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Pregnant Colony #47182
05/25/05 03:01 PM
05/25/05 03:01 PM

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Okay folks, I am sure that I will get some flak for this, but please try to bear with me as I explain my situation. I need some serious experienced advice FAST!

[:"red"] NO FLAMES PLEASE! [/]

On Saturday May the 21st, I received a phone call from an individual who was wanting to relinquish their sugar gliders. I agreed.

There are four (4) total. Three (3) females and one (1) male. They are all standard gray sugar gliders and they came with their original cage.

However, the problem is I was completely unaware that all three (3) females were pregnant! God, I was in tears when the previous owner just casually threw in that after-thought. Babies. I have NEVER had babies! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crying.gif" alt="" />

As their second glider-mom, at first I did not feel comfortable separating them since they were all originally housed together. They are a bonded colony.

However, with the damage already done, I went ahead and separated the male into his own cage until his neuter appointment. He is not happy about the temporary living arrangements, but it had to be done.

Now the three (3) pregnant girls will be single-parents. This is a problem. However, I did NOT want to leave the male in the same cage as the females, because I do NOT want him to re-pregnant the girls immediately after they give birth.

You know, carrying the first litter IP and have a second litter in utero. One (1) pregnancy each is enough for me. Thanks.

The other question I have is since these three (3) girls got pregnant around the same time (by the same male) they could very well give birth around the same time too. Will they eat other's babies? Will they pose a threat to each other?

The three (3) girls that are pregnant are NOT blood-related and the male had no genetic connection with them either until now.

Do you think I should separate the three (3) pregnant females and place each one in her own individual, private cage? I figured that would be too much stress, on top of being a single-parent, and opt to keep them together.

All four (4) gliders have been housed together all of their life, so they have already bonded to each other, but I do not know if the bond is strong enough to accept the new babies. I do not want them to start killing them (which is a risk with ANY pregnancy.)

I have travel cages on stand-by for immediate/temporary removal of the mom and her babies, but the stress of this decision (if I need to do it) may cause her to reject her babies if not cannibalize them.

One (1) pregnancy I think I could handle, but a pregnant colony? I just do not know how to handle the situation! I am trying to go slow, easing into the relocation process, and treating this fragile situation with some finesse, but I am completely out of my element here.

Also, I fully understand that the risks of losing all three (3) pregnancies are extremely high; therefore, I am prepared for that possibility too.

All three (3) pregnant females have adjusted quite nicely to the separation arrangements involving the male and they still eat and sleep together.

Currently, the three (3) girls are happy with each other. Can I expect their attitude and/or behavior to change toward each other as the pregnancies advance or when the babies are OOP (if they survive that long)?

Pregnancy is something that I am just NOT familiar with at ALL! Even with my kids (kitties) I have absolutely NEVER had a single litter. All of my kids, both male and female, were spayed/neutered at four (4) months of age.

I had the operation performed two (2) months earlier than what is currently recommend just to guarantee that my girls would not go into "heat" and attract the males into getting them pregnant.

I have been a cat-mom for over six (6) years now and to NEVER have a single litter among my kids is quite impressive, but at the same time, it leaves me rusty on the entire pregnancy issue. Due to my obsessive spay/neuter priorities, I am just not experienced in this area.

Me and my husband are looking at pregnancy, after nearly a decade of not having ANY babies! Talk about a reality-check! This is scary stuff! My whole world is about to be turned upside down! Do you have any advice? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thanx.gif" alt="" />

P.S. For the GC members who do not yet know me. I have been a glider-mom for over two (2) years now. This "pregnant" colony is NOT my "first glider." I am an experienced glider guardian who is very adamant about my glider's welfare. Unfortunately, since I do not breed, I know very little about sugar glider pregnancy, hence this post.

Re: Pregnant Colony [Re: ] #47183
05/25/05 03:09 PM
05/25/05 03:09 PM

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Hmmm, that is a tricky situation. If it were me, I would keep the colony together. There are risks in all situations, but I see the least risk if kept together. Yes, there may be baby stealing, and there may be baby nibbling - or they may completely leave eachother's babies alone. It's so hard to say. But if you separate them, they all may lose the babies due to stress & they themselves may get sick due to stress. I also would not separate the Dad. He will play a vital role in raising the babies, and you wouldn't want to stress him out either by all of a sudden turning him into a lone glider. As you know, stress can trigger depression & SM behavior in males especially. So, even though you risk loss or nibbling of babies and even another round of pregnancy, IMO - it's better than risking the lives of ALL gliders involved.

Re: Pregnant Colony [Re: ] #47184
05/25/05 03:14 PM
05/25/05 03:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 11,158
Tampa, FL
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Tampa, FL
I was thinking the same thing … Leaving the Dad in with the others, but I am not experienced in joeys myself either … so I will leave this to those that have more experience…


* ~ * John * ~ * Sorry store is closed at this time.. <br>
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Oct 2012 update.. miss my gliders and my
glider family and think of my friends often!!!
Re: Pregnant Colony [Re: ] #47185
05/25/05 03:18 PM
05/25/05 03:18 PM

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</font><blockquote><font class="small">Quote:</font><hr />
The other question I have is since these three (3) girls got pregnant around the same time (by the same male) they could very well give birth around the same time too. Will they eat other's babies? Will they pose a threat to each other?

The three (3) girls that are pregnant are NOT blood-related and the male had no genetic connection with them either until now.

<hr /></blockquote><font class="post">
They might have problems with each others babies, and they may not, best thing you can do is wait until they give you ample reason to believe they should be separated. being blood related sisters from the same litter would increase the likelihood that they'd get along, but even if they aren't blood related things can still work out just fine. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumb.gif" alt="" />

I've got a trio now and the sisters are not related and they both take excellent care of each others babies!

If you are able to keep them together, they will help raise each others babies and it'll be one big happy family. hopefully neutered pops will be able to rejoin his family soon!

Re: Pregnant Colony [Re: ] #47186
05/25/05 03:25 PM
05/25/05 03:25 PM

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Gina,

Thanks Sweetie! I sincerely appreciate the advice. I will see what I can do about possibly leaving the male in with the girls.

I understand about the male playing a supportive role with the pregnancy and how if separated he could self-mutilate.

However, at the same time, I really cannot handle any more babies. Three (3) pregnancies at the same time (which could result in six (6) new additions) is enough for me. Talk about jumping in head first! There was absolutely no easing into this situation at all!

See why I was so interested in your Nosey Nursery? LOL. <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />

Re: Pregnant Colony [Re: ] #47187
05/25/05 03:33 PM
05/25/05 03:33 PM

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Ernie,

That is so GREAT to hear! I want SO MUCH for the girls to help take care of each other's babies. I realize that this may be too much to ask, but it is what I am hoping for.

And yes. The father will most definitely be reunited with his err...three (3) girlfriends? LOL asap! Once the neuter is complete and the recovery-time has been met, he is back with his incredibly LARGE family!

Thanks so much!

Re: Pregnant Colony [Re: ] #47188
05/25/05 03:41 PM
05/25/05 03:41 PM

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I guess the best option is to get him neutered as soon as possible and get him back with his girls.

Re: Pregnant Colony [Re: ] #47189
05/25/05 04:11 PM
05/25/05 04:11 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,356
Austin, TX
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Posts: 7,356
Austin, TX
I don't have much advice, put in as many separate sleeping areas as you think you need, so they have their own place to go if they want it. How big is the cage? In a few weeks you may have 10 gliders in it. Is it big enough?
Wow, that is going to be a handful. Good luck!


Shawna
Who are you networked with? Networking could save your gliders life. Create one now.

Re: Pregnant Colony [Re: ] #47190
05/25/05 06:05 PM
05/25/05 06:05 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
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80 acres of paradise in KS
Wow, Dad will sure have his hands full! It is so hard to say how they will react to each other's joeys. I have had a joey born into a colony and each member of the colony took turns taking care of the joey. But that was only one joey.
I agree, Dad needs to be returned to the colony as soon as possible, not only for his sake but for the girls too.

Please keep us updated on the progress of your situation as I see great learning experience potential here.


620-704-9109
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I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: Pregnant Colony [Re: ] #47191
05/25/05 09:46 PM
05/25/05 09:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 5,363
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Ok
Do not separate the females. They will help babysit each other's babies. It will be easier to re-introduce the male, but you will have to wait until all babies are weaned and gone.


ToandFro Gliders

http://www.toandfrogliders.com

USDA Licensed breeder for 12 years and counting!

WE SELL THE STEALTH WHEEL
Re: Pregnant Colony [Re: ] #47192
05/26/05 04:09 PM
05/26/05 04:09 PM

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To all the GC members who are interested.

Here is some background information pertaining to the "pregnant colony." These figures are only approximate dates, so my calculations could be off by a few weeks. I will be able to better confirm these dates when the babies are OOP.

All three (3) girls became pregnant on or before April 15th, 2005.

The births occurred on or around May 1st, 2005. From April 15th to May 1st is exactly sixteen (16) days. Gestation is only sixteen (16) days long.

Today 5-26-05 all three (3) girls have a "knot" in their pouches; therefore, all babies are currently in pouch a.k.a. ip.

The knot is about the size of an almond indicatinng to me that the babies are about a month old ip. (I have no idea what a month old ip baby looks like, so this is an approximate calculation.)

So far I can only see (when they climb the cage bars) one (1) knot on each girl. Now whether this means that they will only have one (1) joey a piece or there simply has not been enough time for the other to develop, I do not know.

I was also told that since the joeys are so incredibly tiny and that the monther's nipples are so close togther, there can easily be two (2) joeys side-by-side (representing one (1) knot) and that I would not be able to tell if there were truly two (2) joeys ip until they develop more fully.

Either way, there is only one (1) knot per glider. Now whether that will remain as one (1) joey or eventually turn into two (2), I have no idea. I suppose I will have to wait and see.

In conclusion, if the births actually did occur on May 1st, 2005 then the babies could be OOP as early as June 30th, 2005. That is sixty (60) days ip.

However, if the babies are ip for seventy (70) days, then they will be OOP on July 10th, 2005.

Whew! Not bad for a first glider pregnecy huh? Smiles. My mind has been like a sponge ever since Saturday May 21st, 2005. I have literally been absorbing all the information that I can find via internet, books, glider-guardians, etc. Yeah, I have been pretty busy.

Did I miss anything? Does anyone have anything else to add?

P.S. Oh yeah! I know NOT to remove the joeys from the parents any time before eight (8) weeks old. Therefore, eight (8) weeks OOP is considered weaned.

Re: Pregnant Colony- UPDATE [Re: ] #47193
05/26/05 07:50 PM
05/26/05 07:50 PM

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OMG! Help!

I just saw a baby foot sticking out of one (1) of the girls! I do not know whether to laugh or cry! Its too soon for limbs to be emerging! This cannot be a good thing.

If my calculations are correct they are only three (3) weeks and three (3) days into the 60/70 day ip stage! I sould not be able to see limbs yet right?!

OMG! OMG! What do I do? Is the joey(s) okay? It was SOOOO tiny and pink! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worried2.gif" alt="" />

Re: Pregnant Colony- UPDATE [Re: ] #47194
05/26/05 10:27 PM
05/26/05 10:27 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,356
Austin, TX
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Serious Glideritis
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Joined: May 2005
Posts: 7,356
Austin, TX
Start a new post--wait, I'll do it for you!!


Shawna
Who are you networked with? Networking could save your gliders life. Create one now.


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