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Parents of wt's are what? #136665
08/24/06 09:09 AM
08/24/06 09:09 AM

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I have two joeys that have white tip tails. The parents do not. Does this mean both parents are het for wt? The dad has a dad that is a white tip, but the mom's parents are both grays. I'm just curious how that works...

Thanks!

Re: Parents of wt's are what? [Re: ] #136666
08/24/06 09:14 AM
08/24/06 09:14 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
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St. Johns, Florida
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I would assume since the *grandfather, from the fathers side* has a white tip that would make the father a white tip het. I dont understand all the genetics but Im sure one of these brain members on here that do will be along soon! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/roflmao.gif" alt="" />


Peggy
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Re: Parents of wt's are what? [Re: ] #136667
08/24/06 09:29 AM
08/24/06 09:29 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,175
Ontario , Canada
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Well, as the suggie Mom to two WT's with 3 WT joeys from this pair, I honestly cannot answer that.LOL Noone really knows how the genetics for WT work, since 9 times out of 10 WT's are born as a sort of Fluke. both my Zephyyr and Nyx were born to grey/cinni and a gray/gray pair. No signs or knowledge of WT in the past..(Then again with a wild caught pair and a pair from a pet store that is hard to follow anyway)

Being that your male had a WT dad helps - that makes him a WT het but with your female, my assumption (and I could be wayyy off the mark) is that she too is a WT het. Somewhere in there someone in her family makybe had a WT and she just got the gene randomly. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" />

Then again, many WT's are born to gliders with no WT in their past at all, so there is really no way of knowing how it works. Mnay breeders have had a couple of pairs with WT's and have never had a WT joey born yet. I am lucky in that my WT pair, both times they have mated have produced WT's. Now next time around who knows? LOL I may never get WT's again. lol

Now, basically that long winded reply coulkd have been summed up with "Um...Who Knows?LOL" But all the same, congrats on your beautiful WT babies, it's pretty neat to see their lil tails with that tiny spot of pink on the end isn't it? LOL

Amanda <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />


Amanda, Jeff&

A Pomchi named Wickett
A Yorkie named Meeya
A Great Dane named Berlyn
5 Cats Kamorah, Aiko, Mo, Peekaboo, & Alice
Someday Ill have more suggies... frown
2 skin kids - Xander Finlay James March6 2010, and Rohan Kingsley July 5 2011

Re: Parents of wt's are what? [Re: ] #136668
08/24/06 10:48 AM
08/24/06 10:48 AM

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You boys daddy has never had any white tip joeys. He has the wt just dosen't seem to pass it on. At least we know now that he passes on the gene. I have no idea either how this works but I do agree that 9 times out of 10 the wt are a surpirse. We discoved that one of our grays pairs we have after 5 joeys had a wt little girl. That was a shocker to us.

Re: Parents of wt's are what? [Re: RSXTC] #136669
08/24/06 10:54 AM
08/24/06 10:54 AM

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Genetics is so baffling. It is amazing that gliders have all these different traits and different ways they are passed to offspring.

Anyone that has an interest in genetics could certainly make a career out of studying gliders! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

Re: Parents of wt's are what? [Re: ] #136670
08/24/06 02:20 PM
08/24/06 02:20 PM

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I have 3 WT's and they all came from normal colored parents... One of my WT males joeys has went on to produce a WT joey though.

Re: Parents of wt's are what? [Re: ] #136671
08/24/06 06:14 PM
08/24/06 06:14 PM

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</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
Genetics is so baffling. It is amazing that gliders have all these different traits and different ways they are passed to offspring.

Anyone that has an interest in genetics could certainly make a career out of studying gliders! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

U hit it right on the head! :-) That's actually what I'm going to school for and will hopefully soon be able to help answer some of these questions with a little scientific fact to back it up.

Re: Parents of wt's are what? [Re: ] #136672
08/24/06 08:31 PM
08/24/06 08:31 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
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Cleveland, Ohio
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[:"green"]According to the study that Ushuaia did a few years ago, the gliders in Australia actually have a number of subspecies that are area-specific. The Ariel subspecies is from the Northern part of Australia and are ALL white-tips! It is my conjecture that this is where the white-tip gene here in the states has originated from... it is probably a recessive gene that only comes out upon occassion but there would have to be WT somewhere in the past lineage in order for it to show up...


Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders
Re: Parents of wt's are what? [Re: ] #136673
08/25/06 05:47 AM
08/25/06 05:47 AM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 708
Melbourne Australia
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</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
[:"green"]According to the study that Ushuaia did a few years ago, the gliders in Australia actually have a number of subspecies that are area-specific. The Ariel subspecies is from the Northern part of Australia and are ALL white-tips! It is my conjecture that this is where the white-tip gene here in the states has originated from... it is probably a recessive gene that only comes out upon occassion but there would have to be WT somewhere in the past lineage in order for it to show up...

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">

[:"blue"] White tips in sugar gliders are quite common all over Australia. Half my gliders have white tips and they are from southern Australia. I am not sure about the theory that all Petaurus Breviceps Ariels in Northern Australia have white tips but the photos/prints I have seen do not show this to be the case.

If you want to be confused even more, John Gould describes sugar gliders with the original scientific names - Belideus notatus(Stripe-tailed Belideus),Belideus breviceps(Short-headed Belideus), Belideus ariel(Ariel Belideus). Belideus ariel was actually the name that covered all of the sugar gliders in Australia except for the stripe tailed and short headed Belideus. Interesting to see the stripe tailed has a white tip!

They later changed Belideus ariel to Petaurus breviceps which is what we know the sugar glider today.

There are some quite amazing John Gould prints available for those who are interested.


[/]

Re: Parents of wt's are what? [Re: ] #136674
08/25/06 07:51 AM
08/25/06 07:51 AM

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Ok, so IF wt is a recessive gene, it does mean both parents would need to carry the gene in order for the babies to display it. Am I correct on this assumption?
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thanx.gif" alt="" />

Re: Parents of wt's are what? [Re: ] #136675
08/25/06 12:50 PM
08/25/06 12:50 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,788
Cleveland, Ohio
sugarglidersuz Offline
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[:"green"]Marz,
Thanks for the correction... I always want to learn new things!!!


Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders
Re: Parents of wt's are what? [Re: ] #136676
08/25/06 01:16 PM
08/25/06 01:16 PM

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Justine,
Yes.. if it IS recessive.. both parents must carry the gene.. but I don't know if that has been proven the case. Recently someone on this board got a WT out of two standards, however I can't recall if they knew the lineage of those gliders.. there could've been WT in the background they didn't know about.

Also, hasn't someone recently gotten a WT out of a WT and a standard with NO WT in its lineage? This would lead to the assumption it is a codominant gene.. :-)

Re: Parents of wt's are what? [Re: ] #136677
08/25/06 01:39 PM
08/25/06 01:39 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 708
Melbourne Australia
Marz Offline
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</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
[:"green"]Marz,
Thanks for the correction... I always want to learn new things!!!

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
[:"blue"]
Not a problem..it's always interesting to find out new information especially when it comes to origins. There are many unknowns...would be interesting to find out if there are any white tipped gliders in the wild out of Australia.

My white tipped mother has had two sets of twins (all females) and each set has one white tipped baby. It is not uncommon here at all though I do wonder if the white tipped would have a shorter life span in the wild as it's easy to spot our white tipped gliders outside in their cage at night!! Must make for easy prey in the wild.

Cheers Marz[/]

Re: Parents of wt's are what? [Re: ] #136678
08/25/06 01:45 PM
08/25/06 01:45 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 708
Melbourne Australia
Marz Offline
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Melbourne Australia
I have just changed my avatar to one of my white tipped glider females for anyone interested.

Cheers Marz

Re: Parents of wt's are what? [Re: ] #136679
08/25/06 01:50 PM
08/25/06 01:50 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,175
Ontario , Canada
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Posts: 2,175
Ontario , Canada
LOL.. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/grin.gif" alt="" /> That's the thing with the WT genes, noone really knows how it works.. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" /> I'm not sure that there is a correct way to answer this question..LOL <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nopity.gif" alt="" />

The thing I keep coming back to is that not all pairs of WT's (meaning both parents are WT) actually ever produce WT's, but sometimes their normal colored babies have WT's... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ohwell.gif" alt="" /> Eeek. I mean really who knows? It isn't something that can be applied to a punnett square that is for sure. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shakehead.gif" alt="" />

Like with my pair like I said earlier I may never be blessed with more WT's from my WT pair again, and their 3 WT babies though they are 2nd gen WT are not guaranteed to have WT babies if bred either... It's a mess of what if's and could be's... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/help.gif" alt="" /> If ya think about it too long though it has brain pain potential for folks like me who are noooo good at science and genetics <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/shakehead.gif" alt="" />..LOL <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/roflmao.gif" alt="" />

I can think about it and ponder it as long as I want and it just keeps going around and around and around... I never get anywhere.. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/upset.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/roflmao.gif" alt="" />

Amanda <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wave.gif" alt="" />


Amanda, Jeff&

A Pomchi named Wickett
A Yorkie named Meeya
A Great Dane named Berlyn
5 Cats Kamorah, Aiko, Mo, Peekaboo, & Alice
Someday Ill have more suggies... frown
2 skin kids - Xander Finlay James March6 2010, and Rohan Kingsley July 5 2011

Re: Parents of wt's are what? [Re: ] #136680
08/28/06 06:27 AM
08/28/06 06:27 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 208
Columbia SC
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Columbia SC
This is interesting. Maybe it's a gene similar to color-blindness in humans, where it skips a generation?

I've really been wondering how all the color variations have come about in sugar gliders anyway, since the standard is gray. I've always heard that the only way to get color variations in an animal - especially one that is most-always one specific color or pattern - is to inbreed, but somehow I don't think this is the case, especially since it seems to be an extremely bad thing to allow gliders to inbreed.

So where did all the colors come from?

~Bryan


~Bryan
----------------
Re: Parents of wt's are what? [Re: ] #136681
08/28/06 01:45 PM
08/28/06 01:45 PM

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All of this is very interesting. I never knew there were genes that skip a generation. That is weird.

Well thanks everyone for your thought/ideas! It will be interesting to see what is discovered in the next few years!!!


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