As far as I know you can be arrested for handing out information right next to their booth. You can however, sit outside on public property and hand out information.

My only warning is make sure of recording laws in your state. Some states are single party, ie you can video tape regardless. Some states like michigan are single party for video but two party for audio. Ie both parties must know the conversation is being taped. If you do not do this, the tape is not evidence and also you can be charged with wire taping fraud. Just a friendly FYI.

Also this entire thing aggravates me to no end, I talked to the people at the Mi state fair, and if they show up this year, i will take soem kind of action, don't know what yet, but ill think of something by then.

Ok, everyone is saying to tell these poor impulse buyers the "truth", but how do you PROVE that the diet/caging/handling information that (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets is handing out is FALSE? It's one thing to go, "gliders need lots of space to glide and play in" and another to go, "the reason gliders need a minimum of xyz space is because of this proven study etc" - these (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets people sound like they're doing what WE do, but using THEIR information. They say you can feed them ferret/cat food, we say they need a special diet, but without anything to back that up people will still buy cat & ferret food because it's cheaper and easier than making a special diet.

I love the idea of using vet records and statements to prove the point - it will look much better than just saying, "but they're WRONG!" and only having "opinion" to back it up. Find USDA regulations on cage sizes, find articles written by zoos and universities, anything that can be brought as legit, because (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets will not listen to someone taking away their business who has nothing to back it up but hearsay and no proven facts!

This is so frustrating, I've never seen suggies at a flea market, only in pet shops, and it sounds like this (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets corporation is just there for profit because if it CAN sell, they WILL sell it. They certainly know how to make it appeal to ANY impulse buyer (cheap to feed! doesn't take up space! no smell! quiet! no vets needed!), it's like watching a horrific infomercial.

OT- LAurie,Im sorry i missed that show! I had to work and my sister had her baby

Anyway, i have some of my vet bills from tail amputation,eye surgery and neuterings if anyone wants a copy for proof of expenses. Ive kept records of all the babies ive had to take to the vet under my care rescues and personal....by no means are there little to no vet costs!
They ARE messy and arenot easy to take care of.

Im so glad more people are helping to get these mills shut down!

Barbara did you get your gliders from Perfect Pocket Pets? If so, I would like a copy of those vet bills relating to those gliders! I'm glad you have kept the records!

no, i misunderstood what kind of information you was wanting. No these guys werenot from (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets- but were rescues some of which originated from glidersrus though.
I thought you was just wanting bills to show how expensive the vet bills could be.

Mine were bought at wolfcase mall in germantown, tn sold to my 17 yr. old daughter she spent all of our xmas money 745.00 i sent all kinds of letters complaining and i have emails complaining to Pocket Pets and they both had an infection but it wasent called guardia thank god i fell into this site i believe they would be dead by now they even emailed back sayin that others wanted to buy more pets and that they were going to be at a lawn and garden show a few weeks later in germantown i was sick to my stomach
I will help in any way i can

luddiedi

I was on craigslist and i found that someone was selling under age gliders. Here is the link http://eauclaire.craigslist.org/pet/601583660.html. They look way to small to be taken away from mom and dad. Its sad how people can do that to them .

Barbara- It's okay that you misunderstood. You had very good intentions and I appreciate you wanting to help.

Luddiedi did you find the emails and letters to the mall and (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets? Your information will be very useful for me as to reasons they shouldn't be allowed to come!

The public is not allowed to interupt their business in any way. They have the upper hand or so they think anyhow. Of course, it's not breaking any laws if you have your own gliders with you and people ask you questions about them on their own as long as you're not standing in front of their booth......don't obstruct them in any way and don't seek out their customers.

I had a BALL this weekend contradicting every word they said. That's what is so great about us having a booth at these events. They can't do a thing. We're not breaking any laws and I'm minding my own business.

I am the one collecting the information on ALL the mill breeders - needing vet bills and such.

Yes, that would be very helpful to me.

Edit: I'm sorry, I did sort of camp onto this thread with my own, separate requests. I understand the confusion.

Here is the sad truth...the cages only have to be large enough for the animal to stand up and turn around in. That means a 1 foot x 1 foot x 1 foot cube. And that is for 2 gliders.

We all know that is not adequate but we have to get the USDA to change the laws and so far, that hasn't happened.

As a community, we can't all even agree on what is minimum size required for a pair of gliders.

We do say, 2 foot x 2 foot x 3 feet tall, which is 20,736 cubic inches, is minimal but...I personally use 30 x 18 x 36 (19,440 c.i.) or 55 (29,700 c.i.) per pair.

If we could all agree that the minimum should be 15,000 cubic inches, for 1 or 2 gliders, then maybe, just maybe we can get somewhere with the USDA on cage size requirements.

That's a problem there.. unfortunately (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets can go, "well where's your proof they need this much space? our customers don't have that kind of room and OUR suggies are just FINE in these small cages, so you're wrong!" :/ I wish there was a way to change the regulations, it would be so great if things ran the way they're supposed to.

try putting these breeders in cages that accommodates them as well as a 1x1x1 does our furbabies

I wholeheartedly concur! I'd like to stuff that chubby bald guy in a cube that's for sure.....LOL Ohh maybe throw in a heat rock in July and throw in a couple of pellets. I'll even give him an apple slice too.....Hey, they say it's ok for gliders.......

"Ok, everyone is saying to tell these poor impulse buyers the "truth", but how do you PROVE that the diet/caging/handling information that (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets is handing out is FALSE? It's one thing to go, "gliders need lots of space to glide and play in" and another to go, "the reason gliders need a minimum of xyz space is because of this proven study etc" - these (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets people sound like they're doing what WE do, but using THEIR information. They say you can feed them ferret/cat food, we say they need a special diet, but without anything to back that up people will still buy cat & ferret food because it's cheaper and easier than making a special diet."

You don't have to tell people the "truth" you simply have to say that ANYONE who says do NOT research I'm the only one who knows anything about these animals has something to hide!!! Anyone who does not want you to seek a second opinion or to look at all the information available so you can make an informed decision has something to hide. It really is that simple. I'm not even saying what I think is the right thing....I just tell them to read EVERYTHING and decide for themselves. Pocket Pets won't do that.

I too am a victim of Pocket Pets here in Florida. I have a whole post on it and if you want vet bills I can give you tons. I can also forward you email's of awful information that they gave me that nearly killed my poor Lillie. This is recent we purchased her on 2/8/08. They won't respond to me but I have everything armed and since they won't refund me I am in the middle of filing a civil case with them. My poor baby had one of the worst cases of Giardia that my vet has ever seen, and I noticed the loose stools the morning after I got her so it wasn't just an oversight and talking to a few other people Lillie wasn't the only one. But if you need info I have the receipts for the vet the receipts for Lillie, the flyer they handed me I have EVERYTHING I just want these poor little critters to be cared for properly and they told me all lies!

has anyone been on their wabsite?? it give info they have some good cages but almost all their info is completely wrong, they even say to not come looking on the internet because most people will give them bad info, i am on the site right now and its so just grrrrrrr thats the only word to explain it

cprrect me if i'm wrong but i though you can give them pine anything, well the site says for the shaving use pine shavings in bold lettering,
isnt that harmful to them??

You should see all the wrong info in the area of their website that you can't access their "family circle" Thats where they tell you if your baby is sick to give him pepto bismol (my vet nearly had a heart attack at this info) and tons of other awful purely wrong information.

Lilleethesugee I most definitely want everything you have! I remember your post. I brought it up to the fair man. He told me that they ((PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets) follow up with customers. I said ohh you mean when the glider comes home with giardia, they say to feed the glider pepto bismol, glider nearly dies, vet saves the day and they stop talking to the customer and take her off the email list, sounds LIKE A GREAT FOLLOW UP TO ME!!!!

I will PM you my email addy. Send me whatever you can find! Emails with (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets, vet bills, whatever!

Is there a way we can get a hold of a zoo in Australia or something that might have cage size and other diet info that would help? I think by doing that it might be our best bet. I remember reading somewhere (I wish I could remember where) that in actuality none of us should own gliders because they need alot more space than most of us can provide. It was put out by one of the zoos so I am wondering if it would help.

I bought my 2 gliders( cage, heat rock 1 yrs worth of pellet food, 1 yrs worth of vitamins, 2 toys for the cage, 2 bonding pouches) from (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets in Colorado at a Home show. Fortunately I got on the internet right after I bought them and realized right away their diet info was way wrong and the cage too small. This has all been recified since purchase in early Jan. My two girls are doing great but they were only on (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets diet for 1 day before I changed diets.

Let me tell you there was huge crowd at their booth and my son got sucked in right away. Of course his mother did too. We spent a fortune on all that stuff.

The only thing I can offer is the receipt of purchase and all the paperwork we got. Fortunately my 2 girls are fine. One of the girls was considerably smaller than the other and was probably too young to have been sold but she ok now. And she is so sweet.

So I would never buy again from anyone( including (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets) and would persue getting one from a rescue if we ever did get another. I have no interest in breeding.

Instead of fighting againstPPP why doesn't someone in the area who knows much about glider care/treatment try to talk with them so at least if they continue to sell (which they probably will) the info given will be correct.
Should I see them again it is my intend to try to talk to the guy and explain that it might be better to "join" in with other glider enthusiasts to make sure his babies are getting the best care, housing etc. for them.
Education is they way to go I think. And of course I have no idea if this already occured and it failed but...thought it was worth a try.
Just my two cents.

Well like MOST animals, we should never own them. THat isn't the point now however. They're here whether we like it or not and we have to do the best we can for them since we've forced them into this existence for our enjoyment.

Lilleethesugar - I'm so sorry for your experience, but rest assured that Lillees case is going to help shut them down. She will not have suffered for nothing and she will be helping all those other babies!!!

As for their website...one thing I noticed is that whenever they have these weekend sales blitzes, their website is "down". I have a theory that they do this on purpose...they hand out their cute lil glossy flyers and tell people to come back later only they don't really want them to go online and read anything about them......they've changed their website to include larger cages and tell people they need a cage that size, but what we witnessed this weekend is them telling people they ONLY need the tiny cage they are providing. Of course, those people go home, log onto their website and see these larger cages......they care only about making that sale and they'll tell them ANYTHING they need to in order to get to it!!

Oh, I'm going to add some stuff to my flyers asking ANYONE who has purchased from them and ended up with a sick glider or rehomed it quickly, etc. to email me so I can document each case!! There are probably so many people who don't even go online about them.

MinMor719...tried and failed. If you even mention that you already have gliders and that you think they're giving out bad information or if they even get wind that you might disagree with them, they'll have you PHYSICALLY removed from the venue!!!

MinMor719- these people are very stubborn and don't want to listen. Fact of the matter is that people see sugar gliders as cute animals that they have never seen before (which is true), but not that many people would buy them if they knew how much work has to be done. So, (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets, not caring about the actual animals themselves and only wanting money sell them off like they are the world's best and easiest pet to take care. Cuter than a hamster and just as easy to take care. They don't want to listen when it comes to telling the correct information because lets face it, they are not easy to take care of like hamsters. They require a lot of work and patience. And like sugiemom said, if you even mention that you have a glider and know they are wrong they immediately right you off, ask you to leave, or like my case, they argue with you. I remember a post on here from awhile ago where the woman noticed there were dehydrated gliders. She told one of the (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets workers who in turned said "ohh ok we will take care of it", she walked over told a guy, the guy comes over and stands right in front of the lady and ignores her. The lady again tells the man that there are some dehydrated gliders. He asks her to leave or he will call the cops. All because she tried to help him and was genuinely concerned about the gliders. But, because she was consider one of these so called "internet experts" that (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets hate, she was given the boot.

Also MinMor719, I would like the paperwork you have. It would be nice to have the information they give with the gliders. Another thing that would be good, would be a written statement from you. The fact that one glider was soo much smaller and you yourself think she was too young is a good thing to have record of.

Ok...well I thought it was worth a try. Too bad because I think it will take a act of G-d to keep these people from selling and beleive me they are selling.

I probably would have bought anyway even if someone gave me the straight story although I certainly would have gotten them from a rescue. Yes. they are not the easiest pet but they are mine and I love them.

Of course I am an internet junkie so even though I went to thier site I also went other places to this forum and another one and read til my eyes crossed. Beleive me I am no glider expert but I think the girls are doing great and I feel comfortable that they have what they need and more. And they seem healthy- are growing,have soft fluffy fur, eat what I give them and are bonding well with both of us.

In essence I guess I am lucky ours are great....so far.

yes minmor you are very very lucky! They told me all I needed was one glider and on top of the Giardia she started self mutliating her poor little tail... fortunatly her new little friend that I rescued(not being too close because she is still sick) chattering with her from afar seems to have helped that! But by the time all is said and done I have spent almost 200 in vet bills and I still have to bring her back and have been told it will cost another 200 or so and could result in yet another vet visit. All for a pet they told me would never need to be seen by a vet. She still has diarrhea and although getting bigger and better is still very underweight for her age (when taken to the vet the first time she was only 28.5 grams now shes 35.5). Shes the sweetest most friendly fuzz ball I have ever seen if a friend is visiting and I have her out she will face hug them and stuff but I still have this guilt over listening to them. I also wonder how many people were like me and listened when they said don't listen to "so-called" internet experts. It took Lisa from Suncoast Sugar Gliders and my vet for me to see the light. I already rescued one, I am working on getting my money back and anytime I hear of one in need I will gladly take them in. I am fortunate these little guys are great for me I suffer from MS and spend all day at home in pain. They take my mind off of it! So if anyone bought from Pocket Pets in the Florida area and just doesn't want them... send them my way I promise a good home and it will help ease my guilt!

This is soooooo sad to me. Most of the responsible breeders I've talked to, won't let their joeys leave until they are 8 weeks (or older) oop and over 40 grams. If at 8 weeks they are still underweight, they will keep them a bit longer to make sure they are eating alright and such.