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Re: wodent wheel [Re: Dancing] #1293711
10/01/12 02:58 PM
10/01/12 02:58 PM
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,827
Southern Virginia
R
rdobbie23 Offline
Glider Addict
rdobbie23  Offline
Glider Addict
R

Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 2,827
Southern Virginia
Ok its been a almost 2 years since I had gliders. I just got to a point that I was ready again, and I got my sweet little Sucre....and WOW sooooo much has changed! And now that I read this, I guess i need to toss the wodent wheel that came in on Friday :-( I do not want anything to happen to him!


*Megan*

Owned by:
4 suggies :leu: Sucre & :rtmo: Bijou
:wfb: Bubbles & :rtmo: Baby Girl

Valley bulldog: Chassis
American Bully: Dink
Doberman: Sheba
American Bully: Grady
Re: wodent wheel [Re: gena] #1293785
10/01/12 07:19 PM
10/01/12 07:19 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 472
Upstate SC
tab Offline
Glider Lover
tab  Offline
Glider Lover

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 472
Upstate SC
Maybe u can get a refund or post it on craigslist and try to sell it to someone that has a Rodent.


Mama to:
:wfb: Crackers, Rocky, Linus
:leu: Olive
:rbridge: Nugget
mlove WinnieFred my poodle , and the dachshunds Hemi, Zach, Piper, Vera, Cupcake, Penny, Faith

I'm not lucky I'm blessed!
Re: wodent wheel [Re: gena] #1293788
10/01/12 07:27 PM
10/01/12 07:27 PM
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 5,336
Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
B
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis
Bourbon  Offline
Serious Glideritis
B

Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 5,336
Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
Jimbo I think you need to re read that thread again as it seems you may have missed something if your response to the link Peggy put up was
Quote:
Thanks Peggy, I've read it before and it's a great example of how "themes" get started on discussion groups.

There is nothing in this thread that points to the wodent wheel as the cause. Someone asks if there is hair on the axle and there's no reply. Nobody bothers to ask if there is a proper axle cover


as both of those questions and more was answered.

Also I wanted to address another point you made earlier you said
Quote:

On these newer wheels, make sure your stand is high enough so a glider riding around on the outside of the wheel does not get slammed into the cage floor, toys, or another glider. The more gliders you have in the cage, the higher the risk of this kind of accident.


I know you have repeated several times that gliders don't run on the outsides of your wheels, but to be honest I have seen them jump into a turning wheel, as well as hold on to the holes as the wheel was spinning.. so now I will ask you... has the wodent wheel also raised the stand for the wheel? I know for a fact that the cruiser has, I know the Raptor has, and I know the fast Track has.. so it would seem if that really is a safety issue that we felt needed to be addressed and have with our wheel, that maybe the wodent should also address it as well.

you said
Quote:

Another example: the chance of injury on a wodent wheel was extremely rare until THIS community can up with idea of putting a PVC pipe over the axle. When the number of these "covers" in use by this community started to get pretty large, the number of accidents **in this community** started to increase substantially.

Meanwhile, among wodent wheel owners who did *not* use this PVC pipe axle cover (which we warned not to use in 2007), accidents remained extremely rare.


Could it maybe possibly be that the accidents increased as more and more gliders began using the open wheels where they had more freedom of movement, but was unable to recreate those same movements freely in the wodent?.. well it seems that new "guards" which was nothing more than cold water pipe were not distributed with new wheels unless someone requested it, they were not sent out to all those 100,000 people that had wheels with safety issues, and when the new inner guard came out, they also were not distributed. they were however available for sale... but only IF you knew there was a safety issue at all. We here online seen the safety issue as one that needed to be addressed, something the wheel manufacturer should have done when the issues arose many years ago. but several years went by before the axle guard was introduced.. and was that done by you? NO.. no it was suggested by Sheila, a glider owner who was real upset about the injuries.

By the way.. your 2000 number is extremely low.. you should find out more about the various wheels, before trying to condemn them.. we as wheel manufacturers and sellers have used all the wheels available..we have critiqued each other, and helped each other make better and safer products for our customers gliders... can you say the same?

Re: wodent wheel [Re: gena] #1295195
10/07/12 04:28 PM
10/07/12 04:28 PM
Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 137
FL
J
jimbo Offline
Joey Member
jimbo  Offline
Joey Member
J

Joined: Mar 2010
Posts: 137
FL
I can see from the emotional responses above this community is more interested in "being right" than getting to the truth. According to this community, exercise wheels for sugar gliders are so completely different they should be excluded from using the global legal standard for measuring safety that all other products are subject to. OK thenÖthat would explain why there was no comments on the 2 main points, that is:

1. If there are 20X more of wheel A than wheel B in use, and if the safety of the wheels is equal, you would expect 20X more accidents with wheel A than wheel B. Counting accidents is not a measure of safety

2. The large increase in accidents inside the community connected to the PVC pipe cover, while at the same time no increase in accidents among those not using the cover

In closing out this chapter, Iíd like to clear up some confusion in the previous comments.

My suggestion a moderator find out the number of wheels sold by other makers was made simply so the other manufacturers might find it OK to supply these numbers to a trusted 3rd party. This person could then report the TOTAL number rather than individual wheel styles, which would maintain privacy. I find it quite interesting the community isn't howling about not knowing these numbers, but I guess it doesn't matter if the real issue is being right rather than understanding the actual safety record.

Iíll repeat again Transoniq says they have sold 100,000+ wheels specifically to people serving the glider community, so itís a good bet most of those are in the glider community. Bourbon, I talked about 200,000 *gliders* using those wheels, based on a (low) estimate of 2 gliders per wheel. I never said we sold 200,000 wheels.

Peggy, nothing has changed at the link you provided, except the owner confirmed there was no hair on the axle. So it seems less likely this was a wheel-related accident and probable a proper axle guard was not in use Ė otherwise, why check a covered axle? Still, nobody pursued these details of the accident, I guess because itís more convenient for the community to just repeat the same old story.

I see nobody decided to comment on why the accident rate in this community is so much higher than elsewhere. Doesn't anybody at least find that interesting and worth discussing? In a previous exchange on this topic:

Question about wodent wheel

other sellers of the wodent wheel indicated no accidents from their customers. As I said previously, the "PVC Pipe" approach used by this community is likely responsible for nearly all the tail de-gloving incidents that have been reported in the past 5 years. Said another way, the problem is not the wheel, itís the HUMANS who tampered with the wheel and changed the design based on a false assumption that was not properly investigated.

As far as working with the manufacturer / correcting problems / improving designs, it was Suncoast who engaged Transoniq in an active discussion about this problem. Understanding that many people outside this community would continue to buy the wheel for their gliders, we were looking for a long-term solution that would PREVENT people from increasing the risk of accident by:

1. Tampering with the wheel design
2. Failing to properly maintain wheels
3. Improperly assembling the wheel

The inner track is the answer to #1 and #2, and a new modification coming soon will address #3. So the implications above that Suncoast does not "care" are simply not valid; weíre trying to solve the actual problems for everyone, like people who cannot afford a much more expensive wheel. Expecting the manufacturer to replace or recall a product when human tampering caused the problem doesn't make any sense.

Meanwhile, some in this community will probably continue to mis-characterize the nature of these problems and rely on a challenged view of history to support their opinions, dragging out contaminated statistics from the "PVC pipe period" to support their case. Just remember those problems were self-inflicted on the community. I can only hope some of these folks will read this discussion and choose to be a bit more even-handed about their commentary. Perhaps a fairer approach would be to use the current safety record for the modification that has been around nearly 2 years now, instead of using years old stats?

For example, we find from the discussion above that the new wheel manufacturers were aware of the safety issue related to stand height and have all made changes to increase stand height. Thatís a good thing, but I donít see people still pointing out this was a dangerous situation or using old statistics to bash those wheels. Why then, are these same people focused on bashing wodent wheel safety using old statistics and ignoring the modifications that have been made? Whatís OK for one wheel is not OK for the others?

Iím not asking people to ďrecommendĒ the wodent wheel; there are lots of reasons people might want a different kind of wheel. What I am asking is people be fair and honest about their safety assessments given the modifications to prevent use of the PVC Pipe covers and actual record of this redesigned product.

As I have said many times before in these discussions, itís not my intent to criticize other wheel designs, in fact, I think theyíre great and a good example of community innovation. All I am looking for is a fair description of all the facts. Wodent wheels may not be your favorite for a whole bunch of reasons, but they are not more "dangerous" than other wheels for sugar gliders when used as intended.


Jimbo, Webmaster
SunCoast Sugar Gliders
http://www.sugar-gliders.com/
Re: wodent wheel [Re: gena] #1295213
10/07/12 06:26 PM
10/07/12 06:26 PM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 472
Upstate SC
tab Offline
Glider Lover
tab  Offline
Glider Lover

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 472
Upstate SC
ok good for u guys u corrected some ur mistakes. Is that the pat on the back u have been looking for???

However I still personally will advise others to not purchase a wodent wheel. I much prefer pee and poo not slung all over my baby.

And did ya ever think we haven't got on the topic of what other communities say bc we are not members of other communities.

I know for a FACT other communities suggest things that I myself would not find safe (bc I happened to run across things by googling).


Mama to:
:wfb: Crackers, Rocky, Linus
:leu: Olive
:rbridge: Nugget
mlove WinnieFred my poodle , and the dachshunds Hemi, Zach, Piper, Vera, Cupcake, Penny, Faith

I'm not lucky I'm blessed!
Re: wodent wheel [Re: gena] #1295424
10/08/12 01:22 AM
10/08/12 01:22 AM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,747
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,747
80 acres of paradise in KS
Also, if the center bar design had been safe to begin with and no accidents had happened, no one would have even suggest the "pvc bar cover" modifications to begin with.

Really, you can try to ignore the past but no one can grow from it. The center bars, covered or not, are a safety issue. That issue was addressed by the addition of the inner track.

That inner track does limit how a glider plays/uses the wheel. We know this because of our observations of how gliders play with/use other wheels that do NOT have that center in them. I don't think that is a "dangerous" thing but it does limit the gliders.

There is still the issue of the cotter pin. Yes, those gliders were injured. It did happen. It IS a safety issue that has yet to be addressed.

The solid track does cause the pee and poop to be flung all over the gliders when they are running on them.

The face of the wodent still is a risk to gliders hanging their heads out and being injured OR being injured while trying to jump in or out while another glider is running on them. Unless people want to have only one glider in the cage while the wheel is in use, there is no safe way to address that other than to take off that style of front face.


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: wodent wheel [Re: gena] #1295441
10/08/12 08:16 AM
10/08/12 08:16 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
Tech Admn
GliderNursery  Offline
Tech Admn

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
Wasn't it Transonic that were either giving/selling an axle cover? (I mentioned this earlier and there was no response to it.) This was before this larger inner piece. It was about the size of CPVC. I'm pretty sure this wasn't the "community", it was the manufacturer's answer to an ongoing problem.

Again I will reiterate that it is not my business to ask the other wheel makers out there how many wheels they have sold. If they choose to tell me, I will happily post them. And from the information that I personally know (oh yeah, I used to be one of those "other" wheel manufacturers), you will be very surprised at how many are out there. wink

I appreciate your comments Jimbo, but from the historic and ongoing issues, I simply cannot recommend a wheel that I personally feel is still dangerous to our sugar gliders.


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: wodent wheel [Re: GliderNursery] #1295483
10/08/12 11:18 AM
10/08/12 11:18 AM
Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,389
Maryland
T
Terry Offline
Serious Glideritis
Terry  Offline
Serious Glideritis
T

Joined: Apr 2012
Posts: 5,389
Maryland
Wow, this is still going?

gena, your question as to whether or not Wodent wheels are safe, has been answered many many times. I hope you have found your way back to this post to review them. Plain & simple truth, Wodent wheels are safe for some small animals, sugar gliders are not one I'd include though as this wheel being safe for. As you can see by the opinion of many who have experienced the dangers to the sugar gliders this wheel has, and being there are several better & safer options, I would only hope you have come to a decision that would best serve your pet gliders.


Jimbo, you are not going to convince the experienced members and owners of sugar gliders that the Wodent Wheel poses no hazard to our sugar gliders anymore than we can convince you to only sell them for rodents, the pets that these wheels are safe for.

Everyone else, your points are well made and make more sense that I couldn't imagine anyone in doubt (other than Jimbo & other's who continue to advertise the sale of this wheel for gliders) that there are indeed valid hazards to these small and wonderful creatures we keep as our own.


Lives with:
1 God
1 dog, (Willow)
1 Sugie, (Ollie)
R.I.P. Lulu (2/28/12-10/13/17)
R.I.P. Skadoosh (2/28/12-3/26/18)
Re: wodent wheel [Re: Terry] #1295486
10/08/12 11:27 AM
10/08/12 11:27 AM
Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 781
Northeast Ohio, USA
Dallie Offline
Glider Guardian
Dallie  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Oct 2010
Posts: 781
Northeast Ohio, USA
Originally Posted By: Terry
Wow, this is still going?

gena, your question as to whether or not Wodent wheels are safe, has been answered many many times. I hope you have found your way back to this post to review them. Plain & simple truth, Wodent wheels are safe for some small animals, sugar gliders are not one I'd include though as this wheel being safe for. As you can see by the opinion of many who have experienced the dangers to the sugar gliders this wheel has, and being there are several better & safer options, I would only hope you have come to a decision that would best serve your pet gliders.


Jimbo, you are not going to convince the experienced members and owners of sugar gliders that the Wodent Wheel poses no hazard to our sugar gliders anymore than we can convince you to only sell them for rodents, the pets that these wheels are safe for.

Everyone else, your points are well made and make more sense that I couldn't imagine anyone in doubt (other than Jimbo & other's who continue to advertise the sale of this wheel for gliders) that there are indeed valid hazards to these small and wonderful creatures we keep as our own.


Terry, Very Well Said! clap


wave Dallie
SpinZone Global

My Gliders: Boo & Bella

"Challenges are what make life interesting; overcoming them is what makes life meaningful."





Re: wodent wheel [Re: Dallie] #1301737
10/29/12 02:13 AM
10/29/12 02:13 AM
Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 78
Wyoming(ten Sleep) USA
Myst369 Offline
Out of Pouch
Myst369  Offline
Out of Pouch

Joined: Oct 2012
Posts: 78
Wyoming(ten Sleep) USA
I am kinda sorry I started all this up again.... I just wanted to know if they were safe, I didn't mean to stir up a hornets nest. Thank you all for the info.


To handle yourself, use your head. To handle animals and others, use your heart.Mom to - :cream: Autumn, :grey: Cloudy, Starman, Ayla, Stitch, :wt: Dani mosaic, :grey: 100% cream het August, Valkyre, and joey Indy.
Re: wodent wheel [Re: gena] #1301742
10/29/12 02:25 AM
10/29/12 02:25 AM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
Tech Admn
GliderNursery  Offline
Tech Admn

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
wink


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: wodent wheel [Re: gena] #1301782
10/29/12 10:52 AM
10/29/12 10:52 AM
Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 472
Upstate SC
tab Offline
Glider Lover
tab  Offline
Glider Lover

Joined: Aug 2012
Posts: 472
Upstate SC
There will always be a hornets nest somewhere lol


Mama to:
:wfb: Crackers, Rocky, Linus
:leu: Olive
:rbridge: Nugget
mlove WinnieFred my poodle , and the dachshunds Hemi, Zach, Piper, Vera, Cupcake, Penny, Faith

I'm not lucky I'm blessed!
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