Oh, how heartbreaking! That is one tough situation. While I can't really offer any new advice, I can offer my best hopes that this all works itself out. I'd consider taking her in myself except that it seems you've done everything a person can do! I would be so afraid of scaring her in a new place...

Just know that my thoughts are with you!

Girl - let me tell you. Miss Zoe (your Meah & Leah's Mama) was a pitbull biter when I first got her. She came from a good home too. She came from a lady who loved her very much, but she got pregnant & couldn't go near Zoe without vomiting! Well, Zoe came to live with me & Zoe was MAD! She bit me every time I tried to say hi. She would run across the cage for no other reason than to bit me. If I picked her up, she would chomp down on my hand and turn herself in a circle, biting all the way around - if I let go, she would hang on! I remember my hands used to ache from the puncture wounds! It took her about a year to stop being mad at me. She took baby steps, but she stopped.

Now she is extremely alpha - she will chomp the heck outta me if she even smells Monster's family. And she does still bite me - she does it when she wants to do something that Mommy won't let her do. Like if we're having playtime & I see her heading for Monster's cage to pick a fight - I'll put my hand in front of her and say "I don't think so, Zoe" and she'll bite me every time. Or if she wants a yogie & she opens the container by herself & I take it away - she'll bite me. It's most definately a control thing for her. Like a child throwing a temper tantrum. But when a child throws a fit, that's when you need to assert your dominance the most, or they'll walk all over you. If I were to let Zoe go to Monster's cage and pick fights, or go open the yogie jar whenever she felt like it, what good would that do? I would just be letting her place herself higher on the totem pole and she'd likely bite more often and with less reason or thought. The most stabalizing thing I have found for Zoe is to maintain my dominant position.

If she goes to someone else, it's going to be rough on both of you - If she stays, it's going to be rough on both of you. I would love more than anything to fix this for you, to tell you I'd take Buffy & work with her - but I know what you want is to be able to do it yourself. Michelle, I know you're a softy for these suggies - If you want to keep Buffy & keep trying with her, she CAN NOT KNOW that you're a softy! You HAVE to be STRONG and DOMINANT - this girl needs some tough love! She will not hate you, trust me. Zoe adores me! I know, I could totally be making that up - LOL - but she really does, we have a great bond! She just needs something different from me than my other gliders do. I really think that's all Buffy needs, and I really truly think you can do it - even with one arm. Put on a glove if you need to, just show her that her temper tantrum is not going to stop you from taking control! Call if you want to talk - G

Thanks Gina! The glove idea came to me today too, I think tomorrow Buffy and I are going to have us a little talk. I love her to peices and I will take every precaution to not get tore up to badly. I will be using Bourbons idea of the cutting board between us and put on major battle gear in case she gets by my one hand. I'm just lost right now and soo confused.
Thank you everyone.
(((((((((((((((((((((((HUGS)))))))))))))))))))
Shelle and Buffy

Also honey, when I was working with Zoe, I used one of those quilted flannel shirts - it's much harder to bite through!

I might have one of those, will check my closet and triple layer every part of my body just in case!

Shelle, I can't offer any suggestions or advice; I've been blessed with sweet (albeit two somewhat shy) gliders. But you've already gotten the best possible from the best out there! I just wanted to say how much I admire your heart and strength and courage. I know how incredibly difficult this has been and now is for you. to you, and I pray little Buffy finds the ability to transfer her love for you to her new, forever future slave and home, and that her true, sweet glider nature can shine through.

courage?? lol nope not here. I will admit its pathetic but Buffy scares me, ever since it was said "what if she gets your jugular" lol No I can take bites don't get me wrong but the thought of her getting me someplace that will bleed horribly scares me to death!
Gina is right I am a softie to my suggies. I just love them and understand their abuse on some level. I understand Buffy, she was abused neglected and its one of the reasons shes so close to my heart. Everyone even animals need love, even if they are battered and physically not perfect. I can have the greatest empathy for Buffy, I see me in Buffy. She was a glider who was deemed unadoptable and no one wanted her. I can relate to that. Thats why shes my girl because deep down there is love there. I just have to find it somehow. Even Buffy barking for mom at 3 in the morning just to crab insane when she sees me lol leave the room wait 16 minutes and she does it again.

Michelle, it takes a glider slave to see the love in that! (((HUGS)))

My first year of having gliders, I think I only had 4 then as pairs, a very good friend of mine gave me a glider named Scamp. He was on 12 weeks and a real lunger and biter. I had no idea what to do with him. There was NO way to get close to his cage and he prefered sleeping in a nestler rather than a pouch. I was ready to quite gliders as I felt I had done something wrong. But how could I? He came to me that way. I believe that someone hurt him or scared him and he could not get past the trust factor. I called Bourbon and she came to my home and worked with him until her hands had to be soaked at night to reduce the swelling. It didn't work. At the same time she was working with another glider much worse than Scamp. I can take the bite but these were not just bites it was attacts. She spent 2 days with this other glider and looked like mince meat. But it worked. The problem was the owner didn't keep up with what she had told her. But he ended up loving Bourbon.

My husband said we could not keep Scamp due to my health and not being able to take the bite and he sure won't. Bourbon took him home with her and worked with him and then a miricale happened. First she changed his name to Buddy, then a few months later a young man she knew came to see her and play with the gliders and saw "Buddy" and it was love at first sight. He took Buddy and they just love each other. I understand he even has a mate, which he would not tolotrate any other gliders or humans. I felt so sad and just hurt for this little guy.

I think with each case there is a different cause. But I think most is fear and the other control so they want to make sure they are not hurt. I don't know the answer and never will. I will only remember how chewed up B. was and how consistant she was with both of the gliders.

Please don't blame yourself. I truly believe it's their issue.

I have offered no help but wanted to share how first hand what I have seen happen. My prayers are with you and you have been given great advice. If I can help let me know.

Ellen, you brought up a good point that we failed to mention in our posts. We do know that Buffy was hurt, just now HOW. She only has a little stub of a tail. Could have been an accident, could have been from abuse. We just don't know, she was like that when Shelle got her.

Shelle, please hon...you have to forgive yourself especially since you have done NOTHING wrong. You have give so unselfishly to Buffy and your other gliders/animals. I know what kind of glider mom you are or you would never have adopted from me and you would never have gotten the girls from Gina. Not to mention the little wf you will get from me.

I know you are discouraged and confused. Those are both normal feelings but know that Buffy's issues are NOT your fault just as Buddy's was not Ellen's fault. We are only human...each of us has our limitations. We can't fix everything no matter how much love we have and how badly we want to.

I'm going to send you a pm soon...

Thanks guys, I am resigned to finding Buffy her "special" person to win her over.

Well I'm trying something new, for now so a new home is on hold. I just cannot seem to give up yet. If it works, praying, we can go to the next level with Buffy.

I know it is... but we used to have this horse named Rasmusin... He was a MEAN horse... he would charge the fence he would kick out at anyone who came close. Bear teeth and snap at people... Well we found out that the guy who had owned him before us... had beat the heck out of this poor horse with a 2x4 then used rope to tie him down so he couldn't move... and that's all because the horse was green the first time he tried to ride him and he bucked the guy off....


Anyways.. we got this horse... he HATED my step dad... he HATED my mom... BUT me... he loved me.... I could do anything with that horse... I'd had a lot of pain in my life... and we understood each other... that horse would have gone to purgatory and back for me... I could lay on him at night with not a piece of tack on him and he would just wander around eating... I remember those nights just listing to him chew and eat...

Anways.... you are doing everything in your power to help her.... I have FAITH that she will get better... God brings us together for reasons.... she's with you for some reason... and maybe it's because you can help her... maybe because it's you that will help to find her the right home... whatever it is... just know this... She's safe with you NOW... what happens tomorrow is another day..

Be safe

Christa

I'm so sorry that Buffy is such a biter.
It does sound like you love her very much. Maybe wearing many layers of clothing to make your skin "thicker" and for your hand, what about a glove? Ya know something like the use for birds? You prolly won't need anything that thick, but something thick enough she can't reach your skin....

Is there anything that is not harmful to gliders that tastes bad?? Like jalapeno (sp?) juice or something, your could spirts on say a Jacket you can wear and/or the glove, then when she bites it would taste awful to her. I don't know if this would just tick her off more, or work as a negitive reaction to the biting.


Now
But I really really really really Hate hearing the Term "pitbull biter" I know you said that this is a term the "glider community" made up, but I still think it's very wrong.
PitBulls (Rotts, dobermans ect) are all given a bad name. No dog can lock it's jaws and MANY, if not all, dogs will bite something and shake thier heads and bodies. Not just pittbulls. Pittbulls, the innocent pets, are taking the heat for bad and negelagence owners.

We Glider owners are all Animal Lovers, I would hope we could come up with a much less daragatory term for extreme biters.

Do you know that the dog that has the highest bite rate is not a pit bull, rottie, dobie, or Shepard?


It's a Golden Retriever... *nod nod* it's because so many people know them to be good family dogs therefore because of shear numbers they have the highest bite rate.. just an fyi and totally way off topic

sorry

This thread will be locked at the request of the originator.

Unlocked at the request of the originator for updates!

Just wanted to update everyone on Buffy. In 3 days with her new pouch and the work of Dancing and Bourbon, Buffy is a much better glider.Buffy's new pouch is from pampered gliders, its for pouch protective gliders. It has helped Buffy to come to terms with her enviroment. For the first time since I have adopted Buffy. I can reach in her cage and do what evers needed!! To include feeding and hanging toys without her crabbing or flying out of a regular pouch trying to bite. In the new pouch she just raises her head and looks at me. I physically moved her whole cage, which would have resulted in total craziness on Buffy but now she just looks and goes back to sleep! We are in only phase one of this technique but Buffy is responding faster than Bourbon and I thought. Its taking alot of time on my part to help her and I learn to trust each other again. We still have a long road ahead but we are doing great!! All along this has been whats best FOR Buffy!! Not how I want Buffy but a happy not scared glider and we are getting there really quick. I do NOT feel I can take much credit in this department. I am doing what is told for me to do and its working!!! If not for T and Bourbon I would still be taking the bites! I did not think any different until the bites were soo bad and my bleeding that I finally spoke up. The ladies helping me have been a god send, they are having to figure out one handed techniques because that is all I have. Its a learning experience and for Buffy shes worth all this and much more. ALL I have ever wanted was for her to be happy and not scared to death. I believe all we are doing and her new pouch are the reasons!! Keep Buffy in your prayers, shes doing much better!! Words cannot express how much I owe everyone that is helping us. I am glad that I did not give up on Buffy.

http://www.thepamperedglider.com/products.htm I am soo in love with this pouch!! If you have a pouch protective glider please order one of these! It has sure changed my biter!!

Shelle, I'm so glad that things are working out for you and Buffy and that things are going well.

What a great update! I'm so happy to hear things are getting better What a lucky girl Buffy is to have someone like you for a mom!!

We to are glad that things have turned around for you and her. We wish you both a healthy and happy bonding process. Please keep us all updated.

I am happy to hear things are working out and that Buffy is learning to trust and not be afraid. I too just ordered this pouch at the advise of Bourbon for a glider I have taken in. This is our first night with this same pouch and everyone is staying clear of it! But they will cave in and use it before the night is over. I will let you know how we make out also as I am very encouraged by you and Buffy!'

Thank you for sharing you story with us.

Buffy freaked a little at the "new" pouch but by morning the first day there was a HUGE differance in her!

It's so good to hear that you and Buffy are mending your relationship! Big big (((HUGS))) to you and Buffy!

just wanted to say i'm rooting for you and Buffy to make it. your efforts shall really be rewarded 1 of these trying days Chelle !! just keep hangin' in there ! she knows she's loved, and for now, that's what matters most.

Thanks everyone We are trying very hard and making lots of progress. Its a learning course for the both of us. Shes alot more relaxed than I have ever seen her!

i am getting that pouch too, bourbon and shelleriddle called me yesterday and we talked about it. its amazing what can happen in just a few days time.

PROGRESS!!! Tonight I washed Buffys pouch and had to get back in to hang it up.Well normally before the new pouch and the new bonding techniques Buffy would have ate me alive. I resolved to getting bit putting the pouch back in BUT she just came over and sniffed my hand and walked away!!! This is very exciting to me. She has NEVER sniffed me, always a bite. I truely feel this new pouch has made all the differance in this gliders life. She is responding soo quickly to the bonding techniques. This pouch helps them to get used to their enviroment by seeing everything that is going on!! We are taking baby steps and its working!!!

yay Buffy! What awesome news Shelle, keep up the great work

Fantastic Shelle! I can't wait to see for myself tomorrow. I am going to cut her nails while I'm there whether she likes it or not. It aught to be interesting.

I love going over to Shelle's. She has so many of my favorite gliders. Chunky, Darwin, Spike (though he doesn't like me much) darlin little Angel. (hummm, I see a pattern here, they are all neutered boys!)