Well, I had to bring Cricky to the vet's today because on Sunday he started going in tight circles every time he came out of his pouch. Upon close observation, my hubby and I noticed that he was tucking his hind legs under his belly and wasn't moving his right leg as much as the left (which was also limited)... Our first reaction was "Oh no! HLP!... but how can that be? He's on BML now...???" Just to be safe, I started giving him Neocalglucon and kept a close eye on him. Yesterday morning, I noticed that he was turning in even tighter circles and his eyes were getting a bit droopy... so I called my vet's office for an appointment, only to find out that she's out of town until Friday. By yesterday afternoon, he was starting to look even more lethargic... so I called the vet's office that's in Akron (an hour away) and made an appointment for this morning. By this morning, he was curled into a fetal position, slightly dehydrated and both his eyes and ears were droopy... definitely NOT good signs of his health... I gave him 2 cc's of Pedialyte via oral syringe and then drove to the vet's office with trepidation and lots of prayer. He was seen by Dr. Christal Pollock - whom I've not met before. She asked LOTS of questions and did a very thorough examination of him, after which she determined that it was probably NOT HLP but... She believes it is either a middle ear infection OR neurological damage... She did a neurological examination and was not able to eliminate the possibility of neurological damage. She gave him sub-q fluids with Vitamin B complex for the dehydration. For now, she prescribed continuation of the Neocalglucon (just for precautionary measures), plus an antibiotic - SMZ TMP, a.k.a. Sulfa-trimethoprim (in case it is an ear infection), plus MetaCam (for muscle relaxant and pain)... and she wants me to force-feed him the BML mixture 2-3 times a day/night plus Pedialyte 2-3 times a day for the next 2-3 days. OY! I'll try to get pictures of him later when my hubby gets home, but for now Cricky's sleeping peacefully with Pika.
Her theory about the possible neurological damage is that it may be a case of toxicity of some sort... Pika just was treated for similar symptoms about 3 weeks ago and is doing okay now, but is still showing some signs of neurological damage - she has a motor tick of her head that hasn't gone away, although the circling has stopped... Nothing in their environment has changed that I'm aware of, so I can't figure out what could be the cause of all of this...
~~~~~~~~ Edited to add photo attachment. This is a picture of Cricky a few hours after coming home from the vet's office. Notice his droopy ears & eyes...
Suz, check ALL the toys they are around. Not only in their cage but also those they can get to when they are out of cage. You dont have any of those wind spinners or anything like it around do you? That is my first thought when the word toxic is brought up with what I went through with Spike.
Awww Suz I am sorry to hear this our prayers go out for you, Cricky and Pika. He's in the best hands he could be in IMHO. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />
With more than one showing similar symptoms, I'm inclined to agree with the vet's assesment. Check EVERYthing...including taking stock of laundry supplies (like a stain remover that may not have rinsed out well enough) and anything that may have been on yours or another's clothing they could have been exposed to.
I'm so sorry this is happening <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> Let us know as you check possibilities off, and I think of more I'll post. I hope your baby starts feeling better!
Jen/Colin Commander Riker 12 16 02-10 04 12 you will be FOREVER missed Sinbad, Gabby, Baby, and Alley
Hum, just reading the post reminds me of Princess. Princess had a suspected heart problem and a neuro problem that was most likely a stroke. My thoughts and prayers are with you and your baby, Please keep us updated. Angie
Re: Ear Infection or Neurological Damage???
#148545 09/21/0603:00 AM09/21/0603:00 AM
<img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/upset.gif" alt="" />Aw, Suz! Great big hugs to you and Cricky. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> Please know that our thoughts and prayers are with you for her to make a speedy and complete recovery. Please keep us up to date with her progress.
Re: Ear Infection or Neurological Damage???
#148546 09/21/0606:50 AM09/21/0606:50 AM
[:"green"]Thanks to everyone for your input, hugs & prayers... I'll be leaving for Kentucky (for an aunt's funeral) in about an hour or so. Cricky & Pika will be going with me due to the meds & force-feeding. The rest of my clan is staying home with my hubby & 2 sons. When I take him back to my regular vet for follow-up next week, I'll ask her about the possibility of stroke. Although I don't think that's what it is with both Pika & Cricky having similar symptoms, I'm not going to rule it out until I talk to her.
The only thing that I can think of that may have affected them is their mealies. I order live mealies and freeze them immediately. The last batch I ordered is now about 3 months old - do you think they could have gone bad even though they were in the freezer? I'm worried about possible Aflatoxins... Maybe they were just slightly tainted at this point and since Pika & Cricky are the oldest, they're the ones that were affected??? I don't know, I'm just grasping at straws here. The vet yesterday did ask about whether or not I have cats. I do have 2 of them. I asked her what difference that makes and she said that they may have been exposed to a toxin that cats can sometimes be carriers of (??? she had a word for it, but my brain is mush right now and for the life of me, I can't remember what it is... it started with "hypo----"???). Since Pika & Cricky's cage is in our bedroom, which is where the cats are most of the time, I think this is a strong possibility also. Again, there are other cages in my room, but Pika & Cricky are my "senior" gliders at about 12 & 11 years old so... <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" />
I've attached a picture now to my first post... you can see Cricky in that picture if you're interested...
sue as u no ive learned the hard way. always have a urine culture and sensitivity done and direct fecal with cytology to rule out bacteria. i dont think its from the mealies but it might be a bacteria. even from them the c and s will let u know. im a firm beleiver in those test first and utmost, even my vets in australia advise these first hand before others. but she must be off the meds when this is done otherwise the bacteria dont show up. if u could take her off 3 days for them to get out of her system this would work. otherwise i would try baytril its good your giving xtra calcium at this time because bacterias can rob them of calcium. so keep it up, prayers to jannali's grandparents.
Re: Ear Infection or Neurological Damage???
#148548 09/22/0608:20 AM09/22/0608:20 AM
Suz, I'm so sorry to hear about Cricky. You'll be in our prayers. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> I have heard several cases of infants being infected with toxins from cats. The toxins is in their waste. I actually know some one whose newborn baby died from the cat toxins. For this reason I have never kept a cat inside the house. If they are harmful to babies they can definately be harmful to gliders and even more so due to how tiny a glider is. I hope that you can find the cause. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />
Suz.. In the past few months, I've had a dog that we almost put down. He was acting exactly like you described the glider acting.
When we took him to the vet, I asked about deep ear infection. The vet "looked" at his ears and said they look fine. She then told us that she believed he had a brain tumor. (which would be uncurable if so and he should probably be put down) At my insistance, she gave us antibiotic for him although she said it wouldn't help. She wanted us to take him to another vet (a VERY expensive vet) and have an MRI done. (about $600!). My husband decided to give the antibiotics a chance first.
Now, 2 months later and you can not tell there was ever anything wrong with the dog. I'm glad we didn't put him down like was suggested. It was touch and go for a while though. Since all other tests ruled out everything else, I just have to go with my gut instincts that told me that it was indeed a deep inner ear infection. After all, a vet can only "look" so deep into an dogs ear.
While I wouldn't suggest not looking for other causes, if it is an ear infection, the antibiotics should really help, if not clear it up. Just keep an eye on her and please keep us posted.
620-704-9109 Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.
I could have missed the pain But I'd of had to miss the dance
The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
I think it is unlikley that this is the desease passed on from cats. Cats only carry this desease if they eat raw meat. I had similar questions when I bread Burmese cats. the vet said it is very rare to contract and can only be passed on if the cats eat raw meat or catch rodents etc. You would need direct contact with the litter tray or through a scatch. This is some info I found on a web sight.
Taxoplasmosis is a paasite found in rats, mice, pigs, cows, sheep, chicken, birds and is shed in the feces of infected cats. The disease, transmitted to humans by handling contaminated meat, cat litter, or soil, can cause cold-like symptoms and may last from 1 to 12 weeks with little to no lasting effects on most people. However, if a pregnant woman gets the disease, it can be transmitted to the fetus causing possible brain or eye defects. Health officials report that most infections result from eating undercooked meat, not from cats.
Animals that start walking in cirles is usually a sign of some type of brain damage like a stroke. This sounds like it is more likely to be the case. Good luck with your little one!
I don't understand though, some are saying stroke symptoms, but if that's the case, what's the change of both of them having a stroke the same time??? It's got to be something else, I'm thinking, but WHAT is the question. All I can say for now, is thank GOD they are with an experienced, loving owner right now Our thoughts are with you and those precious suggies. Please continue to keep us updated Many SUGGIE HUGGIES to you!!!
I'm sorry it took so long to get back on here to update everyone on Cricky's condition. This is the first chance I've had to come on GC in over 2 weeks. First I had to go to Kentucky for a funeral and then I had major surgery last Monday. I can't be on the 'puter for long, but felt the need to come on and update everyone about Cricky. He is doing somewhat better in that his eyes and ears are perky again and his appetite is back to normal. However, he still goes in tight circles and tends to curl into a fetal position most of the time when in his pouch or being held. He will tightly hold his two back feet together and grasp my thumb with his hands. It is sad to watch him try to negotiate the cage with the constant circling. He will try to get where he's going but can't go in a straight line, so he circles and circles and circles until he gets there. He just completed a second course of antibiotics (this time it was Clavamox), so I really doubt that it's an ear infection at this point. Pika, his cage mate, is completely back to her normal state. For her, I think it was possibly an ear infection, but really don't know for sure.
Thanks to everyone for your thoughts about his condition. Again, I'm sorry it took so long to post an update on him...
could it be inner ear damage or an electrolite imbalance as maybe they are trying to compensate by going in circles to get from point a to b. i hear some people use pedialyte or gatorade which is high in minor nutrients and electrolites. i don't know if it is safe but someone would know for sure. please don't take idea just trying to help and pulling for your babies!
I thought only cats carried and got toxoplasmosis..
isnt that the infection thats transmitted to pregnant women or something?
A few years back I had a glider who acted like that too..and I spent forever trying to hydrate her and what not..but she was really really bad...even her nose was blue..meaning she wasnt getting enough oxygen which didnt make sense..but anyway I brought her to the vet and they said it was nuerological damage and they tried giving her antibiotics, but within an hour of me leaving she passed away.
I still to this day had no idea what caused this and I pray your little baby turns out okay
Re: Ear Infection or Neurological Damage???
#157935 10/16/0609:50 AM10/16/0609:50 AM
Well, Cricky is in his last days with us, I'm afraid. It now appears that he has been having a series of strokes. He was doing better for awhile and I thought he was coming out of the danger zone, but mid-week last week he went downhill again, and very quickly. He has lost a lot of weight - he's now only 79 grams (he was 88 grams just a week ago). His ears and eyes are drooping again. He's almost constantly curled into a fetal position. He's not eating or drinking on his own anymore. I have been force-feeding him since Friday and giving him Pedialyte to keep him hydrated. He's now back on MetaCam for pain management. I have an appointment to bring him in to see Dr. West tomorrow, but my gut feeling is that we'll end up euthanizing him. I can't see continuing to allow him to suffer needlessly. He is obviously in a lot of pain and with the inability to eat or drink on his own, I have to ask myself if I'm keeping him alive for his sake or mine. At this point, it seems more for my sake and that's just not fair to him. This is a very difficult decision for me to make and I hope that all of you will understand why I had to make it. If Dr. West has any hope of good, positive improvement, then I won't have him euthanized, but I just don't think that's the case at this point...
Edited to add two pictures of Cricky that I just took...
Suz, I am very sorry you are both going through this, I am in tears reading this. I know when we went through this with Princess it was so heartbreaking. God sent his angels to take her to the bridge before I had to make the decission you are having to do. My prayers are with you and you baby, and I know you will do what you feel is best for Cricky, even though its hard for your heart. If you need us, we all are here for you. Thank you for helping the gliders, its not allways an easy job and the emotions that go with it can take a toll on us all. Angie
Re: Ear Infection or Neurological Damage???
#157952 10/16/0610:35 AM10/16/0610:35 AM
Angie, As you know, Cricky was one of my rescue gliders that I got almost 4 years ago. I had no idea what I was getting into at the time that I took him & Pika in and it has been a long, hard row to hoe. But I wouldn't trade any minute of it because they have become such sweet gliders over time. It took a lot of patience at first - Cricky was a lunger and a pit-bull biter when I got him. But for the past 3 years he has gotten sweeter & sweeter... I'm going to miss him when it's time for him to cross the Rainbow Bridge, but I've been blessed with 4 wonderful years, so I can't complain...
So sorry Suz. You certainly did everything you could and I know first hand what it takes to do the whole forcing fluids and food over a weekend like that. However, I didn't have to do it while trying to recover from major surgery too! You are an amazing glider mom.
I hadn't read this thread in a while, but just so you know, I think the cat toxin you're thinking of is histoplasmosis, not toxoplasmosis. We sometimes see scars in the back of people's eyes that have a characteristic look to them and without having seen it when it was an active infection, we call it "Presumed Ocular Histoplasmosis Scarring." I could be wrong, but I think it's more of a bird thing than cat, but cats can be carriers. Toxoplasmosis produces similar scars but usually in a different area of the retina. I think toxo is the one kids sometimes pick up from puppies and playing in/eating dirt.
Last night, Cricky decided to start eating on his own again. Although he is still not grooming himself, his ears and eyes are alert and perky. Based on these facts, Ed, my husband, has decided to hold off on euthanization. We are going to be weighing Cricky daily and checking on him throughout each day to make sure he is still eating and drinking on his own. I don't know if this is a temporary reprieve or not, but please keep Cricky in your prayers...