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grapes? #121807
07/19/06 07:14 AM
07/19/06 07:14 AM

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Did anyone get the chance to read the article on grapes from suncoast? I was just wondering what your thoughts were on that. If you didn't read it here is a link. http://www.sugar-gliders.com/glidervet-53.htm You'll have to scroll down to where it says grape controversy. Any input on this would be greatly appreciated! Thanks.

Re: grapes? [Re: ] #121808
07/19/06 08:29 AM
07/19/06 08:29 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 250
Reading to my girls in Florida
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WholeheartMom Offline
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I read that, too. I don't feed grapes often because my suggies don't seem to care much for them (they are P-i-c-k-y) but I personally think moderation is the key.

I just can't see the harm in allowing a grape or two every once in a while. However, I am not a nutritionist nor a vet nor even a sugar glider guru so maybe I am missing something here.

Anyway, I will also be curious as to the responses you get.


I am a homeschool mom to four girls and seven sugar gliders; an annoying ponderer of deep thoughts; a purposeful meanderer on walks and strolls; a prayerful wonderer and marveler; a friend to many small creatures, and an Undercover Agent for the Kingdom which cannot be shaken...Nice to meet you!
Re: grapes? [Re: ] #121809
07/19/06 08:35 AM
07/19/06 08:35 AM

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I got that this morning. I don't feed grapes often, but it's maybe once a week now (until they are gone). Like the newsletter said, there is no direct connection or studies done with grapes and sugar gliders. It still sort of bothers me enough to quit feeding them altogether.
What I was more interested in was the portion on skins and seeds. I feed a lot of things with skin on (pears, apples, etc), and always find a curled piece of fruit skin at the bottom of the cage. As far as seeds, I'd always thought they'd be smart enough not to eat them. Maybe now everyone can quit spending time meticulously de-seeding every piece of fruit or veggie that comes their way.

Grape Controversy [Re: ] #121810
07/19/06 02:03 PM
07/19/06 02:03 PM

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Thanks for the replies. This is a topic I would like to know more about. Does anyone have any more information on grapes? My boys love grapes! I never heard of such a thing before I read this. Thanks again. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Re: Grape Controversy [Re: ] #121811
07/19/06 02:07 PM
07/19/06 02:07 PM

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I too read the Suncoast article. With my girls coming in a couple weeks I think I'd rather be safe than sorry. Grapes will not be on the diet until there is evidence that says they will not harm my babies.

Re: Grape Controversy [Re: ] #121812
07/19/06 02:17 PM
07/19/06 02:17 PM

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I, like aproductof, was more interested in the seeds and peels article. And looking back, my gliders never eat the peels of apples or grapes. I thought they just didn't like the texture or taste of the peels. It's nice to know I don't have to worry about peels and seeds anymore.

As for grapes, I don't feed them that often. And when I do, I always give them a smaller amount of grapes than other fruits (mainly just because they don't eat them all). However, I know that my gliders' previous owner fed grapes a lot. So, I'm thinking that I won't be feeding anymore grapes.

Re: Grape Controversy [Re: ] #121813
07/19/06 10:14 PM
07/19/06 10:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
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Phoenix, AZ
KattyM Offline
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I read the article, too. I don't feed grapes often, but when I do, my babies love them. I trust that Lisa wouldn't post something unless she believed it would truly be in the gliders' best interests, so now I'm a bit concerned. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worried2.gif" alt="" />

I'd like to know more about the exact content of a grape, and what would be the harmful nutrient(s). I know grapes vary, as well (red, green, American, European, Thompson seedless, Concord, etc.), so would any grape be "safe" or would all be risky? Here's the breakdown, for instance, of one seedless grape. Now, ask me what any of those nutrients are. Heh. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" />

I always peel and deseed everything (including the grapes I've fed), and despite the other article, probably still will. I'm just a bit paranoid that washing alone is adequate. And I just wouldn't want to take a chance with them inadvertently wolfing down a seed.


Forever owned in my heart by my :grey: "Eight is Enough" colony:

:rbridge:
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2009: Sammy (F), Charlie (F), Murray (M), Herbie (M)
2010: BJ (M)
Re: Grape Controversy [Re: ] #121814
07/19/06 11:53 PM
07/19/06 11:53 PM
Joined: Sep 2001
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Sycamore Illinois
Karin Offline
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A while back, it was the Globe grape that was causing all the fuss, so I am not sure this is ALL grapes. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" />
Karin


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dance in the rain!"
Re: Grape Controversy [Re: ] #121815
07/19/06 11:59 PM
07/19/06 11:59 PM
Joined: Apr 1999
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Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
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I personally like Lisa, and I think she is being very honest in her article, this is a fear of hers, she as well as the rest of us has seen/or heard of these untimely deaths, looking at her theroy and that is what she called it..she is basing this on the common demoninator, this also is a concern of ours.. but not so much the grapes but again the common demoninators.

This is something that I have been concerned about for some time, but when I did it , it wasn't looking for a single common demoninator but looking at the entire diet as a whole, and also looking at the modifications to those diets from what they were originally and how those modifications could be adversly affecting our gliders.

Charlie is driven in the direction of the calcium, lisa in the direction of the grapes, me who has no direction leading me yet.. I think we need to go back to basics first.

We all would love to find the common demoninator.. but they are as varied as the diets themselves.

That is why I have chosen to take the BML back to basics, without the modifications, that is what all of the diets need to stress.

Lisa herself has the suncoast diet, and also needs to break it down to the basics. that way if the gliders are NOT having problems, then it has to be something that is added. sadly when a variety is offered, it is very hard to pinpoint one item.

another thing I may wish to add, is that the kidneys are usually affected with offering too much proteins. so if people were adding additional proteins to the diet, this also could be factor.

she voiced her concerns, but before you make the decision to remove grapes from your gliders diet, at least look into it as a whole.

let me add something else.. all fruits and veggies can carry the bacterias and giardia, as well as parasites. it is imparative to thoroughly clean them. and there is some graet advice here on how to clean them.. i think peggy srlb posted it but i am not sure.

one thing i have noticed is the globe grapes, I do warn people of them, only because I have heard of purchasing them one night and gliders dying the next several times, but it is a fear of mine, I let people know, and let them decide..

I also heard of cases of fruit out of mexico being tainted..

Like Lisa said, you have urban legends, but more like me with the globe grapes, her with all grapes.. could they have been the globe? who knows..

you will hear many many things said about every food.. that is a fact of life. the hard part is finding the proof to substantiate it.

we all have our theroys.. this is hers.

Re: Grape Controversy [Re: ] #121816
07/20/06 09:16 PM
07/20/06 09:16 PM

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I just read the article myself and I have to say, my babies would be heart broken without their grapes, but I owned a miniature pinscher for about nine years and she LOVED grapes, but I read a lengthy article at one point that was from a reliable source and while they are continuing with the research as Lisa said, the findings to that point led me to stop allowing my dog to eat any grapes. Basically, that article said that even a large, healthy dog could ingest a childs box of raisins and suffer kidney failure. It might not be concrete evidence at this point, but that's pretty scarey. I'm not one of those that freak out at the slightest little thing, but I remember being so shocked by that article and thinking that because my dog was only five pounds, that she could have really been harmed by the grapes she was eating. I dunno, as bad as I hate to deprive my babies of grapes, I think it's best to err on the side of caution. As Bourbon stated, whenever new items are added to a diet, it makes it harder to pinpoint the culprit when something goes wrong. Man, I am SO gonna be in the dog house around here!!!

Re: Grape Controversy [Re: ] #121817
07/20/06 10:31 PM
07/20/06 10:31 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
USA
SugarBlossoms Offline
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USA
I've been thinking (which can be dangerous, lol) Lots of us cut a grape into for our suggies. I cut a few just to see and sure enough (even the so called seedless grapes have seeds) I noticed a couple seeds cut into. If those seeds are toxic in any way, wouldn't we have released that toxin into the pulp of the grape? Just a thought.


Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.
Re: Grape Controversy [Re: ] #121818
07/20/06 10:40 PM
07/20/06 10:40 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,069
u.s.a.
the gliders angel Offline
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u.s.a.
as bourbon once told me last yr to avoid globes i do since then i never took a chance. she told me the bk grapes are the best. i e mailed australia a vet i know there. his oldest glider lived to be 19 yrs. something is wrong in this country as most are not living even past 5. the aussies and i think its the inbreeding of colored gliders which is sad. i personally would only want a grey. i e mailed australia on the grapes and their answer was they feed grapes in season i didnt ask but dont think they have globes there. but they do use alot of brocolli and cucumber as their veggies. also corn. when i told them about the article they said rubbish. so my opinion is a small grape on occasion cant hurt.

Re: Grape Controversy [Re: ] #121819
07/20/06 10:52 PM
07/20/06 10:52 PM

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I have a question...

Globe grapes are those big, round grapes, right? Why are they more dangerous than other grapes?

Thank you!

Re: Grape Controversy [Re: ] #121820
07/20/06 11:02 PM
07/20/06 11:02 PM

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FYI-I had one sugarglider about 4 years ago that used to eat the skins of apples, seeds, etc. His last moments here were very painful and I have a strong suspicion it was asphyxiation. Out of the dozen+ gliders since, I've never had one eat skins or seeds (nor have I had one die of dietary related problems).

I just feel like it's important to make mention of this because the article about grapes, seeds, and apples said it was an urban myth that gliders will eat seeds and skins of apples.

Re: Grape Controversy [Re: ] #121821
07/21/06 08:23 PM
07/21/06 08:23 PM

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Yeah, call me clueless, but like Bethy Sue said, what other kind of grapes are there besides globe grapes, or I guess what do they look like and what are they called?

Re: Grape Controversy [Re: ] #121822
08/05/06 09:42 PM
08/05/06 09:42 PM

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Nothing's been proven yet. She said in her article it was circumstantial evidence

Re: Grape Controversy [Re: ] #121823
08/07/06 06:54 PM
08/07/06 06:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,008
Williamsburg, VA & Whg, WV
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Williamsburg, VA & Whg, WV
Mine LOVE grapes in any color. Everyone gets 1/2 grape every night and it's the first thing they start munching on.


Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming
WOOOO HOOOO, WHAT A RIDE!!!


Re: Grape Controversy [Re: ] #121824
08/07/06 07:03 PM
08/07/06 07:03 PM

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Mine love grapes too (only green grapes,they don't care for red). I also got that article about a week ago and stopped feeding them. Its a shame too because I have a whole bag of grapes in my fridge that I know will go bad because I really don't eat them (Cathoic guilt about throwing away food is a difficult thing to overcome, I guess).

Re: Grape Controversy [Re: ] #121825
08/08/06 08:48 AM
08/08/06 08:48 AM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 3,008
Williamsburg, VA & Whg, WV
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They freeze great Joanne. As soon as I buy them I wash them and then in the freezer they go.
When they're frozen they are sooo easy to cut in half.


Life should not be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up, totally worn out and screaming
WOOOO HOOOO, WHAT A RIDE!!!


Re: Grape Controversy [Re: ] #121826
08/08/06 09:18 AM
08/08/06 09:18 AM

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Thanks Paula, I will do that. I still don't want to take the chance of feeding them to my babies, at least not until I get more info. on the great grape debate.

Re: Grape Controversy [Re: ] #121827
08/08/06 09:50 AM
08/08/06 09:50 AM

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http://www.petinfo4u.com/pet_alerts.htm#Raisin%20Toxicity

This link says that it is the iron in grapes that causes renal (kidney) failure in dogs and softbill birds. Symptoms for dogs are GI distress, vomiting, and a hunched over look. It does say that occasional grapes are OK for dogs though.
I am a believer in moderation. My girls love grapes so i do give them occasionally. I will still feed them until there is proof that grapes are bad for gliders although I got the same newsletter from Suncoast and I appreciate the article. Now I know it's at least something to keep an eye and ear out for.

Re: Grape Controversy [Re: ] #121828
08/14/06 11:20 PM
08/14/06 11:20 PM

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When I got my first suggie a year ago from a pet store I was having a hard time getting him to eat most of the food I had given to him. I would offer him a variety of things to eat but the only thing he seemed to really enjoy was the grapes, so I made sure I gave them to him because he seemed to like them and I didn't want him to starve. 11 days after I got him i noticed one morning that he seemed to be a lil sluggish while I was on my way out to school. Not only that but his poop seemed really runny. When I got back home he was out of his pouch which was unusual because it was only like 4:00. I watched him and noticed he seemed to be drinking an excessive amount of water. I reached in to get him and he didn't crab or anything which was also strange since I had just gotten him. I laid him on the towel and watched him and he started gagging and he threw up. I freaked out so I took him to this pet store. I got him in Miami but I had just moved to Boca and the only place I knew to take him was this pet store that sold sugar gliders. The owner looked at him and said he was severly dehydrated and had diarrhea and to get him on some pedialyte immediately. The guy asked me what I had been feeding him and I told him the only thing he would really eat was the grapes and mealworms. He seemed to think the grapes were the problem and that I shouldnt have been informed to feed him that. I left the pet store immediately and got some pedialyte. I got home in about 15-20 minutes and when I opened the bag, my precious Lucky was dead. I went back to the pet store to confirm it because I was somewhat in denial. I can't say for sure that it was the grapes that killed him, but in less than two weeks of having him he was gone. Now I am terrified to feed another suggie grapes!

Re: Grape Controversy [Re: ] #121829
08/14/06 11:59 PM
08/14/06 11:59 PM

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Oh my goodness, that is terrible. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> Thanks for sharing that story.

Re: Grape Controversy [Re: ] #121830
08/15/06 12:12 AM
08/15/06 12:12 AM

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I used to feed grapes nightly to all my gliders and not once ever had a probelm. They also got alot of other fruits and veggies and their staple diet.
How old was your joey you bought from the pet store. Pet Stores are known to sell way younger joeys around 4-7 weeks oop. Who can't eat, drink, poop all that well on their own.


I wouldn't blame it completely on the grapes. I am sorry for your loss. It is so hard to loose a baby.

<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />

Re: Grape Controversy [Re: RSXTC] #121831
08/15/06 07:47 PM
08/15/06 07:47 PM

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Suncoast newsletter has an update on the grape debate http://www.sugar-gliders.com/glidervet-54.htm

I think I will stand by my "better safe than sorry" motto. Besides, there are so many other fruits my babies love just as much. The article suggests blueberries as an alternative, which I do give them. I think they would miss their peas more than they miss their grapes.

Re: Grape Controversy [Re: ] #121832
08/15/06 09:20 PM
08/15/06 09:20 PM

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The pet store told me he was about 5 months oop. He was pretty big for his age compared to other gliders I had seen.

Re: Grape Controversy [Re: ] #121833
08/15/06 10:45 PM
08/15/06 10:45 PM

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My condolences to you, SuggieAddict. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/upset.gif" alt="" />

I had been using two frozen grapes in their mixed food about 3 times a week. Now, I feed my babies half a grape each every once in a while as a treat. Of course, with the way Rogue gobbles hers down and with Jubilee savoring every lick, Rogue ends up with about half of Jubilee's share, too! (They meticulously eat only the fruit and leave the peel behind, thoughfully stuck between the bars of their cage.)

Re: Grape Controversy [Re: ] #121834
08/15/06 11:54 PM
08/15/06 11:54 PM

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Well here is my thought if I could have the floor a minute. I bet that if we could pick on just about any food at one point or another their has been or will be a problem that arrises from either the foods we eat, or give to our pets.

That said I do feed my gliders red seedless grapes, but rarely. With everything that they eat, it would be like us eating corn or tamatoes and doing an autopsy on us. They would look and the foods that take longer to digest would be found in our stomachs, just like the gliders, depending on how fast the fruits and vegs they eat digest.

So is it just possible that the grape could be just another target? Maybe the peels is lasting longer in their stomach to digest than the other foods they eat?

I understand that we all love our pets, but sometimes if nature had their way and foods were disected we as well as our pets might as well be taking a multivitamin to get the nutrition that we and our pets need, but our pets need food for fuel, and for energy just like a car needs gas to run. That is just my thoughts.

Re: Grape Controversy [Re: ] #121835
08/16/06 12:38 AM
08/16/06 12:38 AM

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Even before this I never really fed my gliders grapes that much. I would feed them occasionally if we were out some where and they needed some hydration. They love all kinds of berries! I think that they are more nutritious for them too. Blueberries have antioxidants in them that help prevent cancer. They are a natural healer. I'm into herbology. lol

Re: Grape Controversy [Re: ] #121836
08/16/06 02:45 PM
08/16/06 02:45 PM

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anymore input. I would love to hear it. Come one come all.

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