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WFB generation question... #459460
01/23/08 11:08 AM
01/23/08 11:08 AM

N
NickieDo
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N



I have a few questions..

if you breed a 4th gen with a standard, are the babies considered a 3.5 gen or a 1st gen? why?

how do you get a 2.5 gen glider? where is the .5 coming from?

how is the percentage calculated?
ex. how would you calculate the joey
2nd gen wfb x 4.25 gen wfb = ?


I'm just a little confused smile

Re: WFB generation question... [Re: ] #459463
01/23/08 11:18 AM
01/23/08 11:18 AM
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 666
Xenia, Oh
Candy Offline
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Candy  Offline
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Posts: 666
Xenia, Oh
The joeys can only be as high as the lowest generation parent. If you put 2 2nd generations WFBs together they will have a 3rd generation baby. But if you put a 1st generation and a 2nd generation the baby will only be a 2nd generation because the one parent only has one generation wf behind it.
Now to get the half would be like a first generation and 3rd generation some will list them as a 2.5 or a 2+ showing that one parent is a further down the line WF.
Hope this helps. Don't know if I explained things quite right.


Candy

Mom to 2 skin kids, Jace and Jaxon
Re: WFB generation question... [Re: ] #459465
01/23/08 11:20 AM
01/23/08 11:20 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,576
Kilgore, Texas
Cora Offline
Serious Glideritis
Cora  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,576
Kilgore, Texas
OK I can help with part of this question. My Roxy is a WFB...........her dad was a WFB and her mom was a standard . Her mate Rocko is a WFB............His mom and dad were WFB.................his grandad was WFB.....grandma was a standard.............Their babies are 2.5 gen (or so I have been told). 2 4th gen WFB will produce a 5th gen but a 1st gen and 4th gen are going to produce a 2nd gen. My Nick (coming home soon) is a 5th gen and she will be paired with a 2.5 gen (Holly) and their babies will be 3+ gen.....................does any of this make sense??????? smile


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Re: WFB generation question... [Re: Cora] #459466
01/23/08 11:22 AM
01/23/08 11:22 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,576
Kilgore, Texas
Cora Offline
Serious Glideritis
Cora  Offline
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Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,576
Kilgore, Texas
So a 4th gen with a standard is a 1st gen!!!


USDA Licensed Breeder
903-808-1142

http://www.freewebs.com/angelfish_37/index.htm
Re: WFB generation question... [Re: Cora] #459469
01/23/08 11:31 AM
01/23/08 11:31 AM
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 2,443
Roanoke, Virginia
mommawannabe Offline
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mommawannabe  Offline
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Roanoke, Virginia
So a 1st gen wfb mated to a 3.5 gen is a 2nd gen?

Anna


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Re: WFB generation question... [Re: mommawannabe] #459481
01/23/08 11:41 AM
01/23/08 11:41 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,576
Kilgore, Texas
Cora Offline
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Kilgore, Texas
sounds right!!!!


USDA Licensed Breeder
903-808-1142

http://www.freewebs.com/angelfish_37/index.htm
Re: WFB generation question... [Re: ] #459496
01/23/08 11:51 AM
01/23/08 11:51 AM
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 5,363
Ok
Sheila Offline
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Sheila  Offline
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Ok
This is very complicated and my old brain gets taxed. I use to know how to do these really well, but now I am boggled.


One side:
Grandma WFB1 GrandpaSTnD
Mom WFB1

Other side:
G GrandmaWFB1 GPAWFB1
Grandma WFB2 GPa WFB1
Dad WFB1.5

You can see the lineage on the "Other Side"has more WFB than the one on the Top Three out of the four great grandparents are wfb, where the one on the left which I didn't show the Great grandparents. but there are only one great grandparent that is wfb and that is on the grandma's side. This would make the joey out of the mom and dad a 2.5 gen WFB.

This is a good topic, but I have always felt from certain WFB lines there is a strength of gene. I have a 2nd generation pair that produced 11 joeys and they were all wfb. Their son, produced 7 out 7, their granddaughter - 7 out of 7, and the great grandson who is a 3.5 generation is with a 100% Leu Het Platinum has produced 5 out of 5 WFB. This WFB lineage is very strong and with that being said, I would think that a 3.5 gen male that produced only wfb babies with a normal would not be producing a 1st gen wfb, but possibly a second generation, particularly when paired with a 100% leu het whose gene is recessive.


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Re: WFB generation question... [Re: Sheila] #459517
01/23/08 12:11 PM
01/23/08 12:11 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
Quote:
This WFB lineage is very strong and with that being said, I would think that a 3.5 gen male that produced only wfb babies with a normal would not be producing a 1st gen wfb, but possibly a second generation, particularly when paired with a 100% leu het whose gene is recessive.


The problem I see here Sheila is that who's to say what constitutes a "strong gene" and how would a "newbie" justify making that claim? I see many that would try to take advantage of others as far as making the sales or the prices they charge.

It simply is what it is.... Because the offspring gets half their genetic material from each parent, you can not claim that because your 4th gen has never produced a standard, even though paired with a standard, that the wf that is produced is a higher gen than a 1st. (though I guess it would be fair to say 1+ in a case like this but definatly not a 2nd gen)

1st gen + standard = 1st gen
1st gen + 1st gen = 2 gen
1st gen + 2nd gen = 2.5
1st gen + 3rd gen = 2.75
2nd gen + 6th gen = 3+ gen. (would be close to a 4th but not quite there)


In your model above, if Mom is a 1st gen and Dad is a 1.5 gen, the offspring would be 2.25 gen not 2.5.


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Re: WFB generation question... [Re: Dancing] #459649
01/23/08 03:01 PM
01/23/08 03:01 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 879
Northeast TN bordering VA/NC
Bubbles8i8 Offline
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Bubbles8i8  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 879
Northeast TN bordering VA/NC
With a dominant gene like WF, to produce ONLY WF babies, one parent would have to be homozygous for the gene. The only way a glider could be homozygous for the gene, thus producing all WF, is if he had two white face parents that both passed the gene to him.

smile


Jenny tounge

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Re: WFB generation question... [Re: Bubbles8i8] #459663
01/23/08 03:25 PM
01/23/08 03:25 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 879
Northeast TN bordering VA/NC
Bubbles8i8 Offline
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Bubbles8i8  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 879
Northeast TN bordering VA/NC
I made Punnett squares to show the inheritance. It is easier this way.


For this purpose, the WF gene is A, non-WF is a. Because the WF gene is dominant, you only need one "A" for the glider to be WF, but you can have two "AA" and get the same result. AA WF gliders are homozygous for the trait, which means they will produce 100% WF babies, even when paired with a gray glider.

Aa = heterozygous WF
AA = homozygous WF
aa = gray


Gray x Gray

Results in 100% gray


Heterozygous WF x Gray

Results in 50% heterozygous WF
+ 50% gray


Heterozygous WF x Heterozygous WF

Results in 25% homozygous WF
+ 50% heterozygous WF
+25% gray


Homozygous WF x Gray

Results in 100% heterozygous WF


Homozygous WF x Heterozygous WF

Results in 50% heterozygous WF
+ 50% homozygous WF

Homozygous WF x Homozygous WF

Results in 100% homozygous WF

Last edited by Bubbles8i8; 01/23/08 03:31 PM.

Jenny tounge

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:glider: Ruckus & Mayhem
:glider: Adonis & Persephone & Aphrodite
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