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Re: Wet introductions, reposted [Re: sugarlope] #1053025
01/10/11 03:36 AM
01/10/11 03:36 AM

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Span,
LGRS is not the creator of this method. The creator of this method, whom I cannot name as I'd then be breaking GC rules, owns SEVERAL gliders. Recently he used this method to put a group of 3 and a group of 4 together. Tell me, were any of those gliders lonely and in desperate need of mates?

No, they were not. The people using these methods are simply wanting to cut down on the number of cages they have to deal with.

I understand not wanting excess cages. Trust me I do.

At one point my living room was bombarded with cages and glider smells. I hated it. But I followed safe processes and procedures.

I now have a cage of 2 and a cage of 3. One of my girls in my trio does NOT want the duo, although she's SLOWLY (seemingly) coming around to the idea.

The fact of the matter is that there are SERIOUS DANGERS to this method, which is why I will not be using it nor recommending it, ever.

Read the previous posts that cover the dangers. This is not right or fair. This IS animal abuse.

Last method nothing. If gliders don't want to be together, don't you think they have a right to not be forced to live with others they CLEARLY do NOT like!?

I can't imagine being forced to live with my crazy ex and his crazier wife, all because somebody bigger than us want us together so they don't have to 'deal' with 'extra work'.

When you take in several gliders from various locations, you run the risk of forever having more than one cage. Don't like it? Don't do it!

Re: Wet introductions, reposted [Re: sugarlope] #1053030
01/10/11 03:48 AM
01/10/11 03:48 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,527
Lake Havasu City, AZ
Marsupial_Mayhem Offline
Glider Slave
Marsupial_Mayhem  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,527
Lake Havasu City, AZ
Yes but the rescue you mention is endorsing this method and stands behind it. Which leads me to believe he practices the method himself. If he is doing this, then he shouldn't have a rescue.


Danielle G.
USDA Breeder

www.Mylittlesugarglider.com

Slave to Sugar Gliders since 1997



:leu: = Abercrombie

:wfb: = Verbena :rtmo: = Saukura :cream: = Merry Christmas :plat: = Willie Wonka :plat: = Magdalena

Re: Wet introductions, reposted [Re: wildlifeangel] #1053031
01/10/11 03:51 AM
01/10/11 03:51 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,527
Lake Havasu City, AZ
Marsupial_Mayhem Offline
Glider Slave
Marsupial_Mayhem  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,527
Lake Havasu City, AZ
I know this area is very sensitive. I would think the glider would know something that stings is on this area before he even grooms it.

I can't believe we have to talk about this. This is insane.

Thanks for sharing your experience on this Nadine.

I still just keep shaking my head with this whole issue.


Danielle G.
USDA Breeder

www.Mylittlesugarglider.com

Slave to Sugar Gliders since 1997



:leu: = Abercrombie

:wfb: = Verbena :rtmo: = Saukura :cream: = Merry Christmas :plat: = Willie Wonka :plat: = Magdalena

Re: Wet introductions, reposted [Re: Sydvicious] #1053032
01/10/11 03:53 AM
01/10/11 03:53 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,527
Lake Havasu City, AZ
Marsupial_Mayhem Offline
Glider Slave
Marsupial_Mayhem  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,527
Lake Havasu City, AZ
Originally Posted By: Sydvicious
FOR ALL MODS:PLZ BE AWARE THAT THIS IS NOT A BASHING POST!!! I am legally bound as a fellow charitable organization to try and stop the abuse of animals so please do not think I am trying to bash anyone, I am trying to give people on this forum an opportunity to legally do something about the subject at hand.

This is directed at all those people that want to legally do something to stop the abuse of gliders due to this topic...I am the president of a 501 (c) 3 dog rescue and can tell you that what we have been discussing all day is legally considered animal cruelty and can be stopped. As a charitable organization rescues are under the obligation to help and preserve the health and well being of all animals and if a handling technique if found to be inhumane then they have an obligation to change that technique.

If this is somehow compromised then we as citizens have the right to stop the abuse that is being done. I am willing to send this "rescue" a letter in hopes that they will conform to the correct way to treat animals but I will need your help so that we as a collective group will be able to, if necessary, report them to their local authorities in hopes that maybe they will do something to stop the cruelty. I am looking for people willing to at the very least sign a petition to help me stop this, if you are interested please PM me and let me know.
Thank you. We do have a representative of the mill breeder Project on this right now.


Danielle G.
USDA Breeder

www.Mylittlesugarglider.com

Slave to Sugar Gliders since 1997



:leu: = Abercrombie

:wfb: = Verbena :rtmo: = Saukura :cream: = Merry Christmas :plat: = Willie Wonka :plat: = Magdalena

Re: Wet introductions, reposted [Re: sugarlope] #1053033
01/10/11 03:56 AM
01/10/11 03:56 AM

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Danielle,
You're right. LGRS, as I said, is NOT the creator, but they do practice this method. I've NEVER had an issue with them or their practices, but THIS bothers me.

Re: Wet introductions, reposted [Re: ] #1053037
01/10/11 04:09 AM
01/10/11 04:09 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,038
Martinsburg, WV
myliljadagirl Offline
Glider Guardian
myliljadagirl  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,038
Martinsburg, WV
Originally Posted By: Span
"last resort"

Maybe you should take a step back and see the good the ***k* ***d*r ***c*e does for gliders, and ask what the real intention is here. They aren't doing this for fun.


"last resort" that is why it say's on a web site from this "place" that they "recommend" the "method" I am sorry...this was not being called a "last resort"


Also...you say take a step back, well maybe others that agree with this "method" should take a step back and look at it another way!

-If you have one person tell you something you are doing could be "wrong" or harmful...you most likely do not really stop doing it! (unless there is solid proof...or till more agrees)

-However if you have a community of people telling one something is wrong, and could KILL an animal, what do you think should be done???

I am sorry...but at this point...this is no better then (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets!!! And I hope everything is done to prevent them and relieve them from further care of Glider!


Cole-Mum to
8 Gliders-
Peppermint :leu: & Porsche
Jada, & Orchid :grey:
Benz, :rtmo: Gomer
Preston & Lina :wfb:
:rbridge: Sydney, & Ozzie!
www.Facebook.com/naturalglider
www.Naturalglider.weebly.com

Re: Wet introductions, reposted [Re: sugarlope] #1053042
01/10/11 04:38 AM
01/10/11 04:38 AM
Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 29
missouri
shadow_ Offline
In Pouch
shadow_  Offline
In Pouch

Joined: Apr 2010
Posts: 29
missouri
omg yeah this rescue who feeds their gliders a great diet, big cages,vet care and good homes is no better then (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets the mill broker who gives out bad info, feeds pellets, and gives the glider to anyone who has money. so lets focus all our energy into taking down this rescue instead of some other mill breeder or whatever person.
(hope i can say all that here never posted before)


2 sugar glider brothers named Rune and Vash
sugar glider and a Halloween addict :D
Re: Wet introductions, reposted [Re: sugarlope] #1053043
01/10/11 04:45 AM
01/10/11 04:45 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,456
Saint Louis MO
xSwtxSugaX Offline
Glider Addict
xSwtxSugaX  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,456
Saint Louis MO
Haha!! (sorry not really a laughing matter) I just went on the forum and checked out the whole debate. I have to say I def do not agree with this one bit, but I have to add Elena AWESOME job puuting up a fight girl. Im sure there were many more who posted there that i didnt recognize but bravo. And the person who directed everyone here, that made me chuckle smile Way to hit them where it hurts wink

I love everyone here so much smile Really I do!!!


On to the subject at matter tho. It seems everyone following this method cant get there info straight. One person says to do it one way and then the next person gets defensive and says that "we" (people who dont agree) dont know what were talking about, to read the directions, and do it a totally different way than stated.

Gliders are exotic animals, and exotic animals in my opinion are fragile and have to have special treatment and care given. Even if its "a little water" like they are stating... a little water for an hour is absolutely outragous. I give my cat a bath... but I dont make her suffer through it for an hour. more like 5 min. If its not abuse then its just cruel. And they keep stating its last resort. If its last resort why are SO MANY of them doing it. Seems like there trying to just make things easier on themselves.


"The purity of a person's heart can be quickly measured by how they regard animals"

*Stitch* :grey: *Button* :wfb: *Charlie* :leu:

Cats: Rista and Cali

~*Stacie*~
Re: Wet introductions, reposted [Re: xSwtxSugaX] #1053048
01/10/11 05:00 AM
01/10/11 05:00 AM

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Megs
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Originally Posted By: xSwtxSugaX
Haha!! (sorry not really a laughing matter) I just went on the forum and checked out the whole debate. I have to say I def do not agree with this one bit, but I have to add Elena AWESOME job puuting up a fight girl. Im sure there were many more who posted there that i didnt recognize but bravo. And the person who directed everyone here, that made me chuckle smile Way to hit them where it hurts wink

I love everyone here so much smile Really I do!!!


On to the subject at matter tho. It seems everyone following this method cant get there info straight. One person says to do it one way and then the next person gets defensive and says that "we" (people who dont agree) dont know what were talking about, to read the directions, and do it a totally different way than stated.

Gliders are exotic animals, and exotic animals in my opinion are fragile and have to have special treatment and care given. Even if its "a little water" like they are stating... a little water for an hour is absolutely outragous. I give my cat a bath... but I dont make her suffer through it for an hour. more like 5 min. If its not abuse then its just cruel. And they keep stating its last resort. If its last resort why are SO MANY of them doing it. Seems like there trying to just make things easier on themselves.



I agree entirely!
I can't post on GG any longer as I left. Long and involved story, but that's not what we're here for. wink
I have read the threads involving this. (I didn't catch 'who' Elena was. For shame! lol)

But I am impressed with the number of 'newbs' who signed up merely to speak their peace.

If only people would pay attention to the facts. But, like has been said, it appears this method is merely being used now to 'make life easy' on the humans. Apparently the emotional and psychological state of our gliders don't matter.

Re: Wet introductions, reposted [Re: sugarlope] #1053052
01/10/11 05:13 AM
01/10/11 05:13 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,456
Saint Louis MO
xSwtxSugaX Offline
Glider Addict
xSwtxSugaX  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,456
Saint Louis MO
Elena is hpyhwn2003 here on GC as well as there forum. (atleaste I assumed since they are exactly the same) Dont know her personaly but have heard alot of good things about her. smile

And catman, I understand everyone has different ideas of animal cruelty, by law some things skim by because of certain issues. In dogs they have to have there tails and ears clipped at a very young age, which I guess they consider ok since they wont remember it. It doesnt make it right. But everyone has there own opinions. think of taking someones worst fear and making them deal with it for an hour. I get how these people think they will get over this fear and group together but in some instances it is traumatizing. Put me in a tub of beetles for an hour im def not going to be ok wih it. Im going to have nightmares for years! I wouldnt even let my animals in the rain for an hour.

people were stating as well that sugar gliders come from a rainforest and get wet all the time. Im not an expert but 1) they have a huge amount of tree cover to hold alot of rain back and 2) im sure they have plenty of places to hide and keep warm in. Like I said.. could be wrong.. just my thoughts rambling on but I just dont think its right. IMO


"The purity of a person's heart can be quickly measured by how they regard animals"

*Stitch* :grey: *Button* :wfb: *Charlie* :leu:

Cats: Rista and Cali

~*Stacie*~
Re: Wet introductions, reposted [Re: shadow_] #1053055
01/10/11 05:21 AM
01/10/11 05:21 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,038
Martinsburg, WV
myliljadagirl Offline
Glider Guardian
myliljadagirl  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,038
Martinsburg, WV
Originally Posted By: shadow_
omg yeah this rescue who feeds their gliders a great diet, big cages,vet care and good homes is no better then (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets the mill broker who gives out bad info, feeds pellets, and gives the glider to anyone who has money. so lets focus all our energy into taking down this rescue instead of some other mill breeder or whatever person.
(hope i can say all that here never posted before)


Well when a company and or an entity refuses to acknowledge that something they are doing is wrong even after it has been brought to there attention...yeah...I feel they can be compared.

If the company/and or entity were to admit that there choices are wrong, and things could be handled in a different fashion...I would have much more respect for that. It would be better to see a mistake...fix it, then for just hoping it will pass over and defending it!!

I hate to say this...but when you are in a rescue situation...no matter what good you do...one wrong...counteracts everything!!!


Cole-Mum to
8 Gliders-
Peppermint :leu: & Porsche
Jada, & Orchid :grey:
Benz, :rtmo: Gomer
Preston & Lina :wfb:
:rbridge: Sydney, & Ozzie!
www.Facebook.com/naturalglider
www.Naturalglider.weebly.com

Re: Wet introductions, reposted [Re: sugarlope] #1053056
01/10/11 05:28 AM
01/10/11 05:28 AM

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Stacie, I have a terrible habit of not even regarding screen names but rather merely paying attention to profile photos and signatures. xD

Now I recall the posts in which were by Elena. Yes, Elena is a good person. I've not gotten much liberty myself to speak to her one on one, although I recently added her to my FB so maybe soon. (Hint hint Elena!)

Also, you're totally right about your ideas about tree cover in the rainforest. In the rain forest, the treetops act as a barrier or an umbrella, keeping much of the ground dry. What dampens the ground is not actually rain itself but instead the humidity and the precipitation above. And gliders dwell IN trees, so they CAN keep dry. ((I LOVED studying the rainforest in school.. can you tell!?))

Originally Posted By: myliljadagirl
I hate to say this...but when you are in a rescue situation...no matter what good you do...one wrong...counteracts everything!!!


This is so very very true.

Re: Wet introductions, reposted [Re: myliljadagirl] #1053057
01/10/11 05:32 AM
01/10/11 05:32 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,346
South Africa
Bozeman Offline
Glider Slave
Bozeman  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,346
South Africa
Originally Posted By: myliljadagirl
I hate to say this...but when you are in a rescue situation...no matter what good you do...one wrong...counteracts everything!!!


So true. It is very important to gain, and keep, a glider's trust...


:grey: Casper (Bozeman) & Liezl (Gizmogirl):grey:
www.sugarglider.co.za
hug2

A glider's eyes have the power to speak a great language


PackinFuzz.com Sugar Glider Online Store

RIP: Sugar (2009) :grey:
You unfairly passed too young - your passing saved many gliders and will continue to do so
Re: Wet introductions, reposted [Re: sugarlope] #1053058
01/10/11 05:39 AM
01/10/11 05:39 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,456
Saint Louis MO
xSwtxSugaX Offline
Glider Addict
xSwtxSugaX  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,456
Saint Louis MO
If were making hints then I will as well... Elena.. HINT HINT!! haha. (I absolutely love elf btw)

Im glad I was correct about atleast one fact. With that I would have to say if I was ever in the situation I would have to send my babies to a rescue, if I found out they were trying this method on my Babies, Button and Stitch, I would have a fit. It just amazes me, I mean truelly amazes me that they keep stressing "last resort". But apparently there are videos on how to do it. Anyone can cross those and get the wrong idea. I just dont believe anyone should put an animal through stress like that except for last resort. Which in my mind is an animal very sick or dieing, going to the vet and being giving shots, medicine or surgery. Thats a stress of last resort. puting colonies together that wouldnt normaly get along to take down cage space is just waiting for trouble in my opinion.


"The purity of a person's heart can be quickly measured by how they regard animals"

*Stitch* :grey: *Button* :wfb: *Charlie* :leu:

Cats: Rista and Cali

~*Stacie*~
Re: Wet introductions, reposted [Re: sugarlope] #1053059
01/10/11 05:43 AM
01/10/11 05:43 AM

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Megs
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M



Not just waiting for trouble, but simply being selfish.

Like I said earlier.. I can't imagine being FORCED into being near my crazy ex and his crazy wife. There's a reason we don't get along. So, be avoid each other.

Same with gliders. If they don't get along. There's a reason, yet here people are, in all their selfish ways, forcing glider to TOLERATE each other all because they don't want 'extra cages'.

How very sad for these innocent animals. They depend on us, their owners, to protect them, yet we subject them to this.

*shakes head*

Re: Wet introductions, reposted [Re: Bozeman] #1053060
01/10/11 05:45 AM
01/10/11 05:45 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,038
Martinsburg, WV
myliljadagirl Offline
Glider Guardian
myliljadagirl  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,038
Martinsburg, WV
Originally Posted By: Bozeman
Originally Posted By: myliljadagirl
I hate to say this...but when you are in a rescue situation...no matter what good you do...one wrong...counteracts everything!!!


So true. It is very important to gain, and keep, a glider's trust...


thumb Thx!

Agree 100% If I were to have done this "method" to (and yes...I said "to") Jada...I feel it would have made her 10x worse then she was! I busted my bum off to get that little girl to trust me...and now she is a much more happy glider! Who loves her mum!

No way...no how! No "last resort" IDC


Cole-Mum to
8 Gliders-
Peppermint :leu: & Porsche
Jada, & Orchid :grey:
Benz, :rtmo: Gomer
Preston & Lina :wfb:
:rbridge: Sydney, & Ozzie!
www.Facebook.com/naturalglider
www.Naturalglider.weebly.com

Re: Wet introductions, reposted [Re: myliljadagirl] #1053061
01/10/11 05:49 AM
01/10/11 05:49 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,456
Saint Louis MO
xSwtxSugaX Offline
Glider Addict
xSwtxSugaX  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,456
Saint Louis MO
Originally Posted By: myliljadagirl
[

Agree 100% If I were to have done this "method" to (and yes...I said "to") Jada...I feel it would have made her 10x worse then she was! I busted my bum off to get that little girl to trust me...and now she is a much more happy glider! Who loves her mum!

No way...no how! No "last resort" IDC



Agreeable. My Button is a hand full, and still isnt easily bonded, I had to wipe her down with a wash cloth to get feces off her and she flipped out. Imagine me soaking her in water. She would NEVER bond with me.


"The purity of a person's heart can be quickly measured by how they regard animals"

*Stitch* :grey: *Button* :wfb: *Charlie* :leu:

Cats: Rista and Cali

~*Stacie*~
Re: Wet introductions, reposted [Re: xSwtxSugaX] #1053063
01/10/11 06:04 AM
01/10/11 06:04 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,038
Martinsburg, WV
myliljadagirl Offline
Glider Guardian
myliljadagirl  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,038
Martinsburg, WV
Yes...thank you...my point to a "t"

I just can't imagine who, or what she would have been like...and anyone who knew me from my first ohhhh 50 post's on here...there were time's that I questioned my continued glider ownership! I was so scared of doing something wrong...what if a new kid get's ahold of this information and does do it!

We then clean up the mess?!?! UGH! Damage has been done! What's next...water on the glider, water on you, water on the tent and then the glider will bond with you?!?! Oh wait...that is not cool because we are talking about people too now! (BTW please do not do this anyone...water on you, on a glider...just using as a very BAD example!)


Cole-Mum to
8 Gliders-
Peppermint :leu: & Porsche
Jada, & Orchid :grey:
Benz, :rtmo: Gomer
Preston & Lina :wfb:
:rbridge: Sydney, & Ozzie!
www.Facebook.com/naturalglider
www.Naturalglider.weebly.com

Re: Wet introductions, reposted [Re: sugarlope] #1053064
01/10/11 06:06 AM
01/10/11 06:06 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,456
Saint Louis MO
xSwtxSugaX Offline
Glider Addict
xSwtxSugaX  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,456
Saint Louis MO
haha! We can take showers with our gliders to bond better. What a silly idea wink


"The purity of a person's heart can be quickly measured by how they regard animals"

*Stitch* :grey: *Button* :wfb: *Charlie* :leu:

Cats: Rista and Cali

~*Stacie*~
Re: Wet introductions, reposted [Re: xSwtxSugaX] #1053065
01/10/11 06:16 AM
01/10/11 06:16 AM
Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,038
Martinsburg, WV
myliljadagirl Offline
Glider Guardian
myliljadagirl  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Sep 2010
Posts: 1,038
Martinsburg, WV
Sorry...had to add the "don't do this anyone" to protect the new kids and there gliders!!

But yeah...it is silly, but if you can get past the anger...putting gliders in a cage all wet I guess could be considered silly too...till s/o does it!

Ok no...still not silly!

I still say one of think's that makes me so upset is the people that are defending it!


Cole-Mum to
8 Gliders-
Peppermint :leu: & Porsche
Jada, & Orchid :grey:
Benz, :rtmo: Gomer
Preston & Lina :wfb:
:rbridge: Sydney, & Ozzie!
www.Facebook.com/naturalglider
www.Naturalglider.weebly.com

Re: Wet introductions, reposted [Re: sugarlope] #1053068
01/10/11 06:28 AM
01/10/11 06:28 AM
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,456
Saint Louis MO
xSwtxSugaX Offline
Glider Addict
xSwtxSugaX  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 3,456
Saint Louis MO
ok... not so silly. But im not gunna lie, I did have a quick image in my head of me in the shower, Stitch on my shoulder with a santa clause beard made out of bubbles. Now thats... silly smile


Sorry, had to lighten the mood somehow. Its in my nature laugh


"The purity of a person's heart can be quickly measured by how they regard animals"

*Stitch* :grey: *Button* :wfb: *Charlie* :leu:

Cats: Rista and Cali

~*Stacie*~
Re: Wet introductions, reposted [Re: sugarlope] #1053090
01/10/11 10:01 AM
01/10/11 10:01 AM

R
rammsteinmiss
Unregistered
rammsteinmiss
Unregistered
R



Span, im trying to empathize, but i have personal conflict with it. If these gliders are exposed to all this, how does it make things any better for them health wise and opinion wise of the human race? In the next few months i plan on making my 4 gliders into a colony, but if i know they just wont go together, why force them. Right now i clean 3 cages everyday and my largest one is about 5 feet tall, i dont mind as long as my babies are happy.

Re: Wet introductions, reposted [Re: sugarlope] #1053099
01/10/11 10:42 AM
01/10/11 10:42 AM

B
buttercup
Unregistered
buttercup
Unregistered
B



Quote:
I know this won't change anyone's opinions, but its considered a "last resort" for gliders who are desperate for mates.

Maybe you should take a step back and see the good the Lucky Glider Rescue does for gliders, and ask what the real intention is here. They aren't doing this for fun.


Wow I have a lot to say here but I'll be nice...but to me, the "last resort" would be to keep said gliders apart, in different cages until a more thought out and safe plan can happen. There is no reason to put these gliders through this torture...no reason at all.

Long story short...I had Quincy alone, took in J&B, thought "I can house all 3 together"...Quincy did NOT like J or B so I just bought 2 new cages instead of one and they were neighbors. Once I got Renny, Quincy responded very VERY positively to her, so after several weeks of cage item swapping, I was able to introduce them in a safe environment. If Renny never came along...I would have kept Quincy alone in a cage NEXT to J&B and not force them to live together so MY life would be easier taking care of one cage, not 2.

Some gliders are just not meant to be housed with other gliders...if you try and it doesn't go well, there are several other options besides this "method".

And OT..my boxer has NO problem with not having a tail he was what, a day old at the time??? I have a problem with his ears being cropped because I didn't want it done, my husband did. Would we do it again? NOPE...but that statment made above has nothing to do with the topic on hand...doing this to ANY animal so there are less cages to maintain to me means...stop having so many gliders...downsize in a more positive way (finding homes for them) and to NOT be a rescue.

If your hands are full...then re-examine YOUR situation, don't create a stressful, potentially dangerous situation to make YOUR life easier.

Re: Wet introductions, reposted [Re: sugarlope] #1053101
01/10/11 10:42 AM
01/10/11 10:42 AM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 340
Van Alstyne, Texas
Lucky_Glider Offline
Glider Lover
Lucky_Glider  Offline
Glider Lover

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 340
Van Alstyne, Texas
Kind people, I posted most of this on the other site. I see someone here who is a breeder is "out to get us" but I don't think everyone has all the facts. First, for any breeder to be moralizing about proper rescue is kind of ironic, seeing as there is an imbalance between breeding and rescue at the moment. But still everyone is entitled to their opinion. If any of you want to come to our rescue and inspect our methods, the health of the animals, our medical records - bring it on with or without a crew of officials, onlookers, and trouble-makers. Our rescue will not be brought down on such flimsy innuendo and pure opinion. Now try that with breeders who sell gliders in California who have fake addresses. So I am saying we relish our accountability and we are public. We are not afraid of being accountable out in the open. Are you?

So now I will offer you some facts and some opinion. I will then leave having spoken my peace. If anyone wants to call, write, petition, whatever you as a freeminded American (or not) are free to do so. We, unlike some people who hide behind fake names and have fake addresses and no published phone number - are out in the open for everyone to pick at and judge.

We will continue to publish our experiences in rescue for the benefit of the community as we have for years. Not everyone will agree with us. If we find a method that works we will use it. If it fails we will admit it. We are an open book and share our experiences to enrich and educate the community. So we don't hide under a rock and cower because something we have tried may be controversial.

Now here is what I said on the other site that I beg you to consider:

Guys, while I'm sorry this has gotten so heated and it saddens us that we have polarized the community and some of our old friends, we are still advocating this method if the circumstances call for it. We still care about all of you and of course the animals and beg you to treat us in good faith and extend the benefit of doubt to us. We try a lot of things to benefit the gliders and share them with you to help you all decide and learn. You don't have to like everything we do.

We have even tried chlomipramine (with vet supervision) on gliders to keep them from over-grooming. We feel like we have done it all. Besides malnutrition, the one of the biggest problems we have are the side-effects of being alone as a glider.

So because this method can work in certain circumstances, and because we have "tried it all" we felt compelled to share our experience knowing full well it may be controversial.

For those of you who want to conduct a mature and logical conversation about it, I am up for it. But for now I will simply memorialize our position the best I can for you all to judge us as you may.

We can justify what we are doing on moral grounds. How? Because abusive is allowing a single glider to languish, get depressed and hurt itself. Especially ones who over-groom and self-mutilate. This method, in some circumstances, can solve that. That's not abusive. That's improving the quality of life for the animal.

Until you have seen our operation, met the animals and review our medical records, you don't have a grasp of the magnitude of the problem dealing with single gliders who are hurting. Until you have dealt with that first hand (and not just with one pet) your perspective is somewhat limited. Not until someone has the guts to share their methods and post them is your perspective enabled to grow based on others' experiences. No amount of holding and cuddling a single, who clearly needs more care than a colony animal, is going to truly solve the problem.

There are few facts I would like to point out as an answer to some of the more random comments and then a few thoughts on animal abuse.

First a few facts:

1. My wife Gail is the full-time director of LGRS. That means it's her full time job. I support that financially with my job and we also get donations. Someone said that we are handling too many gliders. Well, if Gail were not a full time volunteer with her life dedicated to the animals, that may be true. But she is 100% dedicated. It's what she does "for a living." I help out with correspondence and fund raising. Before I go to work, I care for the ranch animals and again when I come home. We also have volunteers come twice a week to help us with cage cleaning and food prep. Our goal is to rescue, rehabilitate and adopt out healthy pets. A few are in sanctuary care. So before you judge and say we are handling too many pets - understand the facts. The only reason we have "too many" or any other rescue has "too many" is because we can't keep up with the greed of the breeders who tell lies about gliders in order to sell them. It's all the lies that create a situation where people are at our doorstep surrendering animals. So if you want to complain about who has "too many" animals talk to the people who have a thousand or more breeding pairs in tiny cube cages nailed to the wall. Really.

2. Over the years, we have experimented with different introduction techniques. We have published those. So now we are publishing our experiences with OUR VERSION of the "wet" one. Our resolve to share our experiences with the community has not changed, even with this controversy. Look, we have developed and practice all of the known techniques. This one is an alternative if other techniques fail.

We have also published information on breeders' lies, ratios, diet and all kinds of things. When you publish things, you will always have people who sit back and judge you - people who make no contribution to the community whatsoever except to cause trouble. And of course there are people who also contribute but simply don't agree with us on certain things. That's OK. We care about them all and everyone deserves to voice their opinion, because this is America and this is a public forum.

3. We do not advocate spraying them down with a shower. We do not do that. Instead, for the four individuals we have tried this on, I have cupped them in my hand and rubbed the tepid water onto them gently.

4. We have gotten numerous gliders soaking wet as a result of hydrotherapy treatments for open wounds. Them being wet does not hurt them. Repeat: It does not hurt them.

5. The mouthwash thing. Not alcohol-based mouthwash. no-sting mouthwash does not hurt them. It just helps to mask scent for a few hours.

Now a few thoughts on animal abuse:

Animal abuse: Hitting, striking, whipping, jabbing, stabbing
Animal abuse: Neglecting their nutritional needs
Animal abuse: Neglecting their medical needs
Animal abuse: Constant forced breeding which shortens their life
Animal abuse: Keeping them in tiny cage with no toys or protection
Animal abuse: Allowing constant extreme temperatures
Animal abuse: Allowing ongoing painful suffering
Animal abuse: Forcing single gliders to live alone
Animal abuse: Shipping them when you have no clue if there is a plane delay, etc. if they will sit in a hot or cold plane belly and die
Animal abuse: Exhausting animals with chores and work that hurts them
Animal abuse: Tight pens and force-feeding to fatten them for commercial gain
Animal abuse: Forcing them to cannibalize each other with illegal feeds
Animal abuse: Allowing them to fight without separating them
Animal Abuse: Forcing them to fight for sport
Animal abuse: Leashes or other restraints for long periods unless by medical order
Animal Abuse: Allowing an animal to self-mutilate or over-groom and not doing anything about it

NOT Animal abuse: Getting them wet for a few hours in order to improve the quality of their lives.
NOT Animal abuse: Immobilizing them to cut their nails
NOT Animal abuse: Neutering them so they don't procreate
NOT Animal abuse: Culling out fighters into separate cages

So there is our list.


For and in our judgment, it's about quality of life. That's what we strive for. This is a controversial method, but in some circumstances, we advocate it in order to improve their quality of life.


Improving the quality of life of these animals is not abusive. Not doing something to improve their quality of life is what's abusive.



By the way, Dizzy has stopped pulling out her own fur. Think about that

P.S. We do not advocate doing this just to join cages of multiple animals. We advocate trying it after other methods have failed for singles who have over-grooming, stress, or self-mutilation tendencies

Last edited by Lucky_Glider; 01/10/11 10:48 AM.

Lucky_Glider
Lucky Glider Rescue & Sanctuary
ed@LuckyGlider.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Re: Wet introductions, reposted [Re: sugarlope] #1053112
01/10/11 10:56 AM
01/10/11 10:56 AM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,346
South Africa
Bozeman Offline
Glider Slave
Bozeman  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 2,346
South Africa
Thank you for the response Ed.

I would like to take this opportunity to remind anyone who want to respond to his post to adhere to Rule 4:

4. GliderCENTRAL is a family oriented "G" rated board. Be polite, courteous and respectful to other board members at all times.



:grey: Casper (Bozeman) & Liezl (Gizmogirl):grey:
www.sugarglider.co.za
hug2

A glider's eyes have the power to speak a great language


PackinFuzz.com Sugar Glider Online Store

RIP: Sugar (2009) :grey:
You unfairly passed too young - your passing saved many gliders and will continue to do so
Re: Wet introductions, reposted [Re: Chris_R] #1053117
01/10/11 11:14 AM
01/10/11 11:14 AM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,640
Mims, Florida, USA
hushpuppy Offline
Glider Slave
hushpuppy  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,640
Mims, Florida, USA



I am just getting caught up on this and I have so many thoughts and emotions about this that I don't know where to start.

First, I would like to thank GC for allowing this discussion to continue here where it can be discussed rationally.

At this point I don't think I would do this. But I don't see this as being presented as a sure fire way to do introductions. I don't see them telling everyone that this should done in every situation. I see it as being presented as something that has been tried as a last resort and that has had some successes and some failures.

So what part of getting an animal wet is animal cruelty? Should we sign a petition against mother nature? Maybe if we get enough support we could do something to stop all that rain and flooding in Australia right now. And I think the rain hit the top of the trees in the rain forest and it didn't just stay there, it flowed down to the ground and accumulated there. Yes, I am being sarcastic. LOL I will try to contain myself.

So much of what I am reading here is opinion based in emotions; not facts. Gliders are a lot hardier than we give them credit for. Getting a glider wet does not cause any physical or emotional harm. Wetting a glider does not cause compromised immune systems, self mutilation, respiratory infections, death, or neurological problems...and it definitely will not cause them to mold or mildew.

BTW, if your glider does repetitive actions such as pacing, running circles and back flips, that is usually a learned behavior from excessive lack of enrichment at some point in the gliders life. Sorry that is off track, isn't it.

I don't know if this will pan out to be something that we can use in bonding or not. I do know that I trust the folks at LGRS. BTW for those of you who think they are just some little rescue, I can assure you that they are a legal 501c3 organization that has helped many, many gliders and many glider owners. I have watched Ed and Gail grow and sacrifice and put their whole life on hold for the love of their animals. That is why I trust their opinion.

Last edited by gliderdad79; 01/10/11 02:54 PM.

Anita Rae
StealthWheels, MagnumWheels and more at Atticworx

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Re: Wet introductions, reposted [Re: sugarlope] #1053125
01/10/11 11:38 AM
01/10/11 11:38 AM

M
Megs
Unregistered
Megs
Unregistered
M



Anita,
Pictures and video have surfaced of glider being COMPLETELY drenched, and this is causing an uproar, as are the 'directions' for the method, which I believe you can find on page one, but it may have been page two.

I don't have the time (nor patience, tbh) to delve further into other things you've mentioned, but you are indeed wrong on multiple accounts, including insignificant details to this controversy.

When I come back tonight, after I slave away for 10+ hours, should this thread be continuing, which I assume it will be, I will cover more.

Good day to you all.

Be nice! wink
lol

Re: Wet introductions, reposted [Re: Sydvicious] #1053130
01/10/11 11:43 AM
01/10/11 11:43 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
H
hwh4ev Offline
Glider Addict
hwh4ev  Offline
Glider Addict
H

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
syd,
i will sign your petition.

regards,
nancy in detroit


regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)
Re: Wet introductions, reposted [Re: sugarlope] #1053133
01/10/11 11:48 AM
01/10/11 11:48 AM

L
lovely1inred
Unregistered
lovely1inred
Unregistered
L



I've never heard anyone call washing a wound out with saline hydrotherapy before. sounds just like a name made up to make things sound bigger than they are. Wounds are cleaned and dressed - i. e. dried or bandaged - after the wetting. These gliders are not. I consider the practice being discussed here cruel and unusual.

Re: Wet introductions, reposted [Re: sugarlope] #1053137
01/10/11 11:53 AM
01/10/11 11:53 AM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,047
atkins arkansas
eterrell84 Offline
Glider Addict
eterrell84  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 3,047
atkins arkansas
ill sign any petition i can get my hands on. hydrotherapy has been around forever, but heres the definition: ***Hydrotherapy, formerly called hydropathy, involves the use of water for pain-relief and treating illness.***
just thought id clear that up.
also, anita, ive seen lots of accredited "rescuers" doing some terribly WRONG things. just because you have an accreditation with whoever, doesnt mean much to me. its how you treat the animals, make sure they have vet care (not saying they dont just saying)....


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