When I picked up Happy this evening to play, he was dirtier in his potty area than usual. However, everything looked ok. However, while I was holding him, he did his "duty", and hissed while going. I looked at him, and this is what I found - it looks like a bubble at the end, and only urine came out of the opening. When they go to the bathroom, don't they usually have their privates out as well? What is this bubble thing? It has fully retracted now (15 minutes later).
Re: HELP - Problem with privates
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#108086 06/06/0612:35 AM06/06/0612:35 AM
I agree, I've never seen anything like that and think a vet visit the sooner the better. I'm not sure I would even wait until morning if I could help it.
620-704-9109 Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.
I could have missed the pain But I'd of had to miss the dance
The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: HELP - Problem with privates
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#108089 06/06/0612:57 AM06/06/0612:57 AM
Blockage is possible...but you wouldn't expect to see anything around the cloaca in that case. I am uncertain in this case, but will go by what I know. Hissing when peeing speaks to UTI-and I would advise a vet visit with Urinalysis, fecal float, and fecal smear ASAP. As to the "bubble"...I am not certain on that, either(but no, you don't always see the privates, or penis in a male, when they urinate/defecate)...it could be you're seeing the inside of the cloaca opening due to straining-without seeing what's going on it's hard to tell.
I would recommend a vet with an eye to a 10-14 day course of a broad spectrum antibiotic, like Baytril or Clavamox even if nothing is found-just in case something is hiding. Gliders are normally very clean and well groomed animals when healthy, so if his fur is messy it is definitely cause for concern. There could also be more going on than just UTI...early in the game it can be difficult to judge by symptoms alone (hence the recommended tests)...the perverse thing with gliders is that by the time they do show symptoms of illnes is you usually have little time to act and try and get to the bottom of what is wrong, and treat--so wait and see can be dangerous as they usually won't show symptomology until something is well established.
Please get him into a vet asap, and let us know what the vet says.
At this point I usually wouldn't bring this up, but my instincts say I should--watch him close until you get him into the vet that he either does not start OBSESSIVELY cleaning the area (his privates)..or crabbing while paying attention to it...which can be an early sign of SM (self mutilation). If he does...get him into an ecollar IMMEDIATELY until you can get him to the vet, and at that time add a painkiller to your requests of a vet. Instructions for a collar can be found HERE. I'm not saying to put him in one now-just keep an eye on him. If he shows lethargy, is out not moving on floor of cage, unusual agression toward you or cagemates (which could indicate he is in pain), or other abnormal behavior, get him in to an emergency vet asap. I can offer a UT vet that will consult at night.
Jen/Colin Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed Sinbad, Gabby, Baby, and Alley
Re: HELP - Problem with privates
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#108090 06/06/0601:00 AM06/06/0601:00 AM
There are two things here that concern me in particular. The first is how wet the area seems to be (I had to copy the image into another program to a take a close enough look, but the base of the tail seems unusually wet to me), and the other concern I have is that he would be making any sort of noise when going to the bathroom (if it's not normal for him to be making that noise, then it's a concern.) Whatever's going on I don't think it's normal, so to be on safe side I'd reccomend taking him to an emergency vet tonight.
In the end it's up to you, but here's the info to contact the Pet ER, just in case you decide to go that route -
6360 South Highland Drive Salt Lake City, UT 84121
(801) 278-3367
Located Inside Cottonwood Animal Hospital, 1 block North of I-215 off the 2000 East exit
(I noticed you were in Utah, but I don't know where, so I took a guess. You'll want to call first to make sure that the vet on duty tonight can take care of your problems; if not, then another reccomendation can be made.)
Re: HELP - Problem with privates
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#108091 06/06/0601:07 AM06/06/0601:07 AM
We just looked at the pic (I'm sorry, I didn't realize it was there)...you definitely have some swelling there with fluid inside the anus...we have no idea why. It has fecal matter in the pic, so he seems to have something coming thru-I would be more inclined to think abscess or infection rather than blockage (tho I could not tell you what the cause is)...but wouldn't rule out blockage, if vet thinks that could happen from straining). You really need to get him into a vet..it should not look like that is about the best I can say, since I am not a vet. Yours should know. I would also advise enlarging and taking the picture with you, so he can get a good look, esp. if the little guy is uncooperative when there at showing the vet what's wrong. Believe me, a pic caught like that can be an invaluable resource. Please keep us updated.
Jen/Colin Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed Sinbad, Gabby, Baby, and Alley
Re: HELP - Problem with privates
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#108092 06/06/0601:10 AM06/06/0601:10 AM
Riverstone...I didn't even see UT-it's the consult vet I was going to recommend. Either Emch or Matheson will be in from 7pm to 7am for gliders...the visit is $65 and you don't need an appointment-just walk in. Tell them Glider Central sent you (Riker's mom)..they know me well.
Jen/Colin Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed Sinbad, Gabby, Baby, and Alley
Re: HELP - Problem with privates
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#108093 06/06/0601:33 AM06/06/0601:33 AM
I've seen Dr. Emch before; I took Flip in last time she developed a sinus infection, and they did a great job of taking care of things for her. So between that and knowing that both you and Monster have used them before, I figured that they'd be reccomendation number one at this time of night!
What does worry me the most about this case, to be perfectly honest with you, is that it looks an awful lot like the problems that Flop experienced in the days leading up to his death. I never got the problem properly identified because A: neither my cousin (who actually owned Flop, and owns Flip) nor I realized how serious it was at the time, so we didn't take Flop back in for an emergency visit when the medication we had been given by his regular vet wasn't working, and B: my cousin was unwilling to put his body through an autopsy after all he had suffered in life (even though I did reccomend it to him), but the fact that this case does remind me of that one sends up all kinds of red flags in my mind.
I feel absolutely AWFUL that I didn't take Flop into the emergency vet the SECOND he started going so much farther downhill than he had already been, and unfortunately I now understand all too well why such reccomendations get made; I'd hate to see this story turn out the same way, which is why I make the reccomendation in the first place.
Re: HELP - Problem with privates
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#108094 06/06/0601:58 AM06/06/0601:58 AM
Riverstone...this one is doing the same to me, even though I have not personally had a glider with wetness like that..my instincts are screaming vet ASAP. Treat whether you can find anything or not.
I also heard (through a 4th vet) that my gliders and those I personally refer (through GC) are all Matheson sees-don't know if it's true (but have no reason to doubt the source)..but if you need to say Jen (Xfilefan) and Corbin Bailey sent you if he's the one in and you have any issues (I dont' think you will-no one has I've referred)...they can call me (account is under Corbin Bailey)...and they know Riker and Chronos thoroughly. I am really worried about your little boy-please get him in and let us know what's going on. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worried2.gif" alt="" />
I am also thinking I've spoken to you on the phone before...maybe last fall? I can't remember if it was SM or a tail, or what, but I PMed my phone numbers. I'll put them here as well if you need them 435-783-6097 or Cell: 435-640-9438. If you need help, let me know-I'm about 45 min from the vet, up the mountain. If this guy has had previous issues, no matter if they seem unrelated, or insignificant, please let the vet know that also.
Edit: Riker (when he was SMing) was Dr. Emch's third glider he'd ever seen, back in 2003 - they'd not even been legal here a year yet. He has been with us from almost day 1, and has learned tons since. He has seen ALL of my gliders, and I sometimes go out of my way to visit him at night with a non critical case that can wait, just for his caring and experience. He is focused more on the animal than his pay more than ANY vet I've worked with (although I get the feeling Harris may prove similar, and came highly recommended by Emch, which made me comfortable when I scheduled a first visit with her for Chronos). I want a vet who puts the animal first, no matter what, and that is Emch-I would recommend him to ANYONE with a glider, and back up my recommendation.
Last edited by Xfilefan; 06/06/0602:03 AM.
Jen/Colin Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed Sinbad, Gabby, Baby, and Alley
Re: HELP - Problem with privates
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#108095 06/06/0603:52 AM06/06/0603:52 AM
Update - I have a disabled husband that I can not leave at night, so was not able to take Happy to the vet last night. However, I did spend the night on the floor in the hallway between the two rooms. Happy hissed several times during the night, but attached is the picture from this morning - still not normal, and will get to a vet today. The reason he was so wet last night - - Happy NEVER hisses or crabs, thus the name Happy, so when he started hissing, I knew something was wrong, and turned him over to look right away. He was probably still urinating when I was taking the pictures. He is eating and moving around the cage this morning, so I have an appt this afternoon. I will be taking him with me to work - just to be safe.
Re: HELP - Problem with privates
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#108097 06/06/0608:44 AM06/06/0608:44 AM
PS Thanks everyone for your help! I have seen Dr. Emch with Gidget when we thought she had HLP, so I know him and love him. Do you think I can wait until he is in tonight? Or should I go with the Dr. Im seeing this afternoon?
Re: HELP - Problem with privates
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#108098 06/06/0609:09 AM06/06/0609:09 AM
K..I have permission to update from the PM, so I'll do that. And I know Dr. Emch is hesitant when it comes to a possible surgery for these guys, so I have an appointment for Chronos and Binx Fri. afternoon and we're going to try and get a second opinion on this guy. 'Bubble' is still there, and he is not pooping as he should. Anyhow, here are the test results on the urine:
</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> I called Dr. Emch this am, and he said Happy could wait until tonight - So, I took Happy in. There is quite a bit of white cells in his urine. I know you know alot about results, so I'll list them for you. . Color - yellow; pH - 8-9; Protein - trace; Glucose - normal; Ketones - (-); Urobilinogen - normal; Bilirubin - (-); RBC/hpf - 1-3; WBC/hpf - 11-20; Epithelial Cells/hpf - 0; Bacteria/hpf - 11-20.
So, he prescribed .1 cc Trimethoprim-Sulfa Elixir 2xdaily, and .1 cc Suprenex .03mg/ml in syrup per total cc 3xdaily or as needed.
<hr /></blockquote><font class="post"> </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr /> Does he usually tell you "there's not much I can do with these little guys because they are so small."? He said that with Gidget as well, and Gidget ended up doing just fine. I just wonder if something else can be done, and he's afraid I might not want to pay or something ??? I don't know. I asked him if this could kill Happy, and he said "Yes, it could if it does not clear up. I don't like to surgery on these little guys because they end up SM'ing." I asked if surgery was a possibility, and he said just to wait and see what happens with this course of action first. What do you think? I'm just afraid for Happy.
<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
Emch has had a lot of the mill, broker gliders come to him (gun shows, home shows, fairs), many of the owners uninformed, and the gliders so sick by the time he got them, plus people either unwilling or unable to keep an ecollar on...and has lost a number of surgical cases to SM for those reasons....it's made him 'gun shy' so to speak when it comes to surgery. That's okay-he's a valuable resource for everything short of operating, so I won't push the issue with him, and Dr. Harris is willing...so between the two of them, you've got a great team, once you know where to go for what. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> I think he told me his concerns because we've been with him since his start with gliders-and probably wouldn't explain it to everyone. It's just because he cares so much, and doesnt' want to compound the problem with something requiring such specialized care. Even knowing me, he is hesitant with Chronos, but would do it if I insisted-I don't want to force the issue with him, and make him back off from seeing gliders...he's so good for everything else.
A lot of glider owners he sees are not endowed with the dedication and determination GC members mostly are. We can and will keep a collar on if it's necessary. And we do have a surgical resource if it's needed. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
So, unless something happens before Fri...we'll update on the visit then with more info.
For now, the test results were no crystals in urine, but 8-9 is VERY alkaline PH (it would feel like sandpaper for him to go pee)...trace protein might indicate kidney involvement, and his white bloodcell count was high-so his system IS fighting infection. Plus bacteria (likely with trimethoprim, mostly gram negative). Negative ketones and sugar content in urine rule out diabetes or that full blown kidney infection is likely, and the liver/kidney enzymes look good. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />
Jen/Colin Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed Sinbad, Gabby, Baby, and Alley
Re: HELP - Problem with privates
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#108101 06/08/0601:11 PM06/08/0601:11 PM
I don't like the look of this, and if the vet is giving you this kind of grief I would seek another one. I understand the fear of surgery, I don't do it either because of the fear of SM. However is it possible that his anal glands could also be impacted? Just a thought, as I have heard of this.
Re: HELP - Problem with privates
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#108102 06/08/0601:46 PM06/08/0601:46 PM
I honestly don't blame Dr. Emch for being a bit gunshy about surgery all things considered, and Dr. Harris does seem to be a good vet by all reports thus far, so I think it makes good sense to have Dr. Harris take a look at him on Friday and see what she says. The meds are good start based on the test results, and you can't get a better mentor for problems like this then Jen, so I know that both gidgetmom and Happy are in good hands right now.
Thanks for keeping us updated! I REALLY hope you get good news from Dr. Harris on Friday!
Re: HELP - Problem with privates
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#108103 06/08/0607:19 PM06/08/0607:19 PM
The update showed infection.. but that's not the half of it. There is good and bad news. The last couple days it has gotten harder for this guy to pee and poop-he really wasn't without help, and beginning to bloat...I was about panicking. I talked to Shaun this am on the phone to get an exact idea what his conditon was...and it could NOT wait until Friday. Although Dr. Harris' office said they had no appointments today...by the time I was done they said she could bring him in after work at noon, no appointment necessary, just whenever she got there with him. She took him in as soon as she was off, and I had an update by 1pm (sorry-middle of the night for me...so it waited until I got up to post).
Not certain, but it sounds like Happy either died, or came close to it, on the vets table...BUT he came back (she told me that I about cried on the spot until she said "but he came back"! They thought he was gone for a minute.
What it turns out that "bubble" was...was pretty much that. Poor Happy's BLADDER is prolapsed-and not the rectum, intestines, or cloaca. It is now back inside (thanks to Dr. Harris's efforts), and he is on stronger meds-the infection is massive. It could prolapse again, and will be taken care of if it does. I don't know if infection caused this, or if this caused infection..or what. First I've heard of this happening, but apparently it can. In any case he is being well cared for by his human, Shaun.
This is a serious thing...Happy can most definitely use all prayers and well wishes you all care to give. I know he already has ALL of mine. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />
And for Shaun <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />
I'm sure she'll post if I left anything out, or she has more info (since I had just woke up when I spoke to her earlier-I might be forgetting something). We'll also be letting Emch know what was found..he hadn't seen this before either. This is how we all learn.
Last edited by Xfilefan; 06/08/0608:18 PM.
Jen/Colin Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed Sinbad, Gabby, Baby, and Alley
Re:UPDATE: HELP - Problem with privates
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#108105 06/08/0610:07 PM06/08/0610:07 PM
Okay - It's been a LONG coupld of days/nights, and I don't think the end is very soon to be in sight.
Jen is right. Happy did DIE on the table. Dr. Harris said she tried to resuscitate (sp?) him for about 3 min before she came out to tell me, and he didn't come back. So, there I was in the vets office crying because Happy was gone. We were talking about doing a Necropsy (sp?), or at least opening him up to see what was going on. As we were talking (about 3 mins), a nurse came out and told the Dr that she needed her in back right away. I just thought something was wrong with another animal, and as soon as the Dr was out of the room, I totally broke down. All of a sudden, she came running back into the waiting room and said, "you are not going to believe this, but Happy is back". Without even asking, I followed her to the back and saw Happy laying there on his belly, watched it go up and down, up and down, and cried even more. Dr. Harris said she would not have told me he was gone unless she was absolutely sure. They had stopped all life saving efforts before she even came out to talk to me, then he just started breathing on his own! Unbelievable!!!! Like I said, this is why we call him Happy - He is a fighter, but the most gentle fighter I know! I still have to watch him very carefully, and he is not out of the woods, because of the prolapsed bladder. I kind of have to "push" the pee out of him until all the infection is cleared up, but he is here, and he is on better medication, and he is "Happy". I can not thank Jen enough for referring Dr. Harris to me and for being willing to take me and Happy along with her to her vet visit. I will be sending her a PM, but wanted to publicly let you all know what a wonderful lady she is as well! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> Thank you everyone for your hugs and thoughts. I will keep you all updated. "Happy is back!!!" <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/multi.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/multi.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/multi.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/multi.gif" alt="" />
Re:UPDATE: HELP - Problem with privates
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#108106 06/08/0610:18 PM06/08/0610:18 PM
Shaun...I can't say how pleased I am for Happy-he has all my prayers for a full recovery.
And for some reason, when this happens with a glider, it seems to take an unusually long time to bring them back-I don't know why. Happy and my Gim are the only two I know directly where it's been successful...and Gim took a very long time (we about gave up on him twice-thinking "this isn't working"-or worried he'd be brain damaged because it took nearly 5 minutes...amazingly, at least to us, he was fine. Maybe a glider has a better tolerance than a human when something like this happens). Gim lived a long time after dying...so I just pray Happy's infection can be brought under control so he can, too.
All the thanks I need is for that little guy of yours to pull through...nothing else matters. Let me know if you need ANYTHING...you hear?
Jen/Colin Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed Sinbad, Gabby, Baby, and Alley
Re:UPDATE: HELP - Problem with privates
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#108108 06/08/0611:44 PM06/08/0611:44 PM
That's okay...half asleep is adorable, too! Isn't he just the little looker? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" /> What a handsome guy! That's a face you just SO want to give kisses to. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> You let him know we're all pulling for him <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />
Jen/Colin Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed Sinbad, Gabby, Baby, and Alley
Re:UPDATE: HELP - Problem with privates
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#108111 06/09/0602:53 AM06/09/0602:53 AM
What an amazing story, and what an incredible team you all make! I'm keeping this thread handy in case this rare condition occurs in the future for someone else.
Happy just exudes love and contentment. He is, rightfully, happy. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />
Forever owned in my heart by my "Eight is Enough" colony:
I just have to say that tears are streaming down my face after just reading all this and now seeing his picture. Shaun, you have such a beautiful little baby and thank God that he`s still here with you! I will be praying for this sweet little boy that he pulls through this with flying colors. This is such an amazing story, just remember to thank God for this miracle. Please keep us posted!
Re:UPDATE: HELP - Problem with privates
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#108113 06/09/0609:52 AM06/09/0609:52 AM
The prolapsed bladder is not something I would have thought of. I do know it can happen in humans (my poor mother in law) and it is painful for humans. What this little boy has gone through is so sad. He just is an incredible little one! (also gorgous!) What a will to live and love.
Jen.. My Whisper had to be put under anesthsia when she had her mating wound (to have it cleaned the second time) and she died while under anesthsia and had to be revived. From the movie, The Princess Bride. Dead isn't always dead. Sometimes there is only mostly dead.
I'm so glad Happy was only mostly dead! Perhaps he was just saying hello to our friends at the Rainbow Bridge to tell them we haven't forgotten them. Gim must have told him "not yet! Jen and your mommy are not done with you yet"
620-704-9109 Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.
I could have missed the pain But I'd of had to miss the dance
The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re:UPDATE: HELP - Problem with privates
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#108114 06/09/0606:01 PM06/09/0606:01 PM
I've been checking on this thread constantly for the past few days, but I've not said much lately because I've had a really hard time putting my thoughts into words.
I'm SO GLAD that Happy is still alive! I was honestly very worried that he wasn't going to survive once I saw the origional image, but that's not the type of thing you want to say to people, so instead I silently prayed that I was wrong - and I am so pleased that so far I have been!
I am grateful that Shaun took Happy to the vet instead of just letting it go; I am grateful to Jen for helping out in any way she could, and especially her act of determination when it came to getting Happy seen by Dr. Harris ASAP, no matter what; I am grateful to Dr. Harris for being able to operate sucessfully on Happy, and being willing to do so, becasue I know that not every vet would've had either the experience or determination to do so sucessfully; and lastly I am so PROUD of Happy! If he had been unwilling to live through this orderal he never would've been brought back when he did die.
There has been so much effort and determination put into this ordeal, and I know that if at any step along the way someone had said "it's not worth it to me" then Happy wouldn't still be here; THIS is exactly what makes this community special.
I know that Happy's ultimate survival is still not guaranteed, and that the road to recovery going to be very long and uncertain, but this little guy has already beaten the odds once, so I have reason enough to believe that he is going to survive this orderal.
Know that you are ALL in my thoughts and prayers; no matter what Happy's ultimate fate ends up being, I want you to know that I am very proud of all of you. Thank you for all you have done for Happy, and all that you continue to do. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />