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Paying Attention to the Small Signs #1232174
02/24/12 05:46 PM
02/24/12 05:46 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 490
Champaign Co., Illinois
Berg Offline OP
Glider Lover
Berg  Offline OP
Glider Lover

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 490
Champaign Co., Illinois
Yesterday we had an appointment with the vet for a wellness check for our two older gliders. It was about time for one, but was hastened by the fact that Virga had been grooming her pouch more than usual. She has had brown "stuff" around her pouch and we had taken her in for this before. The vet indicated it was a glandular secretion related to hormonal activity, and lab results indicated there as no infection or other problem. During her checkup yesterday we told the vet about Virga's attention to her pouch, so the vet took a swab of the inside of the pouch. To our and the vet's surprise, there was bright red blood on the swab. She (our vet) was concerned about it, but indicated that the blood was likely the result of the swabbing but also said there was some irritation. As she continued the examination, she found two masses near the middle and side of the pouch. She indicted they seemed to be mammary in origin and wanted to examine Virga's pouch and the masses more closely. This required general anesthesia and about an hour to complete, including lab analysis.

She found that Virga's pouch was irritated and inflamed, and she could see one mass through the pouch. The other wasn't easy to see. Our vet suspects the inflammation and masses may be due to mastitis. So, Virga is on an antibiotic (Trimethoprim-sulfa) and an anti-inflammatory (Metacam) for 14 days, and then she goes in to be checked. If the medication doesn't help, then the next step will be to do a biopsy and go from there.

Virga's appetite has been good, her weight has been stable, and she has been her normal active self (she spends a lot of time on the wheel). She doesn't seem to be in any pain. In retrospect, the only other sign that something might be off, other than the grooming, is that Virga has not been her normal enthusiastic self when it comes to coming out for her morning yogurt or afternoon snack. Our vet said other than the pouch issue, she is in very good shape for a 9-year old glider.

The point of all this is that when in doubt, check it out. Virga had no other signs that something might be wrong in terms of activity, appetite, or weight change. MrsBerg, who takes care of snack times for our four, noticed a subtle change in Virga's behavior that on the surface didn't seem that significant. We're glad that nudged us to make the appointment with the vet and are keeping everything crossed that that meds Virga is on do the trick.


-Steve-

:grey: Foehn, CB, Rossby, Sprite, Flurry, and Pascal

gangel Virga 9-10-2012
gangel Cirrus 4-29-2013


The Glider Chronicles blog
Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs [Re: Berg] #1232179
02/24/12 05:55 PM
02/24/12 05:55 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
Tech Admn
GliderNursery  Offline
Tech Admn

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
I hope that the meds work for her! Kudos to MrsBerg for noticing the small stuff! clap


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs [Re: Berg] #1232204
02/24/12 06:56 PM
02/24/12 06:56 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,532
Kentucky
nancy1202 Offline
Glider Addict
nancy1202  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 2,532
Kentucky
Originally Posted By: Berg
So, Virga is on an antibiotic (Trimethoprim-sulfa) and an anti-inflammatory (Metacam) for 14 days, and then she goes in to be checked.
Please double-check with your vet about the 14 day regimen for Metacam. Typically it isn't given for more than 3 days because it can be hard on organs. I don't mean to second-guess your vet, but just to be safe, I would confirm that. It is also a pain medication, and sometimes Torb is used for longer periods. I don't know of a common long-term NSAID for gliders off the top of my head.

I am so glad you and Mrs. Berg noticed the signs! Yep, we need to be vigilant since sometimes the small signs are the only ones we get.


~Nancy~
http://www.derbycitygliders.com

:grey: Jackson/Izzie, Lukas/Leilah, Mizuki/Elektra, Oliver/Ava, Ramon/Paloma, Charming/Snow
Rest of the menagerie: dogs, cats, corn snake, bearded dragon
Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs [Re: Berg] #1232262
02/24/12 10:32 PM
02/24/12 10:32 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,219
Washington D.C. Metro Area
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
DCMuffin  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,219
Washington D.C. Metro Area
I have to agree with Nancy on the Metacam - and that Torb is typically used for longer periods of time.

Aside from that - kudos to both of you, this is what we try to stress SO much for other glider owners. Know your gliders, know their behaviors and routines. Because of your attentiveness, your glider is being taken care of. Doesn't get any better than that.

Please keep us updated on your little girl. hug2

Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs - Update [Re: DCMuffin] #1236987
03/08/12 05:03 PM
03/08/12 05:03 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 490
Champaign Co., Illinois
Berg Offline OP
Glider Lover
Berg  Offline OP
Glider Lover

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 490
Champaign Co., Illinois
Virga had her follow-up visit with our vet today. The good news was that the pouch opening was smaller, but on closer examination the lining was still red and inflamed. And, the two masses were still there. This after two weeks on meds to treat possible mastitis

Rather than going to a biopsy, our vet decided it would be best to do a fine needle aspiration of the masses for a cytology. Prior to Virga going in for the procedure, the vet consulted with a vet surgeon about Virga's case and checked related pathology reports. The surgeon said that if and when there was a biopsy it would be prudent just to remove the masses rather than subject Virga to two surgeries. Prior to putting Virga under our vet called me and said she would like to do a full body x-ray and draw some blood since Virga would already be under. This would save another step if further treatment is needed.

The procedure was supposed to take an hour, but at 2 hours I still hadn't heard anything and was getting worried. I checked at the desk and they told me they had just finished. Turns out the vet had a "hamster emergency" and they got a late start on Virga.

Our vet brought Virga out and sat down with me to explain what she knew at this point. We will have to wait for the x-ray to be read by the radiologist and for the cytology and blood work to be completed before we know anything for sure. She said she did take a look at the x-ray and she didn't see signs of anything spreading, so that was good to hear. On the other hand, the mass on the left side that was not visible through the pouch two weeks ago is now. frown

Our vet said that mammary adenocarcinoma has been reported as the most common mammary cancer in sugar gliders, representing about 4 percent of all cancers in sugar gliders. We should learn the results of the diagnostic testing tomorrow, are keeping our fingers crossed that they are benign.

Interestingly, Virga has shown no signs of illness. She is quite active and spends tons of time on the wheel while the rest are napping in my shirt.

So now we wait. I'll post an update when we hear more.


-Steve-

:grey: Foehn, CB, Rossby, Sprite, Flurry, and Pascal

gangel Virga 9-10-2012
gangel Cirrus 4-29-2013


The Glider Chronicles blog
Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs - Update [Re: Berg] #1236990
03/08/12 05:25 PM
03/08/12 05:25 PM
Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,094
Brooksville, Florida
SugarBattyPatty Offline
Glider Guardian
SugarBattyPatty  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Sep 2011
Posts: 1,094
Brooksville, Florida
Berg, I hope virga wil be OK. I don't know anything about cancer with gliders and Hope I never have to experience it, but I hope this is not the case with you Virga.


SugarBattyPatty
AKA Pat
Mommy to: Sparky :wfb: and Precious :wfb:
Gizmo :wfb:



There is no sin in being ignorant, there is in remaining ignorant.
Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs - Update [Re: Berg] #1237034
03/08/12 07:32 PM
03/08/12 07:32 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,219
Washington D.C. Metro Area
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
DCMuffin  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,219
Washington D.C. Metro Area
Steve - I'm sorry to hear that you're going through this with your little one. Please give her a little kiss from me. I'll be thinking of you.

Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs - Update [Re: Berg] #1237042
03/08/12 07:39 PM
03/08/12 07:39 PM
Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 54
Georgia
MissLady Offline
Out of Pouch
MissLady  Offline
Out of Pouch

Joined: Jan 2012
Posts: 54
Georgia
Oh my goodness! You are such a good glider daddy to be taking care of her so well smile I'll be thinking of her and can't wait for an update, I hope everything will be alright!


:bb: Miss Lady, :bb: Rio, :grey: Pan, :grey: Oliver
Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs -Update 2 [Re: Berg] #1237621
03/09/12 09:50 PM
03/09/12 09:50 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 490
Champaign Co., Illinois
Berg Offline OP
Glider Lover
Berg  Offline OP
Glider Lover

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 490
Champaign Co., Illinois
Our vet called with the result of the diagnostics, and the news was not what we hoped. The cytology showed abnormal cells. She said if we decide to have surgery, she recommended it be done as soon as possible. When Mari (MrsBerg) called me with the news, we both knew our decision without either of us actually saying it. We'll be calling to schedule Virga for surgery at the University of Illinois VetMed hospital first thing on Monday. Our vet said that the surgeon was ready and waiting, and has had experience with surgery on gliders. Besides experience, he also likes working with gliders (in contrast, I guess, to some who don't like dealing with small exotic pets). Our vet has been doing some background research and is going to be contacting another vet who has experience with this type of carcinoma for more information.

There was some good news in all of this. The x-ray confirmed that the suspected cancer has not spread. Virga's blood workup showed her liver was in great shape (this would be the next organ likely to be affected), and that overall she was in great systemic health. She feels that Virga should come through this fine and live out a normal healthy life.


-Steve-

:grey: Foehn, CB, Rossby, Sprite, Flurry, and Pascal

gangel Virga 9-10-2012
gangel Cirrus 4-29-2013


The Glider Chronicles blog
Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs -Update 2 [Re: Berg] #1238493
03/13/12 12:11 AM
03/13/12 12:11 AM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 524
Grand Junction, Colorado
SGQ Offline
Glider Lover
SGQ  Offline
Glider Lover

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 524
Grand Junction, Colorado
I'll keep your Virga in my prayers!
Please keep us updated after the surgery~ I'm curious about the surgery.

What an awesome job y'all did by knowing your gliders. I know most people think I'm nuts when I tell them random things that are normal for my gliders~ but noticing those things makes a huge difference!
In fact~ knowing the little things helped us save my husbands dog about 1 1/2 yrs ago. He's an older dog~ but after his surgery he has been healthier than ever!

You will be in my thoughts! There really is something to be said for catching this sort of thing before its spread!

hug2


~~Chrystal~~
My beautiful pair~

Zinger (aka:Evan) :wfb:
Karma (aka:Ivy) :grey:

:rbridge: Thor 12/24/10
heart Twinkie 11/26/11
Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs -Update 2 [Re: Berg] #1238751
03/13/12 06:24 PM
03/13/12 06:24 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
Tech Admn
GliderNursery  Offline
Tech Admn

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
Again, I'm so glad that you guys paid close enough attention to your glider that you noticed this. It's this type of love and care (and a great surgeon) that will pull her through to her recovery! hug2


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs - Update 3 [Re: Berg] #1238789
03/13/12 07:51 PM
03/13/12 07:51 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 490
Champaign Co., Illinois
Berg Offline OP
Glider Lover
Berg  Offline OP
Glider Lover

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 490
Champaign Co., Illinois
More bad news today.

Mari (MrsBerg) observed Virga's sister, Cirrus, aggressively grooming her pouch yesterday morning during the gliders' morning yogurt time. When she checked Cirrus' pouch she found it raw and irritated around the outside of the pouch from the grooming. Off to the vet we went today. Our vet immediately noticed that her pouch was worse than two weeks ago and wanted a better look. So, off went Cirrus to go under general anesthesia so they could get a closer examination. When our vet came back into the room with a camera we knew the news couldn't be good. The photo showed Cirrus had a growth about the size of a pea on one of her mammary glands. She wanted to do a needle aspiration for a cytology and of course we said go ahead. Well, Mari just got off the phone with our vet. While Cirrus' mass is much smaller than Virga's two, it is definitely cancer (while Virga's may be pre-cancerous). She (the vet) called Dr. Tristan to consult with him, and he said he had never encountered a glider with breast cancer, let alone two. Our vet will be calling other vets she knows with glider experience to see what light they might shed on all of this, but it looks like we could be forging new territory.

Virga is scheduled for surgery Thursday afternoon, and it's very possible her sister may be joining her in the surgical suite.

Our heads are still spinning over the latest news. Our two ladies just turned 9 years old this month (we've had them two years) and they are pretty special to us. Not much of a birthday for them, but hopefully Thursday's outcome will mean more birthdays to come.

Thanks for everyone's good wishes and prayers.


-Steve-

:grey: Foehn, CB, Rossby, Sprite, Flurry, and Pascal

gangel Virga 9-10-2012
gangel Cirrus 4-29-2013


The Glider Chronicles blog
Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs - Update 3 [Re: Berg] #1238906
03/14/12 07:30 AM
03/14/12 07:30 AM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,560
Long Island, NY
yiyo Offline
Serious Glideritis
yiyo  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 7,560
Long Island, NY
hug2 hug2 hug2


Alyssa

"Moving on is a simple thing, what it leaves behind is hard."
Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs - Update 3 [Re: Berg] #1238921
03/14/12 08:03 AM
03/14/12 08:03 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
Tech Admn
GliderNursery  Offline
Tech Admn

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
I'm sorry to hear that. hug2


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs - Update 3 [Re: Berg] #1239517
03/15/12 03:58 PM
03/15/12 03:58 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 240
Illinois
MrsBerg Offline
Glider Explorer
MrsBerg  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 240
Illinois
So, our vet just called re our Ladies surgery. They were awake and alert, and trying to groom their wound, so, first she attempted to put them in the e-jacket, but, Ms. Virga squirmed her way out of it, so they are both in an e-collar, and she gave the a valium type drug to help with their anxiety over the e-collar and pain. The surgeon took Ms. Virga first, and once he removed the masses from her pouch, they made the decision to simply remove the pouch, thus removing all mammary tissue, in the hopes that a reoccurrence is eliminated. I am not quite as up to par on glider physiology, but, they way she explained it is that removing the pouch is not as invasive as spaying would have been, it is just an overlap of skin, so the wound is more like a cut. The risk of infection is minimized this way and healing should be quicker. They will stay the night in intensive care and come home in the morning. Thanks to everyone for the prayers and good wishes. Hopefully, our ladies will help further knowledge of breast cancer in sugar gliders!

Last edited by MrsBerg; 03/15/12 04:00 PM. Reason: grammer

:grey: Foehn :grey: CB

:grey: Rossby :grey: Sprite

gangel Virga 9-10-2012
gangel Cirrus 4-29-2013

The Glider Chronicles blog
gliderchronicles.blogspot.com
Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs - Update 3 [Re: Berg] #1239613
03/15/12 08:00 PM
03/15/12 08:00 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,968
Northeast Indiana
minkasmom Offline
Serious Glideritis
minkasmom  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,968
Northeast Indiana
I'm encouraged to hear that the surgeries went pretty well. hug2 I'm also not the least surprised that Ms. Virga wiggled her way out of the e-jacket....it DOES take a little practice to get it down snug enough. And it seems that the smaller the glider is, the harder it is to make it work the first try.

Do keep us posted on how things go....


Minkasmom (Papillon Kisses)
Slave to:
28 gliders,4 cats,
and ONE husband (can't handle two, lol!)
gangel Remembering all my lost loves cry
Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs - Update 3 [Re: Berg] #1239625
03/15/12 08:15 PM
03/15/12 08:15 PM
Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 360
Southern Illinois
R
rach Offline
Glider Lover
rach  Offline
Glider Lover
R

Joined: Oct 2011
Posts: 360
Southern Illinois
Keep us updated on these lovely ladies I hope that they make it thru and we find out more about gliders and cancer.


Raychell Stayton
My gangel :wfb: Daria :grey: Maddox :rtmo: Nadia :grey: Sampson
Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs - Update 3 [Re: Berg] #1239674
03/15/12 10:04 PM
03/15/12 10:04 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 240
Illinois
MrsBerg Offline
Glider Explorer
MrsBerg  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 240
Illinois
If our ladies behave themselves, they will be home tomorrow late morning. We are anxious to see them, we have sort of convinced ourselves that their wound has to be better than some of the mating wounds we have seen here! Luckily, we have had our grandson here while he is recuperating from his tonsillectomy, so, we have gotten used to tag teaming any sleep we have gotten in the last 2 weeks! LOL Minkasmom, yes, Steven practiced last night and it took three tries, the 3rd try he was so proud of himself, till he gave her to me and I realized she was being so docile because he had her little arms kind of trapped in the jacket and she couldn't move, she looked like a turtle sitting on a rock with no way to get off.! BTW, the vet, 4th yr student, and I were impressed with the leopard skin fashion statement!when we get them home, we will post pictures, and, Steven plans on trying to get the jackets on so that they will be more comfortable. My arthritis makes it impossible for me to maneuver to get them on. Thank you so much for getting them to us so fast. Oh, and I had thought Ms. Virga was missing one of her lumps, but, the vet said it had just moved to combine with the other. We were all amazed at how quickly these tumors were growing, which is the reason for rushing into this surgery.


:grey: Foehn :grey: CB

:grey: Rossby :grey: Sprite

gangel Virga 9-10-2012
gangel Cirrus 4-29-2013

The Glider Chronicles blog
gliderchronicles.blogspot.com
Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs - Update 3 [Re: Berg] #1239714
03/15/12 11:47 PM
03/15/12 11:47 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 524
Grand Junction, Colorado
SGQ Offline
Glider Lover
SGQ  Offline
Glider Lover

Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 524
Grand Junction, Colorado
Wow! I'm glad the surgeries went well! I can't believe how quickly the tumors were growing, its awesome that y'all were so quick about this!

Your babies are in my thoughts and prayers hug2


~~Chrystal~~
My beautiful pair~

Zinger (aka:Evan) :wfb:
Karma (aka:Ivy) :grey:

:rbridge: Thor 12/24/10
heart Twinkie 11/26/11
Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs - Update 3 [Re: Berg] #1239942
03/16/12 05:32 PM
03/16/12 05:32 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,968
Northeast Indiana
minkasmom Offline
Serious Glideritis
minkasmom  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,968
Northeast Indiana
Thank you for the :rofl2: about the turtle comment. It's been a ROUGH day and I needed that so badly!

I wish there was some other configuration that I could come up with that would be as effective and easier on us glider slaves to slip on. If we could make them like the old halter tops...that'd be the IDEAL situation. Hmmmmmmmmm.


Minkasmom (Papillon Kisses)
Slave to:
28 gliders,4 cats,
and ONE husband (can't handle two, lol!)
gangel Remembering all my lost loves cry
Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs - Update 5 [Re: Berg] #1240026
03/16/12 10:59 PM
03/16/12 10:59 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 490
Champaign Co., Illinois
Berg Offline OP
Glider Lover
Berg  Offline OP
Glider Lover

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 490
Champaign Co., Illinois
Well, the ladies are home and seem to be resting comfortably. They were in the ICU last night and from the sounds of it won a lot of the staff's hearts. I picked them up a little after 11am this morning. Their incision sites are a bit swollen, but that's normal. They are in e-collars fashioned out of old x-ray film - sort of the McGyver version. We had one of the snap e-collars we sent with them as well as another e-collar. It fit Virga just fine, but they said Cirrus had it off in two seconds. They are tolerating the collars as well as can be expected. I will probably try to get them in the e-jackets tomorrow and they should be happier. We tried hand feeding them tonight, and they weren't too interested in food. However, when we offered them mealworms, then we had two very interested gliders. smile

Mari (MrsBerg) described the surgery in her post yesterday, but basically they removed the mammary glands along with the tumors, and then performed a "pouch ablation" to minimize the potential for residual mammary tissue being left behind and for abnormal cell growth to reoccur. The removed tissue was sent for histopathology and will take seven to ten days to get the results. That will be about the time we go back for their follow-up appointment.

It's been a crazy ten days. We're keeping our fingers crossed that in another ten days things will be back to normal and the four gliders will be back together again.


-Steve-

:grey: Foehn, CB, Rossby, Sprite, Flurry, and Pascal

gangel Virga 9-10-2012
gangel Cirrus 4-29-2013


The Glider Chronicles blog
Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs - Update 5 [Re: Berg] #1240074
03/17/12 07:34 AM
03/17/12 07:34 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,219
Washington D.C. Metro Area
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
DCMuffin  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,219
Washington D.C. Metro Area
Well, things certainly sound positive, Steve. Great news that the girls seem to be resting comfortably. They've been in my thoughts here and I'm wishing them all the best!

Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs - Update 5 [Re: Berg] #1240084
03/17/12 08:16 AM
03/17/12 08:16 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
Tech Admn
GliderNursery  Offline
Tech Admn

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
Glad they are home for you two to love on some more! Hope all continues to go well with them.

Thank you so much for sharing this difficult situation with all of us. hug2


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs - Update 6 [Re: rach] #1242017
03/22/12 06:43 PM
03/22/12 06:43 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 490
Champaign Co., Illinois
Berg Offline OP
Glider Lover
Berg  Offline OP
Glider Lover

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 490
Champaign Co., Illinois
It's been one week since Virga and Cirrus had their surgery to remove their tumors. They are doing very well and are looking forward to getting rid of their e-collars! smile The incisions are healing well. They have been active at night and are getting tired of their hospital cage. When we walk into the room they come to the front of the cage and want to be taken out. Last night we brought them into my office (where we let our gliders play) and they were able to run around a little and explore. We are restricting their jumping and access to the wheel until after their follow-up appointment on Monday, but they did enjoy their free time! Tonight is their last dose of medication and they will be happy about that.

We did get an email from our vet today with the results of the histopathology. Both gliders had adenocarcinomas of the affected mammary tissue. She indicated that Cirrus' might have been more aggressive and may have some lymphatic involvement. So, our saga may not be quite over yet. worried We'll find out more on Monday.


-Steve-

:grey: Foehn, CB, Rossby, Sprite, Flurry, and Pascal

gangel Virga 9-10-2012
gangel Cirrus 4-29-2013


The Glider Chronicles blog
Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs - Update 6 [Re: Berg] #1242022
03/22/12 07:22 PM
03/22/12 07:22 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
Tech Admn
GliderNursery  Offline
Tech Admn

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
Glad to hear they are doing well. Hope the news you get on Monday is good news, hopefully the saga is over.


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs - Update 6 [Re: Berg] #1242212
03/23/12 11:44 AM
03/23/12 11:44 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 240
Illinois
MrsBerg Offline
Glider Explorer
MrsBerg  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 240
Illinois
Well, we almost learned a difficult lesson last night! Ms. Virga was running with such pure reckless abandon, you could almost hear her screaming, "I'm free". Ms. Cirrus was a bit more laid back, and we were trying to get her a little more interested in moving around, and laughing at Ms. Virga's obvious pleasure. She was like the pig that's saying, "Weeee" in those commercials. Then, she started climbing the "tree" and jumping onto Berg's back. He didn't think it was such a bad distance, but, I have been a bit paranoid and was concerned. After a few more jumps, and lots more running, we caught her "grooming" her incision. When I picked her up, she had gotten the last remaining glue off, but, in so doing, opened the incision a bit and was bleeding just a little. Obviously, the e-collars the vet had made were a bit too flexible and a bit too short, but, it wasn't until we let her have her freedom that she went after anything. So, off to the kitchen I went to remake new e-collars. Found that large yoplait yogurt container lids with the rims cut off, make excellent e-collars. As an added "guard", we put 3M Nexcare tape all around the "rim", so that if they should try to get at their incision, or each other, it was cushioned. They were/are very unhappy with us! We then discovered that they could still groom each other, which they could do before, but never did in excess, so, we decided, rather than aggravate them more by removing their e-collars and making shot glass ones (besides, I had used up all the mole skin), we would separate them at night. Cirrus was obviously upset with us. She refused to eat, tho she did eat some of her apple sauce while we slept, and just glared sadly at us. Ms. Virga found that she could scoop her dinner into her collar and eat from it. We have been weighing their food every night so that we could see how much they were eating. Ms. Virga is doing fine, but, it is hard to get Ms. Cirrus to eat, even though it is the glider crack we have been feeding. A call to the vet and we were told to keep them on the sedative/pain relief meds and no more freedom! But, as long as the incision was not oozing, it was best we just leave it until their appointment on Monday. We are learning so many lessons with this whole affair. We found e-collars easier than we thought to put on, just as difficult to watch them fight to get off, and the ladies just don't want to give up! We also learned last night that limited movement, as advised by the vet, is NOT letting them feel "free"...


:grey: Foehn :grey: CB

:grey: Rossby :grey: Sprite

gangel Virga 9-10-2012
gangel Cirrus 4-29-2013

The Glider Chronicles blog
gliderchronicles.blogspot.com
Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs - Update 6 [Re: Berg] #1242222
03/23/12 12:03 PM
03/23/12 12:03 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,968
Northeast Indiana
minkasmom Offline
Serious Glideritis
minkasmom  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,968
Northeast Indiana
Ah yes, the fun of having gliders needing to stay away from something! upset They find a way...ANY way...to get those e-collars off. I heard this morning from a creative little sprite in Anderson (IN) who figured out she could move her e-collar around to where her back feet could reach the tape tab at the top & pop it loose! shock Her mommy heard her doing a "wheeeee" freedom frenzy like you described, but didn't think much of it.....until this morning when she discovered that HER wound site was completely clean of ANY scabs (I would've swooned/fainted if it had been MY little girl that did that...we're not 100% convinced that she's not going to move into the category of being an SMer or not). She didn't do ANY damage to herself, just had an OCD cleaning-fest :rofl2: Sheesh! Don't our skin-kids give us enough gray hairs without our fuzz-kids adding to it??? REALLY???


Minkasmom (Papillon Kisses)
Slave to:
28 gliders,4 cats,
and ONE husband (can't handle two, lol!)
gangel Remembering all my lost loves cry
Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs [Re: GliderNursery] #1243129
03/26/12 08:00 PM
03/26/12 08:00 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 490
Champaign Co., Illinois
Berg Offline OP
Glider Lover
Berg  Offline OP
Glider Lover

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 490
Champaign Co., Illinois
Today was the follow-up appointment with our vet for Virga and Cirrus. The incisions are healing well and the ladies were freed of their e-collars before we left. :yes: They both have lost weight the last ten days, about 8 grams each. Now that they will be able to eat more easily we expect their weight to recover. Cirrus immediately started 30 minutes of cleaning every part of her body she could not reach while wearing the collar. smile

We met the two surgeons who did the surgery on Virga and Cirrus, and our vet discussed the histopathology with us. As I related in the last update, there was some not so good news. Cirrus' cancer was more aggressive and there was evidence it had spread into the lymphatic system. As far as that is concerned all we can do at this point is wait and see. Both gliders have another follow-up appointment in a month.

Our vet asked if we would mind if they published a case study of the ladies' diagnosis and treatment, and of course we immediately agreed. This would be published in one of the veterinary journals. Hopefully what Virga and Cirrus have gone through will benefit other gliders in the future.

We have one last hurdle to jump before life is back to normal around here. Even though they have been separated only 10 days, it looks like we will have to go through re-introducing Virga and Cirrus to CB and Foehn. Last night we brought Cirrus and Virga into the playroom in their small cage while Foehn and CB were running around. Foehn climbed up on the cage with Virga on the other side, and there was much crabbing and consternation. My hope is now that Virga and Cirrus are free of the collars and will be back in a normal routine this will go quickly.

Thanks for everyone's good wishes and prayers as we went though this.


-Steve-

:grey: Foehn, CB, Rossby, Sprite, Flurry, and Pascal

gangel Virga 9-10-2012
gangel Cirrus 4-29-2013


The Glider Chronicles blog
Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs [Re: Berg] #1243136
03/26/12 08:11 PM
03/26/12 08:11 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,219
Washington D.C. Metro Area
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
DCMuffin  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,219
Washington D.C. Metro Area
This is mostly great news, Steve - I'm so glad to hear the girls are free and able to get back to being gliders. smile I expect that the introductions will go smoothly. The crabbing is very normal, as I'm sure you know, they have lots of odd smells on them from the last week and a half but I expect that they'll be happily chirping soon.

Thank you so much for all your updates. My thoughts are with you all every day. hug2

Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs [Re: Berg] #1243137
03/26/12 08:12 PM
03/26/12 08:12 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
Tech Admn
GliderNursery  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2007
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North Central Ohio
I hope the next vet visit is a good one! Keeping my fingers crossed for her.

That is great that the vets are going to write up a case study. It's always unfortunate that someone's gliders have to go through something so terrible, but knowing it will help many out in the future is something to make you smile.

You have some pretty special girls there! Give em' an extra treat tonight. smile


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs [Re: Berg] #1243140
03/26/12 08:14 PM
03/26/12 08:14 PM
Joined: Dec 2010
Posts: 524
Grand Junction, Colorado
SGQ Offline
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SGQ  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2010
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Grand Junction, Colorado
Aww you guys are amazing!
hug2

Hopefully they will calm down after a bit? I know after Twinkie got neutered he had a particular hospital smell to him~ so maybe with all that's going on +medication the girls scent is off?

Sending good thoughts and prayers for your girls! hug2


~~Chrystal~~
My beautiful pair~

Zinger (aka:Evan) :wfb:
Karma (aka:Ivy) :grey:

:rbridge: Thor 12/24/10
heart Twinkie 11/26/11
Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs [Re: Berg] #1243144
03/26/12 08:19 PM
03/26/12 08:19 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 240
Illinois
MrsBerg Offline
Glider Explorer
MrsBerg  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 240
Illinois
They will be getting the best treat possible, all their favorite fruits and vegetables! They have enjoyed getting their mealworms (plus all the extra), with Berg and I being their "hands", I am sure they will be elated to finally get to hold them, as well as their food, with their own two hands tonight!!!


:grey: Foehn :grey: CB

:grey: Rossby :grey: Sprite

gangel Virga 9-10-2012
gangel Cirrus 4-29-2013

The Glider Chronicles blog
gliderchronicles.blogspot.com
Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs [Re: Berg] #1243150
03/26/12 08:25 PM
03/26/12 08:25 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,219
Washington D.C. Metro Area
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
DCMuffin  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,219
Washington D.C. Metro Area
Mrs. Berg - thank you, you just made my heart grow about 10 sizes. smile We would absolutely LOVE a picture or two of these two beautiful girls when they're ready for a photo shoot. I think I can speak for both myself and many others here when I say that we'd LOVE to see their sweet faces. smile

Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs [Re: Berg] #1243408
03/27/12 07:03 PM
03/27/12 07:03 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 240
Illinois
MrsBerg Offline
Glider Explorer
MrsBerg  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 240
Illinois
Aimie, Steven tried to get pictures last night, after reading your post. Virga was only a little cooperative, Cirrus went and hid behind our CPU, to groom in private, FOREVER! Steven is a perfectionist, so, hopefully we will get a good one sometime soon... Our latest concern is that neither one seems too interested in food. All those favorite foods, and very little was eaten! Tonight I try Darcy's diet. Neither one can afford much more weight loss, but, Cirrus most especially....


:grey: Foehn :grey: CB

:grey: Rossby :grey: Sprite

gangel Virga 9-10-2012
gangel Cirrus 4-29-2013

The Glider Chronicles blog
gliderchronicles.blogspot.com
Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs [Re: Berg] #1243416
03/27/12 07:36 PM
03/27/12 07:36 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 13,748
Vincennes, IN, USA
suggiemom1980 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
suggiemom1980  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 13,748
Vincennes, IN, USA
I just found this thread and have read from the beginning, holding my breath, crying, smiling, sighing in relief and always, being so proud of mom and dad for being so observant and getting their girls treatment.

I'll be following this thread closely and sending lots of prayers and best wishes!


Connie

812-890-9734, 24/7 Emergencies/Joey issues

SmallWorldSuggies

"The greater the challenge, the sweeter the reward"

"Glide free :rbridge: Silly "Ozball" Ozzie. You left us 11/21/12..way too soon. You're forever loved, remembered, missed."
Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs [Re: Berg] #1243431
03/27/12 08:22 PM
03/27/12 08:22 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,219
Washington D.C. Metro Area
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
DCMuffin  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,219
Washington D.C. Metro Area
Mrs. Berg - I'm going to assume that the girls have been on antibiotic and pain meds? If so, it will knock down their appetites. This could be part of it.

What are they eating and how much?

Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs [Re: Berg] #1243447
03/27/12 08:57 PM
03/27/12 08:57 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 240
Illinois
MrsBerg Offline
Glider Explorer
MrsBerg  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 240
Illinois
Aimie, They haven't been on either in 2 1/2 days, but, yes, I imagine the residue is still in their systems. Thank you, that makes me feel a little better.... They ate a few pieces of cantaloupe but not much blended mix or bok choy, their favorite. I am just worried about Cirrus. She is so small to begin with... I don't think they will eat the "protein" part of the darcy's diet. I tried to feed them glider crack while they were e-collared, Steven cooked fresh chicken for the canned, "we don't feed canned meat to our gliders" but, I think it might not have pureed enough, and they just weren't interested. Tonight, I am going to try a T of papaya, 1 T of bok choy, 1 T of blended mix and 1 T of ensure and see if they eat it. They just licked up about 1/2 teas. of the Ensure, so, I think they like it. If not, I know they love Kiefer, so, I will push that... Thank you for posting. I should have known the antibiotic would kill their appetite! They don't eat it all mixed up, and Tbull told me to do the ensure separate, but, if they won't eat it that way, I will try mixing it with the blended mix.. Oh, and they have greedily been eating meal worms, 6 each, their usual treat... And 1/2 tablespoon of yogurt...


:grey: Foehn :grey: CB

:grey: Rossby :grey: Sprite

gangel Virga 9-10-2012
gangel Cirrus 4-29-2013

The Glider Chronicles blog
gliderchronicles.blogspot.com
Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs [Re: Berg] #1243556
03/28/12 11:12 AM
03/28/12 11:12 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,746
Wisconsin
Feather Offline
Administrator
Feather  Offline
Administrator

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,746
Wisconsin
Do they like plain avocado? That would be good to feed them right now.

Good thoughts and prayers.


Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Mister Peanut & Big Mack
Fur-Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Cho, Toothless, Maverick & Maharet :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ, Light Fury, Madison & T'Pring :rtmo:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker, Khayman and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:

Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs [Re: DCMuffin] #1244053
03/29/12 10:14 PM
03/29/12 10:14 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 490
Champaign Co., Illinois
Berg Offline OP
Glider Lover
Berg  Offline OP
Glider Lover

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 490
Champaign Co., Illinois
Virga and Cirrus are starting to eat better and put some weight back on. We are weighing them every day to make sure the weight gain continues. They are still separated from Foehn and CB, but we are going to switch cages tonight and try and reintroduce them tomorrow.

Anyway, here is a photo I took of the ladies this evening as they were coming out for some play time. As I write Virga is on the wheel running at her usual speed. Cirrus is off in a corner beautifying herself. smile Virga is on top, and Cirrus is on the bottom.



There are some more photos of them during their week of recovery on my blog. It's been hard to get a good photo of them the last few days because as soon as they are awake they want to go!


-Steve-

:grey: Foehn, CB, Rossby, Sprite, Flurry, and Pascal

gangel Virga 9-10-2012
gangel Cirrus 4-29-2013


The Glider Chronicles blog
Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs [Re: Berg] #1244149
03/30/12 09:41 AM
03/30/12 09:41 AM
Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 225
Georgia
C
CathyMetcalf Offline
Glider Explorer
CathyMetcalf  Offline
Glider Explorer
C

Joined: Dec 2011
Posts: 225
Georgia
awwww they look so sweet smile

Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs [Re: Berg] #1244370
03/31/12 08:12 AM
03/31/12 08:12 AM
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 513
Vancouver, WA
GliderGuy540 Offline
Glider Lover
GliderGuy540  Offline
Glider Lover

Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 513
Vancouver, WA
Aw sweet girls! Thanks for sharing the plight of these two and I hope they continue to do well. :ghug:


--==Kevin==--
Suggie-Daddy to Willow, Wicket, and Loki
:grey: :grey: :plat:

Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs [Re: Berg] #1244371
03/31/12 08:18 AM
03/31/12 08:18 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,219
Washington D.C. Metro Area
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
DCMuffin  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,219
Washington D.C. Metro Area
Originally Posted By: Berg
Virga and Cirrus are starting to eat better and put some weight back on. We are weighing them every day to make sure the weight gain continues. They are still separated from Foehn and CB, but we are going to switch cages tonight and try and reintroduce them tomorrow.

Anyway, here is a photo I took of the ladies this evening as they were coming out for some play time. As I write Virga is on the wheel running at her usual speed. Cirrus is off in a corner beautifying herself. smile Virga is on top, and Cirrus is on the bottom.



There are some more photos of them during their week of recovery on my blog. It's been hard to get a good photo of them the last few days because as soon as they are awake they want to go!

And there they are! mlove Such sweet little girls, look at those faces! Thank you, Steve - I just want to kiss on their little noses. smile

Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs [Re: Berg] #1244375
03/31/12 09:22 AM
03/31/12 09:22 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 240
Illinois
MrsBerg Offline
Glider Explorer
MrsBerg  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 240
Illinois
It seems so funny to me that you all are saying how sweet they are! They are, after all, middle aged and like to think they are Queen Elizabeth type dignified! They are independent little women, I think because of the cats where they previously lived. We will keep you informed on their progress. For now, as Aimie knows, our struggle is to get the 4 of them to accept each other again. Actually, it's only 3. CB, our neutered male, doesn't care who comes out on top, just wants them to quit disturbing his sleep! This am, I could not agree with him more! LOL


:grey: Foehn :grey: CB

:grey: Rossby :grey: Sprite

gangel Virga 9-10-2012
gangel Cirrus 4-29-2013

The Glider Chronicles blog
gliderchronicles.blogspot.com
Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs [Re: Berg] #1244380
03/31/12 09:30 AM
03/31/12 09:30 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,219
Washington D.C. Metro Area
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
DCMuffin  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,219
Washington D.C. Metro Area
Maybe you could have a chat with CB - alone, away from the others, and ask him if he could PLEASE control his women and ask them to please just get along. He sounds like a reasonable man, I bet he'd listen. :roflmao:

Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs [Re: Berg] #1244402
03/31/12 11:02 AM
03/31/12 11:02 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 240
Illinois
MrsBerg Offline
Glider Explorer
MrsBerg  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 240
Illinois
Poor CB, I think Virga has driven him insane! When there was only himself and his sister, he was so happy being as equal as he wanted, then, we brought the ladies in, and the poor guy is just overwhelmed! It is very comical when they go in heat... Each a week or so apart. He doesn't care. And, when he is unresponsive, and you catch him at it, he gives you a look that says, "please, take me away, I don't want to be here!" But, Aimie, shame, we are now off topic! LOL


:grey: Foehn :grey: CB

:grey: Rossby :grey: Sprite

gangel Virga 9-10-2012
gangel Cirrus 4-29-2013

The Glider Chronicles blog
gliderchronicles.blogspot.com
Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs [Re: Berg] #1245358
04/04/12 01:08 AM
04/04/12 01:08 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,742
in my happy place
S
sugarlope Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
sugarlope  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
S

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,742
in my happy place
hug2 hug2 hug2 This is amazing, I'm so glad they are doing so well. They will get back together, they can't just make things easy...that's not the glider way! :rofl2:


~Gretchen

If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.
Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs [Re: sugarlope] #1245586
04/04/12 06:33 PM
04/04/12 06:33 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 490
Champaign Co., Illinois
Berg Offline OP
Glider Lover
Berg  Offline OP
Glider Lover

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 490
Champaign Co., Illinois
After a long Saturday night (stayed up most of the night listening to them crab and chase each other, and making sure they were OK), all four were sound asleep in the same pouch Sunday morning! :yes: They just had to work things out amongst themselves. We can officially declare our glider situation "back to normal"!


-Steve-

:grey: Foehn, CB, Rossby, Sprite, Flurry, and Pascal

gangel Virga 9-10-2012
gangel Cirrus 4-29-2013


The Glider Chronicles blog
Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs [Re: Berg] #1245615
04/04/12 08:12 PM
04/04/12 08:12 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,968
Northeast Indiana
minkasmom Offline
Serious Glideritis
minkasmom  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,968
Northeast Indiana
:hdance: :lshower: :yes: mlove Need I say anything else? "back to normal" sounds like a very wonderful place.


Minkasmom (Papillon Kisses)
Slave to:
28 gliders,4 cats,
and ONE husband (can't handle two, lol!)
gangel Remembering all my lost loves cry
Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs [Re: Berg] #1245634
04/04/12 09:05 PM
04/04/12 09:05 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
Tech Admn
GliderNursery  Offline
Tech Admn

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
:yes:


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs [Re: Berg] #1245645
04/04/12 09:43 PM
04/04/12 09:43 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,219
Washington D.C. Metro Area
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
DCMuffin  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,219
Washington D.C. Metro Area
Well FINALLY!!!!! Didn't I SAY that everything would be fie? Well??? Didn't I? :rofl2:

Congrats to ALL of you! mlove

Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs [Re: DCMuffin] #1245653
04/04/12 09:58 PM
04/04/12 09:58 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 490
Champaign Co., Illinois
Berg Offline OP
Glider Lover
Berg  Offline OP
Glider Lover

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 490
Champaign Co., Illinois
Yes, Aimee, you did! grin It was hard to listen and watch them work it out by themselves, but they did. And we all survived!


-Steve-

:grey: Foehn, CB, Rossby, Sprite, Flurry, and Pascal

gangel Virga 9-10-2012
gangel Cirrus 4-29-2013


The Glider Chronicles blog
Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs [Re: Berg] #1245656
04/04/12 10:04 PM
04/04/12 10:04 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,219
Washington D.C. Metro Area
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
DCMuffin  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,219
Washington D.C. Metro Area
clap I'm just so happy - you need to stop giving me these stories because each time I read them, my heart grows. Pretty soon, it's just gonna bust right outta me! LOL

Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs [Re: Berg] #1272021
07/06/12 11:44 PM
07/06/12 11:44 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 490
Champaign Co., Illinois
Berg Offline OP
Glider Lover
Berg  Offline OP
Glider Lover

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 490
Champaign Co., Illinois
The ladies just had their four month post-operative check-up yesterday. Good news is that they have both regained their pre-operative form (Cirrus 88 grams, Virga 91 grams). The disheartening news is that a few days before their appointment MrsBerg noticed a small nodule on Virga's abdomen. (She gives them a good once-over every morning after yogurt). The vet wanted to do an x-ray, ultrasound, and needle aspiration to cover bases in light of Virga's history, and we of course said yes!

After it was all done the vet came out and brought us back to the examining room to show us the x-rays and ultrasound. She had several concerns, but cautioned us that the x-rays and ultrasound had yet to be seen by the radiologist. The nodule was subcutaneous, right below the skin, and to her it didn't feel like it was the type of lump to be concerned about, but it would today before the pathology report was available. What was more troubling was two spots on her liver evident in the ultrasound, which may be just cell regeneration, and some clouding evident on the x-ray in Virga's lungs. Worst case is these might mean her cancer has metastasized.

Our vet called tonight, but we were gone at the time. She left a message that she wanted to discuss the cytology report with us, and will call us on Monday. However, the message was disheartening for what it didn't say. If the pathology was negative, I assume she would have said so on the phone. I don't know...

On top of it all, for about the last week Virga has been having some sort of spasm or tremors when she wakes up in the pouch. As she's having one she makes an noise similar to the noise they make if they are annoyed with each other. The first couple of time we heard that's what we thought it was until MrsBerg saw her do it. The strange thing about it is it stops as soon as she is out of the pouch, and we have never heard it at any other time of day. This one has all of us, including the vet, stumped.

Monday can't come soon enough.


-Steve-

:grey: Foehn, CB, Rossby, Sprite, Flurry, and Pascal

gangel Virga 9-10-2012
gangel Cirrus 4-29-2013


The Glider Chronicles blog
Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs [Re: Berg] #1272073
07/07/12 09:00 AM
07/07/12 09:00 AM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,219
Washington D.C. Metro Area
DCMuffin Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
DCMuffin  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 28,219
Washington D.C. Metro Area
Oh Steve...I'm sorry to hear you're having to worry about this again with little Virga. Let's hope it's nothing/something simple and that the vet just wants to go over everything with you at one time.

As always, I'm thinking of all of you. hug2

Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs [Re: Berg] #1272326
07/07/12 11:52 PM
07/07/12 11:52 PM
Joined: May 2012
Posts: 366
NY, USA
Lunalove Offline
Glider Lover
Lunalove  Offline
Glider Lover

Joined: May 2012
Posts: 366
NY, USA
Oh gosh Steve I am so sorry to have to read this news and I hope and pray for your little one and hope Monday brings you some relief. hug2. and here is a lil angel to watch over her angel


:bb: Luna :grey: Phoebe
:rtmo: Draco :wfb: Elledora
:leu: WMO Gwendalyn :wfb: Riddle


Tricia, fuzzbutt slave and lovin it!
Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs [Re: Berg] #1272741
07/09/12 05:42 PM
07/09/12 05:42 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 13,748
Vincennes, IN, USA
suggiemom1980 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
suggiemom1980  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 13,748
Vincennes, IN, USA
I'm praying for any updates today. Praying so hard for good news! Worried that there hasn't been an update yet. frown


Connie

812-890-9734, 24/7 Emergencies/Joey issues

SmallWorldSuggies

"The greater the challenge, the sweeter the reward"

"Glide free :rbridge: Silly "Ozball" Ozzie. You left us 11/21/12..way too soon. You're forever loved, remembered, missed."
Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs [Re: Berg] #1272979
07/10/12 08:56 AM
07/10/12 08:56 AM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 240
Illinois
MrsBerg Offline
Glider Explorer
MrsBerg  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 240
Illinois
We just had a call from our vet, concerning Virga's mass. Sadly, it appears to be another mammary tumor. They are not sure what the spots on her lungs and liver are, and would like to do a cat scan. Because the surgeon and radiologist are so interested in our Ladies, the scan would be paid for by research grants. Having heard that, we have agreed to have a cat scan done on Virga, and Cirrus. They want to use Cirrus as a "control" subject, which will further add to any information they can obtain. I asked the vet how Virga could have gotten another mammary tumor since the surgery before was to remove all mammary tissue and she said that based on all the information available to them, they were sure they had removed all mammary tissue. But, that it could be that gliders have tissue like rodents, that is, that it extends to the back. The one thing that worries us is that she may need to inject a contrast through a catheter, she says that because they are so small (thank God they have packed on grahams since the surgery), that may be difficult to do. She is going to try to schedule it for tomorrow or early next week. Thank you all for keeping our ladies in your thoughts and prayers and hopefully, they will help improve chances for other glider ladies.


:grey: Foehn :grey: CB

:grey: Rossby :grey: Sprite

gangel Virga 9-10-2012
gangel Cirrus 4-29-2013

The Glider Chronicles blog
gliderchronicles.blogspot.com
Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs [Re: Berg] #1273021
07/10/12 10:55 AM
07/10/12 10:55 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 13,748
Vincennes, IN, USA
suggiemom1980 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
suggiemom1980  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 13,748
Vincennes, IN, USA
Sending many prayers and best wishes. I hope your next update is full of happy news!


Connie

812-890-9734, 24/7 Emergencies/Joey issues

SmallWorldSuggies

"The greater the challenge, the sweeter the reward"

"Glide free :rbridge: Silly "Ozball" Ozzie. You left us 11/21/12..way too soon. You're forever loved, remembered, missed."
Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs [Re: Berg] #1273100
07/10/12 05:19 PM
07/10/12 05:19 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
Tech Admn
GliderNursery  Offline
Tech Admn

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
I'm sorry to hear this, but I am happy that they are continuing testing to try to learn more and cure your girls. It's great they have a grant to pay for these tests. smile

Keeping you and your girls in my thoughts! hug2


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs [Re: Berg] #1275618
07/19/12 10:55 PM
07/19/12 10:55 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 240
Illinois
MrsBerg Offline
Glider Explorer
MrsBerg  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 240
Illinois
Virga and Cirrus had their Ct scan today. I think the staff at the vet med hospital have fallen in love with our Ladies. The vet took me into the examining room, started to hold back tears, hugged me and said that Virga's lungs are worse than she had suspected. The cancer has more or less taken over. It has affected her metabolism, she is not in pain, but, because they did have to add a contrasting dye into her leg bone, now she is a bit of discomfort. She and Cirrus are on pain meds until that is no longer an issue. I asked how long they thought she would have any quality of life and she said 2-3 months, because the cancer is such a fast growing one. Cirrus, who was also scanned as a "control" also seems to have some cancer in her lungs, but, not to the extent that Virga does. This was immediately after the scan, and the radiologist wanted to do some further work on the image to try and get a better idea of exactly what we are dealing with. While it was something we suspected, it was tough having it confirmed. They were able to get a tremendous amount of information from the CT scan, so, at least the Ladies are helping to further educate the vet world ... Dr. Whittington will be meeting with the oncologist and they will be looking into any oral chemo drug and any other meds that may give Virga a quality of life for a longer period of time and maybe put Cirrus in remission. However, she was very careful to inform us that chemo in animals is more for quality of life, and if it goes into remission, that's a bonus. We were concerned that Virga has been over grooming her tummy, she is now bald. But, she does not seem to be doing anything in the way of self mutilating, so she was not concerned with that. Another concern is that Virga has been having body tremors that occur while she is in her pouch, then stop as soon as she gets out. They seemed to be diminishing this week, but, tonight she had the longest one we have seen in the last two weeks. No explanation as to what is causing this. Sorry this is so long, I tend to go on more so than Steven.


:grey: Foehn :grey: CB

:grey: Rossby :grey: Sprite

gangel Virga 9-10-2012
gangel Cirrus 4-29-2013

The Glider Chronicles blog
gliderchronicles.blogspot.com
Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs [Re: Berg] #1275699
07/20/12 08:16 AM
07/20/12 08:16 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,746
Wisconsin
Feather Offline
Administrator
Feather  Offline
Administrator

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,746
Wisconsin
I am sorry to hear this.

Sending you out prayers and good thoughts.


Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Mister Peanut & Big Mack
Fur-Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Cho, Toothless, Maverick & Maharet :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ, Light Fury, Madison & T'Pring :rtmo:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker, Khayman and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:

Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs [Re: Berg] #1275761
07/20/12 11:16 AM
07/20/12 11:16 AM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,968
Northeast Indiana
minkasmom Offline
Serious Glideritis
minkasmom  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,968
Northeast Indiana
OMG, my heart is hurting right now to read this! cry cry It's very difficult to be in your situation, and I don't envy either of you ONE IOTA. Being on the leading edge of new research is unnerving to say the LEAST, but for the benefit of others to follow in your footsteps, you lead the way & we thank you & the girls for that. hug2 hug2

I hope you have my cell phone number still, feel free to "unload" if you're compelled....I always have a box of Kleenex and a willing ear to lend for a friend. You are BOTH friends of mine, even though we only met once! thumb


Minkasmom (Papillon Kisses)
Slave to:
28 gliders,4 cats,
and ONE husband (can't handle two, lol!)
gangel Remembering all my lost loves cry
Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs [Re: minkasmom] #1275898
07/20/12 07:29 PM
07/20/12 07:29 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
Tech Admn
GliderNursery  Offline
Tech Admn

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
I'm so sorry, I was hoping for better news for you.
Originally Posted By: minkasmom
Being on the leading edge of new research is unnerving to say the LEAST, but for the benefit of others to follow in your footsteps, you lead the way & we thank you & the girls for that. hug2 hug2

Very well said! hug2


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs [Re: Berg] #1275933
07/20/12 09:01 PM
07/20/12 09:01 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 13,748
Vincennes, IN, USA
suggiemom1980 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
suggiemom1980  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 13,748
Vincennes, IN, USA
I am so very sorry to hear this news. God bless you for helping pave the way for future medical advancements for other gliders.

I volunteer my phone number too, any time you need or want to call and talk or cry.

I so admire you both so much and your little ladies.


Connie

812-890-9734, 24/7 Emergencies/Joey issues

SmallWorldSuggies

"The greater the challenge, the sweeter the reward"

"Glide free :rbridge: Silly "Ozball" Ozzie. You left us 11/21/12..way too soon. You're forever loved, remembered, missed."
Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs - Update [Re: Berg] #1287173
09/05/12 12:04 PM
09/05/12 12:04 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 490
Champaign Co., Illinois
Berg Offline OP
Glider Lover
Berg  Offline OP
Glider Lover

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 490
Champaign Co., Illinois
Yesterday was another checkup for Virga and Cirrus, and it was good timing. Over the last week or so Virga had seemed to be slowing down, and ashe had been overgrooming her tummy again to the point where there was little fur. The tremors upon waking had subsided some, but in the last several days the frequency had increased. On the other hand, she is still enthusiastic about her mealworms, and spends lots of time on the wheel during playtime (she loves the wheel), although she hasn't been running with the same intensity and duration she used to run with.

Our vet confirmed our worst fears - Virga's condition is declining. The tumors have grown some, and her general condition is worse than a month ago. Although her weight has been fairly stable, she is losing body mass and fat. It's difficult to determine if and how much discomfort she might be in, although her grooming signals that she knows something is not right. So at this point it appears to be a matter of time. She is on Metacam to reduce inflammation and discomfort, but this is only going to be temporary we know. I was not ready to say goodbye yesterday and I don't think Virga was either. However, we know that sometime soon we are going to have to make the difficult call for her final visit to the vet. It will be hard...very hard.

Cirrus, on the other hand, appears to be just fine, and that's good news. She and Virga are really bonded,as you might expect, and even though she will have CB and Foehn it will be tough on her. Even CB and Foehn have seemed to be more protective of Virga recently, so they all are sensing that something is going on.

After their exam we returned them to their pouch while we waited for meds and the reports (we also brought our son's glider in for her wellness check). Virga snuggled into the bottom of the pouch to sleep, and Cirrus crawled on top of her, draping her arm over her sister as if she was protecting her, and they both slept until we got home.



-Steve-

:grey: Foehn, CB, Rossby, Sprite, Flurry, and Pascal

gangel Virga 9-10-2012
gangel Cirrus 4-29-2013


The Glider Chronicles blog
Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs - Update [Re: Berg] #1287192
09/05/12 01:41 PM
09/05/12 01:41 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
Tech Admn
GliderNursery  Offline
Tech Admn

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
I'm so sorry to hear this about Virga. hug2 I know you guys love her and spoil her, and will make her as comfortable as you can. She knows she is well loved! My heart goes out to you for when you have to make that final vet visit.


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs - Update [Re: Berg] #1288132
09/09/12 12:41 AM
09/09/12 12:41 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,264
Northeast U.S.
angelic4296 Offline
Glider Addict
angelic4296  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,264
Northeast U.S.
I haven't posted much, but I've been following this post. So sorry to hear of this recent situation; you two are among THE BEST glider parents I've ever seen in this community - loving, observant, attentive, sweet, and patient. I can't think of many others who are better suited to have these little animals in their lives than the both of you.

Know that my prayers are with all of you, and that I'm heartbroken each time I read a new update. We're all here crying with you both.

Give the babies a kiss from me and my clan, please smile


Jess

2 spoiled gliders, Gizzy (6/05) and Ruthie (?/05) <3

Please consider rescuing first!

Please remember to complete your surveys at http://www.sugargroup.org/ - help better the lives of gliders everywhere smile
Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs - Update [Re: Berg] #1288269
09/09/12 03:31 PM
09/09/12 03:31 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,742
in my happy place
S
sugarlope Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
sugarlope  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
S

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,742
in my happy place
I am just so sorry for all of you. They are well loved and know it so completely. hug2


~Gretchen

If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.
Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs [Re: Berg] #1299327
10/21/12 08:19 PM
10/21/12 08:19 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 78
Wyoming(ten Sleep) USA
Myst369 Offline
Out of Pouch
Myst369  Offline
Out of Pouch

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 78
Wyoming(ten Sleep) USA
SO SO Sorry to hear this. I lost my first glider(19yrs ago)To cancer. They have made such great strides medically since then in their treatment.Good for you to catch this....I hope all works out for your babies, you sound like great parents!!!!! Mom of Stitch, Ayla, Dani, Valkerie, Cloudy, Starman, Autumn and August and joey Indy.

Last edited by Myst369; 10/21/12 08:21 PM.

To handle yourself, use your head. To handle animals and others, use your heart.Mom to - :cream: Autumn, :grey: Cloudy, Starman, Ayla, Stitch, :wt: Dani mosaic, :grey: 100% cream het August, Valkyre, and joey Indy.
Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs [Re: Berg] #1299329
10/21/12 08:30 PM
10/21/12 08:30 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 240
Illinois
MrsBerg Offline
Glider Explorer
MrsBerg  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 240
Illinois
Thank you, Myst. We had to let Virga go in September, about a week after Berg's last post. It was very heart breaking and hard on all of us. There was a lot of tears in the room that day. We still have hopes that Cirrus will stay with us awhile longer as it seems her cancer has not grown as fast as Virga's did. It was amazing to see just how fast Virga's cancer grew. We did have a necropsy done, and she had had cancer in every inch of her body, far worse than any of us suspected! It has been a learning experience for all of us, but, we are comforted in the knowledge that the two of them are contributing to the knowledge vets have of cancer in gliders.


:grey: Foehn :grey: CB

:grey: Rossby :grey: Sprite

gangel Virga 9-10-2012
gangel Cirrus 4-29-2013

The Glider Chronicles blog
gliderchronicles.blogspot.com
Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs [Re: MrsBerg] #1299354
10/21/12 10:42 PM
10/21/12 10:42 PM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,114
MI
Sweet As Suggies Offline
Glider Guardian
Sweet As Suggies  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 1,114
MI
I am so sorry to hear of your loss upset It is never easy losing an animal, but it's great to hear of loving owners who are right by their little ones side until the end.

I do have a question for you though if you don't mind answering. Since both of your little gliders who are siblings have cancer, does the vet have a reason why they have cancer? Does it run in glider families like it can in humans?


Alicia

:cream: :bb: :plat: :wt: :leu: :wfb:

Naaya & Halo, Solari & Casper, Naphtali & Polar, Twilight & Cherish
Re: Paying Attention to the Small Signs [Re: Berg] #1303466
11/11/12 06:58 PM
11/11/12 06:58 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 240
Illinois
MrsBerg Offline
Glider Explorer
MrsBerg  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 240
Illinois
Alicia, we were ou of town for awhile and my computer doesn't always work right. I just saw your question. Yes, their original thought was that there is something genetic that brought it about. That is still their thought. As to why Virga's spread so quickly, we believe hers had metastasized prior to her original surgery, and it seemed to be a much faster growth than Cirrus's. Cirrus also showed signs of cancer in her liver, and possibly her lungs, but, she is doing great. We do not know their family history as they were rehomed to us. We know they were bought from a breeder, can't remember the name off hand, but, they were not in bred. They are still using Ms. Virga for research, so, we don't know all the info that they are gleaning from all this.


:grey: Foehn :grey: CB

:grey: Rossby :grey: Sprite

gangel Virga 9-10-2012
gangel Cirrus 4-29-2013

The Glider Chronicles blog
gliderchronicles.blogspot.com
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