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how to test for UTI? #575736
06/23/08 09:52 PM
06/23/08 09:52 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,871
kentucky
ssdreamsicles Offline OP
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ssdreamsicles  Offline OP
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Joined: May 2007
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kentucky
I went this evening to give some yoggies to my guys and heard ares making a hissing noise. He was pooping as far as i could tell but i think i also startled him. I will keep an eye on him but was wondering what a vet does to test for UTI? I will be taking him and carmella with me to MI due to carmella's joeys soon to be out of pouch and i think i might take him to be tested just to make sure i just startled him. I dont want to get up there and have him come down sick.

Re: how to test for UTI? [Re: ssdreamsicles] #575749
06/23/08 10:03 PM
06/23/08 10:03 PM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,321
Maryland
Holly1221 Offline
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Holly1221  Offline
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[font:comic sans ms]Melissa, i wish i knew how to answer this for you ! maybe if you can, get a sample of his pee or poop. i believe they test the pee but i can't say for sure. dunno sorry i couldn't be able to help more !![/font]


Holly & Jeff heart
Misos Phoenix Keegan Knuckles // Asa Etienne Kyrian // Cheyenne Peyton Godiva

RIP my sweet gangel babies, mommy loves you!
Re: how to test for UTI? [Re: ssdreamsicles] #575750
06/23/08 10:04 PM
06/23/08 10:04 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 21,060
Kansas
L
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
LSardou  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
L

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 21,060
Kansas
UTI Information
UTI's can be a difficult problem to deal with. It seems unfair that some are plagued with this problem and get more than their share. There are many suggestions posted about this topic, and some of the advice is inconsistent with sound principles of microbial management or any logic or fact of physiology. I offer another point of view for your consideration. And despite what I post, I would still suggest letting your veterinarian guide your glider care.

1. The water that one uses has nothing to do with causing UTIís. Bottled, tap, filtered or not. Water is absorbed from the gut (a non-sterile area which has many more bacteria than the water) into the blood stream which is a sterile area. The sterile water-containing blood is filtered by the kidney which is still a sterile spot. The kidney filters out protein, blood products and desirable products, and lets the urine (still sterile) pass down the ureters to the bladder to be eliminated. Because gliders have cloacae, they bring gut contents of the intestine (loaded with bacteria) in close proximity together with urinary tract contents (urine still sterile until then) which can allow bacteria to enter. What one drinks is not the cause.

2. Many different kinds of bacteria exist normally in the intestine Ė as the intestineís normal flora. Some of them grow better in acidic environments. Some grow better in alkaline environments. Using vinegar (a weak acid) or other methods to change the urine pH can help with infections causes by some bacteria that are sensitive to pH, but may not help with others. It depends on which germ is growing there.

3. Many antibiotics are eliminated from the body in the urine. Because of this, relatively high levels of antibiotics can be achieved in the urine. That works in our favor when treating infections of the urinary tract.

4. Urinary tract infections will occur from time to time no matter what one does. There is no foolproof way to use the right cage material and water and diet and everything else and change that.

5. Urine in the urinary tract is more like a river than a pond. Its contents are constantly being washed away as drinking fluids brings new urine that is filtered in the kidney and runs down stream toward elimination. So, it is relatively easy to sterilize urine if an appropriate antibiotic is used. If the germ isnít pickled by the med in a couple of days, it wonít work better in a week or a month or a year. For UTI, no improvement in a week ought to make one consider changing meds, but not treating longer.

6. UTIís are a different situation than soft tissue infections and sinus infections which are closed cavities in within bone, and where good antibiotic levels can be more difficult to achieve (see # 3 above). Those areas also do not offer the same drainage to de-bulk the infection as the urinary tract does ( # 5 above). Length of treatment recommendations therefore are be very different.

7. A principle of antibiotic therapy is to use the most specific (narrow spectrum) drug possible. An advantage of culture is to know what germ one is dealing with and therefore select an antibiotic with activity against that germ and bother others as little as possible. Disrupting flora in a bigger way with broad spectrum meds affects nutrition, antibiotic resistance, and other processes in a negative way.

8. Broad spectrum meds does not necessarily mean a good thing. If an infection is life-threatening and one does not know what germ is present, they are a good choice. But if a culture has identified a germ and better directed care, the more narrow spectrum drug that works the better.

9. Using longer treatment, broad spectrum drugs, or multiple drugs are the recipe for developing drug resistance. We all get faced with situations where nothing is working and we get pushed into trying such things. But starting with that strategy in every infection comes with negatives not to be overlooked.

10. Iíve never had much faith in the thought that galvanized wire cages cause UTIís. Iíve never seen proof of that assertion.

11. Every hissing glider may not have a UTI. To my way of thinking, there can be irritations of the lining of the cloacae that would be burned by urine. Voiding even sterile, non-infected urine could sting in that situation. Although a UTI may be the reason for that membrane to become irritated, it does not necessarily have to be that the bladder or urinary tract structures above the bladder are infected. And since urine cultures from a glider are growing germs from two mixed tracts, a theoretically sterile urinary tract and a known dirty and infected intestinal tract, it is difficult to interpret those results.

12. The tough part of glider urinary work-up is that we are not collecting urine in a sterile manner. That which we collect has come through the cloacae. Since the cloaca is a shared passage of both urinary tract and gastro-intestinal tract, the bacteria-laden poop and the sterile urine are mixed before exit. Although it is true that urine should be sterile, glider urine is difficult to get before mixing with poop bacteria. One should see a single germ growing in very high colony count (greater than 100,000 colony forming units per high power field) to conclude that that germ is a pathogen. If multiple germs grow, it is usually a flora sample and totally normal.

13. Lastly, some are just prone to getting infections. It might be that there is a subtle difference in anatomy that allows germ entry. Some have minor differences in their DNA that affects immune system function and natural protections. Some have dietary shortcomings that may play a role. If repeated and resistant UTIís are present, using a daily antibiotic forever as a prophylactic to help maintain a sterile urinary tract. That med should ideally be narrow spectrum, low-dose, and one that will be eliminated (concentrated) in the urine.


If the infection recurs, and if it's the same bacteria-what you now have (likely from not being on the meds long enough the first time) is a RESISTANT STRAIN . That means that even though a particular med SHOULD kill it-it may not. If you've used the same antibiotic every time, it's time not only for a different one, I would recommend a combination of TWO antibiotics for a duration (length of time) NO LESS than 21-30 days-personally, I'd go (and have-I had one in the same situation it took a 3 month course of Clindamycin, Flagyl, and Baytril to finally cure-he had a recurrent facial/sinus infection) AT LEAST 30-45 days. Resistant bacteria are nasty, and very hard to get rid of.

In rare cases or if the infection is very mild, that might work, but in most, with gliders, you end up with a resistant bug. Glider metabolism processes differently from domestic animals. After the first two resistant bugs we managed to spawn doing that, I always recommend, for ANY course (and follow my own advice) NO LESS than 14 days even for a first occurrence-because you only have to miss a few, and you have a drug resistant infection that is more difficult every time to try and get rid of.

UTI: Urinary Tract Infection. First sign is hissing when peeing (because it hurts/burns to go potty). Other indications are excess licking of the cloaca area, or Self Mutilation. This may be accompanied by crystals in the urine. The vet will need to check for crystals if UTI is suspected, along with checking the PH levels of the urine.

Re: how to test for UTI? [Re: LSardou] #575766
06/23/08 10:21 PM
06/23/08 10:21 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,871
kentucky
ssdreamsicles Offline OP
Glider Slave
ssdreamsicles  Offline OP
Glider Slave

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,871
kentucky
LSardou thank you so much for all that info. I think I just startled him as i have seen no other signs of this. I will say that he is a male that loves to mark his cage can this make him more prone to UTI? When they mark they will rub on the cage and there could be bacteria where he is rubbing. I have never so far had one get a UTI. Im going to keep an eye on him.

I think you have read my post about my vet wanting to learn to treat gliders and i trust my vet and would like for her to test him so that is why i was asking how to test. May i copy and past this info to put with the other info i am giving her to learn? She also has a glider vet she consalts with. Im only more worried because i will be travling to MI and dont havea vet there. If he does not do anymore hissing in the next few days should i worry or go ahead and take him to her to test. Do they just put the pee on a slide and check it like they would a fecal?

Re: how to test for UTI? [Re: LSardou] #575770
06/23/08 10:33 PM
06/23/08 10:33 PM
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,968
Northeast Indiana
minkasmom Offline
Serious Glideritis
minkasmom  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 5,968
Northeast Indiana
Sometimes it's as simple as a fresh pee sample and a Discreen 8 litmus test strip run through it.

On that test strip, you can get a reading on pH levels (a higher level is a BIG RED FLAG of trouble), protein, white cells, presence of blood in urine, ketones, glucose, and a couple other things that slip my mind right now (it's late here & the old think-maker is slipping a bit). That's what my vet uses when I suspect there's a UTI issue.

The best part is that a glider placed on an exam table is more than WILLING to furnish a sample for you wink Can't say that I blame 'em...those tables can be COLD!


Minkasmom (Papillon Kisses)
Slave to:
28 gliders,4 cats,
and ONE husband (can't handle two, lol!)
gangel Remembering all my lost loves cry
Re: how to test for UTI? [Re: minkasmom] #575773
06/23/08 10:45 PM
06/23/08 10:45 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,871
kentucky
ssdreamsicles Offline OP
Glider Slave
ssdreamsicles  Offline OP
Glider Slave

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,871
kentucky
Mine have never been unwilling to give a fresh sample more so if they are on me lol! He is a big marker so i dont think that will be a prob. He is acting fine so i think i just scared him but if he mutters so much as one more his while he pottys its off to the vet. If it is simple test i will prob get it done anyways just to be on the safe side.

Re: how to test for UTI? [Re: ssdreamsicles] #575777
06/23/08 10:55 PM
06/23/08 10:55 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,264
Northeast U.S.
angelic4296 Offline
Glider Addict
angelic4296  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,264
Northeast U.S.
off_topic OK, I'm chiming in with a question...I have clean containters in my e-kit labeled:

-Ruthie Urine
-Ruthie Stool
-Gizmo Urine
-Gizmo Stool

If I ever have a problem and get a sample in those containers before I go to the vet (mine tend to pee on me or the table, which does not does help), should I put them in a mini cooler with ice packs to keep them fresh or keep them at room temperature? Which will be best?


Jess

2 spoiled gliders, Gizzy (6/05) and Ruthie (?/05) <3

Please consider rescuing first!

Please remember to complete your surveys at http://www.sugargroup.org/ - help better the lives of gliders everywhere smile
Re: how to test for UTI? [Re: angelic4296] #575779
06/23/08 10:59 PM
06/23/08 10:59 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,871
kentucky
ssdreamsicles Offline OP
Glider Slave
ssdreamsicles  Offline OP
Glider Slave

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,871
kentucky
that sounds like a great idea if it will be ok to do. I work at a vet so i can get viles to have on hand to get a sample then take to the vet would this work?

Re: how to test for UTI? [Re: ssdreamsicles] #575784
06/23/08 11:05 PM
06/23/08 11:05 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 21,060
Kansas
L
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
LSardou  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
L

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 21,060
Kansas
Originally Posted By: ssdreamsicles
LSardou thank you so much for all that info. I think I just startled him as i have seen no other signs of this. I will say that he is a male that loves to mark his cage can this make him more prone to UTI? When they mark they will rub on the cage and there could be bacteria where he is rubbing. I have never so far had one get a UTI. Im going to keep an eye on him.

I think you have read my post about my vet wanting to learn to treat gliders and i trust my vet and would like for her to test him so that is why i was asking how to test. May i copy and past this info to put with the other info i am giving her to learn?

Yes, feel free to pass this information on. I think that what your doing is wonderful!

She also has a glider vet she consalts with. Im only more worried because i will be travling to MI and dont havea vet there. If he does not do anymore hissing in the next few days should i worry or go ahead and take him to her to test.
My feeling is that if this is something that he has just started, I would take him in to be checked regardless. It's always better to spend the little extra for a test now, than have something seriously go wrong. Do they just put the pee on a slide and check it like they would a fecal?
They will draw up a small amount of urine, and put drops on a 'diastix', this is a strip that will read out all the properties ie...ph, blood, protein. They also upon request sometimes, will spin the urine for crystals. I would also have them check his anal glands to make sure that there is no possible swelling.
Sending lots of prayers that everything is ok!

Re: how to test for UTI? [Re: angelic4296] #575788
06/23/08 11:07 PM
06/23/08 11:07 PM
Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 21,060
Kansas
L
LSardou Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
LSardou  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
L

Joined: Mar 2006
Posts: 21,060
Kansas
Originally Posted By: angelic4296
off_topic OK, I'm chiming in with a question...I have clean containters in my e-kit labeled:

-Ruthie Urine
-Ruthie Stool
-Gizmo Urine
-Gizmo Stool

If I ever have a problem and get a sample in those containers before I go to the vet (mine tend to pee on me or the table, which does not does help), should I put them in a mini cooler with ice packs to keep them fresh or keep them at room temperature? Which will be best?

The fresher the sample the better. However, if you happen to get one earlier than your scheduled appointment, it can be refrigerated (should be)...both urine and stool.

Re: how to test for UTI? [Re: LSardou] #575790
06/23/08 11:08 PM
06/23/08 11:08 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,264
Northeast U.S.
angelic4296 Offline
Glider Addict
angelic4296  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 3,264
Northeast U.S.
So refrigerator or cooler with ice packs it is...thanks Linda!


Jess

2 spoiled gliders, Gizzy (6/05) and Ruthie (?/05) <3

Please consider rescuing first!

Please remember to complete your surveys at http://www.sugargroup.org/ - help better the lives of gliders everywhere smile
Re: how to test for UTI? [Re: LSardou] #575792
06/23/08 11:12 PM
06/23/08 11:12 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,871
kentucky
ssdreamsicles Offline OP
Glider Slave
ssdreamsicles  Offline OP
Glider Slave

Joined: May 2007
Posts: 1,871
kentucky
Thanks so much! any info i can get her is such a great help. I really like her as a person and a vet.


Re: how to test for UTI? [Re: ssdreamsicles] #575870
06/24/08 06:58 AM
06/24/08 06:58 AM
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,015
MA
pappy1264 Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
pappy1264  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 11,015
MA
Since I am dealing with a UTI in Roo, this was good to read. Problem with her, both times, she peed on me as soon as I was taking her out of her pouch and they were not able to get a sample either time she was there (she is still on meds, this is week three). She had bright red blood come out of her cloaca when the doc was examining her. I have not heard any more hissing, so for now I will finish up the meds and wait and see. If she hisses again, my vet is going to do an xray to rule out stones and hopefully we can get a sample (since she will need to be sedated for the xray, she may be able to get a sample via needle directly from her bladder if need be.) Having a glider with a resistent UTI is not fun. Definitely get your boy checked. Petey went down hill very fast with his (he had a UTI, infected anal glands and then his cloaca swelled closed and he could not potty at all.....all within 24 hours!)


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