Sugar Glider Community Calendar

Please click here to see larger view
Articles
More coming soon!!
Today's Birthdays
Hilloh
Member Spotlight
Ladymagyver
Ladymagyver
SW Missouri
Posts: 4,053
Joined: October 2014
Show All Member Profiles 
Last 10 Posts
Happy Thanksgiving!!!
by Ladymagyver. 11/26/20 08:02 PM
2021 Sugar Glider Calendar and Cafe Press Store
by theresaw. 11/26/20 07:54 PM
Stewie's Shenanigans!
by Ladymagyver. 11/26/20 12:41 AM
Gliders of the Round Table 9
by Ladymagyver. 11/25/20 08:16 PM
Bald Flaps/Patagium
by Ladymagyver. 11/25/20 06:42 PM
Dot has a Lump
by Ladymagyver. 11/25/20 03:25 PM
Brand new to sugar gliders
by Anonymous. 11/25/20 02:46 PM
USDA Breeders in Georgia
by Anonymous. 11/24/20 07:11 PM
Custom Cage Liners Machine Wash & Dry
by gr8pots. 11/24/20 07:58 AM
Happy Birthday Hutch
by Hutch. 11/23/20 12:34 AM
Google+

Facebook
Join Us On Facebook
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Page 2 of 2 1 2
Re: Cons of pellet food [Re: flower09] #1092271
03/29/11 04:15 PM
03/29/11 04:15 PM
Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,269
WI
Glide_Bye_Lily Offline
Glider Guardian
Glide_Bye_Lily  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Apr 2009
Posts: 1,269
WI
Originally Posted By: flower09
JillMarie, thank you, those were all the exact points that I was trying to make.

Allie, that was the reason I brought up this post- so many people give their opinions and state them as facts without doing any research, just listening to what others in the community have already said. Although there is an immense amount of knowledge about glider care in this community, you also can't take everyone's word for everything. What if the facts that they are giving you are just their opinion? Does that make sense?

I think that sometimes we just get a little too focused on who's right and who's wrong and and that keeps us from learning new things that might be better for our gliders - and everyone here is definitely together on that topic- giving our gliders the best life possible! smile


I said it was ok if it was her opinion, and Yes you make sense, but giving out opinions when an individual is totally off base is like saying, "I don't like this, just because." or "I don't like it because I heard from someone else it was bad" You need to have educated yourself and done proper research before you have a valid and educated opinion that other people can learn from.

Like the person that said HPW has only been around since 07-08. That was their opinion about how long the diet has been around. They expressed their opinion and have since been proven wrong it has been around since much longer than that (04? I think). If we just said "ok, that's your opinion about when the diet came out and that's ok because it's your opinion." where would we be? Not learning anything that's for sure.

And no, I have spent many hours researching and listening to opinions, diving into research as to WHY someone believes something over another thing and formulated my own ideas based on hours of education and research. I don't simply copy and paste what other people have said on other websites or articles and call it 'my own' opinion like some people like to do upon occasion.


Maybe I'm off base here. But I like to hear opinions for the sake of actually learning something, not just to hear others speak. wink Don't get me wrong, I like the occasional chit-chat post of random nothings (who doesn't) but when you actually want to learn something, where's the point in that?

Last edited by Glide_Bye_Lily; 03/29/11 04:30 PM.

Allie
Re: Cons of pellet food [Re: Glide_Bye_Lily] #1092285
03/29/11 04:29 PM
03/29/11 04:29 PM

N
NGS
Unregistered
NGS
Unregistered
N



Quote:
Again, PLEASE do more research before stating things as fact. A new glider owner may be confused by members opinions when they are looking for facts.


Totally agree with Allie agree thumb

Re: Cons of pellet food [Re: flower09] #1092327
03/29/11 05:55 PM
03/29/11 05:55 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 513
Vancouver, WA
GliderGuy540 Offline
Glider Lover
GliderGuy540  Offline
Glider Lover

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 513
Vancouver, WA
Wow, as a newbie to the suggie-world I have to say that diet is definitely the hot-spot! crazy

We all want to feel we are doing the best we can for these fuzzies we care so much about, and that is so obvious in this thread which is a really great thing.

I come from a healthcare background and do have some formal education in nutrition. I think that many get caught up in the ratios, and the dos and the don'ts, and lose sight of the goal which is to provide a healthy diet that our gliders will actually eat. This means that yes, heaven forbid, we may have to modify the popular diets to our own situations. As long as a relatively balanced diet is served which incorporates fresh fruits and veges that an e-vet approves of I think we are doing well. Until sufficient research yields more clearcut choices that is the best we can do in my humble opinion. But again, I am definitely a newbie and am here to learn as much as I can from you veterans with insightful hands-on experience, and I do appreciate it!


--==Kevin==--
Suggie-Daddy to Willow, Wicket, and Loki
:grey: :grey: :plat:

Re: Cons of pellet food [Re: ] #1092394
03/29/11 08:23 PM
03/29/11 08:23 PM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,212
Garland, TX
Mel2mdl Offline
Glider Addict
Mel2mdl  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,212
Garland, TX
Originally Posted By: Cory_Ruffing
Secondly I agree with the using pellets (good) for dental reasons. Someone mentioned earlier about plaque on dog and cat teeth that are fed canned food as opposed to pelleted.


Sorry - just want to add that this is a myth. Animals that are fed kibble actually have more plaque buildup than a good wet food. None of my animals have anything but wet or raw food - the cat's dental issues are nearly gone, the dog's haven't had to have a cleaning yet and look great. With kibble, the cat was looking at deep cleaning. Do some actual research away from pet food companies - kibble DOES NOT clean teeth. frown


Molly, son & husband:

Chairman Meow
Oscar & Thomas
Sam, Diego, Delilah, Delia :wfb:
Nevada, Noel
Marcel, Dakota, Latte
Dexter, Didi, Almond, Joy and Fitz
:grey:
Karl,Lenny,Jynxie,Chamille, Kee & Mr. Beans in my heart forever.
Teaching teenagers-part joy, part guerilla warfare! :rbridge:
Re: Cons of pellet food [Re: flower09] #1092547
03/30/11 02:01 AM
03/30/11 02:01 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414
Minneapolis, MN
wildlifeangel Offline
Glider Slave
wildlifeangel  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414
Minneapolis, MN
Okay, some very good points have been brought up... my biggest issue with feeding a pelleted diet is what I know (have heard from reliable sources) about sugar glider anatomy.

When a sugar glider eats, it sucks on the food, sucking the nutrients and good stuff out of it. Then they spit out the residue.. which is why some of us see what looks like oatmeal in the dish in the morning.

My concern is that they would not be eating naturally, and besides all of the concerns already mentioned, it's just not physiologically healthy for them. Now, whether it causes issues in the mouth... I have yet to see anything like that.

I leave monkey biscuits in the cage for my gliders, they eat them if they wake up during the day or before I feed. The monkey biscuits are NOT designed to BE the diet, and the glider has the option to eat them or to ignore them altogether.

off_topic Because of the dental issues mentioned with cats and dogs (and many more reasons)... i recently (a couple days ago) began switching my 2 cats to a home-made diet.


Nadine

Adam-Eve
Starsky-Bianca
Gabriel-Charity
Barrington-Bailey
Travis-Rose-Ruby
Justice-Mercy
Natalia-Carmella-Cayden
Minka-Marco
Reagan-Jocelynn
Donnovin-Selina
Kaluah-Keeko-Emily-Monty-Lexy-Kevin-Raven-Skeeter
:rtmo: :leu: :bb: :cream: :plat:

www.tspsugar.com
Re: Cons of pellet food [Re: Mel2mdl] #1092556
03/30/11 02:20 AM
03/30/11 02:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,748
New Jersey
JillMarie Offline
Serious Glideritis
JillMarie  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,748
New Jersey
Originally Posted By: Mel2mdl
Originally Posted By: Cory_Ruffing
Secondly I agree with the using pellets (good) for dental reasons. Someone mentioned earlier about plaque on dog and cat teeth that are fed canned food as opposed to pelleted.


Sorry - just want to add that this is a myth. Animals that are fed kibble actually have more plaque buildup than a good wet food. None of my animals have anything but wet or raw food - the cat's dental issues are nearly gone, the dog's haven't had to have a cleaning yet and look great. With kibble, the cat was looking at deep cleaning. Do some actual research away from pet food companies - kibble DOES NOT clean teeth. frown


Ah I was waiting for someone to mention this. So true.

Personally I do not recommend pellets for the purpose of cleaning teeth, but more for teeth/gum exercise, if that makes any sense. In my humble opinion, it is good for them to have to go through the motions of crunching and chewing some harder foods.

We forget in the wild that they do rip and tear at tree bark, and crunch down on bugs and baby birds and eggs if they can get them. Some exoskeletons can be quite crunchy.

If given a soft diet all the time, with no other textures, their gums will not be as healthy and thats where dental issues can start. Any dentist will tell you it isnt a good idea to live on soft foods. This is one reason why I dont do the fruit smoothies. I think the texture of the raw fruits and veggies is good for them

Back to the original question, the cons to a pellet diet I see are these:
1. person begins to rely too heavily on the pellet, THINKING they are feeding something nutritionally sound and begin to take short cuts in their dinner.
2. gliders not eating all of it and much gets thrown away.


:grey: Bosom Buddy Creations:grey:
^website link wink

Remember that God Loves You!
Re: Cons of pellet food [Re: flower09] #1092653
03/30/11 09:07 AM
03/30/11 09:07 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 511
Miami, Fl
flower09 Offline OP
Glider Lover
flower09  Offline OP
Glider Lover

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 511
Miami, Fl
Thank you everyone for all your input. I have a better idea of the reasons why some think pellets are bad and I actually realized that alot more people use pellets as a snack or back up then what I thought.


Jenny
Mom to sugar gliders Flower :grey: , Meeko :bb: , Freedom :bb: Skipper :bb: and Ava :rtmo:
as well as 2 dogs, Coco and Macey
seven cats, Chica, Nala, Balls, Belly, Princesa, Kitten little, and OJ
an Amazon parrot, Pancho
and a cockatiel, Pio
Re: Cons of pellet food [Re: flower09] #1092751
03/30/11 12:15 PM
03/30/11 12:15 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 137
FL
J
jimbo Offline
Joey Member
jimbo  Offline
Joey Member
J

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 137
FL
Folks, you might notice I'm not here bashing other people's diets. But when people make statements about "pellets" that are confusing or incorrect as they relate to the SunCoast diet, I think it's important to point out the differences between the different pellet foods.

Just to answer a couple of questions that were posed:

Trigger - we used ZooKeeper's from 1999 up through a diet study in 2006. This food has been widely used in the zoo community for many years. We thought we could improve on the palatability (taste) and tweak some of the nutrient balances more in favor of sugar gliders - if we could get professional help with the formulation (we're not nutritional scientists).

Wholesome Balance is based on the diet study results and experience of the head of nutrition for the St. Louis and Bronx zoos. We've been feeding it since 2007 and made it available to the public in late 2008.

Both the Zookeeper's and Wholesome Balance have animal protein as the primary ingredient, as opposed to wheat, corn, soy, etc. The zoo nutritionists we worked with prefer to use animal protein because in their opinion it contains a better balance of essential amino acids than vegetable protein, and more closely mimics consumption of insects eaten in the wild.

JillMarie - by "zoo-grade", I mean pellets fed by the animal nutritionists whose full time jobs are to make sure the animals in a zoo or other professional habitat are healthy. I think it's highly unlikely these people would use a feeding approach that provides "nothing nutritionally sound" or is "not physiologically healthy", as some said above.

People can have whatever opinions they have, and I'm not a scientist. But when a person with a PhD in animal nutrition, with over 20 years of experience running professional exotic food programs, tells me "this is how I believe sugar gliders are best fed in captivity" I tend to pay attention to that opinion. And the fact a majority of other animal nutrition professionals agree doesn't hurt.

Like I said before, the above doesn't mean any other diet is "bad" and I'm not here bashing other diets. People have fed their pets "home made" diets as substitutes for professional diets for generations. No problem with that.

What I am saying is this: it would be great if people stopped bashing "all pellets" and recognized there is at least one pellet-based diet available that was designed by animal nutrition professionals (not us!) based on their decades of direct experience and the available science.


Jimbo, Webmaster
SunCoast Sugar Gliders
http://www.sugar-gliders.com/
Re: Cons of pellet food [Re: flower09] #1092777
03/30/11 12:56 PM
03/30/11 12:56 PM
Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 529
Rhode Island
FuzzierThanMost Offline
Glider Lover
FuzzierThanMost  Offline
Glider Lover

Joined: Feb 2011
Posts: 529
Rhode Island
I tend to generalize when talking about pellets because when newbies hear "a cheap pelleted diet" they tend to head for the cheapest filler stuff they can find, I too have specialized pellets for when the butts want something to crunch on smile


~Ella~

:grey: Fuzz LightYear
:grey: Fuzzméralda
:grey: The Little Furmaid
:grey: Furora
:grey: Furcules
:grey: Fuzz Charming

Kitties, Faith and KitKat

Doggy, Dingo

And the person who puts up with it all, Christopher<3 <3 <3
Re: Cons of pellet food [Re: flower09] #1092889
03/30/11 05:03 PM
03/30/11 05:03 PM

C
Cory_Ruffing
Unregistered
Cory_Ruffing
Unregistered
C



For the dental issue. It is important to note that when discussing dental diseases or any other disease, you should not look at it case by case. By this I mean that you can't say "my pets get soft food and they don't have plaque build up or dental disease". This may be true but when looking at a large population, you can definitely tell a difference between those fed soft and those fed hard. I have worked in the veterinary field for 10 years now and this is visibly evident. In the wild cats and dogs chew bones, sticks, roughage, etc and by doing this, it cleans their teeth. Sugar gliders chew on trees to produce sap. By bringing them into domesticity, these things are not available to them. Yes a lot of dental disease is genetic, as seen in certain breeds of dogs, but it is also environment based, diet.
I spoke to an of professor of mine who has his PhD in Animal Nutrition and did his dissertation on dog food nutrition at Kansas State. He said that most dog foods these days do have plague preventives in them but it has been proven that a hard food does in fact have a positive effects on plaque build up and dental disease. He told me he could find some definite research on it if I needed it.

I am sorry for going on a rant, but I felt that I needed to defend myself and others who also have stated the same things.

Re: Cons of pellet food [Re: flower09] #1092963
03/30/11 08:26 PM
03/30/11 08:26 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,264
Northeast U.S.
angelic4296 Offline
Glider Addict
angelic4296  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,264
Northeast U.S.
I don't disagree that there's a pellet diet or two that is probably worlds above others, but for me, I still would never ever use a pellet diet as my main diet because of what sugar gliders are built to do.

They have those long teeth to extract sap from trees by tearing away at the bark. They suck on the sap and other foods obviously for that matter to extract the nutrients and liquids and spit the rest out. To me, feeding a pellet diet goes against every instinct a sugar glider has when it comes to feeding. While I am sure that there are foods in the wild that gliders chew like bugs for example, a majority of their food intake involves that sucking behavior and you just can't do that with pellets.

Here in the U.S., I don't believe we're quite there yet with replocating a glider's natural diet in the wild. However, we've tried to make diets that both provide what's needed nutritionally and give gliders the opportunity to do what comes NATURALLY to them - "suck" their food.

I don't care how good a pellet diet is, for me, it just doesn't allow gliders to do what comes natural to them, and for me, if I can provide that opportunity with diet, that's what I'm going to do.


Jess

2 spoiled gliders, Gizzy (6/05) and Ruthie (?/05) <3

Please consider rescuing first!

Please remember to complete your surveys at http://www.sugargroup.org/ - help better the lives of gliders everywhere smile
Page 2 of 2 1 2

Moderated by  Feather, KarenE, Ladymagyver 

Sugar Glider Help Page



Please click above to see how you can help!!

Moon
CURRENT MOON
Who's Online Now
1 registered members (lovekelc), 25 guests, and 277 spiders.
Key: , , Owner, Admin
Newest Members
seryo, Karaxd, Guaglide, sklcarpenter3, BrianT
7178 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums132
Topics10,135
Posts157,874
posts in the last 24hrs0
Members7,178
Most Online2,693
Jan 2nd, 2020
Last 10 New Topics
Happy Thanksgiving!!!
by Ladymagyver. 11/26/20 08:02 PM
Bald Flaps/Patagium
by Little_Miss_Glid. 11/20/20 06:48 PM
Happy Birthday Hutch
by KarenE. 11/20/20 01:31 PM
Stewie's Shenanigans!
by Ladymagyver. 11/19/20 02:48 PM
Fat sugar glider or something else?
by Karaxd. 11/15/20 10:54 PM
Critter Love Help
by meganjoy12. 11/11/20 12:46 PM
Dot has Passed
by Ladymagyver. 11/10/20 04:01 PM
Feather's Birthday!!!!!
by Ladymagyver. 11/08/20 11:32 AM
finally got to try some thing i got during sgga 2020
by mechnut450. 11/01/20 09:35 PM
Underweight gliders
by Cloud. 10/06/20 10:29 PM
Popular Topics(Views)
809,658 TEXAS
644,403 OHIO
451,008 OKLAHOMA
400,205 UTAH
294,418 NORTH CAROLINA
Supported Browser
This site was tested and is best viewed in Google Chrome & Mozilla FireFox



Firefox 3

Download your copy today!!!
Home Forums Links Sitemap Vets Breeders Sounds Contact Us Names Rules & Policies

GliderCENTRAL
©1998-2020
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software
(Release build 20180918)
Page Time: 0.049s Queries: 15 (0.019s) Memory: 1.3593 MB (Peak: 1.5577 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2020-11-27 16:47:55 UTC