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Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1092594
03/30/11 07:21 AM
03/30/11 07:21 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,753
Florida
LabNGliderMom Offline
Glider Addict
LabNGliderMom  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 3,753
Florida
Originally Posted By: SuggieMomma
I do not believe there isn't a strand native to australia


No one has said there is no strain native to Australia - what was said was:

Originally Posted By: tjlong
Medicalpages.com.au in one report says this, "In Australia, the main route of infection is hand-to-mouth, and the illness is becoming increasingly diagnosed due to changes in socio-economic factors (for example, growing number of toddlers in child care centres and increases in overseas travel to places such as South East Asia and India, where Giardiasis in prevalent)."

Giardia outbreaks in Australia aren't in animals from what I can tell, they are in people. It wasn't ORIGINALLY OCCURING in their environment. They are bringing it back from overseas is my understanding.


She gave her opinion based on her own research - and she only stated it, she did not try to "force" it on you to agree with or believe her. Please calm down.

Originally Posted By: SuggieMomma
So why is all this being brought in when I am only asking for cleaning advise from someone who knows what really kills giardia.

Why am I being put in a corner? I am being accused of having a terrible vet, poorly medicating them, being defensive and not taking any of the great advise... If you actually read the thread you will see all this is untrue. I feel like many are just piping in not having read through what was worked out and what wasn't. I didn't ask for an expert I asked for someone experienced in it to help me kill it.


The problem is simple -

(1) you asked what kills it - and every time someone tells you what worked for them to kill it, or what their vet recommended to kill it, you get upset if it does not perfectly match what you are doing or what your vet is saying. No one is attacking you - they are all doing their best at answering the question you asked, and you are getting defensive when their answers are not what you want to hear.

(2) We in the online glider community love our gliders - so anything new/different/or involving suggestions/opinions and we all tend to want to jump in with our own story, our own advice, or what we believe/feel/know "for ourselves"... but every time someone tries to share their experiences with you, you seem to be assuming that the person is "cornering and attacking you" when all they are trying to do is either help you with their story or just share it with everyone in general.

I recommend that you do the following:

(1)follow your vet's advice as to how to handle it - they are the trained, educated experts - not us people on Internet forums

(2)if something doesn't work, maybe get a second vet's opinion or get yours to consult with one of the recognized glider consulting vets like Tim Tristan

(3) look to the recommendations and stories shared in this thread as exactly what they are: shared advice and experiences that might help you if you need it or might just be interesting to read if you don't

Basically, don't read more into things than what is there - remember that on forums it is very difficult to truly get the "meaning" behind or "intent" behind some things that are "said". The spoken word provides the listener with tone and inflection cues that typing on the Internet does not - take everything with a grain of salt smile


Julie
Hubby: George
Kids: Ayla & Michael
Grandsons: Trysten, Dayton, KJ & Nathyn
The Zoo: Midnight, Severe & Nala - Claude, Pixie, Tippy & Chili - Scout & Soluna, Theo & Deegie

http://hammockhavenpetsplus.com


Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1092809
03/30/11 02:53 PM
03/30/11 02:53 PM

B
BelladonnasMom
Unregistered
BelladonnasMom
Unregistered
B



It is so EASY to read an emotion that isn't actually there into something that is typed. I am forever jumping down my kid's throats for what I "read" as attitude in a text message, only to have to yank my foot out of my mouth when they get their feelings hurt by ME!

I think we would all do well not to insert attitude, judgement, malice, anger... into what is typed on this forum. For the most part it doesn't happen because we all KNOW it is forbidden on GC. So everybody calm down and be NICE laugh

Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1092856
03/30/11 05:07 PM
03/30/11 05:07 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,884
Wyoming
tbull Offline
Glider Addict
tbull  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,884
Wyoming
For anyone that doesn't know, it was my joey that Suggiemomma adopted. I had tested the joeys before they left. But it was just the office test, which I thought was OK, since there were no symptoms and I have never had a positive test before. :sorry: I was so wrong. The stress of the move brought it out enough to give a positive and get help.
( SuggieMomma's girl's twin brother tested positive first in his new home and his mom was fast on getting the info to me, so I could get it to the other parents to get their joeys tested ASAP. )

BTW: I had 10 joeys all adopted out within a month and all, but these twins have tested negative. grin I am hoping that means we caught it in time. But is a HUGE reminder to always retest your joeys when you get them home, with a lab giardia test, not just the vet office SNAP.

I took samples from all my cages in and they all tested negative. Still did the full "presumed positive" cleaning on all the cages, and quarantined the parent's cage. Waited a week and did another test on all the cages. Below in red is the email I sent out to all the parents that have gotten resent joeys from me.

My PM box is empty and I am FULLY open to any and all hints, tips, and suggestions that anyone that has had giardia ( glider, dog, cat or teenager wink ) in their home has to offer to help make this any easier on me or my suggies.
thanks

I just got back the results on Thunder and Lightning's second fecal test. I got the others back yesterday and all the other cages are negative again. Thunder and Lightning ( the ill joeys parents ) came back today showing 1 cyst. So, they are positive. The mystery is over. Except knowing where the parents got it, but I am not going to worry about that now.

They have been, and will continue to be quarantined. The vet said that the fact that I keep plexi-glass between my cages and clean my tent with Clorox wipes between cages is probably what kept the others from getting it.

He is calling in a RX for the Chicken flavored Flagyl for 7 on, 7 off, for 3 courses and will retest them, and all the others, after that to make sure the others haven't gotten it and that they are clear. Then it will be spot checks for a yr. As of now, we are only treating the infected cage, since the others have had 2 negatives and show no symptoms. Obviously, if ANY signs or symptoms show, everyone will be treated then.

He said that steam cleaning their cage everyday for the whole course of treatment will be necessary, I have plastic carpet runners under their cage ( all my cages actually to protect my carpet ) so I'm hoping I can just take the suggies out, scrub with bleach solution and then steam it where it is, instead of having to haul it into the bathtub and then have to bleach the bathroom everyday.


T~
www.lovegliders.com

** Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons, for
you are crunchy and taste good with catsup **

*Proud to forever be a Boo-Boo and BJ Fan!*

Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1092862
03/30/11 05:23 PM
03/30/11 05:23 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 913
Casper, Wyoming
sphynxie Offline
Glider Guardian
sphynxie  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 913
Casper, Wyoming
I have two joeys from T and they tested negative and she let me know right away. Good luck everyone in getting rid of the Giardia. Blank happens. wink


Melonie

:grey: :wfb: :leu: :rtmo: :plat: :cream:

Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1092868
03/30/11 05:27 PM
03/30/11 05:27 PM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
H
hwh4ev Offline
Glider Addict
hwh4ev  Offline
Glider Addict
H

Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,839
roseville, mi
when you find out the cause will you let me know.
i wonder if your new cat could of brought it in? maybe a carrier, if there is such a thing with this parasite.

you both have my sympathy. what a nightmare.

regards,
nancy in detroit


regards,
nancy in roseville (formerly in detroit)
Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: hwh4ev] #1092874
03/30/11 05:36 PM
03/30/11 05:36 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,884
Wyoming
tbull Offline
Glider Addict
tbull  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,884
Wyoming
Even though none of the other animals have any access to the glider's room, I had all my other animals tested with lab tests and they have all been negative also. dunno We can not figure out how my adults got it, but the vet said they have a very small case ( not his exact words, I was kind of freaked when I got the call ) since I had collected every poo for 2 days, yes, I sat by their cage with gloves and tounge depressors for 2 days, roflmao and they only found 1 cyst. They told him, "they thought, they saw one so held the sample for more intense testing", whatever that means. At least they found it. Chris R is owed a huge thanks for telling me to collect a larger sample over a few days and put them in a ziplock and refrigerate. It may have been missed for another 3 weeks until I retested again.


T~
www.lovegliders.com

** Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons, for
you are crunchy and taste good with catsup **

*Proud to forever be a Boo-Boo and BJ Fan!*

Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1092882
03/30/11 05:45 PM
03/30/11 05:45 PM

S
SuggieMomma
Unregistered
SuggieMomma
Unregistered
S



I just want to say again thank you EVERYONE for being so supportive through this. I think wiping down the tent helps too. It spred here because I was introing the Joey to a glider who is in another cage with another cagemate... And then we are to 4 sick gliders.

Irregaurdless I have bought one tent for each cage. The bleach scrub followed by steam and using colorsafe bleach in the wash seems to be working because it is not spreading. (Signs showed up fast after their intros and this is day six) so I am crossing my fingers that it is somewhat contained. When the other two got sick it was within 12 hours.

As far as kids and other pets if anything gets tummy upsets or any other signs I'd take them in right away too.
I had two of my boys tested because they played with the sick Joey non stop the first week all the way up till we found out she was sick, and their little boys (7 & 9) hygiene is not the first thing on their minds. They both tested negative. That was a fun test let me tell ya! They are not showing any signs but I am watching.

Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1092919
03/30/11 08:06 PM
03/30/11 08:06 PM

S
SuggieMomma
Unregistered
SuggieMomma
Unregistered
S



I have not been nor am I upset at all throughout this whole thing and I HAVE been following everyone's advise. This is why I am baffled that everyone is jumping in with an offensive stance. I ask that everyone please read from the beginning and stop just jumping in and assuming things.

Secondly I think there are two sides to many of these things being brought in to the discussion. I am just stating what I believe, as a discussion.. An opinion unrelated to how the care or treatment is given to the gliders.

I know that I am newer to cg and many of you are just backing up their friends. But please put things into perspective here.

She believes there is no Gairdia in Animals in Australia.
I believe Giardia is Zoonotic and has native strains in Australia.
Throughout this whole topic that is the only thing I have disagreed with.


I also have research and data to back up my theories. Does it make me upset she doesn't have the same belief... Nope... Is it going to chance any part of the cleaning or care for the gliders.. Nope.

Last edited by SuggieMomma; 03/30/11 08:36 PM.
Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1092925
03/30/11 08:38 PM
03/30/11 08:38 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,219
Washington D.C. Metro Area
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
DCMuffin  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,219
Washington D.C. Metro Area
Hey everyone! Let's try to get back on track with this thread. SuggieMomma, you're looking for advice and help. Several members who have had experience with Giardia have given their advice and opinions. Obviously there are differing opinions - that's the beauty of this board, we can all have that.

I suggest that if you have been given advice by your vet that you trust and feel is working, continue to do that. This is turning into a boxing match that clearly isn't going to have a winner so let's stop the argument now and call it a truce. smile

Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1093190
03/31/11 12:14 PM
03/31/11 12:14 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,710
Washington
T
tjlong Offline
Glider Slave
tjlong  Offline
Glider Slave
T

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 1,710
Washington
Quote:

She believes there is no Gairdia in Animals in Australia.


Suggiemomma, all I've been trying to stress is that I don't think our gliders are able to combat giardia as well as some animals because I have been told that giardia just isn't as prevalent in Australia. Do they have it? Yes. But not like we do or at least not the same strains that we see here. I was hoping to suggest you might want to boost their immune system and that is why I brought up. I also was told about that new treatment and posted that info in the hope it might help you.


Regards,
Tracy
(425) 789-7753
Acres of Sugar

:rtmo: Slave to Several Adorable Gliders :wfb:
~~~~~ :cream: :grey: :leu: :bb: ~~~~~
Sugar Glider Genetic Project




Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1093580
04/01/11 01:07 AM
04/01/11 01:07 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,749
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,749
80 acres of paradise in KS
Suggiemomma,

I'm just curious...but did you do the quarantine with your new joey or just go straight to introductions?


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1093840
04/01/11 02:49 PM
04/01/11 02:49 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,742
in my happy place
S
sugarlope Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
sugarlope  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
S

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,742
in my happy place
SuggieMomma, it sounds like things are going well. You are doing a great job. thumb


~Gretchen

If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.
Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1094203
04/02/11 01:37 AM
04/02/11 01:37 AM

S
SuggieMomma
Unregistered
SuggieMomma
Unregistered
S



I quarantined for two weeks. I had gotten joeys from T before and they had three vet visits and two fecals. I only did one intro that happened to be the night before her brother tested positive. She still didn't show any signs for two more days. Her stools were a little soft but nothing out of the ordinary for changing her diet from the ensure diet to hpw.

Just goes to show you, you never know and as I said in an earlier post I am lengthening my quarantine to 6 weeks. I usually do four but i jumped the gun. It was bad I know but the other Joey had been alone for awhile and I had been niave thinking well I've never had issues before not like she is a rescue.... Bad bad idea...

I think the stress of meeting the new Joey is what "activated" the parasite also, so I am just speculating here but I doubt she would have shown signs until she had a little stress either way. (i think her brother showed signs earlier because of the stress of a flight... Again just speculation) After the intro is the only time she showed any signs of having this at all.

I don't know if you guys know this but I talked to my vet today. She told me ALL chinchillas have giardia. Odd fact huh.. Those houses don't bleach/steam everyday.. I wonder how many chinchilla owners unknowingly get sick? What's your take on that?




Last edited by SuggieMomma; 04/02/11 01:49 AM.
Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1094205
04/02/11 01:46 AM
04/02/11 01:46 AM

S
SuggieMomma
Unregistered
SuggieMomma
Unregistered
S



Oh I was gonna update until I saw the question, hehe...

Everyone is doing awesome... All normal poo's
Eating.. drinking .. Loving the extra mealies and yogurt.

I'm very very glad I have you guys and I'm sorry if I was abrasive I didn't mean to be. It has been stressful I hope you can understand.

Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1094212
04/02/11 02:01 AM
04/02/11 02:01 AM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 13,454
South Africa
G
Gizmogirl Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Gizmogirl  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
G

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 13,454
South Africa
hug2 wink


Casper & Liezl
:grey:Gizzy, Boesman, Muchu, Kiamon, Sky & Boog:grey:
A glider's eyes have the power to speak a great language

RIP Sugar 2009 & Kaida 2013
Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1094219
04/02/11 02:25 AM
04/02/11 02:25 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,264
Northeast U.S.
angelic4296 Offline
Glider Addict
angelic4296  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,264
Northeast U.S.
I hope that things continue to get better for you!


Jess

2 spoiled gliders, Gizzy (6/05) and Ruthie (?/05) <3

Please consider rescuing first!

Please remember to complete your surveys at http://www.sugargroup.org/ - help better the lives of gliders everywhere smile
Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: tjlong] #1094241
04/02/11 03:05 AM
04/02/11 03:05 AM

S
SuggieMomma
Unregistered
SuggieMomma
Unregistered
S



- tjlong

Originally Posted By: tjlong


Suggiemomma, all I've been trying to stress is that I don't think our gliders are able to combat giardia as well as some animals because I have been told that giardia just isn't as prevalent in Australia. Do they have it? Yes. But not like we do or at least not the same strains that we see here. I was hoping to suggest you might want to boost their immune system and that is why I brought up. I also was told about that new treatment and posted that info in the hope it might help you.


I fully understand this and I am very much in agreement, as I said my suggies have been in a bubble.. lol.. I really do not know how to boost their immune systems though, I don't want them to get filthy and I don't know of a vitamin.. what do the rest of you do? Do you think a boosted immune system could really prevent a parasite that was "introduced" to a glider? I'd like to think it could so I could prevent any future happenings.
I couldn't have done anything to prevent the initial one because I bought her with it. We are also talking about baby joeys and not adult gliders, so I am not sure what I could have done differently at this point. (aside from too soon intros)

Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1094249
04/02/11 03:35 AM
04/02/11 03:35 AM

S
SuggieMomma
Unregistered
SuggieMomma
Unregistered
S



To Julie - (I tried to pm this but your box was full)

I am not grudging here but I just wanted you to know that I really did feel bullied from you. I am just letting you know so that you can be careful of your posts in the future.

If you read your post on the top of this page you write that my "I do not believe" is unacceptable whilst tjlong's "my understanding" is... it was just an opposing view, we both did research.

The rest after that if you re-read it you will see that it wasn't very nice or valid.

1) Every time someone told me what killed it, I tried it! Believe me, I got it all! I didn't get upset about what anyone said having to match me, the only thing I disagreed with at all was that there was no giardia strands that affect gliders in Australia.. (I do however believe it may be a different strand) I called multiple vets for their input and advise not just mine. If you actually read my posts you'd see that I was very grateful for and using everyone's advise, calling for many opinions etc..

2) I didn't feel cornered or attacked by anyone's experiences.. I felt it from how people handled disagreements. There are ways to handle them without being hurtful...

Perhaps you went a bit overboard?

I have no hard feelings toward you, and I am sorry for my part in this because as I said it has been stressful, and I could have handled things better as well.

Last edited by SuggieMomma; 04/02/11 03:39 AM.
Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: DCMuffin] #1094255
04/02/11 04:00 AM
04/02/11 04:00 AM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 13,454
South Africa
G
Gizmogirl Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Gizmogirl  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
G

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 13,454
South Africa
Aimee has already asked for this thread not to turn into a boxing match.

Originally Posted By: DCMuffin
Hey everyone! Let's try to get back on track with this thread. SuggieMomma, you're looking for advice and help. Several members who have had experience with Giardia have given their advice and opinions. Obviously there are differing opinions - that's the beauty of this board, we can all have that.

I suggest that if you have been given advice by your vet that you trust and feel is working, continue to do that. This is turning into a boxing match that clearly isn't going to have a winner so let's stop the argument now and call it a truce. smile


GliderCentral is an online forum to help educate glider owners. Sometimes it can be hard to tell the manner which someone is typing a post . People will comment, they will have different opinions and they will offer suggestions.

I would like to remind everyone of Rule 4:

Originally Posted By: Rule4
GliderCENTRAL is a family oriented "G" rated board. Be polite, courteous and respectful to other board members at all times. This means illegal substances, illegal activities, flaming, sexually explicit subjects, cursing, spamming, harassing, policing, diet bashing, and abusive or negative personal posts are not allowed. Posts and sometimes entire topics that contain such content will be removed, and the poster(s) may be warned, suspended or banned at the discretion of the board administrators. Abuse, flaming or inappropriate comments directed toward GliderCENTRAL, its Moderators and Administrators, or failure to comply with the direction of a Moderator or Administrator, the poster(s) may be warned, suspended or banned at the discretion of the board administrators. Please keep any personal matters off the board. Take it to email or pm. Please keep in mind that board rules do apply when using the PM feature. Since we are a G rated board, the decision has been made not to allow any web blog links like below due to non G rated material on them.


Casper & Liezl
:grey:Gizzy, Boesman, Muchu, Kiamon, Sky & Boog:grey:
A glider's eyes have the power to speak a great language

RIP Sugar 2009 & Kaida 2013
Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1094326
04/02/11 11:10 AM
04/02/11 11:10 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,749
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,749
80 acres of paradise in KS
Quote:
so I am not sure what I could have done differently at this point.


The only thing different I can see is to have done a proper quarantine. This is why it is advised even when getting a glider from a well respected and experienced breeder/owner. You would not have been able to stop it from the new glider but you could have prevented the spread to your other gliders.

Giardia is nasty and difficult to get rid of. No one is denying that at all. But I want to point out that it is NOT going to happen with all gliders. I have had gliders over 12 years and (knock on wood) I've never had to deal with it here. I also have dogs, horses, birds, an iguana, and (used to have) cats. Not to mention the grandkids running in and out. I use "city" water (or in this case, county water) not bottled water. (biggest source for giardia contamination). I've had over 300 gliders through my home over the years. I KNOW I've been very very lucky.

Sadly it is the risk of bringing home or even just owning gliders that we have to accept.


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1094358
04/02/11 12:49 PM
04/02/11 12:49 PM

S
SuggieMomma
Unregistered
SuggieMomma
Unregistered
S



It's not happening with all my gliders either the one I bought came with it and showed no signs of it. If you had properly quoted me I admitted to the, too early intros. Even if I hadn't the same gliders would have played in tent time the same night.( it was spred through microscopic feces residue in the tent they were in) I've changed that too each cage has their own tent now.
You can't get giardia from tap water.. It is natural water sources and/or extremely filthy living conditions so we are still trying to figure out where the breeders gliders got it.
If it was in tap water it would make international news and we'd all be alerted to boil all our water.
Becareful in thinking your gliders are immune.

I'm very happy you haven't had to deal with this and I hope you never do.

Last edited by SuggieMomma; 04/02/11 12:51 PM.
Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1094362
04/02/11 12:57 PM
04/02/11 12:57 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 913
Casper, Wyoming
sphynxie Offline
Glider Guardian
sphynxie  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 913
Casper, Wyoming
All it takes is one fly, just one infected fly, to come in a poop on the gliders food and there ya go. My cats got giardia once, and it was in the middle of no where, no new animals in, they don't go outside ect, so it can just pop up from a random insect in the house, as flies CAN carry the cysts. Flies sit on and eat poop, so say said fly went out and sat on some infected deer poop then got into the house and sat on the food or even the cage bars that is it.

ETA: Feel free to google or pm for a links that flies can carry Giardia as well.

Last edited by sphynxie; 04/02/11 01:01 PM.

Melonie

:grey: :wfb: :leu: :rtmo: :plat: :cream:

Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1094365
04/02/11 01:30 PM
04/02/11 01:30 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,749
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,749
80 acres of paradise in KS
Yes, giardia CAN be in tap water.

According to the EPA
http://water.epa.gov/action/advisories/d...l_giardiafs.pdf

Quote:
Municipal waste waters likely always contain Giardia cysts. Giardia is distributed
worldwide in lakes, ponds, rivers, and streams.
It is even found in high quality water sources
with no municipal wastewater discharges. All
surface waters probably contain Giardia, and
whether cysts are detected depends largely on
the methods used to collect and analyze water
samples.


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1094368
04/02/11 01:39 PM
04/02/11 01:39 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 913
Casper, Wyoming
sphynxie Offline
Glider Guardian
sphynxie  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 913
Casper, Wyoming
Yes, I wish I could show you the articles I have access to but I can't, federal mumbo jumbo, Giardia is in tap water and they are doing some new things to treat for it, one new thing is UV light steralization, which obviously we can't use to treat pets. There are several studies going on right now on Giardia.

There was one study I read that showed that steaming clams did NOT kill Giardia. There are studies that say bleach does nothing, and studies that show it does. Studies that show that it can be killed by boiling and studies that show it can't. Basically there needs to be a ton of more research done, sadly it is just one of those things we don't understand very well. Can we say master thesis?

I will ask when I go to work what I am allowed to share but my guess is my boss will have no idea, and I would rather be safe then sorry, and don't worry its nothing like horrible facts or miracle cures, I can say that we basically don't know much.

I did ask 4 very smart men that I highly respect and here is what they had to say: They *THINK* that steaming Giardia dissinigrates the outter membrane of Giardia (it has 2) and makes it so that you can then kill it with cleaners. They say that they don't think bleach does the job, and recommend the following cleaning regiment: steam clean with the hottest *highest pressure* steam cleaner you can find. Step two soak with a cleaner that is a quantum ammonium. Repeat steam clean. Clean with Bleach as final step. Repeat. These men all have PHD's and there is one who is a parasite expert, but NOT a giardia Expert. One is mamaologist, but his major area of expertise is bats. I am keeping their names private.

Last edited by sphynxie; 04/02/11 01:44 PM. Reason: added

Melonie

:grey: :wfb: :leu: :rtmo: :plat: :cream:

Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1094385
04/02/11 02:36 PM
04/02/11 02:36 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,884
Wyoming
tbull Offline
Glider Addict
tbull  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,884
Wyoming
Originally Posted By: SuggieMomma
It is natural water sources and/or extremely filthy living conditions so we are still trying to figure out where the breeders gliders got it.


Not trying to start an arguement or anything, but I feel I have the right to jump in here, since I am the breeder. I do not use natural water sources and my glider's cages / room has never been, nor ever will be dirty. I have never had a write up from any of my inspections ( all surprise inspections, so could not be prepared for ). In fact, my inspector is always very impressed with the glider's room and conditions. Since it was one cage out of 10, that showed 1 cyst in two days worth of poo, I do consider myself extremely lucky. Also, very happy that Roxy got her boy from me tested as soon as he got to her, and we were able to catch the infection quickly. We probably will never know how my cage got infected, the male was bred here and his parents are still testing negative. The female I bought from a breeder that has also tested the parents. They are testing negative as well.
Maybe it was a fly, SuggieMomma said it couldn't be, since it is winter, but we had a warm spell and did have a few flies in the house. I didn't notice any in the glider's room, but you never know.

What is important now, is that all the infected gliders are being treated, cages and supplies are being sterilized, and the gliders are getting better. ( Well, mine were never ill or showing signs, so they are just mad at me. upset ) And that we all got a huge wake up call about retesting, and that quarentine means separate toys, tents, pouches, EVERYTHING.

Thank you Mel, for asking your co-workers about ways to rid ourselves of this. I have a new steamer and will be following their recommendations about the steam, clean, bleach, steam again. hug2


T~
www.lovegliders.com

** Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons, for
you are crunchy and taste good with catsup **

*Proud to forever be a Boo-Boo and BJ Fan!*

Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1094390
04/02/11 02:39 PM
04/02/11 02:39 PM

S
SuggieMomma
Unregistered
SuggieMomma
Unregistered
S



Yeah I read all that too. Made me dizzy.. But municipal waste water and tap water are not the same.

I wonder how many suggies die mysteriously from this in our homes then. Mine showed no signs... If they really can get it from tap water. (I would assume it would have to sit awhile to allow the giardia to infest enough) another reason to clean out water scrub it out and give fresh water everyday.

My vet seems to be on that side too... It passes around all the time... Every chinchilla has it... If you go to mexico at all youll get it.. Etc

When I called my water company for info on cleaning they did say bleach is proven to clean it at a 4/1 ratio. And that it's not in our tap water or we'd be on boil alert.. But maybe they have to say that?

Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1094404
04/02/11 02:48 PM
04/02/11 02:48 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,749
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,749
80 acres of paradise in KS
From the same article

Quote:
Reported Giardia levels have ranged
from 10,000 to 100,000 cysts/L in untreated
sewage, 10 to 100 cysts/L in treated sewage,
and 10 or few cysts/L in surface water sources
and tap water. Cysts have also been detected
in cisterns and in wells contaminated by
surface water or sewage.


It only takes ONE viable cyst to infect.


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1094411
04/02/11 02:57 PM
04/02/11 02:57 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,742
in my happy place
S
sugarlope Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
sugarlope  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
S

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,742
in my happy place
Actually, Giardia is found around us all the time. We track it in on our shoes, if you go to a public swimming place, you have likely been exposed, some fruits and vegetables may carry it on their skin. People don't always wash hands after using the restroom, so yep - it can be on door knobs, shopping carts, etc. It is in our environment all of the time. It is a misconception that only water and an unclean environment are sources of infection.


~Gretchen

If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.
Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1094414
04/02/11 03:00 PM
04/02/11 03:00 PM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 913
Casper, Wyoming
sphynxie Offline
Glider Guardian
sphynxie  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 913
Casper, Wyoming
Originally Posted By: SuggieMomma
I am not allowed to say dosages as per GC rules but she is giving 3 day panacur after the first 10 days of the flagyl we just aren't there yet. And the cysts were not hard to see at all that could be because they told me exactly what to look for.

They did get diarrhea and pot bellies that went away after two days treatment.

That's another thing that's contradictory many are saying it's often missed and underdiagnosed. It is very rare and some very common the giardia and the protiens die before it's sent out for a snap test and missed. It can only be diagnoised by an on the spot slide. I've heard it all!



They didn't get any sypmtoms?


Melonie

:grey: :wfb: :leu: :rtmo: :plat: :cream:

Re: Does anyone have experience with Giardia? [Re: ] #1094428
04/02/11 03:09 PM
04/02/11 03:09 PM

S
SuggieMomma
Unregistered
SuggieMomma
Unregistered
S



Mine did yes right away within 12 hours! The girls who initially had it never shown any signs, and they had a severe infestation. I would probably have lost gliders had her brother who went to NC not shown any signs and a positive test. I was very lucky!

I can see where that'd be confusing I forget some don't know my story from the beginning. The infested joeys had no signs. If it wasn't for the other joeys new mom I don't think I'd have figured out what was wrong with mine (the one I introd her too) in time.

Sorry for the confusion hope that cleared it up.

Last edited by SuggieMomma; 04/02/11 03:12 PM.
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