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ratio's next to the list of approved fruits & vegs #299345
05/27/07 11:12 PM
05/27/07 11:12 PM

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dunno i think i sorta understand but just want to understand better, i sure hope i get replies and not just people checking to see what i wrote! my question is the higher the ratio it means not good for suggies or is that list of course in moderation all approved the fruits and vegies list except for the rhubarb sp which i read toxic. i guess my suggies are missing out on lots if this list is approved in moderations, i guess i'm just really trying to understand the ratios and what they means thanks for all answers thanks

Re: ratio's next to the list of approved fruits & vegs [Re: ] #299352
05/27/07 11:20 PM
05/27/07 11:20 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
ValkyrieMome  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
Sorry, I don't know!


Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
Re: ratio's next to the list of approved fruits & vegs [Re: ] #299355
05/27/07 11:21 PM
05/27/07 11:21 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 9,910
Phoenix, AZ
KattyM Offline
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KattyM  Offline
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Posts: 9,910
Phoenix, AZ
The ratios are listed as calcium to phosphorus (Ca:P). The overall ratio in the entire diet plan should be roughly 2:1 Ca:P. That means, in the lists you're probably viewing, the higher the first number, the better. However, it truly depends on which diet you're following. If you pick foods with a very high Ca:P ratio (e.g., figs and papayas) and feed those all the time, along with a plan that has extra calcium factored into the mix (e.g., BML), then you'll throw off the overall balance (providing too much calcium in the diet). Some plans, like BML, are restrictive in which fruits and veggies can be offered (partly for this reason). Other diets are more liberal.

The other thing to remember about the fruits and veggies you offer is that more than just the Ca:P ratio needs to be factored in. Some foods are too high in iron, tannins, oxalates, vitamin C (just to name a few); some foods can cause gas or diarrhea or constipation; some foods are dangerous (e.g., berries, if not carefully washed, might lead to giardia), as well as be toxic. That's one reason we recommend looking through the diet page and Suz’s site, Feeding Your Joeys & Adult Gliders, finding a diet that works for you, and sticking with it, as outlined. smile


Forever owned in my heart by my :grey: "Eight is Enough" colony:

:rbridge:
• 2002: Keiko (F) + 2003: Hiroshi (M) = 2004: joey Tomoki (M)
• 2009: Sammy (F), Charlie (F), Murray (M), Herbie (M)
• 2010: BJ (M)
Re: ratio's next to the list of approved fruits & vegs [Re: KattyM] #299377
05/27/07 11:42 PM
05/27/07 11:42 PM

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grin thanks, one other question, is it bad to have a variety in small amounts. what i'm saying is i tried the bml and i can't remember the other diet, but both my sugies didn't like them at all, what i normally give them and this is in small moderations and switch every other day as well, here's what i give them for the one bowl they get mixed veggies in which i rinse under hot water for quite some time and then i buy baby wiener's that also get rinsed out due to sodieum sp i boil them, i also buy the low sodieum chicken in a can and turking in the can that's all in water i also run this under very hot water for several minutes, now they don't get all of this at once i switch out every other night they also get a cooked egg in microwave with now oil at all added or a boiled egg maybe twice a week, and in the 2ed bowl is the fruit, they get straberries,watermellon,grapes,honey dew,catalope, kiwi, and a dab of yogurt. one night then the other night, i switch to applesauce and mix in like a tsp of baby fruit or veggies and a little bit of honey. i also give mango and passion fruit sometimes and chop of bits of apple and put it on top of the meat/vegie bowl, also give them mealies- not lots cause it's a treat. but overall i've never had any problems, only one of my gliders is a little overweight, but she came to me that way and i've monitored her and she's not gained, i've had them for almost seven years now and very silky, glossy fur and active all of them. there might have been a few things left out, please don't knock what i've fed them, i've honestly have tried a few diets but they don't eat at all, and what i'm feeding them now they eat all of it. and i keep it all in small moderations.

Re: ratio's next to the list of approved fruits & vegs [Re: ] #299388
05/27/07 11:54 PM
05/27/07 11:54 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline
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Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
Any canned and processed meats are LOADED with chemicals. You mentioned baby weiners, canned chicken and canned turkey.

PLEASE don't feed these meats. They can have trace ingredients that do you no harm, yet might kill your glider.

It would be better to buy boneless, skinless chicken breasts, then broil them with no oil or seasoning. Then you can cut that up into little chunks.

Also, I don't see any added calcium or vitamins in your diet. What are you doing for that?

I am NOT trying to tell you that everything you are doing is wrong. There are gliders that just won't eat what they are "supposed" to eat - and it forces their slaves to be extra creative! I just am concerned that in being creative, you are also being healthy!

Some on here have used a calcium dust (such as what they dust reptile insects with) to add with the calcium. And I've heard that Priscilla's vitamins are very tastey and they are sprinkled on top of the fruit/veggies. Good luck!


Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
Re: ratio's next to the list of approved fruits & vegs [Re: ValkyrieMome] #299404
05/28/07 12:07 AM
05/28/07 12:07 AM

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i thought that yogurt had calcium in it, your right on the meat i'll defintly buy the stuff i can boil and chop off, i guess i figured since it was in water and low sodieum and then i boil it it'd be alot better thanks for the advice i do have the powered calcium, but figuring that yogurt and yoggie treats and i don't know but some of the other foods i mentioned has calcium such as these listed,i'm worried they might overdose on the calcium ,Avocado
Papaya
Guava
Cantaloupe
Orange
Apricots (dried, unsulfured)
Mango
Strawberries (organic)
Kiwi
Grapefruit (pink or red)
i had to go look these up but almost everything on this list they get in moderation, but i totally agree with the meat i've been working on that, it's kinda hard, i don't want them to just have boiled chicken, i'll have to find a little more, however i really do appreciate the advice and thank you so much for replying!

Re: ratio's next to the list of approved fruits & vegs [Re: ] #299439
05/28/07 01:16 AM
05/28/07 01:16 AM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 9,910
Phoenix, AZ
KattyM Offline
Serious Glideritis
KattyM  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 9,910
Phoenix, AZ
I can see you've put some serious thought into this, and you're really trying to accommodate your picky eaters. hug2 Remember that (contrary to common sense) offering too much variety can make for picky gliders. Even what might seem like small amounts can add up. Also note that gliders are extremely adept at hiding their illnesses, so by the time you do notice symptoms that might be related to an improper diet, it might be too late. worried

It really is best if you find a recommended diet that has been calculated as far as all of the balances.

If you offer even boiled or roasted chicken (which is what some diets call for), know that the Ca:P ratios are much higher than, say, baby food chicken (make sure it has no seasonings, especially garlic or onion). From the USDA Nutrient Database for Standard Reference, per 100 gram servings:
  • Chicken breast (roasted): 15 mg Ca : 228 mg P (15.2 times higher in P than Ca)
  • Chicken baby food (junior): 55 mg Ca : 122 mg P (roughly 2.2 times higher in P than Ca)

From the BML page, you can substitute Heinz or Beechnut if you can't find the Gerber (chicken with either gravy or broth). Even if you feel the BML diet won't work for your babies, the baby food that's recommended in that diet might be a good choice.

Many people have had great success with their picky eaters with the The Pet Glider, or Priscilla's diet. Here are a couple of threads:

Wanna hear about Pricilla's Diet
Wanna Hear about Priscillas diet II

The PML, or Pockets Modified Leadbeater's, diet is also one that seems to work for many picky eaters. Here are some threads on that:

PML
Pockets Modified Leadbeater's
Pockets Modified Leadbeater's Pt. 2
Pockets' Modified Leadbeater's Pt. 3

I strongly urge you to consider one of our recommended diets. It's so extremely difficult to calculate all the necessary balances a captive sugar glider needs. A lot of thought and research (often with a glider-knowledgeable vet) has gone into these diet plans. And fortunately, many of the developers of these diets are available to answer questions about recommendations for fruits and veggies, or slight variations (and how often) might be safely made.

Here's an additional thread that might interest you: Diet doubts.

Last edited by sugarlope; 07/06/08 01:46 PM. Reason: fixed links

Forever owned in my heart by my :grey: "Eight is Enough" colony:

:rbridge:
• 2002: Keiko (F) + 2003: Hiroshi (M) = 2004: joey Tomoki (M)
• 2009: Sammy (F), Charlie (F), Murray (M), Herbie (M)
• 2010: BJ (M)
Re: ratio's next to the list of approved fruits & vegs [Re: KattyM] #299973
05/28/07 06:22 PM
05/28/07 06:22 PM

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smile thank you very much for all the info and will definately give it a shot, there is just a few more questions, why must we freeze all this stuff, in the wild this stuff isn't mixed or froozen they scrounge for it? and i do think your right with the baby chicken, i'm doing my research and i definately have a open mind thanks much! grin

Re: ratio's next to the list of approved fruits & vegs [Re: ] #300397
05/29/07 09:52 AM
05/29/07 09:52 AM

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the major reason MOST of us freeze diet ingredients is ease of use... things with chicken, etc spoil... and so does yogurt, etc... and we don't want to poison our babies but they eat so little at a time that a LOT of diets have us mixing up a months worth of staple (for a glider) at a time...

I don't do this one as much as I freeze fruit and veggie mixes because I don't have time to cut up a variety each night and as part of making them meet their needs.. and we as humans don't always get to eat the rest.. also this allows me to buy things seasonally and feed them on a more varied time span...

I weigh out what I am putting in their fruit and veggie mix to have precalculated ratios of several nutrients, and to make sure they aren't getting too much of others....

But I am not feeding a "proven" diet at the moment.. so that is part of it...

Amie

Re: ratio's next to the list of approved fruits & vegs [Re: ] #300742
05/29/07 05:20 PM
05/29/07 05:20 PM

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grin thanks for the reply, as you can see i wasn't following the proven diets eigther, but am going to try thanks again for the input ooo


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