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BEW color opinions #459665
01/23/08 04:26 PM
01/23/08 04:26 PM
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 803
Ontario, Canada
scraptilldawn Offline OP
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scraptilldawn  Offline OP
Glider Guardian

Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 803
Ontario, Canada
I've been pondering with the influx of BEW and het joeys being born in recent months what do you think will happen to the value of the color within the next year?

Re: BEW color opinions [Re: scraptilldawn] #459666
01/23/08 04:28 PM
01/23/08 04:28 PM
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,725
Upstate NY
glidergrl1513 Offline
Serious Glideritis
glidergrl1513  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 5,725
Upstate NY
I think the price will decrease, although I have no idea how much.

Re: BEW color opinions [Re: glidergrl1513] #459670
01/23/08 04:32 PM
01/23/08 04:32 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,645
Ohio
Guerita135 Offline
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Guerita135  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,645
Ohio
I agree, I think the price will decrease.

After a while I think the BEWs with the "cleanest" lineages will be more valuable while the ones who are too inbred will decrease in value since most ethical breeders will not want them in their breeding programs.

Know what I mean?

That's just my opinion though. wink


~Nicole~

Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy! grin
Re: BEW color opinions [Re: Guerita135] #459673
01/23/08 04:39 PM
01/23/08 04:39 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 879
Northeast TN bordering VA/NC
Bubbles8i8 Offline
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Bubbles8i8  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 879
Northeast TN bordering VA/NC
I agree with Guerita.

When I produce Leucistic joeys, I want to offer them at a much lower price than most. I want them to be affordable.

smile


Jenny tounge

Wife to Josh, Mom to Taylor heart

:glider: Coo & Chimera
:glider: Ruckus & Mayhem
:glider: Adonis & Persephone & Aphrodite
www.animalhobby.com

Taylor's Sailors
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Re: BEW color opinions [Re: Bubbles8i8] #459687
01/23/08 04:56 PM
01/23/08 04:56 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,645
Ohio
Guerita135 Offline
Glider Addict
Guerita135  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,645
Ohio
Originally Posted By: Bubbles8i8
When I produce Leucistic joeys, I want to offer them at a much lower price than most. I want them to be affordable.


That's what I wanted to do, til people pointed out that there are sickos out there that may try and take advantage of that. frown

What people recommended to me was to neuter the males and sell them at lowered prices rather then just selling them "as-is". With females it's too much of a risk, IMO. Unless you're selling them to a friend, then you'll KNOW if they breed em behine your back or something.


~Nicole~

Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy! grin
Re: BEW color opinions [Re: Guerita135] #459689
01/23/08 04:57 PM
01/23/08 04:57 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,664
Hudson Valley, NY
krysKritters Offline
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krysKritters  Offline
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Posts: 2,664
Hudson Valley, NY
Originally Posted By: Guerita135
After a while I think the BEWs with the "cleanest" lineages will be more valuable while the ones who are too inbred will decrease in value since most ethical breeders will not want them in their breeding programs.

agree Unfortunatley there are those unethical breeders who will only see $$$ and buy the cheapest colors they can find to breed. cry They will not care about how clean the lineage is. shakehead

I fear that will cause a lot of problems for the gliders...
Poor genes, health problems, unwanted gliders, more colors easily obtained by mills, What's left????
...colors sold at flea markets... cry

While I am sad the colors are so expensive (that I & other good homes, may never own one) I am also relieved and glad at the same time. If it is hard to obtain them, then they are less likely to be mistreated/disposable.
That's just my 2 cents.


Krys DeRosa
Godfather of the NY Glider Mafia

KrysKritters.comcloud9

A child with Autism is not ignoring you, they are waiting for you to enter their world.
Re: BEW color opinions [Re: Bubbles8i8] #459694
01/23/08 05:04 PM
01/23/08 05:04 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,594
Youngstown, Ohio
TheGliderPlayroom Offline
Glider Slave
TheGliderPlayroom  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,594
Youngstown, Ohio
I think prices will slowly drop, over the next few years, to possibly between $1,000 to $1,500 for females. Leu prices have been pretty consistent for at least three or four years, even with more and more being produced. Het prices however are at an all time low, most likely because more people want white right off than to try to produce their own. Most likely the price drops will start privately, with prices still staying high publicly (on ads, webpages, etc.).

Wanting to sell leus affordably is a very understandable goal. However, in practice it's a LOT more tricky. Once you run out of friends and people you trust implicitly, your choices are either to stop breeding or give in and sell to a home that may or may not be ideal. I've seen some great breeders get desperate when the joeys hit 10-12 weeks OOP with no interest and no home in sight, and take the first person with a real offer. Sometimes you will get the people that see a cheap glider as a way to make more of a profit, either by reselling the original glider, or by getting any mate available and breeding as much as possible. Other times your ad may be passed over just because people see super low prices and see a possible scammer. Many scammers in the past have offered "hets" for super cheap and just sent normal colored gliders, or stole photos of leus and attempted to sell gliders they never owned at all, hoping that people would jump at the low price and not stop to question if the glider even really existed in the first place.



Helen
The Glider Playroom
PSG/Sugar Glider Database
Vice-President of the NE.O.B.B.C.
Re: BEW color opinions [Re: TheGliderPlayroom] #459696
01/23/08 05:11 PM
01/23/08 05:11 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,645
Ohio
Guerita135 Offline
Glider Addict
Guerita135  Offline
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,645
Ohio
I read somewhere about a breeder selling hets at the regular price, but with a contract. The contract was that if the het produced a leu, then the buyer would have to pay the rbeeder the rest that was due as if he/she had been sold a 100% leu het.

I think that's a wonderful idea! It's risky since you have to be careful who you sell to, but I think if more breeders would do that then hets would sell better. However, I think that all hets should be the same price(maybe $1000) if they turn out to be 100% hets, no matter what the percentage originally was.

What do ya'll think? I'm considering doing that for my future hets(if anyone's is interested in them), otherwise they'll just given to people I know and trust or sold as standards to pet only homes.


~Nicole~

Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy! grin
Re: BEW color opinions [Re: Guerita135] #459704
01/23/08 05:20 PM
01/23/08 05:20 PM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 879
Northeast TN bordering VA/NC
Bubbles8i8 Offline
Glider Guardian
Bubbles8i8  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 879
Northeast TN bordering VA/NC
Private pricing has already dropped. I know of a leu being sold for $1500. There is also a leu female being sold for $1800 shipped, publicly, here on GC. She is the sister to the boy I'm getting, OOP on Halloween.


Jenny tounge

Wife to Josh, Mom to Taylor heart

:glider: Coo & Chimera
:glider: Ruckus & Mayhem
:glider: Adonis & Persephone & Aphrodite
www.animalhobby.com

Taylor's Sailors
Cages, Toys, Wheels, Pouches, Treats
Re: BEW color opinions [Re: Bubbles8i8] #459711
01/23/08 05:29 PM
01/23/08 05:29 PM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,594
Youngstown, Ohio
TheGliderPlayroom Offline
Glider Slave
TheGliderPlayroom  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,594
Youngstown, Ohio
Originally Posted By: Bubbles8i8
There is also a leu female being sold for $1800 shipped, publicly, here on GC. She is the sister to the boy I'm getting, OOP on Halloween.


Again- lineage. The parents of those twins are first cousins- unacceptable for many people that may want to breed. And more so, first cousins with one of the great-grandparents being out of a brother/sister pairing.


Helen
The Glider Playroom
PSG/Sugar Glider Database
Vice-President of the NE.O.B.B.C.
Re: BEW color opinions [Re: TheGliderPlayroom] #459715
01/23/08 05:33 PM
01/23/08 05:33 PM

S
SugarGlidersOnl
Unregistered
SugarGlidersOnl
Unregistered
S



prices have already decreased by about $800 for a leucistic

Re: BEW color opinions [Re: TheGliderPlayroom] #459747
01/23/08 06:16 PM
01/23/08 06:16 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,801
SE Minnesota..
GliderLove Offline
Glider Addict
GliderLove  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,801
SE Minnesota..
Originally Posted By: TheGliderPlayroom
Originally Posted By: Bubbles8i8
There is also a leu female being sold for $1800 shipped, publicly, here on GC. She is the sister to the boy I'm getting, OOP on Halloween.


Again- lineage. The parents of those twins are first cousins- unacceptable for many people that may want to breed. And more so, first cousins with one of the great-grandparents being out of a brother/sister pairing.


That's scary! That's why I feel I have done my best in searching for good well known breeders that I can trust, for my Leu het babies..Anita, and Sheila! laugh


Cindy
Mom to
Jae, Ashton, Briannah, Nevaeh & Addy

& all my fuzzies!
Breeder of Leu's, Mosaics, wfb, and standard grey's.
Owner of www.MySugarAddiction.com

:rtmo: :leu:

Re: BEW color opinions [Re: GliderLove] #459750
01/23/08 06:19 PM
01/23/08 06:19 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,936
Ohio, between Dayton and Cinci...
pebbles1975 Offline
Glider Slave
pebbles1975  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,936
Ohio, between Dayton and Cinci...
Cindy, that is so true. I wish I would have known Sheila a year ago when i decided to buy gliders. But at least now I have her to help me get my breeding program back on track.


Angie

Harmony :rtmo: , Kahne :wfb: ,
Navaeh :leu: , and Nova :rtmo:
Marsh: albino/creme Het , Mellow: Albino

http://www.freewebs.com/clementsgliders/index.htm
Re: BEW color opinions [Re: pebbles1975] #459764
01/23/08 06:29 PM
01/23/08 06:29 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,224
North Fort Worth - TX
jacknsally Offline
Glider Addict
jacknsally  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,224
North Fort Worth - TX
a little off_topic but why are they called BEW & Leus? Or am I thinking that 2 different colors is one?


Ñancy
~Always on my mind & in my heart Jack, Sally & Serenity~


Mobmilli's Boutique
Re: BEW color opinions [Re: jacknsally] #459769
01/23/08 06:33 PM
01/23/08 06:33 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 8,366
Quincy, IL 62305
Lynsie Offline
Serious Glideritis
Lynsie  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 8,366
Quincy, IL 62305
BEW is Black Eyed White and Leu is short for Leucistic, they are both the same color glider.

Re: BEW color opinions [Re: jacknsally] #459773
01/23/08 06:37 PM
01/23/08 06:37 PM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,697
Phoenix, AZ
SugarBaby22 Offline
Serious Glideritis
SugarBaby22  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,697
Phoenix, AZ
A BEW is a "black eyed white".. the same thing as a LEU.. or leucistic. thumb


Linda
Re: BEW color opinions [Re: SugarBaby22] #459780
01/23/08 06:41 PM
01/23/08 06:41 PM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,697
Phoenix, AZ
SugarBaby22 Offline
Serious Glideritis
SugarBaby22  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 5,697
Phoenix, AZ
Whoops.. my computer delayed the reply. lol


Linda
Re: BEW color opinions [Re: Lynsie] #459791
01/23/08 06:51 PM
01/23/08 06:51 PM
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 5,363
Ok
Sheila Offline
Serious Glideritis
Sheila  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 5,363
Ok
There are a number of reasons I will reduce a glider. One is because I really like the home they are going to and it is not all about money to them. Two if someone is a repeat customer or is purchasing a pair. Three is because if a glider is a possible het and doesn't carry the gene because of its coloring, I will reduce. If I believe it has the het coloring, I will not reduce, but stand firm. Four is because the joey is not as tame as I would like and sometimes this happens when you have joeys past 8 weeks that are not sold. I will reduce my gliders privately but not if the buyer plays me by telling me that they got one somewhere else for a better price. I had someone say this to me recently and then they later let is slip that they payed full price from the other breeder. This is the first time I have had Leu het or Albino hets that didn't sell by the time they are 8 weeks. I still am getting full price for my Leus. I am breeding some of my Leu hets with WFB or normals. I am very happy with the color I have gotten from them. I am hoping to keep one of these joeys in the future, just don't have space right now. cool


ToandFro Gliders

http://www.toandfrogliders.com

USDA Licensed breeder for 12 years and counting!

WE SELL THE STEALTH WHEEL
Re: BEW color opinions [Re: Sheila] #459798
01/23/08 07:01 PM
01/23/08 07:01 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,645
Ohio
Guerita135 Offline
Glider Addict
Guerita135  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,645
Ohio
You're a perfect example Sheila!

I think, no matter what, people will still pay the higher prices for leus from breeders like you because they KNOW that the lineage is clean(or as clean as possible) and that you take good care of your babies. wink


~Nicole~

Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy! grin
Re: BEW color opinions [Re: Guerita135] #459852
01/23/08 07:53 PM
01/23/08 07:53 PM
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 5,363
Ok
Sheila Offline
Serious Glideritis
Sheila  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 5,363
Ok
oh my, well I have made my mistakes, but no one is perfect.


ToandFro Gliders

http://www.toandfrogliders.com

USDA Licensed breeder for 12 years and counting!

WE SELL THE STEALTH WHEEL
Re: BEW color opinions [Re: Sheila] #459950
01/23/08 09:55 PM
01/23/08 09:55 PM

N
NickieDo
Unregistered
NickieDo
Unregistered
N



I think, in a few years, if i decide to purchase a leu, i will look for clean lines from a good breeder. Price would not be as much of a factor as the health of the glider.

Re: BEW color opinions [Re: ] #459966
01/23/08 10:15 PM
01/23/08 10:15 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,645
Ohio
Guerita135 Offline
Glider Addict
Guerita135  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,645
Ohio
I think you summed it up very well NikieDo. wink

People who truelly care about their gliders look at the price as an afterthought. Lineage should be the #1 concern.


~Nicole~

Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy! grin
Re: BEW color opinions [Re: ] #459975
01/23/08 10:21 PM
01/23/08 10:21 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,801
SE Minnesota..
GliderLove Offline
Glider Addict
GliderLove  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,801
SE Minnesota..
Originally Posted By: NickieDo
I think, in a few years, if i decide to purchase a leu, i will look for clean lines from a good breeder. Price would not be as much of a factor as the health of the glider.


That was the first and foremost important thing to me when I started looking for my Leu Het pair. thumb


Cindy
Mom to
Jae, Ashton, Briannah, Nevaeh & Addy

& all my fuzzies!
Breeder of Leu's, Mosaics, wfb, and standard grey's.
Owner of www.MySugarAddiction.com

:rtmo: :leu:

Re: BEW color opinions [Re: Bubbles8i8] #460705
01/24/08 11:00 PM
01/24/08 11:00 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,801
SE Minnesota..
GliderLove Offline
Glider Addict
GliderLove  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,801
SE Minnesota..
Originally Posted By: Bubbles8i8
Private pricing has already dropped. I know of a leu being sold for $1500. There is also a leu female being sold for $1800 shipped, publicly, here on GC. She is the sister to the boy I'm getting, OOP on Halloween.


Are you going to be breeding this glider? He is a cutie, but that lineage would be scary to breed to me...


Cindy
Mom to
Jae, Ashton, Briannah, Nevaeh & Addy

& all my fuzzies!
Breeder of Leu's, Mosaics, wfb, and standard grey's.
Owner of www.MySugarAddiction.com

:rtmo: :leu:

Re: BEW color opinions [Re: GliderLove] #460731
01/24/08 11:27 PM
01/24/08 11:27 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,645
Ohio
Guerita135 Offline
Glider Addict
Guerita135  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 4,645
Ohio
Hmm...I didn't even see that because the breeder only posted half the lineage. :/

Did she get the girl from the "halloween twins"? If so, then aren't the granparents brother and sister? eek!


~Nicole~

Proudly enslaved by lots of silly suggies, 3 crazy kitties, a huffy hedgie, and a pretty puppy! grin
Re: BEW color opinions [Re: Guerita135] #460746
01/24/08 11:58 PM
01/24/08 11:58 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,801
SE Minnesota..
GliderLove Offline
Glider Addict
GliderLove  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 4,801
SE Minnesota..
Yes, I think those are the ones she is reffering too. dunno


Cindy
Mom to
Jae, Ashton, Briannah, Nevaeh & Addy

& all my fuzzies!
Breeder of Leu's, Mosaics, wfb, and standard grey's.
Owner of www.MySugarAddiction.com

:rtmo: :leu:

Re: BEW color opinions [Re: GliderLove] #460829
01/25/08 01:26 AM
01/25/08 01:26 AM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 879
Northeast TN bordering VA/NC
Bubbles8i8 Offline
Glider Guardian
Bubbles8i8  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 879
Northeast TN bordering VA/NC
Yes, he will be bred. The offspring that will be released to the public will be out of a totally unrelated female WF with no Leu in her lines.

His inbreeding coefficient is only 21.094.








Jenny tounge

Wife to Josh, Mom to Taylor heart

:glider: Coo & Chimera
:glider: Ruckus & Mayhem
:glider: Adonis & Persephone & Aphrodite
www.animalhobby.com

Taylor's Sailors
Cages, Toys, Wheels, Pouches, Treats
Re: BEW color opinions [Re: Bubbles8i8] #460833
01/25/08 01:28 AM
01/25/08 01:28 AM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
ValkyrieMome  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
hey, Jenny -

What's a breeding coefficient? I have never heard that expression. sounds like some sort of calculation ... would love to know more!


Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
Re: BEW color opinions [Re: ValkyrieMome] #460852
01/25/08 01:42 AM
01/25/08 01:42 AM
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 879
Northeast TN bordering VA/NC
Bubbles8i8 Offline
Glider Guardian
Bubbles8i8  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 879
Northeast TN bordering VA/NC
It is basicly how inbred he is. My pedigree program calculates it for me.


Jenny tounge

Wife to Josh, Mom to Taylor heart

:glider: Coo & Chimera
:glider: Ruckus & Mayhem
:glider: Adonis & Persephone & Aphrodite
www.animalhobby.com

Taylor's Sailors
Cages, Toys, Wheels, Pouches, Treats
Re: BEW color opinions [Re: Bubbles8i8] #460872
01/25/08 02:00 AM
01/25/08 02:00 AM
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,594
Youngstown, Ohio
TheGliderPlayroom Offline
Glider Slave
TheGliderPlayroom  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 1,594
Youngstown, Ohio
Originally Posted By: Bubbles8i8

His inbreeding coefficient is only 21.094.


"Only" 21%? A brother to sister pairing produces 26%... 21% is VERY inbred! IMHO even pairing to a non-leu line female doesn't make up for his lineage.

I don't understand why people feel the need to breed these drastically inbred gliders. Why not just look for a joey that has better lines? Although, even worse is that people feel the need to set up pairs that produce these very much inbred joeys...


Helen
The Glider Playroom
PSG/Sugar Glider Database
Vice-President of the NE.O.B.B.C.
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