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Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1240434
03/18/12 12:17 PM
03/18/12 12:17 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,832
Big Sandy TN
Sherri Offline
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Sherri  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,832
Big Sandy TN
I don't understand what all the fuss is about? All Peggy did was take Wombaroo and replicate it and added a couple of other ingredients to make it her own.

This is no different than what Walmart does with their "Equate" brand of replicated products.


sherri

Forever home to a wide variety of animals, domestic, farm and exotic.
My passion is my little suggie sweethearts! 731-441-9814


http://www.newbysglidernook.com/index.html
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1240436
03/18/12 12:20 PM
03/18/12 12:20 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,749
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,749
80 acres of paradise in KS
But Peggy did NOT replicate it. She used synthetic ingredients that are inferior to the Wambaroo ingredients.

They are very different products. Peggy's may or may not prove to be a good substitute for the Wambaroo but time has not proven that yet to MANY of us. The Wambaroo has proven itself over time.


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1240437
03/18/12 12:20 PM
03/18/12 12:20 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 847
New Jersey
finnessa Offline
Glider Guardian
finnessa  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 847
New Jersey
It was brought to my attention today a demonstration of this diet was done at the RRR yesterday in which Suz and Karen Milas used Gerber fortified cookies which are/were deemed to be unhealthy in this diet. These women put on this demonstration for both new and old owners and people tend to look up to them both as "elders". It's safe to assume now that people will be looking at this as the way to go and will cause harm to their gliders (given the added happy responses on GG today). I saw this coming but never expected it to first come from 2 people that would have directly read the emails which I have read myself and it specifically says not to use these and why they shouldn't be used.

That being said, Alden I have a few things I want to ask you.

1.) I do not see where Rich makes the recommendation to omit water and replace part or whole with green juice. I see only the mention of green juice when dissecting your modified version of Peggy's HPW diet. Is there part of the email here missing?

2.) I don't see where a specific dry food is recommended over the small carnivore diet. Once again only a dissection of each and then of course the obvious business mans pat on the back appraisal of the Wombaroo brand. Is something missing here too?

3.) I don't see a dissection of Peggy's HPW diet only of your own Modified version. He didn't even touch hers. To which he didn't necessarily yah or nah your own diet. Is something missing here?

4.) I see he says the use of the added calcium powder is not required given the appropriate Ca:P is a 1.5:1 - 2:1. Which when properly calculated the OHPW gives a 2:1 and can fluctuate depending upon fruits and veggies used. Did I miss something here to?

5.) Would you be so kind as to post an attachment of the actual guideline you were provided with, one that isn't altered by your own notes or his as you put it?

6.) Why didn't you inform readers that Rich omitted the arrowroot cookie from the guideline he sent you and encouraged you to share that?

7.) In looking at the acronyms used in the emails, I think it's safe to put to rest now that Peggy never stole a product name from a company? Rich consistently refers to the Wombaroo High Protein Supplement as HPS and not HPW. Would it not be feasible to assume HPS is used everyday there?

I took your recommendation and fired off an email of my own with the same questions I've just asked you plus a few additional ones. I can't wait to see those answers.


Mommy to
MANY gliders
2 dogs
2 cats
3 turtles
and 4 skin kids.
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: Dancing] #1240438
03/18/12 12:31 PM
03/18/12 12:31 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,832
Big Sandy TN
Sherri Offline
Glider Addict
Sherri  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,832
Big Sandy TN
Originally Posted By: Dancing
But Peggy did NOT replicate it. She used synthetic ingredients that are inferior to the Wambaroo ingredients.

They are very different products. Peggy's may or may not prove to be a good substitute for the Wambaroo but time has not proven that yet to MANY of us. The Wambaroo has proven itself over time.



But we have different food manufacturing guidelines here that they don't have there and vice versa.

Also, there are some ingredients there that we can't get here. And it is no different than what Walmart does with "Equate" brands. Pet foods also do this all the time.


sherri

Forever home to a wide variety of animals, domestic, farm and exotic.
My passion is my little suggie sweethearts! 731-441-9814


http://www.newbysglidernook.com/index.html
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1240441
03/18/12 12:39 PM
03/18/12 12:39 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 847
New Jersey
finnessa Offline
Glider Guardian
finnessa  Offline
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Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 847
New Jersey
I have something else I wanna ask real quick that has weighed on my mind the last few days... Aren't our founding gliders originally from Indonesia? Wouldn't that potentially alter their needs being Indonesia isn't Australia? Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but Didn't Marz once say that the sugar gliders in Australia are a different sub species than the ones we have here in the United States? Wouldn't that then too make their needs and requirements different?


Mommy to
MANY gliders
2 dogs
2 cats
3 turtles
and 4 skin kids.
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1240442
03/18/12 12:41 PM
03/18/12 12:41 PM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 577
Sykesville, MD
GliderMeCrazy Offline
Glider Lover
GliderMeCrazy  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 577
Sykesville, MD
I personally would like to read the E-mails sent back and forth between yourself and Mr. Rich. I would prefer to read in it's entirety over reading your edited version of what you thought we should all read and consume from you conversations with him.

ensartain@gmail.com if you don't wish you post on here for everyone to read.

Thank you


Erin

Bentley, Taybee, Loki & Jinx!

:rbridge: Jenna & Suge. We had a wonderful 13 years together! I miss you always and will never forget you.
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1240459
03/18/12 01:56 PM
03/18/12 01:56 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 324
Portland, Oregon, USA
GlidersNW Offline
Glider Lover
GlidersNW  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 324
Portland, Oregon, USA
I am in agreeance with Erin, Finessa and Dancing. I would like to read the emails in FULL not your edited versions there of. Further more, Where did the percentages in the specified dietary needs come from? Was this his company? A seperate independant lab? A Zoo? The glider community in Australia? IT could easily be a skewed set of numbers...depending on who came up with them and for what reasons. It seems to me that much more in depth research into this need be done before tossing Peggy's diet aside as ineffective. I for one see the opposite in my animals. I have been feeding this diet for about a year now. My joeys are huge...super fluffy, and extremely healthy. My last 4 joeys were 15.8, 16.5, 17.2, and 19.1 grams. These are not the signs of a poor diet. I do agree that more time needs to go by to be sure, however as soon as someone jumps up and says there's a better diet out there...people tend to go nuts and jump on the bandwagon so to speak. I think we all need to take a step back and relax and really do our due diligence here before making any rash decisions.

Please pm me the emails if you do not want to post them up. I would like to see the conversation in full.

Matt


Matt Compton
Gliders NW
email: glidersnw@gmail.com
cell: 503-737-9540
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1240460
03/18/12 02:01 PM
03/18/12 02:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,748
New Jersey
JillMarie Offline
Serious Glideritis
JillMarie  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,748
New Jersey
I hope this thread doesnt turn into a bashing contest and get closed down. I enjoy diet discussions and hope this thread doesnt get personal.

There is nothing wrong with learning more and trying to improve what we do, but we shouldnt have to tear others down to do so.

I for one enjoyed the emails and of course have my own interpretation of them and my own set of questions that I will be asking of Mr. Rich. If I thought I would get slapped for sharing my own thoughts and responses, I may feel less inclined to share them.

Even with the arrowroot cookie, I hadnt read through the whole set of emails yet when I posted my "thoughts" about it, I was just thinking out loud I guess.

I hope this thread stays...friendly...as sharing knowledge is beneficial to all of us.


:grey: Bosom Buddy Creations:grey:
^website link wink

Remember that God Loves You!
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1240464
03/18/12 02:10 PM
03/18/12 02:10 PM
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 144
Saskatchewan, Canada
BorderCollie Offline
Joey Member
BorderCollie  Offline
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Posts: 144
Saskatchewan, Canada
This is an honest question that I've been wondering about. Why can't we just feed gliders natural diets? In the wild they don't have extravagant proven diets? Wouldn't us feeding all these supplements be like humans eating processed food? People always say with dogs, that raw is best not kibble. So why cant gliders just have natural foods that they would normally eat in the wild?

I'm just confused why everyone swears that gliders NEED a proven diet?


My lovely little Border Collie - Maggie - 11 months
&
My amazing little suggie girls - Lani and Holly
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1240465
03/18/12 02:13 PM
03/18/12 02:13 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,832
Big Sandy TN
Sherri Offline
Glider Addict
Sherri  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,832
Big Sandy TN
We don't have the flowers, plants, tree's, bugs, insects and how many of us have feeder lizards,mice and feeder birds for them? Thats why we can't feed them their natural diet in captivity.


sherri

Forever home to a wide variety of animals, domestic, farm and exotic.
My passion is my little suggie sweethearts! 731-441-9814


http://www.newbysglidernook.com/index.html
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1240484
03/18/12 03:01 PM
03/18/12 03:01 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,749
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,749
80 acres of paradise in KS
Quote:
before tossing Peggy's diet aside as ineffective.


I don't think anyone is doing that at all. I know that me and several I have spoken with are cautious with Peggy's simply because of some of the ingredients and because it has not had the TIME to prove out like the Wambaroo HPS has.


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1240502
03/18/12 04:09 PM
03/18/12 04:09 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 324
Portland, Oregon, USA
GlidersNW Offline
Glider Lover
GlidersNW  Offline
Glider Lover

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 324
Portland, Oregon, USA
I don't know...I do know that my gliders are on the HPW plus diet. I've only had two single joey litters and EVERYONE is bigger than what I read they should be oop. A 15 gram joey for me is small. Big joeys are a sign of a good diet. So is a super healthy coat. All my gliders have amazing coats. Everyone I run into who owns gliders are blown away by my glider's appearances. These aren't things that happen on a poor diet. I've put gliders that were rescues on this diet that had mild HLP and they got better...also not indicative of a poor unbalanced diet.

Also, after reading the emails in their complete form. Rich didnt' say the diet was bad. He also wasn't talking about Peggy's diet with Alden. He was specifically talking to Alden about her modified version of the diet. He did not say the protein content of the eggs was lower than the HPS he actually stated it was IDENTICAL. I think the entire conversation should be posted unedited and in whole. There are several things that are mildly misleading about the statements made about the conversation...not that it was on purpose, but it was left out. Unfortunately the lack of some of the information makes the message incomplete and misleading.

That's my opinion of the conversation that took place. I personally will be looking further into this on my own as I don't know what to think of it all anymore. But until I see concrete lab style proof that the diet is bad...or a huge wave of glider issues that are directly linkable to the diet and can be related to it with extreme certitude, I'm sticking with it. It works for me, and the gliders love it.

Matt


Matt Compton
Gliders NW
email: glidersnw@gmail.com
cell: 503-737-9540
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: GlidersNW] #1240518
03/18/12 05:10 PM
03/18/12 05:10 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
Tech Admn
GliderNursery  Offline
Tech Admn

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
Quote:
I think the entire conversation should be posted unedited and in whole.

I have seen this asked/referred to a couple of times in this thread. I think there is, but I just want to point out that they may be posted only if the original recipient of the e-mails has permission to post them.

Originally Posted By: Rule 2
Do not post names, phone numbers, addresses, personal email or correspondence without the other parties permission. Due to copyright laws, do not cut and paste articles from another site. Please use a link instead. Comments of glider related businesses and web sites will be allowed by name as long as the discussion is kept on topic and within reason. Personal bashing will not be tolerated.


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1240519
03/18/12 05:11 PM
03/18/12 05:11 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,749
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,749
80 acres of paradise in KS
According to her first post, Gordon said she is free to share with whoever wants the info.

Quote:
With his permission, I'm able to share his emails and comments with anyone interested.


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1240520
03/18/12 05:18 PM
03/18/12 05:18 PM
Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 324
Portland, Oregon, USA
GlidersNW Offline
Glider Lover
GlidersNW  Offline
Glider Lover

Joined: Jun 2011
Posts: 324
Portland, Oregon, USA
She was told she had free reign to share them by Rich.


Matt Compton
Gliders NW
email: glidersnw@gmail.com
cell: 503-737-9540
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: Sherri] #1240548
03/18/12 07:22 PM
03/18/12 07:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,889
Springfield/Eugene, OR
kitsune Offline
Glider Slave
kitsune  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,889
Springfield/Eugene, OR
Originally Posted By: Sherri
So it sounds to me like the "cookie" is more like a filler? So really it isn't any different than pouring a staple mix over a few pellets. Which in turn the pellets would be the equivelant to the carnivore diet that they use over there?

I feed a few pellets (Happy Glider Chicken) sprinkled on top of my Complete a few times a week. My gliders love their pellets wether they are soaked in Complete or dry.


Actually it was specifically asked if pellets would be a sufficient substitute for the cookie. Gordon said that it would throw off the balance of the diet, HOWEVER, if we were to find a pellet available in the US that was a close equivalent to the carnivore, it might be something to look into. I know that Gordon said something about the carbs in the cookie being factored in as well, though.

I really do think that posting the 5 emails here would help a great deal. They address a lot more than the recipe of the diet. There are important questions asked and answered, a lot of which I have tried to convey here.


Beth

mlove Glide free :rbridge: :bb: Dimitri and Tegan :wfb: :rbridge: and right-side up! mlove
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1240557
03/18/12 07:35 PM
03/18/12 07:35 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 847
New Jersey
finnessa Offline
Glider Guardian
finnessa  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 847
New Jersey
Beth Where in those emails was that asked because I don't see that anywhere in them? Maybe I overlooked that? dunno


Mommy to
MANY gliders
2 dogs
2 cats
3 turtles
and 4 skin kids.
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1240579
03/18/12 08:32 PM
03/18/12 08:32 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,889
Springfield/Eugene, OR
kitsune Offline
Glider Slave
kitsune  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,889
Springfield/Eugene, OR
Gosh, I know I saw it Finessa, I'm looking for it right now but I don't see it! I will keep looking and check with Alden to see if she remembers reading the same thing.


Beth

mlove Glide free :rbridge: :bb: Dimitri and Tegan :wfb: :rbridge: and right-side up! mlove
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1240585
03/18/12 08:41 PM
03/18/12 08:41 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,889
Springfield/Eugene, OR
kitsune Offline
Glider Slave
kitsune  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,889
Springfield/Eugene, OR
Well, poo! I can't find it. I was so sure I'd read that. But, in any case, Gordon didn't even like the toddler fortified arrowroot cookies because they would have thrown off the balance as well (and have too much iron). It makes sense that the wrong pelletted diet would change the overall nutritional analysis. But, if we could find a pellet with the same stuff as the carnivore like I said, or maybe even find a way to pellet the carnivore, it might be an easier alternative to using cookies.

Then again, maybe it would throw off the carb consumption. One cookie per glider per night is quite a bit of carbs to pull from the diet.


Beth

mlove Glide free :rbridge: :bb: Dimitri and Tegan :wfb: :rbridge: and right-side up! mlove
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1240587
03/18/12 08:45 PM
03/18/12 08:45 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,889
Springfield/Eugene, OR
kitsune Offline
Glider Slave
kitsune  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,889
Springfield/Eugene, OR
I kind of wonder if the carnivore would stand up to heat. I keep having the idea in my head that carnivore is a powder (I actually don't know for sure), perhaps we could create a cookie recipe that used the powder in it. Heck, we could probably even put the WHPS in it too, if it would hold up to heat. Glider cookies! Nearly as easy as pellets. People could even make them and vend them, since they'd probably keep.


Beth

mlove Glide free :rbridge: :bb: Dimitri and Tegan :wfb: :rbridge: and right-side up! mlove
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1240589
03/18/12 08:49 PM
03/18/12 08:49 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,832
Big Sandy TN
Sherri Offline
Glider Addict
Sherri  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,832
Big Sandy TN
No you better not, cause we may not be able to get the same ingredients here.


sherri

Forever home to a wide variety of animals, domestic, farm and exotic.
My passion is my little suggie sweethearts! 731-441-9814


http://www.newbysglidernook.com/index.html
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1240594
03/18/12 08:56 PM
03/18/12 08:56 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 847
New Jersey
finnessa Offline
Glider Guardian
finnessa  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 847
New Jersey
Wouldn't replicating the carnivore diet stuff be the same or similar to what Peggy did with the HPW Plus/Complete? Yet everyone has such a major issue with that.

Now that you've said that and it's clear that you can see the emails yourself, where do you see the mention of "The honey, at best, is for palatability, and is a bunch of empty calories." as you said earlier on in this thread?

Here is a link to the SCD it's powder.
http://www.healthy-bird.com/small_carnivore_food.htm


Mommy to
MANY gliders
2 dogs
2 cats
3 turtles
and 4 skin kids.
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1240618
03/18/12 09:40 PM
03/18/12 09:40 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
ValkyrieMome  Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
From: Kyrie's Mom [mailto:valkyriemome@aol.com] 

Sent: Saturday, 11 February 2012 

To: wombaroo@adelaide.on.net

Subject: Enquiry from the www.wombaroo.com.au Web Site

Hello, Mr. and Mrs. Rich,

I am a sugar gliders owner in America. I know you've probably heard of us!

There is a glider owner in the US named Peggy Brewer. Ms. Brewer has developed what she calls her HPW diet. I'm sure you've heard of that, as well.

This is the diet as written by her:
• 2 cups warm water
• 1.5 cups honey
• 3 scrambled eggs
• 1/4 cup High Protein Wombaroo Powder (if you have a breeding pair with a nursing or lactating female, increase the amount of HPW Powder to 1/2 cup for the female's HPW diet)
• *1 TABLEspoon Australian Bee Pollen (or American Bee Pollen)

I feed my sugar gliders a modification of this diet:
• 1.5 cups warm water
• 1 cup honey
• 2 scrambled eggs
• 1/3 cup High Protein Wombaroo Powder
• 1 TABLEspoon Bee Pollen
• 1 cup "green juice" such as Odwalla "Superfood" (http://www.odwalla.com/products/Superfood.jsp) or Bolthouse Farms "Green Goodness" (http://bolthouse.com/our-products/beverages/smoothies/green-goodness/detail)
• 3/4 teaspoon Calcium Carbonate
• 170 mg powdered milk thistle
Both versions are fed with a combination of vegetables and fruit.

If I could be so bold, I respectfully request your opinion/ review of my modifications. I respect your research and knowledge. Here in the US we debate about sugar glider diets and what is best for our gliders. Whenever there is any kind of forum debate - people comment "Go to the source! Ask Peggy Brewer!" I find that this is good advice, however the wrong source.

I am not trying to claim I invented any kind of diet using your powder. But I would like your advice and input on how glider owners can best supply our gliders' nutrition. It seems to me that a "nectar base" which includes Wombaroo High Protein Powder is a good starting place.

I am very grateful for any assistance you could offer.

Sincerely,
Alden Bullwinkle


From: Wombaroo/Passwell <wombaroo@adelaide.on.net>
Subject: RE: Enquiry
Date: February 22, 2012
To: Kyrie's Mom valkyriemome@aol.com

Hi Alden,

Thanks for your enquiry regarding Sugar Glider diets.

As you are probably aware there are many “recipes” that are used to feed Sugar Gliders. Many of these diets seem unnecessarily complicated and contain an array of ingredients, many of which duplicate the role of one another or offer little additional nutritional value.

Firstly if we look at the wild diet of Sugar Gliders it comprises mostly of native (Australian) plant secretions (nectar, sap) and insects. Carbohydrate is a major energy source and is mostly provided by the simple and complex sugars found in plant secretions. Protein and fatty acids are mainly provided by the insect component of their diet. A balance of these dietary sources provides the required levels of vitamins and minerals in the diet.

In captivity Sugar Gliders readily eat high carbohydrate foods (such as honey, fruit & vegetables) which are suitable sources of energy. However they often miss out on the protein and other essential nutrients that would be supplied by the array of insect eaten in the wild. Providing insects to captive animals is a good start, but it is impractical to try and match the variety that would be consumed in the wild. Wombaroo High Protein Supplement (HPS) was designed to supply the essential protein, fatty acids, vitamins and minerals that captive animal require. Attached is a datasheet for this product.

Wombaroo HPS should be supplied at the rate of 10g per 100g of fruit. This equates to about 10% w/v of a typical “wet” diet.

Alternatively the product can be made up as a 25% w/v suspension in warm water ie a solution consisting of 250 grams made up with water to 1 litre. We then disperse this solution over plain (sweet) biscuit at the rate of 10mL per 25grams of biscuit. In this case the biscuit simply acts as a palatable medium for which to feed the HPS over.

In terms of your diet I would make the following comments:

1) It is difficult to determine the total volume of your preparation as it has some solid and liquid components in various measures. If we exclude the 1.5 cups of warm water (which have no caloric effect) then I’m guessing that the total volume of this “wet” preparation comes to about 3 cups (750mL). 1/3 of a cup of HPS would weigh about 40g so you are using about 5% w/v HPS, which is about half our recommendation for a fruit-based diet. However because you are adding eggs then your protein levels are boosted to about the levels that we recommend.
2) Honey is a suitable carbohydrate source and adds palatability
3) Scrambled eggs are a good source of protein and fat. However if you are using Wombaroo HPS then you don’t really need egg. On a dry basis both Wombaroo HPS and Egg contain about 52% protein, and both have excellent amino acid profiles. Egg has the advantage that it is cheaper to buy than HPS. However it has the disadvantage that it also contains very high fat (about 40% on a dry basis, about a third of which is saturated), and Sugar Gliders do not require very high levels of fat (particularly saturated) in their diet (note that much of the fat in eggs is in the yolk so egg white may be preferable to use). Wombaroo HPS on the other hand has about 12% fat much of which is polyunsaturated including the essential fatty acids ALA, EPA & DHA. Also egg can harbour harmful bacteria like salmonella, which can be toxic if not properly cooked and stored.
4) Bee pollen is also another source of protein but is not required if using sufficient HPS. Bee pollen is also much less digestible than the protein in HPS so you would need to add a lot more to make it nutritionally equivalent to HPS.
5) “Green Juice” is mainly a high carbohydrate fruit-based product which will provide energy as well as some vitamins and minerals. Looks like a reasonable addition to the diet.
6) Calcium Carbonate is already present in HPS and would not be required if using it in accordance with our recommendations ( see datasheet Calcium in HPS is about 1.3%). However if all the other dietary additions are low in calcium, you may need to add extra to increase dietary levels.
7) Milk Thistle is a widely used herbal remedy for people particularly for kidney disorders. We have no evidence of its use and efficacy when it comes to a Sugar Glider’s diet, so are unable to comment on its benefit in your diet.

I hope this information has been of some help, and please do not take any of our comments negatively as we are trying to be constructive. On the whole your diet seems well-balanced and should fulfill the main dietary requirements of Sugar Gliders. We’d still recommend to feed live insects if possible as this forms a large part of their natural diet and can provide a behavioural enrichment.

Kind Regards,

Gordon Rich.

Wombaroo Food Products / Passwell Pty Ltd
PO Box 151
Glen Osmond
SA 5064
Ph 08 8391 1713
Fax 08 8391 1713
www.wombaroo.com.au


From: Kyrie's
Sent: Friday, 24 February 2012 &#8232;

Mr. Rich -

I'm afraid to report that after a night of thinking on your email, I have more and more questions.

I'm thrilled with your answers, and don't mean to be a pest to you. It would be so much better if our pets came with "care and feeding" labels!

I completely agree. It does seem as if we've gotten in our own way here in the States, making diets unnecessarily complex. I think the needs of our pets would be much better served by offering an easier to feed diet. I believe that many people here opt for easiness over nutrition, and thus the popularity of sadly lacking pelleted diets here. An ideal would be a nectar source that was just as easy, yet more healthy.

What are your thoughts on substituting egg-whites for whole eggs? Would this add the (more inexpensive) protein without the high fat content? If yes, then how many egg-whites should be added?

What are your thoughts, if any, about replacing the honey with Acacia Gum? Since honey is fructose-based, and acacia gum (powder) is sucrose-based, would it be a better fit for the nutritional needs of gliders? Would it throw off the balance of other parts of the diet?

When you write about serving your solution over plain (sweet) biscuits, could you perhaps give me an example of this kind of biscuit? Recently, in a conversation with a British sugar glider owner, I realized that in her frequent references to feeding "biscuits", she was actually feeding what Americans call "kibble." This simple semantic replacement made a huge difference in what I was perceiving her to be saying! So, I do want to clarify what "biscuit" is in Australia. Here in the States, biscuit would be something like "Monkey Biscuit" as sold by Exotic Nutrition http://www.exoticnutrition.com/r1077743.html. These are roughly 5cm x 1.25cm little "blocks" of hard food.

Regarding the addition of Calcium Carbonate - American glider owners are somewhat obsessed with a 2:1 ratio of Calcium:Phosphorus. The concern was raised that the "HPW diet" invented by Ms. Brewer had a ratio of closer to 1 Ca:1 Ph, so the extra calcium is added. Is this not accurate?

Again - I am so grateful for your time and guidance.

Sincerely,
Alden

From: Wombaroo/Passwell <wombaroo@adelaide.on.net>
Date: February 23, 2012

Hi Alden,

We are more than happy to answer your enquiries about Sugar Glider Nutrition. In answer to your questions:

1. Egg white would be a better way of adding protein without excessive fat compared to whole eggs. Eggs are approximately 2/3 white and 1/3 yolk, so on a weight basis you would need to add 1.5 egg whites per 1 whole egg. However egg white contains much more water than the yolk (87% compared to 52%) so gram for gram it is much more dilute in nutrients. Also the yolk contains higher levels of some nutrients (vitamins & minerals) compared to the white. This is why we don’t use eggs at all for gliders – the yolk contains excess fat and the white is relatively dilute in nutrients. Wombaroo HPS is much more concentrated in nutrients and contains the full range of amino acids, fatty acids, vitamins and minerals in a balanced formula.
2. The composition of honey depends on the source, but is mainly the monosaccharides fructose and glucose (about 50/50). Sucrose is a disaccharide consisting of a fructose unit bonded to a glucose unit. As long as you have the intestinal enzyme sucrase, the sucrose is easily converted to its component sugars of glucose and fructose. All nectar eating species (including sugar gliders) have very high activity of sucrase and therefore absorb sucrose very easily. So nutritionally speaking, there is no difference as to whether you supply sucrose or a 50/50 mix of fructose/glucose.
3. The biscuits we refer to are what you call a “cookie” in the US (but we use plain ones - nothing covered with chocolate or icing!). Nothing like a “monkey biscuit” as these would be fortified with various nutrients that would unbalance the nutrition in the HPS. The purpose of using the cookie is as a palatable “vehicle” for supply the nutrients in the HPS.
4. We recommend a dietary Calcium to Phosphorus ratio (Ca:P) of about 1.5. A Ca:P ratio of about 2:1 is what is in bone, but this is not directly applicable to the diet (the turnover rates of calcium and phosphorus in the body are different). Note the dietary ratio should be more accurately referred to as Available Ca:P as it depends on the bioavailability of the nutritional sources. Most phosphorus sources from plant origin have a lower availability of phosphorus (anywhere from 10-60%) due to the presence of phytate. On the other hand the bioavailability of calcium in calcium carbonate is close to 100%. So you need to account for this when calculating Ca:P. It is probably best to supply calcium based on the energy intake of the animal. For marsupials like Sugar Gliders we recommend 480mg of calcium per MJ of metabolisable energy.

Kind Regards,

Gordon Rich.

From: Kyrie's Mom
Sent: Saturday, 25 February 2012 &#8232;

Mr. Rich-

This is wonderful! Thank you so much for this dialog, and your excellent advice.

What do you think about the addition of an Insectivore diet, such as the one available by Mazuri or Exotic Nutrition? I'm attaching pdfs of the Nutrition statements from 3 such pelleted diets. I'm wondering if providing these would be beneficial to sugar gliders at all.

I have one more question (at this time ... maybe more coming!). Would you agree to the formulation of your suggestions into a "diet" I can present to our American glider community? I would like to present a diet that is "Wombaroo Approved". I would like to publicly share at least part of this conversation with those people interested, and have the outcome be a recipe that the lay-person can follow, and in doing so, feel more confident about their pet sugar gliders' diet.


From: Wombaroo/Passwell <wombaroo@adelaide.on.net>
Date: February 26, 2012

Hi Alden,

Without going into too much detail, I have the following comments about the “Insectivore” diets you have presented:

1. The Exotic Nutrition Insect Eater contains 56.8% moisture so can not be a pelleted diet. The moisture represents no nutritional benefit so you would have to ascertain whether it represents value for money, given the high moisture content. On a dry basis this diet contains about 70% protein which is quite high (not a bad thing for an insectivore diet). However a quick summation of the product components (protein, fat, moisture, ash + fibre) = 105.5% which is already over 100% without taking into account non-fibre Carbohydrate. This looks wrong to me because the ingredients contain quite a few digestible carbohydrate sources including apple, pear, bananas, carrots, sweat potatoes, wheat germ, honey – these are either in negligible quantities or the product analysis is wrong. Also the Calcium content on a dry basis is about 5% which I believe is far too high for an Insectivore diet.
2. The Insectivore Fare product contains 40% moisture so can not be a pelleted diet. The moisture represents no nutritional benefit so you would have to ascertain whether it represents value for money, given the high moisture content. On a dry basis this diet contains about 33% protein which is relatively low for an Insectivore diet. As there is no further technical data on this product we can not make any other comments about its suitability.
3. The Mazuri Insectivore diet is an extruded product so would have relatively low moisture content. It contains 28.5% protein which is relatively low for an Insectivore diet. Everything else in this diet appears OK at first glance.

In light of these comments I don’t think any of these products compare that favourably to Wombaroo HPS. The first contains a lot of moisture, but appears high in protein (on a dry basis) - however I don’t entirely trust the product analysis and the calcium levels. Given that the Wombaroo product contains about 52% protein it is significantly higher than the 2nd & 3rd diets discussed, which we believe is more suitable for insectivorous animals.

The upshot is that none of these products would be required if feeding adequate quantities of Wombaroo HPS.

In terms of a “Wombaroo Approved” diet, we don’t really want to go down that path as it will tend to alienate people and we do not want to be seen as dictators. Invariably as soon as you publish a “complete” diet people want to make additions or changes and things tend to get out of balance. We believe that our product recommendations are relatively easy to follow (as long as you understand that “biscuit” is synonymous with “cookie” in the USA), but still allow for an individual’s flexibility. The upshot is that our product is a useful supplement which can be applied to a range of different food sources to provide balanced levels of protein, fatty acids, vitamins & minerals into a Sugar Glider’s diet. I am happy for you to share any of this information with others, however we always urge people to contact us directly if they have specific questions about the products.

Kind Regards,

Gordon Rich.

From: Kyrie's Mom [
Sent: Wednesday, 29 February 2012

Mr. Rich -

I guess what I don't fully understand is ... What exactly are your recommendations for feeding sugar gliders? I think the reason for my confusion is that when you've referred to your product recommendations, I'm not sure exactly what those are.

Since I am in the US and buy High Protein Powder from another source that imports it, perhaps I'm not getting the original packaging?

I see on your site that you also offer a Small Carnivore Food. Would that be something appropriate to add to a sugar glider diet?

Thanks for your time!
Alden

From: Wombaroo/Passwell
Date: March 5, 2012

Hi Alden,

Please find attached our feeding guidelines for Sugar Gliders.

As outlined in the guidelines we use Wombaroo Small Carnivore Food as a replacement/adjunct to live insect foods. I’m not sure if this product is widely available in the US, but our distributor should be able to get it in.

Kind Regards,

Gordon Rich.


From: Kyrie's Mom
Sent: Friday, 9 March 2012

Mr. Rich -

Thank you! I find this very enlightening!

I will be calling the US distributor.

Arrowroot "cookies" in America are something made for toddlers.
Americans love to put iron in anything that is intended for a baby! Do you feel that the amount of iron is acceptable for a glider? Are the other values acceptable?


From: Wombaroo/Passwell
Date: March 8, 2012 7:26:06 PM CST

Hi Alden,

I wouldn’t recommend using a fortified baby biscuit as food for gliders. Just a normal plain cookie wouldn’t have as much iron. The arrowroot biscuits we get here in Australia are not fortified for babies – I probably should delete reference to them for our US customers!

Regards,

Gordon.


From: Kyrie's Mom
Sent: Wednesday, 14 March 2012

I have found a natural (unfortified) source for the cookies.

May I please share this discussion with some friends publicly? I will not pass this off as a "Wombaroo Approved diet" - but I think many American sugar glider owners would benefit from hearing more about your recommendations and the specifics. Of course, any questions I would direct to you. Your email may be swamped!

Alden
Kyrie's Mom
valkyriemome@aol.com


From: Wombaroo/Passwell
Date: March 13, 2012

Hi Alden,

No problems, feel free to discuss any of these issues publicly. We are happy to answer any specific questions. We are also happy for you to distribute the information sheet with our recommendations/suggestions (I have attached a copy here, and omitted the reference to arrowroot biscuits to avoid confusion with the fortified baby products).

Kind regards,

Gordon.


Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1240620
03/18/12 09:44 PM
03/18/12 09:44 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 847
New Jersey
finnessa Offline
Glider Guardian
finnessa  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 847
New Jersey
Can you post the attachments sent to you so we can see those too? Those weren't passed around in the forwarded emails.


Mommy to
MANY gliders
2 dogs
2 cats
3 turtles
and 4 skin kids.
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1240621
03/18/12 09:47 PM
03/18/12 09:47 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
ValkyrieMome  Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
Finessa - to answer your question, I didn't omit his original references to the Arrowroot cookie, because I thought people were smart enough to figure out what "non-fortified" meant.

Please re-read ALL my comments.

Sherri - Have I ever once. ONCE. recommended that anyone toss aside their diet. I, in fact said:
Quote:
I'm not really concerned about whether anyone jumps on board or not! I had done some leg-work with this, and had learned information I haven't seen posted anywhere else. I post entirely to let others know these things I learned. After that, do with it what you will! If you are happy with the diet you are feeding, please don't change!

If, like me, you were continuing to wonder and question and want more for your gliders, you might consider giving this a try.


I'm sorry that some people think this questioning is somehow threatening to Peggy or the HPW diet(s). I was not comfortable feeding that, and have continued to tweak and modify and ask questions. All I've done is present the result of my questioning. If you don't like the questions I've asked - please ask your own!

If you feel I'm attacking Peggy - please show me where!

Peggy's post in this thread actually thanked me for posting. Perhaps she was being sarcastic? Perhaps she's revealing to you all privately that she feels my contacting Wombaroo was some how bashing her?

I'll say it again: I personally do not feel comfortable feeding any of the HPW diets as written, and I've continued to question and seek something different. If YOU are comfortable with the diet you feed - PLEASE continue feeding it!!


Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1240623
03/18/12 09:53 PM
03/18/12 09:53 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
ValkyrieMome  Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
He uses tables that do not copy and paste well, so it distorts the information. That's why I didn't post his attachments. I'll try to post them here the best I can.


Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1240624
03/18/12 09:53 PM
03/18/12 09:53 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,889
Springfield/Eugene, OR
kitsune Offline
Glider Slave
kitsune  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,889
Springfield/Eugene, OR
Originally Posted By: Gordon
2) Honey is a suitable carbohydrate source and adds palatability


This was in the first email. I personally find honey to be a bad choice for a carbohydrate because it is fruictose-based. I would much rather try something like hydrated acacia gum powder, which is sucrose-based. I don't see the sense in making the diet so fruictose-heavy for the want of carbs. So, the only real purpose it's serving in the diet is palatability, since there are so many healthier sources of carbs available. You could use sugar water and it would be healthier for their livers.


Beth

mlove Glide free :rbridge: :bb: Dimitri and Tegan :wfb: :rbridge: and right-side up! mlove
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1240625
03/18/12 09:55 PM
03/18/12 09:55 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,800
St. Johns, Florida
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Srlb  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,800
St. Johns, Florida
Quote:
Peggy's post in this thread actually thanked me for posting. Perhaps she was being sarcastic? Perhaps she's revealing to you all privately that she feels my contacting Wombaroo was some how bashing her?


Alden, just for the record, I was very sincere when I said I was glad and for the reason as posted above.


Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love� Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1240627
03/18/12 09:56 PM
03/18/12 09:56 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 847
New Jersey
finnessa Offline
Glider Guardian
finnessa  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 847
New Jersey
Originally Posted By: ValkyrieMome
He uses tables that do not copy and paste well, so it distorts the information. That's why I didn't post his attachments. I'll try to post them here the best I can.


It may be best to screenshot them and upload them as photos vs fighting with your pc to get it just right.


Beth I was leaning more toward the empty calories part as he didn't say that.

Last edited by finnessa; 03/18/12 09:58 PM.

Mommy to
MANY gliders
2 dogs
2 cats
3 turtles
and 4 skin kids.
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1240628
03/18/12 09:57 PM
03/18/12 09:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
ValkyrieMome  Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
This was his first attachment:

Wombaroo Food Products
Feeding Guidelines for Sugar Gliders
These guidelines largely rely on using Wombaroo High Protein Supplement™ (HPS™) to provide the essential protein, fatty acids, vitamins & minerals in the diet.
The addition of other nutritional supplements or high-energy foods is not recommended as this can severely affect the balance of nutrients in the diet. However there is plenty of scope for variation within the food types presented in the diet as outlined in the accompanying notes.
The diet is based on a 130g adult animal at maintenance (basal metabolic rate1,2 × 2.5) with a calculated energy requirement of approximately 113 kJ/day.
Approximate feed proportions of diet are:
Column 1: Daily Feed amount per animal
1)Fruit & Vegetables (supplemented with HPS™ powder) 20g diced Fruit & Veg with 2g of Wombaroo HPS™ (1 level teaspoon) dispersed over it
2)Plain Biscuit (supplemented with HPS™ solution*) 5 g plain Biscuit/Cookie (eg ½ an arrowroot or tea biscuit) with 2 ml of Wombaroo HPS Solution* poured over it.
3)Small Carnivore Food™ 2g (1 level teaspoon) of prepared Wombaroo Small Carnivore Food™ made up as a moist crumble
4) Live Food 1g mealworms, crickets or other invertebrates
Column 2: Proportion of diet (as fed basis)
1)75%
2)15%
3) 7%
4)3%
* Wombaroo HPS Solution is made by suspending 1 part HPS™ powder (25g) into 3 parts warm water (75ml) and mixing well.

Approximate analysis of the above diet (dry basis):
Energy 17.5MJ/kg

Protein 20.0%
Fat 11.0%
Calcium 0.50%
Phosphorus (available) 0.34%
Ca/P ratio 1.5

For breeding or growing animals increase the amount of Wombaroo HPS™ or Small Carnivore Food™ by 50%.

Notes:
Fruit & Vegetables (75% of diet)
These are offered as a major carbohydrate (energy) source in the diet. Sugar Gliders are able to readily digest both simple sugars and complex carbohydrates4. Fruits tend to be more palatable than vegetables due to higher sugar content. We generally feed about 75% fruit and 25% vegetables but this can vary based on seasonal availability and animal preference. A large variety of fresh fruits may be accepted including (and not limited to) berries, apple, pear, citrus, stone fruits, rockmelon (cantaloupe) with seeds, paw paw (papaya) with seeds. Likewise an assortment of vegetables may be offered including cucumber with seeds, sweet potato and grated carrot. As long as these foods are supplemented with the recommended amount of Wombaroo High protein Supplement (HPS) then all essential nutrients are properly balanced. There is little need to be concerned about the calcium to phosphorus ratio of individual food items as this is balanced out by the addition of the HPS.

HPS Solution with Plain Biscuit/Cookie (15% of diet)
This provides another energy source, which uses the biscuit as “vehicle” for the liquid HPS™ solution. The HPS™ solution may also be used as the basis of an artificial nectar diet which can be made more palatable by the addition of honey, blended fruit or juice. If using these other food items (which are high in carbohydrate) then the amount of biscuit can be reduced accordingly or removed altogether. Alternatively one can also use Wombaroo Nectar Shake n Make™ as a nutritionally balanced nectar diet.

Small Carnivore Food & Live Food (up to 10% of diet)
Wombaroo Small Carnivore Food™ is used as a live food (insect) replacement. Effectively our suggested diet can use either Small Carnivore Food or “Live Food” or a combination of both. The Small Carnivore Food™ has the advantage that it is fully balanced with vitamins & minerals, whereas insects are generally deficient in calcium. However live insects are a natural part of a Sugar Glider’s diet and are a favoured food which offer behavioural enrichment. When feeding insects it is important to offer a variety as feeding one type alone may be nutritionally deficient. The larval stage of insects (eg mealworms, fly pupae) tend to be higher in fat, so should only be used as a treat. Adult stage insects (eg crickets, moths, cockroaches) have a higher protein content and are therefore provide a better source of nutrition in a captive diet. In all cases feeder insects can be fortified by growing them on a nutritional substrate such as Passwell Insect Booster™. It is interesting to note that sugar gliders also feed on spiders in the wild. Spiders contain elevated levels of the sulphonic amino acid taurine, which may be particularly beneficial in the growth and development of young gliders. Both Wombaroo HPS™ and Small Carnivore Food™ contain added levels of taurine.

Blossoms & Foliage
It is also recommended to provide as much native (Australian) blossom and foliage as possible (eg eucalypt, acacia, callistemon, grevillea, banksia). Larger branches of eucalypt are also beneficial to stimulate natural foraging behaviour such as chewing of bark.

Pollen
Pollen from native plants is a natural part of the diet and is often consumed by gliders in conjunction with nectar3. However most commercial forms of pollen (ie Bee Pollen) are harvested from bees and are not nutritionally equivalent to the native plant pollen consumed by gliders (bee pollens are large agglomerations of pollen grains bound together with carbohydrates). As a result, bee pollen is significantly less digestible and offers little additional nutritional value to captive gliders already being fed a balanced diet. The range of amino acids, vitamins and minerals found in plant pollen are also contained in Wombaroo HPS™, so we believe the addition of pollen to this diet is unnecessary.

Iron Storage Disease
Excessive dietary iron can induce Iron Storage Disease (ISD), which is the accumulation of iron in body organs and tissues. In prolonged cases ISD can lead to organ failure and death. Some nectarivorous and frugivorous species are prone to ISD, and these species normally have low levels of iron in their natural diet. Although iron storage disease has not been widely reported in sugar gliders, evidence of tissue iron deposition has been seen in gliders at necropsy4. Many commercial human foods (eg baby foods) and supplements are fortified with iron and these should be avoided when feeding sugar gliders. Some commonly fed glider “recipes” may contain excessive iron content4. Wombaroo High Protein Supplement™ contains less than 40ppm Iron and thus provides safe levels of iron in the diet.

References
1. Dawson TJ, Hulbert AJ (1970). Standard metabolism, body temperature, and surface areas of Australian marsupials. Am J Phys 1970;218:1233–8.
2. Nagy KA, Suckling GC (1985). Field energetics and water balance of sugar gliders, Petaurus breviceps (Marsupialia: Petauridae). Aust J Zool;33:683–91.
3. Smith AP. (1982) diet and feeding strategies of the marsupial sugar glider in temperate Australia. J Anim Ecol;51:149–66.
4. Dierenfeld E.S. (2009) Feeding Behaviour and Nutrition of the Sugar Glider (Petaurus breviceps). The veterinary clinics of North America Exotic animal practice Volume: 12, Issue: 2, Publisher: Elsevier Ltd, Pages: 209-15, xiii-viii.


Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
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