do blood work but for $350 and only a 50% success rate as they told us, we opted out of that. They gave him fluid, a b vitamin, calcium glutamate and an antibiotic.

They gave us a thing of calcium glutamate and told to give for 5 days. As well as a antibiotic every 12hrs for 14days. They also diagnosed him with tremor disorder.

We got home and kept michael in a blanket to help decrease the amount of tremmors. He and I both fell asleep while holding him. When I woke up he had passed. That was at 6am.

That afternoon they female joey, Fi (fee) started showing the same symptoms. We decided itd be best to transfer Michael's treatment to her. We began as soon as we noticed the symptoms. I noticed while in the cage she was chewing pretty intently on the cage. I knew about the bad cages years ago and immediately removed her when I saw that. Her symptoms have not progressed as quickly as his. She made it until today with only alight neurological problems. We have been pushing fluids as much as we can. Using pedialyte with a syringe to help with dehydration. She is urinating frequently. However, her symptoms are relatively bad now. Loss of almost all coridination. She is able to control hindlegs until the tremors start. Her head is shaking too much to eat but I have been feeding bml and glider crack by syringe.

The parents are in a powder coated cage and have always been. Fi has been inside the cage ever since also.

I think it was the pvc cage. It was the only thing that changed. According to the vet our diet shouldnt have caused hlp. We do the bml diet. They mentionedbpossible genetics.

I am not asking for advice. We have spoken to our vet. We are following what they said. We unfortunately dont have the resources to spend thousands on a pet. We love them but we have to do what is fincianlly responsible. Especially with what we already spent on the night trip to the vet.

MY QUESTION is: those gliders that did survive the cage syndrome, how long was it before the symptoms started to clear up? I cannot find any information in that reguard. All I could find was to push fluids.

Fi is fighting. But she has slept no more than 2 hours in the last 24hrs. Im scared for her.

Im hoping that the slow progression of this is due to a lower exposure to what ever caused it.

Thanks in advance.

Last edited by GliderNursery; 07/06/14 10:12 PM. Reason: removed dosage
Re: Possible Cage Syndrome [Re: glideNswim] #1373334
07/06/14 10:04 PM
07/06/14 10:04 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 86
fayetteville nc
N
nick Offline
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nick  Offline
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N

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 86
fayetteville nc
hi and welcome the glider central so sorry that your first post has to be in our ergency section but hopefully somebody with some answers will be hear in a little bit more experience will be with you shortly just please keep us posted

Re: Possible Cage Syndrome [Re: glideNswim] #1373338
07/06/14 10:17 PM
07/06/14 10:17 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
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GliderNursery  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
I'm sorry to hear that you are having these issues. As you vet indicated, since the parents are rescues, its possible that its genetic rather than the cage. Just in case it is the cage, have you removed the joey from that cage? I will see if I can find anything in the archives. Can you tell us when and where you purchased the PVC cage?

Going to move this to Health & Hygiene for you now.


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: Possible Cage Syndrome [Re: glideNswim] #1373353
07/06/14 10:50 PM
07/06/14 10:50 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 8
Maryland
G
glideNswim Offline OP
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glideNswim  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 8
Maryland
At first I agreed with the vet on genetics. Although the people we took the parents from said they came from different breeders. They were 2 of 7 gliders there. She has been removed from the cage. She was removed as soon as the symptoms began. The only reason I dont agree with the vet on genetics now is because of how close these two events happened. I have my bachelors in molecular biology and took quite a few advanced genetic courses. From my experience and understanding of genetics, the likelihood of them having the same genetic problem is high, since they are twins. However, the likelihood of the symptoms manifesting at the same time is highly unlikely and more so improbable. Is it possible yes but I fear this is somethin else. If it happened months or weeks apart id agree with genetics. However this happened at practically the same exact time. If you have seen the gliders that were affect by cage syndrome on youtube, that is exactly what michael looked like. I know that can also mean other things too.

The cage I bought was purchased at a That Pet Place in Lancaster, Pa. The cage I bought is produced by a company in PA.
Company is Pointer Hill Pet. They claim their cages are safe for gliders. But I fear they arent.

Thank you so much for the responses and any help. I've been searching for hours gor answers

Re: Possible Cage Syndrome [Re: glideNswim] #1373359
07/06/14 10:57 PM
07/06/14 10:57 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
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GliderNursery  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
I'd have to agree with you on the genetic issue.

I've never heard of that particular company, but if the wire (not the cage but the wire itself) was manufactured by Riverdale, then it very well could be the "toxic cage" that you've read about.

I'll contact Nancy G. to see if she can help you out. She experienced these issues as well and could probably help you the best.


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: Possible Cage Syndrome [Re: glideNswim] #1373368
07/06/14 11:40 PM
07/06/14 11:40 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
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hwh4ev Offline
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hwh4ev  Offline
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Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
i am sorry to hear abt. your joeys. your joeys symptoms were
the same as my trio, they were joeys also abt. 3 months oop. my joeys could not walk straight, climb on anything, losing all of their coordination. i lucked out, but many of my friends lost their gliders.

my doctor treated my gliders with meds for toxic cage wire, she said she saw this alot in birds.

anyway, all 3 of my joeys were given injections of calcium edta, vitamin b-12, subcutaneous fluids. my vet also sent me home with edetate calcium disodium (calcium edta, but not as effective as the shots). they had to take the oral for a week.

with 3 gliders all getting these injections it cost 384.00 but my joeys cleared up symptoms fast on this regimen.

the pvc wire cages involved were: castle cage, tower cage, mansion cage, travel cage. all pvc coated cages from exoticnutrition.com but they got rid of the pvc and replaced the cages with powder coated cages, i have one as they replaced the bad cages to people that were effected by this.

riverdale and klubertanz sell this wire knowing it is bad for gliders and people are still losing their gliders over this.

i hope you can print this and show your vet,maybe the calcium edta injection and the oral plus subcutaneous fluids, etc. will keep your joey alive.

again so sorry, hugs.



regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)
Re: Possible Cage Syndrome [Re: glideNswim] #1373370
07/07/14 12:26 AM
07/07/14 12:26 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
H
hwh4ev Offline
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hwh4ev  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
glidenswim,
can you please tell me where you bought your pvc cage at and the company name?

thank you.


regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)
Re: Possible Cage Syndrome [Re: glideNswim] #1373375
07/07/14 07:39 AM
07/07/14 07:39 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 8
Maryland
G
glideNswim Offline OP
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glideNswim  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 8
Maryland
Originally Posted By: glideNswim

The cage I bought was purchased at a That Pet Place in Lancaster, Pa. The cage I bought is produced by a company in PA.
Company is Pointer Hill Pet. They claim their cages are safe for gliders. But I fear they arent

Re: Possible Cage Syndrome [Re: hwh4ev] #1373378
07/07/14 08:33 AM
07/07/14 08:33 AM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 193
Georgia
K
Kesha Offline
Glider Explorer
Kesha  Offline
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K

Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 193
Georgia
Thanks for sharing your story. It was very helpful and informative. I don't think it's genetics that affected the other gliders. Sorry to hear about the lost of the other gliders. I think they were affected by a toxic cage. I remember watching that veterinarian series on owning gliders and he said gliders will experience these symptoms if they are exposed to a toxic cage/rust or if they don't get a daily dose of calcium (served on their food).The gliders will become paralyzed.

Re: Possible Cage Syndrome [Re: hwh4ev] #1373379
07/07/14 08:37 AM
07/07/14 08:37 AM
Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 193
Georgia
K
Kesha Offline
Glider Explorer
Kesha  Offline
Glider Explorer
K

Joined: Nov 2013
Posts: 193
Georgia
I've read that powdered coated cages are safe for gliders.

Re: Possible Cage Syndrome [Re: glideNswim] #1373380
07/07/14 08:59 AM
07/07/14 08:59 AM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 8
Maryland
G
glideNswim Offline OP
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glideNswim  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 8
Maryland
Hwh4ev.
Thank you so much for the response and information. Fi is currently on the way to the vet for that treatment. I really appreciate it.

I checked on her every 2 hours over the night. At 4am I found her in the middle of the cage floor lying there. My heart sank bc I thought she had passed. When I picked her up she was very cold and barely moving.
I immediately woke up my girlfriend and we heated up some fleece and wrapped her up to get her warm. I also kept her balled up in my hand. I fell asleep holding her like this. I woke up about an hour or so later bc her tremors started up again. I kept her balled up in my hand but put her and my hand in her bonding pouch. She stayed that way until I woke up at 7:45 (late for work). She is back to trembling and trying to sleep. Wish fi luck at the vet.

Re: Possible Cage Syndrome [Re: glideNswim] #1373389
07/07/14 09:38 AM
07/07/14 09:38 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 978
Dutchess County, NY
Biscuit Offline
Glider Guardian
Biscuit  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 978
Dutchess County, NY
I am wishing you luck at the vets. I have had a strange experience with one of my gliders who I actually thought had passed because she was so cold and not moving. I used my body heat to warm her up and she ended up being alive and was okay. I don't know why it happened. If you can keep her on you (on your chest under your shirt) to keep her warm, that might be a better idea than heating things up to make sure not to overheat the glider.

I would return that cage ASAP. It sounds to me like it is the cage that caused this. upset I would go with a cage that is known to be safe for gliders (such as an HQ cage). e.g., http://www.hayneedle.com/product/hqwroug...CFWMQ7AodeQgARA


So sorry to hear you are going through this. hug2



~ Laurie ~
Mother to

:wfb: Topanga, :grey: Biscuit, Toby, :leu: Thor & :plat: Akiah [Kiah]


www.lauriessugglettes.weebly.com

gangel My Lost Loves, Rascal, March 30, 2012, Bugaboo, Sept 7, 2012 & Momma, Feb 27, 2013


Re: Possible Cage Syndrome [Re: Kesha] #1373395
07/07/14 09:48 AM
07/07/14 09:48 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 978
Dutchess County, NY
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Glider Guardian

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 978
Dutchess County, NY
Originally Posted By: Kesha
or if they don't get a daily dose of calcium (served on their food).The gliders will become paralyzed.


If a glider is on an approved diet it should not require additional calcium supplements (e.g., BML or HPW).



~ Laurie ~
Mother to

:wfb: Topanga, :grey: Biscuit, Toby, :leu: Thor & :plat: Akiah [Kiah]


www.lauriessugglettes.weebly.com

gangel My Lost Loves, Rascal, March 30, 2012, Bugaboo, Sept 7, 2012 & Momma, Feb 27, 2013


Re: Possible Cage Syndrome [Re: glideNswim] #1373400
07/07/14 10:13 AM
07/07/14 10:13 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
H
hwh4ev Offline
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hwh4ev  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
praying your baby will make it thru this.

good luck.


regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)
Re: Possible Cage Syndrome [Re: hwh4ev] #1373402
07/07/14 10:25 AM
07/07/14 10:25 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,789
St. Johns, Florida
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Srlb  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,789
St. Johns, Florida
As much as people do not want to hear this....


when you take your baby back into the vet, please tell them they can find several cases of this issue on the ASGV website and what the vets treatment plan was with other gliders that were affected. Thankfully many of the gliders that were caught in time and proper treatment given, with being in the safe cage, many gliders survived. However, there are still a few that will have issues for the rest of their lives as well.

Yes, Extra calcium may be required, even if on a proper diet, since when animals (and humans) get sick and are battling an illness they pull nutrients from where ever they can get them to fight it off.

Follow your vets protocol and if your vet would like to speak to another vet that worked with the toxic cage syndromes please contact me with your vets information and I will call them with Dr. Tim Tristans phone number and they can reach him.

Best of luck.


Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love® Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: Possible Cage Syndrome [Re: glideNswim] #1373416
07/07/14 11:39 AM
07/07/14 11:39 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,216
Washington D.C. Metro Area
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
DCMuffin  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,216
Washington D.C. Metro Area
Tyler - I sent you a PM. I'm in Arlington, VA, relatively close by. Please let me know if I can help you with anything.

Re: Possible Cage Syndrome [Re: glideNswim] #1373426
07/07/14 01:15 PM
07/07/14 01:15 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 8
Maryland
G
glideNswim Offline OP
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glideNswim  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 8
Maryland
Thanks for the support and information everyone.

My girlfiend took Fi to the vet this morning. The vet recommend we leave her for the day for treatment. They spoke about cage syndrome and began treatment for that as well as a few other things. I believe some of the others were low blood sugar and high blood pressure. I called the vet a bit ago to get a update. She was unfortuntely in surgey(with another pet). I scared my girlfriend when I told her that. :o but we are to pick her up at 7ish but they informed me that there has been no improvement as of yet.

We are going to do everything we can for her.

We only used the heated fleece for a few minutes. I sleep cold. So my body heat at the time wasnt much better I thought.

Also we feed the bml diet.

Re: Possible Cage Syndrome [Re: glideNswim] #1373430
07/07/14 01:52 PM
07/07/14 01:52 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,560
Long Island, NY
yiyo Offline
Serious Glideritis
yiyo  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,560
Long Island, NY
Please take Aimee (DcMuffin) up on her offer. Her knowledge and experience are amazing and she'll have advice to offer and may also be able to get her vet to speak with yours as well.

Look for the little white flashing envelope in the top center of your screen to read the PM she sent you.


Alyssa

"Moving on is a simple thing, what it leaves behind is hard."
Re: Possible Cage Syndrome [Re: yiyo] #1373432
07/07/14 02:18 PM
07/07/14 02:18 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 978
Dutchess County, NY
Biscuit Offline
Glider Guardian
Biscuit  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 978
Dutchess County, NY
Originally Posted By: yiyo
Please take Aimee (DcMuffin) up on her offer. Her knowledge and experience are amazing and she'll have advice to offer and may also be able to get her vet to speak with yours as well.

Look for the little white flashing envelope in the top center of your screen to read the PM she sent you.


:agreed: :gidea: Sending good vibes your way hug2



~ Laurie ~
Mother to

:wfb: Topanga, :grey: Biscuit, Toby, :leu: Thor & :plat: Akiah [Kiah]


www.lauriessugglettes.weebly.com

gangel My Lost Loves, Rascal, March 30, 2012, Bugaboo, Sept 7, 2012 & Momma, Feb 27, 2013


Re: Possible Cage Syndrome [Re: glideNswim] #1373433
07/07/14 02:19 PM
07/07/14 02:19 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 8
Maryland
G
glideNswim Offline OP
New Member
glideNswim  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 8
Maryland
I have just messaged Aimee.

And another update, Fi will be coming home tonight. I was asked by a moderator not to share what medications we are recieving out of fear of people trying to self medicate their gliders. I completely agree with this statement so I have edited this post to reflect that. All I know as of now for medication is that Fi will be recieving 2 injections a day of a medicibe to help flush the toxins.

Last edited by glideNswim; 07/07/14 03:06 PM.
Re: Possible Cage Syndrome [Re: glideNswim] #1373454
07/07/14 08:23 PM
07/07/14 08:23 PM
Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 8
Maryland
G
glideNswim Offline OP
New Member
glideNswim  Offline OP
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Joined: Jul 2014
Posts: 8
Maryland
Thanks everyone for the support.
Unfortunately Fi passed as we were driving to the vet.
She has been burried next to her brother and they will be together in glider heaven.

Please anyone thinking of buying a pvc coated cage. DON'T. Learn from my mistake. I lost my bestfriend today.

Re: Possible Cage Syndrome [Re: glideNswim] #1373473
07/08/14 07:03 AM
07/08/14 07:03 AM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 978
Dutchess County, NY
Biscuit Offline
Glider Guardian
Biscuit  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 978
Dutchess County, NY
I am so very sorry to read this. hug2

My thoughts & prayers are with you today.

Glide Free Fi :rbridge:



~ Laurie ~
Mother to

:wfb: Topanga, :grey: Biscuit, Toby, :leu: Thor & :plat: Akiah [Kiah]


www.lauriessugglettes.weebly.com

gangel My Lost Loves, Rascal, March 30, 2012, Bugaboo, Sept 7, 2012 & Momma, Feb 27, 2013


Re: Possible Cage Syndrome [Re: glideNswim] #1373480
07/08/14 08:09 AM
07/08/14 08:09 AM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,560
Long Island, NY
yiyo Offline
Serious Glideritis
yiyo  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,560
Long Island, NY
hug2 hug2 hug2


Alyssa

"Moving on is a simple thing, what it leaves behind is hard."
Re: Possible Cage Syndrome [Re: glideNswim] #1373491
07/08/14 11:58 AM
07/08/14 11:58 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
Tech Admn
GliderNursery  Offline
Tech Admn

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
I'm sorry to hear this. I would encourage you to contact the company you purchased the cage from to let then know of the situation. They may not know about the toxicity issue.

Moving this to Rainbow Memorials for you. hug2


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: Possible Cage Syndrome [Re: glideNswim] #1373500
07/08/14 02:01 PM
07/08/14 02:01 PM
Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 86
fayetteville nc
N
nick Offline
Joey Member
nick  Offline
Joey Member
N

Joined: Jun 2014
Posts: 86
fayetteville nc
So sorry for your loss hug2 let us know if there us anything we can do


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