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Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: Srlb] #1240630
03/18/12 08:59 PM
03/18/12 08:59 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
ValkyrieMome  Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: Srlb
Quote:
Peggy's post in this thread actually thanked me for posting. Perhaps she was being sarcastic? Perhaps she's revealing to you all privately that she feels my contacting Wombaroo was some how bashing her?


Alden, just for the record, I was very sincere when I said I was glad and for the reason as posted above.



Thanks, Peggy! That's what I had assumed. I'm confused by the people posting here to defend your HPW diets, as I equally sincerely do not believe I'm attacking them.


Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1240632
03/18/12 09:00 PM
03/18/12 09:00 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,832
Big Sandy TN
Sherri Offline
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Sherri  Offline
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I never said that you had said that people should toss their current diet aside.

I just see so many people getting the idea that "they" feel that they could jump to another diet.

We see it happening all the time.


sherri

Forever home to a wide variety of animals, domestic, farm and exotic.
My passion is my little suggie sweethearts! 731-441-9814


http://www.newbysglidernook.com/index.html
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1240633
03/18/12 09:01 PM
03/18/12 09:01 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
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The second attachment he sent was exactly identical to the first, except he replaced these words:
2)Plain Biscuit (supplemented with HPS™ solution*) 5 g plain Biscuit/Cookie (eg ½ an arrowroot or tea biscuit) with 2 ml of Wombaroo HPS Solution* poured over it.

With these:
5 g plain Biscuit/Cookie (eg ½ a tea biscuit) with 2 ml of Wombaroo HPS Solution* poured over it.


Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1240634
03/18/12 09:02 PM
03/18/12 09:02 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,889
Springfield/Eugene, OR
kitsune Offline
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Originally Posted By: ValkyrieMome
I'm sorry that some people think this questioning is somehow threatening to Peggy or the HPW diet(s). I was not comfortable feeding that, and have continued to tweak and modify and ask questions. All I've done is present the result of my questioning. If you don't like the questions I've asked - please ask your own!

If you feel I'm attacking Peggy - please show me where!


I will say that MY posts have mentioned Peggy's diet because I see this diet as an improvement on them. I have been careful not to bash Peggy's diet as it is not my intentnion, but I will say that I would choose this diet over Priscilla's, and before hers was on the top of my list (I have been looking for a new diet for several months). It is hard for me not to consider Peggy's original HPW diet recipe as I look at this diet because they are unavoidably linked, in that Peggy built upon this diet.


Beth

mlove Glide free :rbridge: :bb: Dimitri and Tegan :wfb: :rbridge: and right-side up! mlove
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1240639
03/18/12 09:09 PM
03/18/12 09:09 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,800
St. Johns, Florida
Srlb Offline
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St. Johns, Florida
Originally Posted By: ValkyrieMome
Originally Posted By: Srlb
Quote:
Peggy's post in this thread actually thanked me for posting. Perhaps she was being sarcastic? Perhaps she's revealing to you all privately that she feels my contacting Wombaroo was some how bashing her?


Alden, just for the record, I was very sincere when I said I was glad and for the reason as posted above.



Thanks, Peggy! That's what I had assumed. I'm confused by the people posting here to defend your HPW diets, as I equally sincerely do not believe I'm attacking them.


I think some may have been uncertain by some of your responses once they had seen the emails from G.R. themselves (IE:you stating he was commenting on my diet, when he was actually commenting on yours etc...)

Now that this has all posted, folks can put to rest the confusion in the HPW diets and the HPS and see that the HPS was just a mere ingredient in a diet that was created many years ago and used with great success. If they have any further question about any of the Powders, be it HPS, HPW Plus or HPW Complete (or the Original HPW diet) they can now contact either Mr. Rich or Myself depending on which powder or diets they have questions on.


Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love� Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: finnessa] #1240640
03/18/12 09:12 PM
03/18/12 09:12 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline OP
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Denton, TX
Originally Posted By: finnessa
Wouldn't replicating the carnivore diet stuff be the same or similar to what Peggy did with the HPW Plus/Complete? Yet everyone has such a major issue with that.

Now that you've said that and it's clear that you can see the emails yourself, where do you see the mention of "The honey, at best, is for palatability, and is a bunch of empty calories." as you said earlier on in this thread?

Here is a link to the SCD it's powder.
http://www.healthy-bird.com/small_carnivore_food.htm


To your first point - yes, it is an unhappy necessity to replace the carnivore diet with another insectivore food for 2 months. It will be two entire long horrible months before the Carnivore diet can be obtained in the US. I sincerely regret having to substitute, but it is sadly the choice I'm making.

To your second point - are you addressing me? Mr. Rich specifically says in his first email that
Quote:
2) Honey is a suitable carbohydrate source and adds palatability

I believe there are many who feel honey is empty calories. I'm not one of them.

To a previous point - who cares whether or not gliders come from Australia, Indonesia or the moon? I'm trying to feed the best, healthiest diet I can, while also suggesting something simple to those people who prefer ease of use to nutrition. If gliders could be fed almost as quickly with this method as they can with an incomplete, insufficient pelleted diet, perhaps we can reach more people who refuse to feed our current "approved diets" because they are too complicated?


Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: Srlb] #1240642
03/18/12 09:15 PM
03/18/12 09:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
ValkyrieMome  Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
Originally Posted By: Srlb
I think some may have been uncertain by some of your responses once they had seen the emails from G.R. themselves (IE:you stating he was commenting on my diet, when he was actually commenting on yours etc...)


True.

These parts of his first email specifically address the ingredients and preparation of the Original HPW diet, not my modifications.

Quote:
1) It is difficult to determine the total volume of your preparation as it has some solid and liquid components in various measures. If we exclude the 1.5 cups of warm water (which have no caloric effect) then I’m guessing that the total volume of this “wet” preparation comes to about 3 cups (750mL). 1/3 of a cup of HPS would weigh about 40g so you are using about 5% w/v HPS, which is about half our recommendation for a fruit-based diet. However because you are adding eggs then your protein levels are boosted to about the levels that we recommend.
2) Honey is a suitable carbohydrate source and adds palatability
3) Scrambled eggs are a good source of protein and fat. However if you are using Wombaroo HPS then you don’t really need egg. On a dry basis both Wombaroo HPS and Egg contain about 52% protein, and both have excellent amino acid profiles. Egg has the advantage that it is cheaper to buy than HPS. However it has the disadvantage that it also contains very high fat (about 40% on a dry basis, about a third of which is saturated), and Sugar Gliders do not require very high levels of fat (particularly saturated) in their diet (note that much of the fat in eggs is in the yolk so egg white may be preferable to use). Wombaroo HPS on the other hand has about 12% fat much of which is polyunsaturated including the essential fatty acids ALA, EPA & DHA. Also egg can harbour harmful bacteria like salmonella, which can be toxic if not properly cooked and stored.
4) Bee pollen is also another source of protein but is not required if using sufficient HPS. Bee pollen is also much less digestible than the protein in HPS so you would need to add a lot more to make it nutritionally equivalent to HPS.


The remaining points are ingredients that I use separately from how it is written. The first four are ingredients we each use, and his comments on those.


Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1240643
03/18/12 09:17 PM
03/18/12 09:17 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 847
New Jersey
finnessa Offline
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finnessa  Offline
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New Jersey
Alden I was responding/talking to Beth in all of that post.

I said replicate not replace. Go back to the post from Beth right above mine and you'll see where my post there came from in entirety.

You missed my point in the where ours are from thing. We don't have access to fresh foliage and what they would catch live but since we're going about what's natural for them in this thread wouldn't it be more natural to feed what they would have been fed in Indonesia and not what their cousins in Australia would eat?

Last edited by finnessa; 03/18/12 09:20 PM.

Mommy to
MANY gliders
2 dogs
2 cats
3 turtles
and 4 skin kids.
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: finnessa] #1240644
03/18/12 09:18 PM
03/18/12 09:18 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
ValkyrieMome  Offline OP
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
Originally Posted By: finnessa
Alden I was responding/talking to Beth in all of that post.


Oh - ok. Sorry. :thumb2:


Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1240647
03/18/12 09:25 PM
03/18/12 09:25 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,800
St. Johns, Florida
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Srlb  Offline
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Posts: 16,800
St. Johns, Florida
Although the ingredients may be common in your modification Alden the words from Mr. Rich were:

Quote:
In terms of your diet I would make the following comments:


Im really not trying to split hairs here, just trying to show you how things can be read differently when more than one person reads the same thing.


Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love� Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1240649
03/18/12 09:28 PM
03/18/12 09:28 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,832
Big Sandy TN
Sherri Offline
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Sherri  Offline
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Posts: 3,832
Big Sandy TN
Originally Posted By: ValkyrieMome
Wombaroo Food Products
Feeding Guidelines for Sugar Gliders

These guidelines largely rely on using Wombaroo High Protein Supplement™ (HPS™) to provide the essential protein, fatty acids, vitamins & minerals in the diet.

The addition of other nutritional supplements or high-energy foods is not recommended as this can severely affect the balance of nutrients in the diet. However there is plenty of scope for variation within the food types presented in the diet as outlined in the accompanying notes.
The diet is based on a 130g adult animal at maintenance (basal metabolic rate1,2 × 2.5) with a calculated energy requirement of approximately 113 kJ/day.

Approximate feed proportions of diet are:

Fruit & Vegetables
(supplemented with HPS™ powder)
• 20g diced Fruit & Veg with 2g of Wombaroo HPS™ (1 level teaspoon) dispersed over it - 75%
• Plain Biscuit (supplemented with HPS™ solution*) - 5 g plain Biscuit/Cookie (eg ½ an arrowroot or tea biscuit) with 2 ml of Wombaroo HPS Solution* poured over it. - 15% NOT a fortified toddler arrowroot cookie. These are not fortified: http://tinyurl.com/8yy8ozm
• Small Carnivore Food™ - 2g (1 level teaspoon) of prepared Wombaroo Small Carnivore Food™ made up as a moist crumble - 7%
I have contacted Karen Milas about this. She expects this food to be imported by the end of May. In the meantime, Mr. Rich commented that Mazuri Insectivore Diet, while low in protein, had good ingredients and balance.
• Live Food - 1g mealworms, crickets or other invertebrates - 3%
* Wombaroo HPS Solution is made by suspending 1 part HPS™ powder (25g) into 3 parts warm water (75ml) and mixing well. Mr. Gordon Rich thought the “green juice” made a logical and reasonable addition in our American diets. Substituting green juice for all or part of the water here seems like a good idea. Can also add honey. See his notes below about this.

Approximate analysis of the above diet (dry basis):
Energy 17.5MJ/kg
Protein 20.0%
Fat 11.0%
Calcium 0.50%
Phosphorus (available) 0.34%
Ca/P ratio 1.5

For breeding or growing animals increase the amount of Wombaroo HPS™ or Small Carnivore Food™ by 50%.




I'm not saying that this diet is complicated by any means, but to me it doesn't sound as simple or as easy as you make it out to be. Especially given the fact that we don't have many of the same items that are as easily available over there.


sherri

Forever home to a wide variety of animals, domestic, farm and exotic.
My passion is my little suggie sweethearts! 731-441-9814


http://www.newbysglidernook.com/index.html
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1240653
03/18/12 09:37 PM
03/18/12 09:37 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 847
New Jersey
finnessa Offline
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finnessa  Offline
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Posts: 847
New Jersey
I'm gonna repost this since seems most was overlooked.

1.) I do not see where Rich makes the recommendation to omit water and replace part or whole with green juice. I see only the mention of green juice when dissecting your modified version of Peggy's HPW diet. Is there part of the email here missing?

2.) I don't see where a specific dry food is recommended over the small carnivore diet. Once again only a dissection of each and then of course the obvious business mans pat on the back appraisal of the Wombaroo brand. Is something missing here too?

3.) I don't see a dissection of Peggy's HPW diet only of your own Modified version. He didn't even touch hers. To which he didn't necessarily yah or nah your own diet. Is something missing here?

4.) I see he says the use of the added calcium powder is not required given the appropriate Ca:P is a 1.5:1 - 2:1. Which when properly calculated the OHPW gives a 2:1 and can fluctuate depending upon fruits and veggies used. Did I miss something here to?

5.) Would you be so kind as to post an attachment of the actual guideline you were provided with, one that isn't altered by your own notes or his as you put it? Already done thank you

6.) Why didn't you inform readers that Rich omitted the arrowroot cookie from the guideline he sent you and encouraged you to share that? Already answered I think

7.) In looking at the acronyms used in the emails, I think it's safe to put to rest now that Peggy never stole a product name from a company? Rich consistently refers to the Wombaroo High Protein Supplement as HPS and not HPW. Would it not be feasible to assume HPS is used everyday there?


Mommy to
MANY gliders
2 dogs
2 cats
3 turtles
and 4 skin kids.
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1240654
03/18/12 09:43 PM
03/18/12 09:43 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
ValkyrieMome  Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
No - it wasn't overlooked.


Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1240655
03/18/12 09:48 PM
03/18/12 09:48 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,889
Springfield/Eugene, OR
kitsune Offline
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Joined: Oct 2003
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Springfield/Eugene, OR
Mix powder with water, drip on a cookie.

Add carnivore, bugs, fruits/veggies.

Am I missing something? This is one of the simplest diets I've seen.


Beth

mlove Glide free :rbridge: :bb: Dimitri and Tegan :wfb: :rbridge: and right-side up! mlove
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1240656
03/18/12 09:50 PM
03/18/12 09:50 PM
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Posts: 847
New Jersey
finnessa Offline
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finnessa  Offline
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New Jersey
The complete diet is actually much simpler if you look at it that way. There is no cookie needed for dripping. Or carnivore for that matter.

Last edited by finnessa; 03/18/12 09:51 PM.

Mommy to
MANY gliders
2 dogs
2 cats
3 turtles
and 4 skin kids.
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: finnessa] #1240663
03/18/12 09:54 PM
03/18/12 09:54 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,889
Springfield/Eugene, OR
kitsune Offline
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Springfield/Eugene, OR
Originally Posted By: finnessa
The complete diet is actually much simpler if you look at it that way. There is no cookie needed for dripping. Or carnivore for that matter.


I didn't say it was simpler than Complete. I said it was simple. I think I could probably handle all of that cookie dripping and carnivore sprinkling.


Beth

mlove Glide free :rbridge: :bb: Dimitri and Tegan :wfb: :rbridge: and right-side up! mlove
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1240664
03/18/12 09:54 PM
03/18/12 09:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
ValkyrieMome  Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
Cool. Then don't hurt yourself, Finnessa - keep feeding that! It works for you. That's great.

Really - I'm glad it works for you. It merely didn't work for me! So - I won't be feeding it.


Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1240667
03/18/12 09:57 PM
03/18/12 09:57 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 847
New Jersey
finnessa Offline
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finnessa  Offline
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Posts: 847
New Jersey
I actually don't currently feed complete but thanks for your approval.

1)Fruit & Vegetables (supplemented with HPS™ powder) 20g diced Fruit & Veg with 2g of Wombaroo HPS™ (1 level teaspoon) dispersed over it
2)Plain Biscuit (supplemented with HPS™ solution*) 5 g plain Biscuit/Cookie (eg ½ an arrowroot or tea biscuit) with 2 ml of Wombaroo HPS Solution* poured over it.
3)Small Carnivore Food™ 2g (1 level teaspoon) of prepared Wombaroo Small Carnivore Food™ made up as a moist crumble
4) Live Food 1g mealworms, crickets or other invertebrates

I'd say this is a bit more than just

"Mix powder with water, drip on a cookie.

Add carnivore, bugs, fruits/veggies."

Your explanation is the one that sends people into making things that cause harm when they say hey I can take powder to water, pour it on this graham cracker then give them a roach from the bathroom and a variety of fruits and veggies.


Mommy to
MANY gliders
2 dogs
2 cats
3 turtles
and 4 skin kids.
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1240670
03/18/12 10:05 PM
03/18/12 10:05 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,889
Springfield/Eugene, OR
kitsune Offline
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kitsune  Offline
Glider Slave

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Posts: 1,889
Springfield/Eugene, OR
Fruits and veggies--fed the same way we feed them.

A cookie

drip powder/water over them, in total 4ml--about a teaspoon

Carnivore is mixed by adding water to powder until it's crumbly, the same way you'd add water to Complete, but stop sooner! Add to the dish.

Mealies...I suppose this is the complicated part. Mealie time always takes me like half an hour! And I only have 5 gliders!

That's not very complicated to me...but if it really seems complicated to you, you probably shouldn't feed it. If you fed it wrong it would throw off the balance, like with any diet. I don't really think there's a point in comparing simplicity with Complete, because no one is saying that it's not as complicated. If simplicity is so important to you, why don't you feed Complete?


Beth

mlove Glide free :rbridge: :bb: Dimitri and Tegan :wfb: :rbridge: and right-side up! mlove
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1240671
03/18/12 10:06 PM
03/18/12 10:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
ValkyrieMome  Offline OP
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Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
Finnessa -

I'm really not going to argue about this any further. You've stated your opinions. I've stated mine. We'll have to agree to disagree.

I personally feel you are being overly-dramatic about this. But that's just my opinion. I just feel you are being argumentative for the sake of being, and there's really nothing to argue about. You feed whatever you like.

If you were genuinely interested in dietary conversations, or people feeding roaches off the bathroom floor, then the second half of this entire thread would be completely different.

I've posted what I intended to post. I welcome any further questions from people who are genuinely interested. However, at this point, I've pretty much exhausted all my information, and I'd most likely direct your questions to the Wombaroo company. I'm not really interested in entertaining questions from those looking to pick a fight.

If anyone does ask questions of the Wombaroo company, please come back and post their answers! It would be educational for all of us, and I'm very interested.


Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1240675
03/18/12 10:08 PM
03/18/12 10:08 PM
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Posts: 847
New Jersey
finnessa Offline
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finnessa  Offline
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Posts: 847
New Jersey
You forgot to add in that whole foliage part or are we leaving that out?

Not everyone feeds mealworms for various reasons, from safety issues to nutrition issues. What about other I'll call them creatures because I really don't know what they'd find in Australia but I'm sure it isn't just mealworms or even mealworms at all.


Mommy to
MANY gliders
2 dogs
2 cats
3 turtles
and 4 skin kids.
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1240676
03/18/12 10:11 PM
03/18/12 10:11 PM
Joined: Jul 2009
Posts: 847
New Jersey
finnessa Offline
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finnessa  Offline
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Posts: 847
New Jersey
Alden how was I being argumentative toward you? I have asked questions in which you refuse to answer for whatever reason. I am giving opinions or even offering questions of Beth and not to you. I am not quite sure why you're dodging answers with accusations. I am genuinely interested in the well being of gliders as a whole and could care less to argue with you darling.


Mommy to
MANY gliders
2 dogs
2 cats
3 turtles
and 4 skin kids.
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: finnessa] #1240679
03/18/12 10:16 PM
03/18/12 10:16 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,832
Big Sandy TN
Sherri Offline
Glider Addict
Sherri  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,832
Big Sandy TN
Originally Posted By: finnessa

1)Fruit & Vegetables (supplemented with HPS™ powder) 20g diced Fruit & Veg with 2g of Wombaroo HPS™ (1 level teaspoon) dispersed over it
2)Plain Biscuit (supplemented with HPS™ solution*) 5 g plain Biscuit/Cookie (eg ½ an arrowroot or tea biscuit) with 2 ml of Wombaroo HPS Solution* poured over it.
3)Small Carnivore Food™ 2g (1 level teaspoon) of prepared Wombaroo Small Carnivore Food™ made up as a moist crumble
4) Live Food 1g mealworms, crickets or other invertebrates

I'd say this is a bit more than just

"Mix powder with water, drip on a cookie.

Add carnivore, bugs, fruits/veggies."



Carnivore for one, as we don't have anything really compareable to what they have. Yes you claim that we will be getting it in 2 month's. We shall see about that one. And as for the cookie, well that is a whole nother story isn't it?

If I lived in Australia and was able to get everything over there that this diet calls for then I would say great! But I don't live over there and can't get the same ingredients here so I feel that the diets that we do have here in the United States are doing great for "our" gliders. Have been for many years.

I have no problem with people feeding this diet or any other diet for that matter, but to claim that this one is so simple when in truth it really isn't is just false advertising in my opinion.

People could feed spaghettio's to their gliders with fruits and veggies everyday and I wouldn't care. Doesn't mean that there is a glider diet out there that is perfect. Not even Passwell's Wombaroo HPS.

(please do keep in mind that this diet was not formulated specifically for sugar gliders alone. It is a wide range possum diet to fill the needs of all their "native" possum species)


sherri

Forever home to a wide variety of animals, domestic, farm and exotic.
My passion is my little suggie sweethearts! 731-441-9814


http://www.newbysglidernook.com/index.html
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: finnessa] #1240680
03/18/12 10:17 PM
03/18/12 10:17 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,889
Springfield/Eugene, OR
kitsune Offline
Glider Slave
kitsune  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,889
Springfield/Eugene, OR
Roaches. Mealies. Hornworms. Waxworms. Home grown crickets. Fly larvae. BUGS. Sorry, shall I edit it?

Last edited by kitsune; 03/18/12 10:17 PM.

Beth

mlove Glide free :rbridge: :bb: Dimitri and Tegan :wfb: :rbridge: and right-side up! mlove
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1240682
03/18/12 10:22 PM
03/18/12 10:22 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,889
Springfield/Eugene, OR
kitsune Offline
Glider Slave
kitsune  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,889
Springfield/Eugene, OR
I am sorry--I'm going to leave you ladies to keep picking. My replies are obviously getting nowhere, and I am obviously not being helpful. I'm sorry you feel the need to point out things so peculiar as to the wording or exact simplicity of the diet. Perhaps you should contact Gordon and ask him about these things. I just have no desire to sit here and argue about such bizarre details.


Beth

mlove Glide free :rbridge: :bb: Dimitri and Tegan :wfb: :rbridge: and right-side up! mlove
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1241191
03/20/12 11:47 AM
03/20/12 11:47 AM
Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 43,311
LittleRock, AR USA
KarenE Offline
Owner
KarenE  Offline
Owner

Joined: Mar 2000
Posts: 43,311
LittleRock, AR USA
This thread is being reopened so NEW information can be posted Alden says she has to answer some questions that were asked earlier.

It will stay open as long as it remains a
Diet Discussion leaving any personal issues out of the discussion.

http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/...n_D#Post1240671

http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/...n_D#Post1240676

http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/...n_D#Post1240682

**I only pulled up replies from the end of the thread as examples so don't think there aren't more. While maybe not in their entirety, these particular replies are personal and not discussing the
topic.


The topic of diets is hard enough to discuss because everyone does have their own personal opinion.

We have to ask those be kept out of the thread as well as the DRAMA.


There will be no further warning. The next time this thread is locked it WILL NOT be reopened.


Your Sugar Glider Resource Center
Sugar Glider Help


Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1241209
03/20/12 12:47 PM
03/20/12 12:47 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,832
Big Sandy TN
Sherri Offline
Glider Addict
Sherri  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 3,832
Big Sandy TN
Thank you Karen!


sherri

Forever home to a wide variety of animals, domestic, farm and exotic.
My passion is my little suggie sweethearts! 731-441-9814


http://www.newbysglidernook.com/index.html
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1241247
03/20/12 01:57 PM
03/20/12 01:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
ValkyrieMome  Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
Thank you, Karen.

I received a reply from Mr. Rich today. He answered some of the initial questions the thread sparked. I felt it best if the replies could remain in the same thread.

Note - his replies were blue in my email, but that didn't copy to here. The italics remained, however.

From: Gordon Rich
Date: March 20, 2012

Hi Alden,

I’ve had a quick look at links to the glider forums. Its probably easiest if I just answer any specific questions rather than get involved in the forums. It is important to reiterate that Wombaroo HPS is not promoted as a complete diet, and that our dietary recommendations are simply guidelines based on our long term experience with captive Sugar Gliders. Wombaroo HPS is a very useful and versatile supplement that can be used to boost essential protein, fatty acids, vitamins & minerals in the diet of Sugar Gliders. How it is applied can vary greatly from user to user – if people are happy with their current feeding regime and their animals are healthy then we recommend they stick to what works for them.

Just one point, someone asked me about the Mazuri Insectivore diet, which I said to you looks OK at first glance. At second glance I did notice that the iron levels are quite high in this product (350ppm compared to about 70ppm for Wombaroo Small Carnivore Food and 40ppm for Wombaroo HPS). Now this is not a huge problem unless the Mazuri Insectivore diet is used as a large proportion of the diet which it probably isn’t (I wouldn’t have it at more than 20% of the diet anyway).

I have inserted my answers in blue italics to the questions raised below:

I’ve sent this email from a different address, but if you have any questions please forward them to our usual address: wombaroo@adelaide.on.net

Kind Regards,

Gordon.



From: Kyrie's Mom
Sent: Saturday, 17 March 2012

Hello, Mr. Rich -

I've begun a discussion on two of the American sugar glider forums. If you have time in your day to take a look:
http://www.sugarglider.com/glidergossip/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=41600
http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/...iet#Post1239633

Some questions that I didn't think to ask have already been generated there. I know you are probably very busy and don't have much time to "forum lurk" - so I'll relay some of the questions to you here, in order to summarize. (Sorry if the colors are too confusing to read - I was trying to separate the questions from my comments.)

"I would be interested to know if the Paswell folks had any input into Exotic Nutrition's "Instant HPW", or if they were made aware that Exotic Nutrition is selling repackaged Wombaroo High Protein Supplement with the bee pollen added for making Peggy's recipe for her original HPW Diet." Wombaroo has had no input on Exotic Nutrition’s Instant HPW. Neither are we aware of any repackaging of our products in the US – this is not really a concern for us, so long as it is not being called “Wombaroo”. Once our products have been repackaged we have no legal responsibility for the product.


"If you mix the powder with honey and or green juice, do you omit the water? Do you omit the arrowroot biscuit totally? Again, my gliders love the OHPW (Mr. Rich, here the person is referring to what we call "The Original HPW diet" - this meaning the mix I detailed in my very first email to you, and the one "invented" by Ms. Brewer) and lick it clean so if I had the biscuit, they may not eat all of it." You can make it up to whatever consistency you require. The “green juice” is mostly water so will be quite fluid, whereas honey usually needs to be diluted with water to thin it out. The biscuit we use is simply a vehicle for adding the HPS – you can replace it with another palatable food source.


"What do you moisten the dry food with?"
You can moisten dry food with a 25% (weight per volume) solution of HPS which is approximately 1 part HPS to 3 parts water

'Is Mr. Rich also saying that if your gliders are consuming the OHPW as directed, then the variety of fruits and veggies isn't as big a concern as some make it out to be? My gliders prefer veggies to fruit almost always. They rarely eat ANY fruit that we give them no matter what form we try (smoothies, chopped small, left whole, whatever)." We can’t give recommendations on the OHPW diet as we don’t have a full nutritional breakdown of this diet. As long as any fruits or vegetables are directly supplemented with Wombaroo HPS, then you can be satisfied that the diet is well-balanced.

"Is the implication that bee pollen isn't necessary to add to OHPW?"Once again we can’t comment on the OHPW diet. However the addition of bee pollen to a diet supplemented with Wombaroo HPS is uneccessary.

"So, am I reading it correctly that Mr. Rich recommends sprinkling DRY powder over the fruit and veggies? My concern with this is that my gliders are very very picky and tend to pick and choose what F/V they want to eat each night thus that would be a non measurable amount of powder consumed that way." If you supplement all fruit & veg with Wombaroo HPS then whatever they eat will be adequately supplemented.

"What about gliders that won't eat euc or any type flowers?" Not a real problem as these are largely behavioural enrichments for captive animals rather than dietary requirements. Most people tend to overfeed their gliders so they are not interested in foraging for “real food” anyway!

"So instead of the biscuit or cookie, we can just use honey or fruit juice and give them 2 ml of that?"
Yes

"The 20g of fruits/veggies... how much would that be in tablespoons?" Roughly 2 heaped tablespoons, depending on the density of the fruit/veg in question and how heaped your spoon is. The best way is to weigh it out and you can see for yourself (20g is 0.7 oz) (Honestly, I tried to figure out your conversions using an online program, because I knew this question would be asked. Your directions in one part are 1 part HPS™ powder (25g) into 3 parts warm water (75ml). I'm not sure how to convert what appears to be a weight combined with what is a volume? Sorry - my brain can do the metric conversions usually, but I can't figure out how to get "grams" to "tablespoons"!) You can’t – ones a weight and the other is a volume – just convert the grams into ounces and the ml into fluid oz. This means about 0.88 oz of powder (25g) to 2.5 fluid oz (75ml) of water. It is always useful to initially weigh out a standard measure of powder (ie a tablespoon)to get an idea of how much powder you are using.

I'm very excited that this dialog has begun on the forums. We flounder around about sugar glider diets so much here in the States. We love our little gliders, and everyone wants what is healthy for them! But, not many can agree what that is.

Thank you!
Alden

Last edited by ValkyrieMome; 03/20/12 07:41 PM. Reason: added colors

Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1241295
03/20/12 04:31 PM
03/20/12 04:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,748
New Jersey
JillMarie Offline
Serious Glideritis
JillMarie  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,748
New Jersey
Thank you.


:grey: Bosom Buddy Creations:grey:
^website link wink

Remember that God Loves You!
Re: The Wombaroo High Protein Diet (Part One) [Re: ValkyrieMome] #1241326
03/20/12 06:31 PM
03/20/12 06:31 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
ValkyrieMome  Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
To answer a question sent to me privately:

Per Mr. Rich's comment in his email here: "I have inserted my answers in blue italics to the questions raised below:"

Yes - he did return my email to me with his notes written in after each specific question. This is not something I copied and pasted this way - it is directly out of the email this way.

In my original email to him, the questions were bold and red. My notes on the questions (such as explaining what OHPW means) were in black and regular font. His answers - he put in directly after each question - in blue italic. The colors didn't copy from the email, but the bold and italic fonts did. I don't know why.


Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
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