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Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1091242
03/27/11 07:23 PM
03/27/11 07:23 PM

S
SuggieMomma
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SuggieMomma
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Yeah no vet/school/study/person/story can connect any dots so I am just going out on a limb here and guessing that it does have millions of strands and any/all or none of these subjective events may be true and I just have to hope with all my might that it's an easy one.

Another odd thing is both brother/sister joeys defiantly have giardia at nine weeks even though they went to completely different states. But.. The parents test negative?!? I don't get that at all!

Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1091246
03/27/11 07:33 PM
03/27/11 07:33 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 310
Northwest Missouri
Chris_R Offline
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Chris_R  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 310
Northwest Missouri
I happen to know ALOT about Giardia, I was part of the research team researching the very virulent Colorado River Basin outbreak....Im also the one that wrote the treatment protocol up for The Sweet Spot...

It depends on the strain ie... how virulent/metronindizole resistant it is and proper cleaning protocol as to how many treatments and how long it will take to treat. Alot of vets are doing the double yammy..Metronindizole for 10 days followed by 3 days of either Strongid or Panacur..

MASHINE WASHING DOES NOT KILL GIARDIA CYSTS!!!! all that does is spread cysts throughout the load off the contaminated material and through subsequent loads...My advice is to BOIL all contaminated material for a full 10 minutes (I have personally seen Giardia cysts still viable at the 8 minute mark)

It is zoonotic...its not species specific by any means, although some species of animals do seem to have higher immunities to be symptomatic. It really effects the young (they are just starting to build an immune system), the old and the infirm...Anything that would be immuno-compromised. You can catch it. Make sure to wash your hands paying special attention to under the nails/nail area for the entire twinkle twinkle little star song anytime you are dealing with contaimated items/animals (No you are not killing the Giardia here, what you are doing is washing anything that stuck to your hands down the drain)...

If the animal/person effected has a sufficient immune system it can keep the numbers of Giardia unmeasurable for months/years before some stessor happens (injury/illness/etc) and the person/animal again becomes symptomatic...

You can get false negative tests anytime you test prior to 21 days AFTER the last day of medicine treatment...and one negative is not considered cured, it takes two negatives to consider "cured" but even then, there sometimes can be a re-occurance later (see paragraph above)

Bleach wont kill most of the resistant strains of Giardia cysts..It takes a combo, boiling water with 1/4 again amount of bleach added to it and then it needs to soak in this solution for 45minutes to 1 hour this is for anything that cant be boiled for the entire 10 minutes

Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: Chris_R] #1091267
03/27/11 08:16 PM
03/27/11 08:16 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,884
Wyoming
tbull Offline
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Then steaming after bleaching and scrubbing doesn't work either? How do you boil a large cage for 10 minutes? If you boil a wheel it will ruin it. This seems impossible. Yet many, many seem to have had a giardia outbreak with full cures.

How many times do I need to get my cages, and especially, the infected joey's parents, tested before I can consider them negative. I am also taking in each other animal in the house for testing, even though they do not have any access to the glider's room.
More samples are going to the lab again tomorrow.

All the cages have tested negative for antigens / ELISA. It has been a week and still not one sign or symptom. No soft poos, no swollen bellies ( except the pregos ) all running and playing as usual. All alittle ticked off that I keep changing their pouches and toys. Not sure my boys can handle much more re-marking their stuff.


T~
www.lovegliders.com

** Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons, for
you are crunchy and taste good with catsup **

*Proud to forever be a Boo-Boo and BJ Fan!*

Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1091361
03/27/11 11:43 PM
03/27/11 11:43 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 310
Northwest Missouri
Chris_R Offline
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Chris_R  Offline
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Posts: 310
Northwest Missouri
Again it depends on the strain of Giardia, how resistant it is.... I actually spray my cages down with a strong bleach solution, then I scrub, spray some more, let it sit, then I steam it....

I deal/have dealt with a lot of nasty parasites (Giardia actually being my fav, yeah, I know Im weird)...We have alot of baylisacaris in my area with all the raccoons I rescue each year, it can be worrisome, as that one likes its coonie hosts and if its another species, tends to get "lost" in the other host and head for the brain, thus killing the host...

Giardia, although sometimes tough to get rid of completely (again depending on what strain it is) is not a "death sentence", nor is it the end of the world, with due dilegence and taking proper steps it is not impossible...

Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1091410
03/28/11 02:41 AM
03/28/11 02:41 AM

S
SuggieMomma
Unregistered
SuggieMomma
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S



There HAS to be something we are missing. If it was really that hard to kill everyone would be infected in the world.

You wash it and it spreads to the family's clothes.. you try to bleach it in your bath tub? Really a waterborne parasite introduced to the family tub? Boil it in the kitchen where you cook in your pan? I am not even going to try that.. it sounds worse more then better...

You cant boil/soak your whole cage in bleach etc.. it almost feels like I am spending all these hours cleaning in vain!

Something easier kills it, or seriously every person/wild-animal/pet/water source would have it.

I'm not disagreeing with anyone I am just trying to figure this out.

I have been washing the cages down so the bleach doesn't get absorbed by dirt.. I add the 4/1 bleach into the drop trays and have a scrubby for each individual cage. I then scrub vigorously with the 4/1 bleach everywhere. Let it sit - This is my attempt to "Soak" as I said I will not put any of this in my kitchen or tub. After it sits I wipe it down with Lysol wipes and then use the cleaning steamer to micro clean and help rinse off the harsher chemicals so the gliders wont further get sick from the bleach or Lysol.

The smaller items I soak in a tub of 4/1 bleach for a couple hours, rinse with the hose and then spray down with the sprayer.

By your response I am not killing anything but time doing all this!

Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1091432
03/28/11 04:55 AM
03/28/11 04:55 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 310
Northwest Missouri
Chris_R Offline
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Chris_R  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 310
Northwest Missouri
Again....it depends on the strain of Giardia, some are very resistant to metronidizole, some are not...

It also depends on the immune system of the host. Immuno suppressed animals/people are the ones we see that are symptomatic..A host with a good immune system battles it constantly, sometimes able to clear it on their own (without the antibiotic to boost the immune up) sometimes enough to just keep the levels low enough to be unmeasureable.

Its the young (immune system building), the old (immune system is tired) and in the infirm (already battling) is where you are going to have the hardest time getting rid of those strains that are resistant to Metronindizole..

We have been using Metronidizole to treat Giardia for 40 plus years or so.. The Giardia strains that have already been subjected to treatment, but not in a sufficient amount/time to kill it all, now has a bit of a resistance to treatment, times that towards 40 years of evolution and you get some strains that are more hardy, more resistant to treatment than others....

Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1091445
03/28/11 07:37 AM
03/28/11 07:37 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 714
Nova Scotia, Canada
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sunjana1 Offline
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 714
Nova Scotia, Canada
Originally Posted By: SuggieMomma
I actually got to see the protozoa under the microscope... totally disgusting.. cysts and octopus looking creepies sooooo nasty!

So it was a positive result.. at least it is easy to treat.



I don't want to discredit your vet, but I'm kind of surprised you say you were able to see the giardia cysts. Even for trained eyes they are very difficult to spot with standard microscopes and are often moving. Did your vet use centrifugation method for the fecal? Did they do a Giardia ELISA test as well? I'm only asking because Giardia is often misdiagnosed.

I also read the vet is only treating with the metronidazole? As was mentioned there is usually a secondary treatment involved - often panacur - as resistance with metro is an issue. When we used it 5+ years ago it was explained to me that it was a symptomatic treatment only, and had little to no effect on the actual giardia. Again, not trying to undermine your vet, but if this isn't a vet that you have a long relationship with and can ask about these things it may be worth having a second opinion and asking them to run the tests I mentioned. I know you are doing the absolute best you can for your babies. hug2

Last edited by sunjana1; 03/28/11 07:39 AM.

Jana
:wfb: - Tim
Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1091494
03/28/11 10:20 AM
03/28/11 10:20 AM

S
SuggieMomma
Unregistered
SuggieMomma
Unregistered
S



I am not allowed to say dosages as per GC rules but she is giving 3 day panacur after the first 10 days of the flagyl we just aren't there yet. And the cysts were not hard to see at all that could be because they told me exactly what to look for.

They did get diarrhea and pot bellies that went away after two days treatment.

That's another thing that's contradictory many are saying it's often missed and underdiagnosed. It is very rare and some very common the giardia and the protiens die before it's sent out for a snap test and missed. It can only be diagnoised by an on the spot slide. I've heard it all!

Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1091503
03/28/11 10:52 AM
03/28/11 10:52 AM

S
SuggieMomma
Unregistered
SuggieMomma
Unregistered
S



I just called 3 other vets for second opinions and they ALL say snap tests are invalid for anything but cats and dogs and the only way to diagnose is under a microscope or for a special glider test sent to the lab, which is pretty much just the lab workers looking under the scope and checking for the protien.

If you do a search on the snap tests you only find laymens posts for gliders as well not medical responses.

Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1091505
03/28/11 11:01 AM
03/28/11 11:01 AM
Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 714
Nova Scotia, Canada
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sunjana1 Offline
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Joined: Jan 2011
Posts: 714
Nova Scotia, Canada
Good to know about the snap tests. I'm going to look into that more and perhaps check with the manufacturer to see why exactly that is.

I didn't mean to imply that with zinc/sulf centrifugation a microscope isn't used. It's simply a different way of preparing the sample - using a 'spinning' method in a special solution rather than letting the sample 'float'.

My information is based on an independent study done through a particular reference lab as well as a study conducted by AAHA. That doesn't make it the most accurate of all the information out there necessarily, just wanted to let you know where I'm coming from. I will say I have never heard argument against zinc/sulf centrifugation for fecals being the most accurate test, particularly for diagnosing giardia. Even my vets who refuse to use this method still agree.


Jana
:wfb: - Tim
Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1091520
03/28/11 11:46 AM
03/28/11 11:46 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,710
Washington
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tjlong Offline
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,710
Washington
Quote:
There HAS to be something we are missing. If it was really that hard to kill everyone would be infected in the world.


Suggiemomma, part of the problem with gliders is that they don't see this in their natural habitat so their systems aren't prepared to combat it like animals and people who have it in their environment. The immune system itself also plays a huge part in how an animal fights it like Chris has been saying. My vet has a great Optiomega formula she puts gliders on who need an immune system boost. If you want to pm me I'll be happy to give you her contact info and maybe you can speak to her about it.

Here is some other info that might be useful. I posted it on the SweetSpot back last year:

I wanted to post that my vet here told me there is a potential new treatment for Giardia. It's name is Alinia. It's generic is Nitazoxanide. It is an antiprotozoal agent.

Nitazoxanide is used to treat diarrhea in adults and children caused by the protozoa Giardia lamblia. Nitazoxanide is also used to treat diarrhea caused by the protozoa Cryptosporidium parvum. These conditions are also sometimes referred to as travelers' diarrhea.

Now, I don't know the dosage but it is another treatment that is being used. I hope this is info people can take to their vet to discuss if the problem arises in your home!

I was also told that a SNAP test done at my vet's office often times only catches the antigen 50% of the time and that samples really should be sent off the a lab for better results when looking for the antigen and not just the actual protozoa.


Regards,
Tracy
(425) 789-7753
Acres of Sugar

:rtmo: Slave to Several Adorable Gliders :wfb:
~~~~~ :cream: :grey: :leu: :bb: ~~~~~
Sugar Glider Genetic Project




Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1091554
03/28/11 01:25 PM
03/28/11 01:25 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 310
Northwest Missouri
Chris_R Offline
Glider Explorer
Chris_R  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 310
Northwest Missouri
Giardia cysts are teeny tiny...and really just looks kinda like lots of air bubbles unless properly focused under the highest setting on the microscopes...One of the many reasons Giardia is often missed and under diagnosed is unless specifically looked for most parasite cysts are found at much lower settings...

There are better tests performed at lab level that takes a lower concentration of the antigens produced by Giardia that the SNAP tests to test but even those are not 100% accurate.

Centrifugal fecal analyses is still the most accurate... The spinning of the matter in a solution helps to seperate the cysts that adhere (think super glue!) to the other fecal matter. This takes a lab tech with a trained eye ..and when your looking at 1500+ slides a day specifically for Giardia, you get pretty darn good at it, if you werent already wink

One of the problems is the size of the samples... glider poo, compared to say cat or dog poo, itty bitty..so there is the issue of alot of solution mixed to a tiny sample and if its a case of a glider low count numbers vs infested, it could be easily missed...The key is to get a larger sampling base...This can be achieved by getting fresh samples multiple times a day for a couple of days prior to the vet appointment, kept in a ziplock bag and refrigerated...

Hope that helps wink

Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: tbull] #1091662
03/28/11 04:33 PM
03/28/11 04:33 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,342
Inman, SC
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Johannasgliders Offline
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Inman, SC
Originally Posted By: tbull
I'm confused. If you can stop yourself from getting it, from washing your hands well with hot water and soap, and your clothes in the washer, why do you have to soak everything else in bleach for 45 minutes?


You stop yourself from reinfection by doing these things. Your glider can't do this. Gliders clean themself and each other, right! When they do this they risk reinfecting themself or the other glider. This is why the hospital cage is for the sick glider and that cage gets soaked. The soaking is to remove all poo. Poo is your enemy! LOL

If you accidently have poo on you from the infected glider you can tranfer it to a clean cage, the bedroom, kitchen, bathroom, etc... Does that help make soaking that cage easier? dunno


"While I Breath, I Hope."

Johanna
Johanna's Gliders and Rescue
Gliders and Designs by Johanna
Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1091919
03/29/11 01:46 AM
03/29/11 01:46 AM

S
SuggieMomma
Unregistered
SuggieMomma
Unregistered
S



Tracy- I'd love for you to give her my contact information.

I've got a good system down now for the cleaning.
My gliders poo is much more normal looking and so far no signs of the family, or other gliders/pets getting it.

Also no signs of adverse affects from the meds.

Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1091928
03/29/11 02:12 AM
03/29/11 02:12 AM

S
SuggieMomma
Unregistered
SuggieMomma
Unregistered
S



Giardia is a waterborne illness from natural water sources, you'd think they'd have more instances of it in their natural habitats. Especially because it is very potent to the humans that visit those areas.

Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1091985
03/29/11 08:25 AM
03/29/11 08:25 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 310
Northwest Missouri
Chris_R Offline
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Chris_R  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 310
Northwest Missouri
They dont drink alot of water in their natural habitat, getting the hydration they need from the food they eat, they are sap suckers afterall

Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1092081
03/29/11 11:49 AM
03/29/11 11:49 AM

S
SuggieMomma
Unregistered
SuggieMomma
Unregistered
S



They still drink from many natural water sources. Sap is dehydrating, and no amount of fruit/protien combo keeps them out of their water dish. Their lifespan in the wild is vey short considering it's potential.




All these comments are getting subjective.. If you are not interested in helping me please don't comment. I'm not here to argue, I just want the best care for them. I'd very much appreciate it.

Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1092083
03/29/11 12:02 PM
03/29/11 12:02 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 913
Casper, Wyoming
sphynxie Offline
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Casper, Wyoming
Did you have your vet call one of the sugar glider consulting vets? I would be interested in what they had to say.


Melonie

:grey: :wfb: :leu: :rtmo: :plat: :cream:

Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1092093
03/29/11 12:22 PM
03/29/11 12:22 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 310
Northwest Missouri
Chris_R Offline
Glider Explorer
Chris_R  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 310
Northwest Missouri
Originally Posted By: SuggieMomma
They still drink from many natural water sources. Sap is dehydrating, and no amount of fruit/protien combo keeps them out of their water dish. Their lifespan in the wild is vey short considering it's potential.




All these comments are getting subjective.. If you are not interested in helping me please don't comment. I'm not here to argue, I just want the best care for them. I'd very much appreciate it.


I am not the one being argumentitive here..... You are the one that asked for someone with experience with Giardia, which I have significant experience with some of those most resistant strains.....With that said....Im out,..... Good luck in finding the answers that YOU want to hear

Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1092094
03/29/11 12:23 PM
03/29/11 12:23 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,742
in my happy place
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sugarlope Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
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S

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,742
in my happy place
off_topic I would wonder how we *know* it isn't in their natural environment. I agree, that I am sure it is. If you think about the wildlife outside our own doors, animals carry parasites. If a captive bred animal is exposed to a wild animal, they will catch parasites from them that make them very, very sick (we've seen people mistakenly put wild flying squirrels with sugar gliders more than once). Just because they may not outwardly appear sick, does not mean they are not carrying something. Even with Giardia, a glider that has it does not necessarily appear sick. You may get some loose stool occasionally (or maybe not) but their behavior, appetite, activity level, etc. does not change.

Back to the subject at hand - I am really glad that all of your gliders are doing well, SuggieMomma. Hopefully this will all be over before you know it. thumb


~Gretchen

If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.
Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1092156
03/29/11 01:52 PM
03/29/11 01:52 PM

S
SuggieMomma
Unregistered
SuggieMomma
Unregistered
S



I am very grateful for your help and am sorry for offending you no harm meant. I do not deny your experience but your approach was from a high horse and not from across the table so to speak. I was confused by the advise (it was more about arguing that my gliders had it or not, the fact that my vet nor I were smarter than you etc.. then helping me rid of it)

Just because I have never dealt with this doesn't mean I am unable to grasp the concepts. I actually have a medical degree and seeing a cyst with 4 nuclei was very clear to me.

This is a parasite that as of yet no one really has the answers too and I don't want to argue the cause/reason I want to gather and destroy. How to destroy it is where I'm putting my efforts.

Thank you for your help I'm sorry I ran you off.

Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1092159
03/29/11 01:55 PM
03/29/11 01:55 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,749
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,749
80 acres of paradise in KS
Quote:
If a captive bred animal is exposed to a wild animal, they will catch parasites from them that make them very, very sick



Gretchen, that is the key that most people tend to forget. Our gliders are many generations captive born. They have not been exposed to many of the "ickies" that wild gliders are exposed to on a daily basis so they never have a chance to build up any resistance to them.

In many ways, we harm our animals and even our human children with the use of all the "anti-bacterial" soaps and hand sanitizers and such. By living in a "bubble" (the sanitizers) we (our animals and children included) never get a chance to build proper immune systems so that when exposed to "foreign" ailments, we are more likely to get sick.

Remember back when the Native Americans were fighting all sorts of "plagues" brought to them from the Europeans (white man). The indians had never been exposed to them so had no natural immunities built up and died by the thousands where the whites had very few deaths from the same things.

As for the giardia and cleaning and such...it MIGHT be a waste of your time but it is the best we can do to try to battle it. The other option (that we know of right now) is to do nothing and we have seen what happens when nothing is done.


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1092173
03/29/11 02:16 PM
03/29/11 02:16 PM

S
SuggieMomma
Unregistered
SuggieMomma
Unregistered
S



That sounds exactly like what I was thinking. My babies have been in a bubble. I think that is also why it spred so fast with the introductions. I can't say I haven't been called a "Neat Freak" more than once!

I cant imagine a natural environment without parasites. At least I have a treatment.. The chance of reinfection or myself or family getting infected doesn't sound fun at all!

Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1092217
03/29/11 03:51 PM
03/29/11 03:51 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,710
Washington
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tjlong Offline
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tjlong  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,710
Washington
Okay, my information regarding Giardia not being in sugar glider's native habitat comes from my vet who has been working on a report that will be included in an upcoming publication. She has told me that it just isn't something sugar gliders are able to combat. With all the questions bouncing around I went online to look for some documentation. There is a publication online which explains that studies have been done in Western Australia and that giardia is a "remarkably rare parasite in native wildlife in Western Australia". This parasite has been studied and some (probably few at this time) people DO know what to do to get rid of it. We are refering to people who KNOW what they are talking about.

My vet is Dr. Cathy Johnson-Delaney. Your vet can contact her if they need dosage and info on the meds I suggested. I know that it isn't an easy thing to get rid of and the cysts can lie dormant for many months and you can get a false negative. I have been told that an 18 month quarantine is not out of the question to be safe before putting other gliders at risk.

Suggiemomma, I know you want the best for your gliders but Chris and several others (myself included) are just trying to give you FACTS and not sugar coat things. You do seem to be trying to justify a simpler solution IMO too. I do wish you and your gliders the best of luck in getting rid of this nasty stuff.


Regards,
Tracy
(425) 789-7753
Acres of Sugar

:rtmo: Slave to Several Adorable Gliders :wfb:
~~~~~ :cream: :grey: :leu: :bb: ~~~~~
Sugar Glider Genetic Project




Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1092373
03/29/11 08:39 PM
03/29/11 08:39 PM

S
SuggieMomma
Unregistered
SuggieMomma
Unregistered
S



Wow.. I do not feel like I am sugar coating this at all! I wish you were here and could see how much work I am putting in. Why would you think that? Because I say I hope for the best?

Not denying your vet but their have been HUGE giardia outbreaks that have made international news in Australia.

I am actually very stressed about it and tired of arguing vets and if they really have it or not. I am very grateful for the support but it has crossed the line into attacking.

NO ONE here and no ones vet is an expert.. It is like saying your an expert on cancer, no one has figured Giardia out.

I just wanted support on how to get it out of my house.

Last edited by SuggieMomma; 03/29/11 08:50 PM.
Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1092408
03/29/11 09:52 PM
03/29/11 09:52 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,710
Washington
T
tjlong Offline
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Joined: Sep 2009
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Washington
Medicalpages.com.au in one report says this, "In Australia, the main route of infection is hand-to-mouth, and the illness is becoming increasingly diagnosed due to changes in socio-economic factors (for example, growing number of toddlers in child care centres and increases in overseas travel to places such as South East Asia and India, where Giardiasis in prevalent)."

Giardia outbreaks in Australia aren't in animals from what I can tell, they are in people. It wasn't ORIGINALLY OCCURING in their environment. They are bringing it back from overseas is my understanding.

My vet IS an authority, she has studied it and she has been writing reference info for other vets. She has written numerous reference documents for the veterinary community. Look her up.

I'm sorry, I wasn't saying you were sugar coating. I said that WE weren't. It had nothing to do with what you said.

You have something with your gliders that Chris has studied and she offered suggestions. I have had great conversations with my vet about the topic and I have offered you her name and location for contact info. Do you really think that there aren't authorities on certain things like Giardia and where and how it existed? Did you try to look up the info I said I found and quoted?

I don't think anyone has said anything to try to offend you. I am sure you are working very hard to keep things clean and to try to get rid of the giardia. If no one here and no one's vet is an expert then why are you asking for help and suggestions?


Regards,
Tracy
(425) 789-7753
Acres of Sugar

:rtmo: Slave to Several Adorable Gliders :wfb:
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Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1092410
03/29/11 09:58 PM
03/29/11 09:58 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
H
hwh4ev Offline
Glider Addict
hwh4ev  Offline
Glider Addict
H

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
suggiemomma,
i think that is what everybody has been trying to do. help
you get rid of this horrid parasite.
it seems like there are different strains of this parasite and that is why it was recommended to find out the strain
your gliders have to get the correct meds. for that particular strain and go from there.
good luck. sounds like a nightmare.

regards,
nancy in detroit


Last edited by hwh4ev; 03/29/11 10:01 PM.

regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)
Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1092476
03/29/11 11:43 PM
03/29/11 11:43 PM

S
SuggieMomma
Unregistered
SuggieMomma
Unregistered
S



I feel like there is a search for recognition here instead of trying to help. No one denied that my vets dosage would work. 10 days of the flagyl followed by 3 days panacur.

We've worked out the dosage, we've worked out that they do actually have giardia. I stated numerous times that I am using everyone's advise and I am very grateful for it.

So why is all this being brought in when I am only asking for cleaning advise from someone who knows what really kills giardia.

Why am I being put in a corner? I am being accused of having a terrible vet, poorly medicating them, being defensive and not taking any of the great advise... If you actually read the thread you will see all this is untrue. I feel like many are just piping in not having read through what was worked out and what wasn't. I didn't ask for an expert I asked for someone experienced in it to help me kill it.

If you look up the history of giardia you will find that it was discovered by the French and the Brittish in the 1800's the same time they were populating australia from brittan an France, and going back and forth by sea. It is a parasite that can evolve itself out of any dirty water in hot or cold areas I do not believe there isn't a strand native to australia.

It's just a difference of opinion. Until it's proven n

Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1092520
03/30/11 01:42 AM
03/30/11 01:42 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 9,173
Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis
Judie  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 9,173
Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
I have had to deal with Giardia which came to me via a baby glider from a very large breeder. Baby had loose stools inside the shipping carrier when I arrived home from the airport.

vet did a fecal float and Dx was Giardia. Since the baby was new he was in isolation. He was treated for two weeks with med and remained in isolation for six weeks.

Introduced to a little healthy female of mine in my glider room after being treated and in isolation for six weeks.

About three weeks later... when I was passing out food dishes I noticed the pair looked sick. Next morning the pair were now both being seen by my vet. Seems the littel boy was now chalk full of giardia and the little girl now was infected to. On top of this problem... all of my other gliders in the room had been exposed to Giardia.

Course of treatment....

Flagyl for 7 days. Off of med for 7 days. Then repeat treatment for a total of three rounds.

Object of 7 days on and 7 days off med for three rounds is... to kill parasite as it goes through it's life cycle of shedding at different times of cysts hatching.

All gliders (thirty-five adults plus babies) were treated 2 X day with Flagyl for a total of 21 days of meds.

Glider room and everything in it was cleaned with a bleach solotion in hot water.

Infected cage with 2 sick gliders were cleaned several times a day as were their bedding, pouch and wheel and toys. Giardia is only transfered by walking or eating something that has Giardia contaminated poo on it.

Water bottles, dishes and toys were cleaned in a bleach solution with a antibacterial soap in very Hot water and rinsed well and air dried daily.

It is not the washing machine that kills the giardia... but rather a Hot Dryer we put the cloth materials in to dry. High Heat kills Giardia. Hot soapy water and a solution of Bleach also kills Giardia. A good High Heat Steam cleaner should work also but I do not have one so not experienced with using one on Giardia.

When do we see Giardia Outbreaks in kittens and puppies and gliders? Usually in warm moist weather or in temperate zones that are warm and moist year round where contaminated poo does not dry out quickly.

Summary: Giardia if treated on the 7 days of Flagyl and 7 days off of med for three rounds is effective for treatment. Hot Water with Soap and a Bleach Solution is effective as to cleaning cages, water bottles, dishes and toys. Hot Dryer is effective in killing Giardia on clothing.

Like any Parasite... if we are able to break the life cycle of Giardia... then we are able to get rid it just like we do with the common Flea.

Hope this gives some insight. It worked for my gliders. I have owed and bred gliders since 1997 and have only had Giardia once and it was a nightmare that I do not want to ever experience again.

Good Luck.

Judie Hausmann


Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1092566
03/30/11 03:38 AM
03/30/11 03:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,748
New Jersey
JillMarie Offline
Serious Glideritis
JillMarie  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,748
New Jersey
I was not commenting on this thread as I dont have any hands on experience with Giardia. But I do want to make a few points.

Gretchen and Dancing make very valid points about the effects of parasites in wild/native animals that are then introduced to our captive ones. I want to add that some wild animals also carry parasites that are actually beneficial to them, or at least naturally occurring, and have no ill effects to the host but then can be quite deadly even to us humans (raccoons for one) so we really cannot compare the possibility of giardia in the native habitat and use that for our pets here at home.

When a friend's dog was thought to have giardia I did a TON of research off the internet to try and help him. His vet said it wasnt a big deal and that he couldnt catch it. I thought WHAT?! So I must have printed out 300 pages on giardia from a number of websites targeting both animals and humans. One point that was mentioned more than once is that giardia may never be cured/eradicated form its host but that it just becomes "controlled" and the host learns to live with it. Stress can then bring on symptoms as we all know the body becomes weaker under stress and is prone to illness. Yet other sites mentioned it can be eradicated fully but does usually need multiple treatments over time. In a cycle.

I bring up these points just to show that SOME vets can be misinformed, just like all the rest of us. We are all given the same info in schools, but some of us are A students and some are D students. Maybe that vet missed that question on his exam? But I also want to point out that while the internet is a good resource for info, it also is not infallible.

This is where gleaning some info from personal experience is nice too. And the members here have a wealth of information to share in the way of experience. Thanks to all that contributed your experience and TIME to post and try to help out. I appreciate it, as I learn from it as well.


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