Sugar Glider Community Calendar

Please click here to see larger view
Articles
More coming soon!!
Today's Birthdays
jendetta
Member Spotlight
KarenE
KarenE
LittleRock, AR USA
Posts: 43,249
Joined: March 2000
Show All Member Profiles 
Last 10 Posts
It's CAKE TIME !!!!
by Ladymagyver. 05/10/21 07:34 AM
Hi I’m New!
by Feather. 05/03/21 08:30 PM
Bonding time - Together or individual?
by Feather. 04/27/21 09:27 PM
Cloaca irritated? Bladder infection?
by Feather. 04/27/21 09:25 PM
Critter Nation Shelf Pan/Tray Replacement
by Ladymagyver. 04/26/21 11:24 AM
Questions on neuter after care
by cookielover. 04/25/21 08:36 PM
Scratching / Swiping at Mouth
by Feather. 04/24/21 11:51 PM
Vet Visit
by Shalena. 04/23/21 10:22 PM
Difference between fecal smear and float
by KarenE. 04/21/21 09:48 AM
Google+

Facebook
Join Us On Facebook
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Hand Raising vs. Supplement Feeding a New Joey #212731
02/04/07 01:14 PM
02/04/07 01:14 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,788
Cleveland, Ohio
sugarglidersuz Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
sugarglidersuz  Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,788
Cleveland, Ohio
Quite often, when a joey is not doing well and there are some signs of possible rejection, the question is brought up as to whether to hand raise or simply supplement feed the joey. On Friday, I was faced with this dilemma myself. Coobah & Carina's joeys (twin boys) came oop on Thursday, 2/01/07. They appeared somewhat smaller than usual for Carina's joeys and so I was a bit concerned but not alarmed. On Friday, after attending a funeral in the morning, I got home just before noon and checked on the joeys right away. Sadly, I found one of the boys already dead and cold in the pouch, simply being ignored by Coobah and Carina. The surviving twin was crying but it was a weak hissing sound instead of the normal, strong joey cry I am used to hearing. I took him out of the pouch and looked him over. He appeared more wrinkly than he should and was in the beginning stages of dehydration. So, what to do? Supplement or pull completely? I immediately started giving him Pedialyte and struggled to get him to drink a few drops. For the first two hours, I continued to offer him Pedialyte every 15-30 minutes until I was able to get him to take .25 cc's in one feeding. Then I tried to put him back in with Carina & Coobah. Although they immediately cleaned him, Carina would not allow him near her pouch. I inspected her pouch and it appeared healthy. Why was she not willing to feed him? Was he just too weak? Questions abounded, but no apparent answers were available. When she turned her back on him entirely, I took him back out of their nesting pouch and placed him inside my bra, wrapped up in a nice fleece blanket for added warmth.
For the first day, I fed him every hour around the clock. By midday yesterday, I was able to cut the feedings back to every two hours. Periodically, I would try to put him back into the nesting pouch with Carina & Coobah, only to have them react the same way - initially clean him with frenzy, then completely ignore him. I continued to feed him and placed him in an incubator during the night so I could get a bit of sleep between feedings. This morning, I was totally exhausted from the rigorous schedule of waking & feeding him around the clock for 2 days/nights straight.
At 8:30 this morning, after feeding him .5 cc's of formula, I once again tried to put him in with Coobah & Carina. Praise God! This time they were willing to take care of him. He has been with them for the past 2.5 hours except for during the brief feeding at 10:30 when I had him. Carina still isn't feeding him, but she is cuddling him and keeping him warm. I will continue to feed him every two hours and hopefully they will take care of him in between times, but I will be keeping a very close eye/ear on them to make sure he's not being ignored.
Here are a couple of pictures that I took of him yesterday afternoon mlove

I have named him Burnum, which is Australian Aboriginal and means "A Great Warrior" because he has certainly fought to survive!
So, to answer the original question: hand raise or supplement? The answer is not simply cut & dried - only close observation of the parents' behavior with the joey can truly answer that question. By continuing to give them the opportunity to continue caring for the joey, I was able to keep them familiar with his smell so that he was still acceptable to them. Had I noticed any aggression towards him at all, I would have immediately stopped the "visitations" but since they continued to have initial interest, I continued to give them the opportunity to take him back. I believe that he was too weak on Friday and yesterday and so they simply gave up on him; however, this morning, he was much stronger and so they have renewed hope for him and were willing to start caring for him again. Whether Carina will start allowing him to nurse again is another question entirely. It is possible that after 2 days she no longer is producing milk and I may have to continue to feed him around the clock for her. Only time will tell...


Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders
Re: Hand Raising vs. Supplement Feeding a New Joey [Re: sugarglidersuz] #212765
02/04/07 02:18 PM
02/04/07 02:18 PM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



I will keep you and the little joey in my thoughts and prayers, He is in the best capable hands! Keep us updated on his progress!

Re: Hand Raising vs. Supplement Feeding a New Joey [Re: ] #213078
02/05/07 02:23 AM
02/05/07 02:23 AM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



He IS in the best capable hands! I agree wholeheartedly with Laura...

You and him will be in my thoughts and prayers....

Re: Hand Raising vs. Supplement Feeding a New Joey [Re: ] #213805
02/06/07 04:24 PM
02/06/07 04:24 PM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,788
Cleveland, Ohio
sugarglidersuz Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
sugarglidersuz  Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,788
Cleveland, Ohio
Although we both tried really hard, Burnum just gave up the fight cry cry cry I tried everything, but just couldn't get him to make it. He was doing really well until this morning and then he took a turn for the worse...
need_hug


Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders
Re: Hand Raising vs. Supplement Feeding a New Joey [Re: sugarglidersuz] #213851
02/06/07 06:10 PM
02/06/07 06:10 PM
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,732
Utah
S
silverwolf Offline
Glider Slave
silverwolf  Offline
Glider Slave
S

Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,732
Utah
I'm so sorry suz you have been such a great help to me with my little one. Just know that you did everything you could for this little guy.

Re: Hand Raising vs. Supplement Feeding a New Joey [Re: silverwolf] #213898
02/06/07 07:04 PM
02/06/07 07:04 PM
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,884
Wyoming
tbull Offline
Glider Addict
tbull  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 3,884
Wyoming
I'm so sorry for your loss. hug2


T~
www.lovegliders.com

** Meddle not in the affairs of Dragons, for
you are crunchy and taste good with catsup **

*Proud to forever be a Boo-Boo and BJ Fan!*

Re: Hand Raising vs. Supplement Feeding a New Joey [Re: sugarglidersuz] #213902
02/06/07 07:11 PM
02/06/07 07:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
ValkyrieMome  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
Oh, Suz! I'm so so sorry!
cry


Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
Re: Hand Raising vs. Supplement Feeding a New Joey [Re: ValkyrieMome] #213910
02/06/07 07:26 PM
02/06/07 07:26 PM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



Suz, I'm so sorry. cry
Sending lots of hugs and prayers your way. hug2 hug2 hug2

Re: Hand Raising vs. Supplement Feeding a New Joey [Re: ] #213913
02/06/07 07:33 PM
02/06/07 07:33 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,295
Chicago, IL
FURBYnGIZMO Offline
Glider Addict
FURBYnGIZMO  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 3,295
Chicago, IL

Suz, it's so sad to see you type in blue upset

I'm so use to your signature green

More HUGS sent your way hug2 hug2 hug2 hug2 hug2 hug2



dance Jenny

Furby -- Kalila -- Deuce -- Gizmo

Furby :grey: Kalila :wfb: Deuce :leu:

Gizmo :rbridge:

Re: Hand Raising vs. Supplement Feeding a New Joey [Re: ] #213916
02/06/07 07:37 PM
02/06/07 07:37 PM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



Oh Suz Im so sorry...he had the best chance he could have got with you but I guess it just wasnt meant to be. Sending you a big overseas hug hug2

Re: Hand Raising vs. Supplement Feeding a New Joey [Re: ] #213940
02/06/07 08:31 PM
02/06/07 08:31 PM
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 5,363
Ok
Sheila Offline
Serious Glideritis
Sheila  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 5,363
Ok
I am so sorry for your loss. I know very well what that feels like. I have never had one live for 5 days and die. I have put them back in with the parents for the duration even though I feed them round the clock. I do feed my joeys every 1.5 hours apart until they are 7 days old and then increase to 2 hours. Many times we get tired with the feedings and feed them too quickly and it goes into their lungs. It is very hard to regulate. I am so sorry.


ToandFro Gliders

http://www.toandfrogliders.com

USDA Licensed breeder for 12 years and counting!

WE SELL THE STEALTH WHEEL
Re: Hand Raising vs. Supplement Feeding a New Joey [Re: ] #213943
02/06/07 08:33 PM
02/06/07 08:33 PM
Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,501
Parsons, Kansas
dranger1108 Offline
Glider Addict
dranger1108  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: May 2006
Posts: 2,501
Parsons, Kansas
I'm so sorry Suz hug2



:grey: Michelle's Sugar Glider Babies & Toys :wfb:
USDA licensed breeder
http://www.freewebs.com/michellesugarbabytoys/index.htm
Neat glider themed products!
:glider: http://www.zazzle.com/dranger1108/products :glider:
Re: Hand Raising vs. Supplement Feeding a New Joey [Re: dranger1108] #214005
02/06/07 10:21 PM
02/06/07 10:21 PM
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,234
Tarpon Springs, FL
mattysmom Offline
Glider Guardian
mattysmom  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 1,234
Tarpon Springs, FL
I'm sorry to hear this little one didn't make it. You tried your best. I did discover recently - while reading about hand raising rejected hedgehog babies - that it is very, very important to mimic the mother's cleaning process which stimulates their digestive system. I use a cotton ball dipped in warm water and rub their tummies until it is "obvious" that their digestive system is working. You also have to make sure you don't underfeed or overfeed. It's really difficult to raise them by hand from their first day but who can not try?


Moira & Matty & my zoo
Re: Hand Raising vs. Supplement Feeding a New Joey [Re: mattysmom] #214009
02/06/07 10:29 PM
02/06/07 10:29 PM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



oh my gosh...although I don't know you personally Suz, I DO know if YOU couldn't help him stay here....then it really wasn't meant to be.....our condolances for your loss.....we are so sorry....

Re: Hand Raising vs. Supplement Feeding a New Joey [Re: ] #214063
02/06/07 11:45 PM
02/06/07 11:45 PM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



so sorry for your loss. sending love and hugs.

Re: Hand Raising vs. Supplement Feeding a New Joey [Re: ] #214068
02/06/07 11:53 PM
02/06/07 11:53 PM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



OOPS....we forgot this



[size:20pt]HUG!!!!!!![/color]

Re: Hand Raising vs. Supplement Feeding a New Joey [Re: ] #214237
02/07/07 08:26 AM
02/07/07 08:26 AM
Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,788
Cleveland, Ohio
sugarglidersuz Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
sugarglidersuz  Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Aug 2004
Posts: 14,788
Cleveland, Ohio
Now that my emotions aren't quite as raw as they were yesterday, I can try to post a bit more information about what happened yesterday.
First, I want to start by saying that I truly believe, in retrospect, that there was something truly wrong with this joey (and his twin) from the start. Carina is normally such a strong and very joey-protective mother, that to have her actually reject her joeys is a shock and a definite indicator of something being seriously wrong. I know that she is in excellent health and has no problems with milk production nor does she have any type of pouch infection right now. Therefore, the problem HAD to have been with the joeys' health to begin with.
There are many who would say that I should have just let nature take its course from the beginning rather than trying to save the life of little Burnum. On an intellectual level, I can agree with this philosophy; however, being a nurturer/rescuer personality type, it's just foreign to me not to try my utmost to try to save any little one in distress.
As for Burnum, in particular, I knew right away yesterday morning that he had taken a turn for the worse and that it was very likely that he wouldn't make it. I have successfully hand-raised and supplement-fed quite a few joeys in my 4 years of breeding, so I know all about not feeding joeys too often, massaging them to help with digestion, etc., etc., etc. I'm not saying that I know everything there is to know, just explaining that I have a lot of experience in this area (unfortunately). In spite of my efforts, little Burnum just wasn't meant to survive, and that's what I have to face and accept. Much as I wanted him to, much as I pleaded with God, the fact of the matter is: there was something wrong with him and it was beyond my control. I'm not God and I can't change the course of fate...
Anyway, I'm starting to ramble and probably just repeating myself and not making much sense, so I'll end this now.

Thank you all for your support and encouragement. I really appreciate it! hug2 hug2 hug2


Suz Enyedy
:bb: Carina & Coobah
Allira & Gizmo :grey:
:grey: Picasso, Trinity Joy & Luna
:rbridge: DaisyMae; Darwin; Mareki; Mambo; Pika; Cricky; Reggie & Bobo, Pepe & Bittah


Suz' Sugar Gliders
Re: Hand Raising vs. Supplement Feeding a New Joey [Re: sugarglidersuz] #214248
02/07/07 09:43 AM
02/07/07 09:43 AM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 250
Reading to my girls in Florida
W
WholeheartMom Offline
Glider Explorer
WholeheartMom  Offline
Glider Explorer
W

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 250
Reading to my girls in Florida
Suz, how beautiful your heart and soul are! You truly are the rejected joey's friend and saviour, not only to your babies personally, but to the hundreds of other joeys whom you have helped second handedly.

So many times you have selflessly given of your time and shared your many years of wisdom with others who are struggling and lost without a clue as to how to help their little rejected joey, and you have ALWAYS been there, EVERY SINGLE TIME.

Consider yourself a part of every joey who has been saved through your sage wisdom and selfless generosity in sharing it. One of those joeys who you have helped is my little Blondie girl, who is thriving and healthy thanks to your willingness to help.

Little Burnam was one very lucky boy! He had the best angel in the world looking after him, but sometimes even the best cannot create a miracle, especially if it is just not meant to be. But you did make a difference... A huge one! He had warmth, love and sustenance as well as prayers and blessings. Every rejected joey should be so lucky...

Hugs to you from us and from all the joeys whom you have been a part of!

p.s. Blondie says "ssst,ssst, Me iz up to 18 gwams now and I am uh sweetee"


I am a homeschool mom to four girls and seven sugar gliders; an annoying ponderer of deep thoughts; a purposeful meanderer on walks and strolls; a prayerful wonderer and marveler; a friend to many small creatures, and an Undercover Agent for the Kingdom which cannot be shaken...Nice to meet you!
Re: Hand Raising vs. Supplement Feeding a New Joey [Re: WholeheartMom] #214357
02/07/07 02:17 PM
02/07/07 02:17 PM
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 5,336
Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
B
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis
Bourbon  Offline
Serious Glideritis
B

Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 5,336
Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
my heart and prayers remain with you suz

Re: Hand Raising vs. Supplement Feeding a New Joey [Re: Bourbon] #214383
02/07/07 03:18 PM
02/07/07 03:18 PM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



Oh Suz I am so sorry. He was so lucky to have you. I can only imagine how u must feel right now and my prayers go out to you.

Re: Hand Raising vs. Supplement Feeding a New Joey [Re: ] #214465
02/07/07 05:08 PM
02/07/07 05:08 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
USA
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis
SugarBlossoms  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
USA
Suz *MASSIVE HUGS*

You have always been there for me with the past loss of our rejected babies. I bugged you to pieces this last time but thanks to you we have Sarah Ann. She wouldn't be here if you didn't hold me up through this. Thanks to you she is now going on 7 weeks old and healthy.

I am so sorry this happened to you of all people who give of themself so freely to help others in this situation. It is obvious something was wrong with the joey in this situation. I know you did everything you could.

The joey was beautiful, only God knows and it's mama what was wrong on the inside, something us humans can never see or know.

Know that you have saved many many joeys and helped others like me save a joey.

You are truly a Glider angel, a blessing to us all and are always there to help when we need you. Now it's your turn.

You may never know how much you are truly loved although I've never met you and may never, I Love you. ..as many others here do I'm sure.

God Bless you and I pray your heart has more peace everyday.



Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.
Re: Hand Raising vs. Supplement Feeding a New Joey [Re: SugarBlossoms] #214751
02/08/07 01:53 AM
02/08/07 01:53 AM

A
Anonymous
Unregistered
Anonymous
Unregistered
A



oh suz, i am sooo sorry everytime i see a post on rejected joey's you are always the first one to either reply or you are the one that everyone suggests talk to. (sorry if that didn't make sence i wasn't sure how to put it) i hope that your next joeys go a little smoother. ((HUGS)) for now.


Moderated by  Feather, KarenE, Ladymagyver 

Sugar Glider Help Page



Please click above to see how you can help!!

Moon
CURRENT MOON
Who's Online Now
1 registered members (Ladymagyver), 32 guests, and 345 spiders.
Key: , , Owner, Admin
Newest Members
LasVegasGliders, Pikachu, hyperghost20, sugarglider_spb, Kadence_MJC3
7243 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums132
Topics10,237
Posts158,499
posts in the last 24hrs0
Members7,243
Most Online2,693
Jan 2nd, 2020
Last 10 New Topics
It's CAKE TIME !!!!
by KarenE. 05/09/21 10:11 AM
Hi I’m New!
by Pikachu. 05/02/21 12:21 AM
Cloaca irritated? Bladder infection?
by racheloddment. 04/26/21 12:27 AM
Bonding time - Together or individual?
by Suggie223. 04/25/21 06:53 PM
Critter Nation Shelf Pan/Tray Replacement
by Suggie223. 04/25/21 06:49 PM
Questions on neuter after care
by cookielover. 04/23/21 10:25 PM
Difference between fecal smear and float
by cookielover. 04/20/21 01:09 PM
What to do with different weighted gliders
by cookielover. 04/18/21 01:16 PM
First Time Owner looking for help
by lilsuggies. 04/16/21 03:37 PM
Popular Topics(Views)
818,667 TEXAS
651,031 OHIO
457,566 OKLAHOMA
406,138 UTAH
299,471 NORTH CAROLINA
Supported Browser
This site was tested and is best viewed in Google Chrome & Mozilla FireFox



Firefox 3

Download your copy today!!!
Home Forums Links Sitemap Vets Breeders Sounds Contact Us Names Rules & Policies

GliderCENTRAL
©1998-2021
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software
(Release build 20180918)
Page Time: 0.045s Queries: 14 (0.013s) Memory: 1.4267 MB (Peak: 1.7000 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2021-05-13 18:29:18 UTC