I have considered feeding live prey (well, actually bf would do the feeding, I can't even touch a meal worm), however since he does not clean the cage, that is my biggest objection, that has to be pretty gross. So we never really looked into the pros and cons because the cage cleaning issue was con enough for me. (Dead mealies in the cage tray gross me out enough).

How easy is it to aquire the propper tools to do this??

I didn't say it was the best way out there. I said </font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
freezing mice/chicks is actually the most humane way you can safely euthanize an feeder animal

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The other forms of safe feeder euthanizing feeders are much more brutal... Like starvation, dehydration, decapitation, sever trauma, blood letting (letting them bleed to death), or suffocation. There are also chemical forms of euthanasia, but it's not known how safe they are... Examples of them would be potassium injections and over doses of general anistetic...
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I've had this discussion many times in the past, and no, freezing is not the best way to euthanize any warm blooded or cold blooded feeder animal. The formation of ice crystals in tissue is incredibly slow and painful, as most mammals fight the whole way down. Use C02.

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Actually, it only takes one formed ice crystal traveling through the heart to kill an animal...
Also, CO2 isn't exactly an option for the every day person. Last I checked that wasn't sitting in my kitchen cabinent...
**Are there any possible adverse effects to using CO2 <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" /> And, where would you buy it? How would you administer it?

that is what i thought. . .
--Kat

Interesting how there's such a double standard about feeding animals other animals not only in people's personal opinions but in the law as well. For example, if you feed your snake a rat, that's just fine, but everyone would be horrified if you fed it a puppy. Humans, apparently, are allowed to determine which animals are 'higher up' than others. A rat is a lower species of animal than a dog, but personally, I think a rat makes a better pet. Ah well. Stupid humans.

There are adverse affects to everything. Freezing is not an acceptable means of euthanasia. You can obtain CO2 by using dry ice, that's what small scale rodent feeder breeders use. I've never had to read up on it, and I don't think it's too useful to go into detail about it. I think of myself as a pretty cold person when it comes to the live prey factors in animal husbandry, do what must be done, I've known people that feed puppy, kittens, ferrets, etc. to their snakes and other reptiles that would just be put to sleep in our overcrowded animal shelters, waste not want, as long as the euthanasia is quick with the least amount of pain. Most pet stores that offer live prey (pinkies, button quail, etc.) also offer pre-killed frozen prey. Why not just buy the pre-killed frozen stuff and not worry about it?

Yes, I realize that we like to be in control of every aspect of pet health, and would be skeptical of the manner in which the prey was kept and the means in which euthanasia was enacted, but I don't think many of you raise and breed your own feeder mice. If it's good for the gliders, I'll feed mine pinky mice or button quail, but I'll buy pre-frozen from a reliable and trusted supplier and thaw what I need.

The difference between the forums I used to go to and this one, seems to be the maturity level. From what I've read, we have a healthy respect for eachother and eachother's feelings and values, At say, the Kingsnake forums on Pethobbyist, there would have been a large gnashing of teeth and numerous other posts about human euthanasia and the bombing of Hiroshima and 9/11, until the argument would go on and on until they'd find something newer to argue about.

I want to breed my own feeder mice in the future. I currently raise my own mealworms... If/when I do feed pinkies, I will feed them live. I would never feed a mouse from a pet store, but that's mainly because I worked at one... I want to open my own pet store some day with my standards. Then, and only then, will I even consider feeding pet store mice to my babies. I'll still probably have my own special breeders just for my gliders though (I'm silly like that).

How do gliders eat pinkies? When I get mine they will not be big enough to eat pinkies for several months, but I'd like to know what kind of mess they make.

I can only tell you my husbands experience. They were frozen pinkies and Sassy just picked it up and ate it like a popsicle, there was no mess. At the time I researched gliders it was an exceptable and prefered choice of adding protein to a pregnant gliders diet. I had qualms about it but only because I'm squeemish. Sassy produced a happy healthy baby boy and yes I would do it again. For those who can't handle it or think there is something morally wrong go get a cat or a dog <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/yelclap.gif" alt="" /> There is nothing wrong with either I have four cats. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cool.gif" alt="" />

I don't think its a bad thing to be feeding them pinkies and hatchlings I don't do it personaly but you also have to remember some people eat those kind of things just to survive in other countries so if its good enough for humans it should be good enough for gliders.

I have only done it a few times when my gliders have joeys in pouch. I was kind of worried about the mess because a friend of mine told me there were body parts all over the cage. I fed 3 of my pregnant females about 3 times each and not once did I ever find a mess. Not even a drop of blood. So the mess isn't bad unless you have a glider that doesn't want to eat it all.

The pet store I work in I trust and that is where I got the pinkies from. I once had a person joke with me about feeding a dog to his boa. I think he was trying to rub me the wrong way. I told him to go right ahead if he wanted to pay the price we sold our puppies for (usually around $500or more) that shut him up. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/roflmao.gif" alt="" /> but people in other parts of the world concider dog a delicacey. My mother in law (who is Chinese) always jokes with me that one day my yorkie and maltese dogs are going to be missing and she will be serving the best meal ever! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/roflmao.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/roflmao.gif" alt="" /> she would never do that but I don't hate her because she did eat dog when she lived in China. (it is a different type of dog though)

I guess I'll go ahead and put my opinion in the ring as well.

When I was much younger we had 2 boas that needed to be fed live prey. My dad took me to pick out a bunny and then told me not to get attached to it. I was like 6 of course I got attached. Then he took it and fed it to the boa, he warned me not to watch but I did anyway. Not such a pretty picture.

Then, later down the road my step dad had some large iguanas, which he would feed pinkie mice to. I remember once I took one and brought it to school with me and gave it to my science teacher. I told her I found it and asked her to help me keep it alive. It died.

Now, even with all that I would still feed chicks/pinkies to my gliders if I knew that they wouldn't contract any bacteria or parasites from them. Since I don't know that, I won't do it.

I guess a lesson I learned when I was young is not to think about it. If I did, I wouldn't be able to eat any kind of meat. I can't even imagine what the cows and such go through before they are in my hamburger, and I don't want to.

Like others have said it's really a personal choice. I don't think anyone should hold it against someone who does what they believe is right for their gliders/themselves. Whether they are choosing to feed live animals or not.

Being the one who started the post, really i just have been reading around and i don't think i will feed the baby chicks to my gliders. Reason i asked is because a poultry market is what they call themselves just opened around here, and they have everything from ducks, to chickens, baby chicks, quails, to hens, to even rabbits and guinea pigs. Although walking into the place the same day after i posted on glider central, i just couldnt do it. From seeing, the rabbits, and guinea pigs sentenced to be killed to be food on someone's dinner table got me disgusted. I left the place with buying nothing. Although a couple months back i did feed all my gliders 1 pinkie each. In a way it was a risk because they did come from the local petstore, and now that i don't trust the store at all, from the care and matinence they lack, i do not get nothing from them and order my mealworms online from Grubco.com -- I guess there is that risk for bacteria and parasite when feeding live animals. So i'll just stick to Mealworms, and chicken/turkey dices.

I love this logic. Does this mean I should start raising rabbits so my dogs will have live prey to chase, kill and eat? What about the cat? Maybe mice running aroung the house for him to chase?


Are you saying there is no enrichment value to feeding live prey in captive animals? If so, I would have to strongly beg to differ... Just because they are captive does not mean they have a diminished prey drive. People thinking that because an animal is domesticated or captive it doesn't need to have it's prey drive stimulated is the #1 reason there are so many obese animals.

I am not a vegetarian but do not enjoy watching one animal kill another. With this logic we should legalize dog fighting, cock fighting, bull fighting, etc. Feeding a live animal to another is very barbaric and uncivilized.
Charlie H

Not a single person on this thread has said they feed live animals to their pets because they enjoy watching them kill it. You're right that is sick but not everyone who feeds live animals to their pets are like that. I suspet very few actually. They do it because they believe it is a healthy choice for their animal, not for the enjoyment of watching another animal die.

Charlie H, that was a down right harsh, judgmental, and mean post. If you would have continued reading the rest of the post, you would have seen that I went on to explain my whole opinion on the matter...

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Feeding gliders live prey is very risky. There is a high chance of bacteria, parasites, and injury. I would never feed my gliders a mouse purchased from a pet store. I do feel that all predatory animals have a prey drive. You can see it with most gliders when you offer them a bug or wave a feather around in front of them. I think that it's very important to stimulate that predatory instinct in captive animals to prevent mental problems, but there are other ways to go about it other than feeding live prey. The reason I mentioned live prey is because that was the original topic of this post. There are many different toys that you can buy or make that have similar enrichment qualities to live prey. Feather teasers, practice golf balls with treats inside, and foraging units are just a few. I feel that it is very important to have this type of stimulation for captive animals. Another option, for those comfortable with it and willing to take the risk involved, is live prey. For those that feel it's brutal, very well then, but just like you, people that feed live prey are only doing what they feel is best for their glider.

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Also, not once did I suggest feeding live animals for entertainment value. Thank you for twisting my words and openly insulting me none the less though. I'm going to go play with my gliders, at least they don't accuse me of being "barbaric and uncivilized" and having "mental issues".

Since the poster has decided to not use this form to feed there thier glider, I will close it but leave it up as it does have good information~Gliderdad79