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Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: Feather] #1382807
11/25/14 04:08 PM
11/25/14 04:08 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 132
BFE, Texas
6ftGlider Offline OP
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Now I'm really beating myself up over this one. How could I have done all this research and prep only to overlook such an obvious thing. Of coarse sprinkle on top vitamins are a bad idea. In hindsight it's completely obvious. Ridiculous even.

The grand total so far is $1162 and he isn't well yet.

I'm hopeful but also very worried about Momo. I'm hopeful because he's eating like a freaking pig and his ears are perking up.

Should I let him eat as much as he wants or should I keep him from gorging? He ate like a grown up last night.
I'm worried because sometimes he looks way worse with his ears drooping down. He's got soft stool and the vet discharge papers suggested I go to sugarbears.com to learn more about glider diet and nutrition. Yuck. This makes me question everything about whether or not they even knew what they were doing with him or if these meds are appropriate.

Diagnosis: Malnutrition, hypocalcemia, hypoglycemia.

I have 3 meds that I'm supposed to give him morning and night and one that's only in the morning.

Here are the meds:

-Calcium Glubionate This is a calcium supplement by mouth twice daily for 30 days. Both doses I've given him of this he spazzes out a min or two later. Jumps suddenly like he was being chased and after maybe 20 seconds of trying to keep him from hurting himself he calms back down as if it didn't happen. Also he hates this one but licks all the others.

-Clavamox Antibiotic twice day for 7 days.

-Metronidazole antibiotic. 2 times a day for 7 days.

-Famotidine anti-ulcer medicine?? They didn't say anything about him having ulcers once a day for 5 days.

She said they did a fecal and he did have some bacteria (sporelated rods?) which is what the Metronidazole was for. Also if the diahrea keeps up she said she would take him off the Clavamox.

Activity: Momo should have strict exercise restriction. He should be kept in a small cage by himself. Do not allow him to run, jump, play, or climb. This is the most crucial time of his recovery, and if he's allowed to over-exert, he could potentially utilize all of his calcium stores and suddenly die.

diet: Continue to offer Momo his sugar glider diet every 3-4 hours throughout the day. Continue to offer him solid foods to try and transition him to an adult diet. (he is on adult diet) Sugar gliders are omnivorous - they should eat insects (or another protein source) in addition to fruits and vegetables. Fruits alone are not a complete diet for sugar gliders. We recommend that the majority of Momo's diet should be a pelleted diet that is formulated for sugar gliders. Some of the diets that we recommend include NutriMax (www.vetspride.com), Glide-R-Chow ([non_supported_site]), or Mazuri's insectivore diet. The pelleted diet should make up about 75% of Momo's diet. Momo can receive fresh fruits and vegetables, as well as occasional insects, such as mealworms as a snack.

I have modified one of my pj shirts to have a pouch built in and I'm keeping him there except for the few hours I sleep. I sewed a fleece "floor" last night that is going across the small cage to make it 2 levels so he doesn't have much fall room just in case. When I woke up a bit ago he was sleeping on the floor not in the pouch frown . I'm glad to have him home but I'm still so worried about him.

What can I do about how ratty he is? The picture does not show, but he is poopy and crusty all over. Certain spots look like they are wet, but they are dry and crusty and look very uncomfortable. The hair is stiff like someone who used too much hairspray in the late 80's early 90's. He tries to groom himself but it looks like too big of a job. Is it okay to bath him myself with a warm wet rag or something?

Last edited by Feather; 11/25/14 05:51 PM. Reason: Removed the medication dosages ~Feather~
Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider] #1382816
11/25/14 06:06 PM
11/25/14 06:06 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,796
Wisconsin
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Hi,

So glad to hear your little one is doing better. I am glad that isn't my vet bill, but I have had higher bills than that with some of the rescues that come through here.

If you click on the word diet it will take you to the diet database. There are several good diets out there that may fit your needs.

I, myself, feed HPW Plus. It is simple and you can use a wide variety of fruit and vegetables. With the HPW Plus you purchase the powder and you add your own honey, bee pollen, eggs and water.

You can learn more about HPW Plus at: Critterlove.com

Just so you know the Smart HPW on the website your vet gave you is HPW Complete.

Keep us posted on your little ones progress. He is a cutie.


Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Mister Peanut & Big Mack
Fur-Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Cho, Toothless, Maverick & Maharet :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ, Light Fury, Madison & T'Pring :rtmo:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker, Khayman and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:

Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider] #1382824
11/25/14 06:57 PM
11/25/14 06:57 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 132
BFE, Texas
6ftGlider Offline OP
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Thanks. I have been through all the diet info. I am either going to do BML or OHPW. The only reason I even tried the TPG diet is because they came on this diet and all seemed well as far as looks and weight go. I might do the BML for now because I probably can't get my hands on HPW till after Thanksgiving and I can have BML tonight.

Since there was bacteria found, should I keep him away from the others or can I assume they already have it too? I am taking the first vet appointment I can get to take the colony in so he can do fecals on whoever he wants to. We are scraping by now as far as funds go though so it might be next week before that happens.

Sometimes he looks great and sometimes he looks real bad. He looks like 2 different gliders.

Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider] #1382831
11/25/14 08:28 PM
11/25/14 08:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 132
BFE, Texas
6ftGlider Offline OP
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I've had OHPW in my head this whole time, but now that I'm looking back over them, I actually meant the HPW Plus. We are doing the BML for right now starting tonight. Hopefully he will like it.

Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider] #1382832
11/25/14 09:03 PM
11/25/14 09:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
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Wisconsin
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If he has the bacteria the whole colony is exposed to it.

Have you put him back in with them, they will help keep him warm and groom him, he is still just a baby.

If they accept him back I would put him back with them.


Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Mister Peanut & Big Mack
Fur-Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Cho, Toothless, Maverick & Maharet :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ, Light Fury, Madison & T'Pring :rtmo:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker, Khayman and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:

Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider] #1382834
11/25/14 09:06 PM
11/25/14 09:06 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 132
BFE, Texas
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Thank you for all the help Kimberley. smile I will try him out with them after meds.

Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider] #1382836
11/25/14 09:18 PM
11/25/14 09:18 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 132
BFE, Texas
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The vet said I should keep him in a small cage by himself. So I'm a bit worried about putting him in that big cage. Should I sew a floor divider like I did for the other cage so it's not so tall? I've had him in a pouch built into my shirt up against my chest. I'm supposed to be trying to feed him once every 3-4 hours.

Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider] #1382837
11/25/14 10:00 PM
11/25/14 10:00 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
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Wisconsin
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Do you have a small hospital cage, like a small bird cage that you could put him in?

Does he play? or does he mostly sleep?

A small cage you could wrap in fleece to keep it warm. Otherwise you may want to make a home made incubator out of a plastic storage box.


Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Mister Peanut & Big Mack
Fur-Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Cho, Toothless, Maverick & Maharet :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ, Light Fury, Madison & T'Pring :rtmo:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker, Khayman and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:

Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider] #1382840
11/25/14 10:29 PM
11/25/14 10:29 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,800
St. Johns, Florida
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St. Johns, Florida
This was posted on another thread by Shelly
Originally Posted By: GliderNursery
What we have to take into consideration is that a large part of "published" information regarding diets is by Dr. Brust. Therefore, the references that vets have are going to be those that he recommends. Most of our homemade diets are not in any of these publications and vets don't know much about them. Again, they are going from their reference materials.

I'm seriously hoping to get better information out there with the Diet Study.

With that being said, it is entirely possible to have a calcium deficiency on a diet that requires sprinkling of vitamins on top of their food. This is a huge reason I personally do not recommend TPG diet, I don't condone the "sprinkle method" for any diet plan.

So my point is don't panic and run from a vet that is going to promote a pellet diet and Smart HPW. Not to say that I agree or disagree with their recommendations, but remember they are going from their reference materials, not from personal experience, nor are they in the glider community to know/learn about the other diet plans available.

I hope that you get a firm diagnosis for your little one. Please keep us posted on what you find.


I have never recommended the 'sprinkle method' as you just cannot be for certain that the gliders are going to get what they need.

If you put in an order for HPW Plus make a note in the note box it is for you and I will be sure to get it out A.S.A.P.


Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love� Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: Srlb] #1382843
11/25/14 11:09 PM
11/25/14 11:09 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 132
BFE, Texas
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I do have a small bird cage that I have been using for him but I've mainly had him in the pouch in my shirt. He's not doing well right now. Very downward ears and some twitching fits where he tucks in real tight here and there. I noticed earlier that his cloaca was poofed out a bit and I rubbed around it with a warm wet cloth and he made a big long soft bowl movement. Not runny but soft and continuous. Then the same thing a few minutes ago... swollen cloaca and warm cloth and potty. He snaps alert afterwards and pops up with a where am I look. His cloaca looks more normal after also.

Thanks Peggy, but my wife already got the BML stuff on the way home. I will be trying the HPW Plus after next payday most likely.

Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider] #1382844
11/25/14 11:11 PM
11/25/14 11:11 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
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BFE, Texas
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I was thinking about putting mama in his little cage with him for a bit to see how she acts. I am afraid to put him in that big cage with the colony.

Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider] #1382851
11/26/14 12:39 AM
11/26/14 12:39 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 132
BFE, Texas
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This is my little hospital cage I have for him. I am putting some fleece across it now and I have the heater cranked in the bedroom.

Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider] #1382855
11/26/14 08:07 AM
11/26/14 08:07 AM
Joined: Jan 2008
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Wisconsin
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Momma glider would take care of him, move his sibling too as he still needs momma.

They would also help keep him warm.


Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Mister Peanut & Big Mack
Fur-Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Cho, Toothless, Maverick & Maharet :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ, Light Fury, Madison & T'Pring :rtmo:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker, Khayman and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:

Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider] #1382890
11/26/14 02:35 PM
11/26/14 02:35 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
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BFE, Texas
6ftGlider Offline OP
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Well it didn't quite work out like that. I put Momo on the floor of the big cage while everyone was up last night and watched for a minute. All 3 adults started grooming him over like crazy and right when I thought "oh this is great" mom started lunging at him and swatting him like a cat. He balled up and started crabbing in a very tense posture. She just seemed mean on him all the sudden. I pulled him right back out of there. Maybe I should have waited till day time to try to reintroduce him. They are 8 weeks OOP now so I figured they would be okay. It's not ideal for sure, I would like them both to be in there a bit longer, but they are both eating and Momo really needs his bro at least. Well that was my feeling about it anyway.

Last night Aang had lost another gram. He lost one the other night and then he stayed the same the next night, then last night he went down one more. Aang was 50 the other night and now he's 48 so I decided to pull him out and make sure both of them get a lot of food. Was that a mistake? I hate for Momo to be alone and I can't put him back with mama.

We are taking both of them back to the vet in just a bit. I want fecal and bacteria culture done on Aang so we can get a quicker start if he's about to go through the same as Momo.

I wish so bad that mom wouldn't have gotten mean on him like that. Poor guy. His feelings were very hurt when I got him back out away from mom. frown

Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider] #1382892
11/26/14 04:09 PM
11/26/14 04:09 PM
Joined: Aug 2014
Posts: 1,816
Longview, Texas
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Longview, Texas
Awww the poor baby. frown

Good idea getting a vet check on Aang. Since the colony is rejecting him, I personally don't think it's a bad idea to have the brothers together unless you plan to sell Aang, then you may want to have another glider live with him if you are able.


Pibble pup Jenson jump Glide free: Smoke (6/16/15) and Zoey (10/2/15) :rbridge:
Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider] #1382894
11/26/14 04:28 PM
11/26/14 04:28 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 132
BFE, Texas
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Well scratch that. Between the vet and me we decided to go Saturday unless things get worse. Momo is about the same but he's put on some weight from all that pigging out. I put Aang back in with the colony before it was too late. I think I'll just let them have long hangouts in my shirt pouch or the little cage. Aang is still looking very lively and didn't really like being moved and I don't want him stressing out because that can make things worse. We were supposed to go Saturday anyway because the dr wanted to see Momo for a 5-7 day follow up.

I have it about 78 (sweaty yuck) in my room where his cage is and he is up against me in my shirt pouch with my hand over him most of the time, so hopefully he's warm enough. If he pulls through like we're hoping for we're gunna be best friends. lol

I got mom out for a little treat a little bit ago in the bathroom and tried to show her Momo again while it was sleepy time. She nipped him on the leg. I don't think I'll be adding him back to the colony after all because they don't want to have him and it'll be hard getting him back in later because they are breeding. I will need another friend for him or maybe I'll keep his bro too and just neuter them both. We'll see what happens.

Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider] #1382909
11/26/14 05:57 PM
11/26/14 05:57 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
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Wisconsin
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Mom may sense something is up with him, he probably smells different after his stay at the vet hospital.

Please keep us posted on the little guys progress.


Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Mister Peanut & Big Mack
Fur-Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Cho, Toothless, Maverick & Maharet :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ, Light Fury, Madison & T'Pring :rtmo:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker, Khayman and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:

Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider] #1383118
11/29/14 12:32 AM
11/29/14 12:32 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
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BFE, Texas
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Well today is not as bright. We haven't been able to get him to eat more than a lick or two and he's had several less severe seizures. He will freeze up and his eyes start squinting and opening rapidly and sometimes he does the eating air thing.

This is so sad. I am about emotionally spent now. I feel so bad because we can't afford to put him in the hospital again. We have a check up for him tomorrow morning and we are also taking Aang to be checked out, but he seems just fine. Momo lost some more weight and he's barely been alert today except for this morning he tried desperately to groom himself.

I wish I could help him. frown I thought things were going so well until today. He looks like he did when we took him in last week.

Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider] #1383130
11/29/14 05:14 AM
11/29/14 05:14 AM
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 3,071
u.s.a.
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I hope the vet gave u meds to give him home it takes a few days for the meds to work when gliders are sick I would go to another vet that is glider knowledgeable

Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider] #1383137
11/29/14 09:40 AM
11/29/14 09:40 AM
Joined: Feb 2014
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BFE, Texas
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Yes I have been giving him meds for about a week. This is heartbreaking. frown

Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider] #1383138
11/29/14 09:41 AM
11/29/14 09:41 AM
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Wisconsin
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Have you offered him any yogurt. I would use Yoplait original. Nothing with artificial sweeteners.


Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Mister Peanut & Big Mack
Fur-Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Cho, Toothless, Maverick & Maharet :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ, Light Fury, Madison & T'Pring :rtmo:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker, Khayman and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:

Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider] #1383139
11/29/14 09:49 AM
11/29/14 09:49 AM
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Posts: 132
BFE, Texas
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No I haven't. Except for a few minutes here and there, he is pretty much frozen when he's not having a seizure. My wife finally got him to eat a few licks in the middle of the night but then he's right back out of it. By out of it I mean limp and not moving, but his eyes are always open. He doesn't respond to anything. When he is alert for a minute or two he looks like he's wondering how he got here and we get him to eat a little and then he's out of it again.

Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider] #1383142
11/29/14 10:06 AM
11/29/14 10:06 AM
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BFE, Texas
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We are leaving for the vet in a few minutes. We'll see what they say. Wish Momo some luck.

Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider] #1383143
11/29/14 10:09 AM
11/29/14 10:09 AM
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Wisconsin
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Sending you prayers for your little one.


Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Mister Peanut & Big Mack
Fur-Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Cho, Toothless, Maverick & Maharet :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ, Light Fury, Madison & T'Pring :rtmo:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker, Khayman and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:

Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider] #1383152
11/29/14 12:16 PM
11/29/14 12:16 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
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North Central Ohio
hug2


Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider] #1383182
11/29/14 08:10 PM
11/29/14 08:10 PM
Joined: Mar 2014
Posts: 742
Delaware
M
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Delaware
6Ftglider I hope all doing well and he pulls though I not sure how well I could handle one of the girls getting sick as I never really got attached to much in the form of animals ( until I got into gliders) I always love my snakes and gliders are the same now), I may become a total wreck if I lose one of the girls.

I do need to see this shirt with pouch in it I want to make a few ( out of work shirts) so I don't have to worry as much about the girls in the pouch flopping around since it hangs by my neck. Heck these might be something to market to glider people. lol I know I get a couple ( but I want the pouch higher up on my chest( when the pouches are low they feel like I bouncing the girl around to much do to the way I walk with my Cerebral palsy


Freya, Leeloo, :grey:
Momo :plat:
Marshmallow, Misha :leu:
Euro, Peso :rtmo:
Waffles :cream:
Kahless :rtmo:

rehomed and missed Sasha, Sammi, Elda,
:rbridge: Sterling , Vino
:rbridge: Muffin our first true fur master
Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider] #1383183
11/29/14 08:12 PM
11/29/14 08:12 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
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Shelly

Don't sacrifice quality information for convenient information.


Glider Nursery

Sugar Glider Foundation


Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider] #1383186
11/29/14 08:38 PM
11/29/14 08:38 PM
Joined: Feb 2014
Posts: 132
BFE, Texas
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BFE, Texas
I knew that someone made them but I didn't have time for that so I just rolled my own. I didn't need a zipper because Momo didn't move around while he was sick.

Momo was put to sleep. She said it didn't seem there is much hope and we agreed that it'd be best for me to put him out peacefully and to know what is wrong to be sure my colony is okay. They are doing a gross necropsy there and preparing samples for me to send to the sugar group for histo. We couldn't get Aang to use the potty so she told me I can refrigerate a poo when he goes and bring it by when we come through next weekend.

This has been a hard time and I'm glad he's resting now. I feel guilty for not making the call last week. I am glad that we got to be close when he wasn't out of it, but that also made this harder.

Sleep peacefully little Momo.

Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider] #1383188
11/29/14 08:50 PM
11/29/14 08:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,796
Wisconsin
Feather Online sleep
Administrator
Feather  Online Sleep
Administrator

Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 13,796
Wisconsin
I am so very sorry for your loss. May you find peace and comfort in your memories of this little one.

Glide Free Little Momo :rbridge:


Kimberley
Feathers-Sweetie, Mister Peanut & Big Mack
Fur-Guinan, Mr. Spock, T'Mir, Cho, Toothless, Maverick & Maharet :bb: T'Pol, Elizabeth & Curzon :wfb: TY, TJ, Light Fury, Madison & T'Pring :rtmo:
Forever in my heart, Gizmo, Tucker, Khayman and the rest of my babies over the :rbridge:

Re: My joey is dying... what to do [Re: 6ftGlider] #1383190
11/29/14 08:57 PM
11/29/14 08:57 PM
Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
GliderNursery Offline
Tech Admn
GliderNursery  Offline
Tech Admn

Joined: Sep 2007
Posts: 20,093
North Central Ohio
I'm so sorry! hug2


Shelly

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