yeah, if only she could grab food to eat herself, I'd be set and could relax a bit. Different fruits, mealworms, and such. Vegetables would be nice but they tend to shy away from the things. I thought I almost got close with a mealworm earlier - she quickly grabbed in that direction but hit my finger instead. Couldn't get her to grab near it again. Probably just needed balance

oh yeah...should there be a point when I try feeding her bml through the dropper? My guess is that its fine at any point. She usually loves the stuff off and on so its iffy whether she'll eat it

tiny stools another couple times today

If you can get her to eat BML with a dropper (or any way) then go ahead. It sure won't hurt her. Good luck <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" />

I think she'll eat just about anything in the mornings now

ellen you are 100 percent right on this glider needing calcium. When these guys are sick they use alot of calcium and i have to say to seek you need to get calcium in her or him ASAP. no matter what the vet says in this case. ask for liquid calcium and the proper dose for her weight and use it before this turns into HLP due to the bacteria or whatver is causeing her problem BML alone wont due. I have yrs experience with gliders this is what u need dont wait it might cost the life of your glider. Ive been thru this so i no what im talking about.

yeah, I've been trying but they won't seem to give me anything. I'm about ready to go to another vet to ask for just this (or maybe I can convince another doctor). Its my glider and my money, so they should give me what I request if I want it badly enough

I'd use the vet link here at GC but its a dead end (not working). Unless someone knows of an over-the-counter substitute, I'm going to have to keep trying like I've been. I'm going back for the blood results in a few and will try to see another doctor

edit:
and I understand how important calcium is for gliders...its been probably the #1 health topic for years

You have to remember YOU pay the vet. He doesnt pay you. Print out this post and take it with you. Also there are other vets's that he can consult with. Check the links and Judi's post. Go to the links for glider vets and look under VA for Great Neck Animal Hosptial. They should be able to help you if you ask for Dr. Thomas.

I have found you must be asservise with vets. They have small animal handboodks with dosages and can use them.

Don't know why the vet link isnt working I will check on that. Go to the states vet links and see if that helps.

OVer the counter I am not sure of. It really needs to be dosesd by the gliders weight.

Just keep yelling that's what they need.

Keep us posted.

What state are you in? The link is working but if you can't view it, i will pm you all the vets in your state!!

If this were my glider.... I would continue to the meds(antibiotic and the metrodiazoline (flagyl) and sub q injections for fluids till this glider is able to eat on her own. Also, with a syringe... force feed her the BML at the min a tablespoon. Feed a teaspoonful at a time which is 3.0 ml or three 1.0 ml for three feedings throughout the day (One teaspoonfull with a syringe... every 8 hours.). These feedings will hold her to her current weight.

Ask for an oral calcium supplement from your vet. Here in Missouri one cannot get it at a drug store... only from a vet. I do not know what your state laws are where you are located. Thus... go straight to the source... a vet. If your vet will not give it... then suggest another vet who will. Downside to this is... may require a new vet visit for your glider.

The HLP like symptoms will eventually disapper once the infection lessens. Till that time... continue to give the oral calcium, the antibiotics, sub q fluids and if need be.... "force" feed the BML mix with a syringe.

I just got back...rest of the blood results STILL aren't in. Talked to a different doctor and he perscribed 0.02mL Calcium Glubionate once a day

and about the vet link...its the one on the bottom of the page thats not working. I usually go there on sites to find what I need instead of search through all the eye candy. The other link on the front page works fine

edit:
of course, out of the 4 different oral things obtained from the vet, this is the one she doesn't like

She is a beautiful little girl! I pray she gets over whatever this is..and FAST! You sure are taking great care of her <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif" alt="" /> HUGS for both of you.

if u have to force feed her put the syringe in sideways so she dont choke to death. and squeeze a little at a time. you put the syringe sideways in her mouth same with liquid meds.

her eyes are around halfway open now. She's starting to stand on all 4 and can reach her face with her front paws (batting away food buildup from the dropper). She doesn't seem to be choking on anything anymore, can "sneeze" now to clear up anything. Her strength is so much that I put say my thumb near her and she'll reach for it and cling on with all 4 legs, not letting go - she can hang by herself this way if I lift up. Has yet to do a mealworm but she's never had one in her entire life anyways

I did it that way when she first wouldn't eat/lick by herself. Now I just squeeze some out on her front upper teeth and she licks it off. Chicken baby food likes to build up since the juices go down easily, but the rest stays put. She took her calcium through the side of the mouth

The labs really look pretty good. A low bilirubin is not a problem, it shows her liver is working well. Elevated is a problem.

Her protein probably looks a little on the upper end of normal due to being a bit dry. If one takes out a little fluid, all of the solids dissolved in it go up a tad bit. Not a problem.

The Alkaline phosphatase level is also uninteresting. The CPK is the most outside of usual, but that is not specific or worrisome.

The one thing that stands out is that the sodium is high and the potassium is a little low. That probably is consistent with a little dehydration, and a bad kind of dehydration given that electrolyte picture (Hypernatremic dehydration.) Push fluids, and pedialyte or similar re hydration formula would be good orally, or sub-Q's if not. Don't ever dilute Pedialyte - just give it straight.

Although nutrition is always important, there is pretty good evidence in the human literature that fasting patients who are very sick do better than those given IV nutrition in the short run. Over lengthy illnesses, obviously nutrition needs to be watched. When anyone is sick, they don't eat great for a couple of days. But keep up with fluids. Glucose containing fluids are better, but don't add extra sugar to Pedialyte or you create a hyperosmolar fluid and can make hydration status worse.

If one is using ensure as the main diet, adding calcium to get to BML levels doesn't really makes sense. Ensure is a complete calcium source. Since the BML is only part of the diet, as Charlie pointed out, the calcium in BML is bumped up to cover the complete daily calcium need, assuming the other foods are calcium poor. A diet totally of liquid Ensure is different as it has good levels and it is not covering other foods calcium inadequacy. Calcium glubionate or Neocalglucon - like meds are good if not taking the Ensure.

Those three antibiotics are interesting. More is not always better, and adding TMP/SMX to Baytril isn't picking up a much larger spectrum. That seems to add risk without much reward. But your veterinarian has seen and examined her.

I hope some of this helps.

blood results post updated. Overall, the bloodwork doesn't explain what happened to her

We're moving to 48 hour re-exams from now on since she has improved a lot in the last 24 hours. Both eyes are open enough to allow her to look around. She still seems to insist on climbing into my hand more than being in her fleece (she'd almost never sleep in my hands prior to all this). She isn't as shaky as before and can grab onto things quite hard. Defecated probably 10 times yesterday and urinated 3 times (once more than she has been on any particular day). Weight hasn't really done much in the last day - its staying around the 41g mark.

Will update in a bit

She is a beautiful little baby! I am so glad she is fighting this whatever it is and that the vet finally prescribed the much needed calcium! Good luck and please keep us posted!

Blood work frequently Leaves one without the answers. There are many conclusions that can be made about what is working well from those many normal results. I would have to view normal labs as really good news. Hard not to have answers, but good that things are working well.

starting to look more normal but still won't eat by herself. Still laying there all day for the most part but she's awake more often. Just doesn't seem to have the strength to eat on her own. I put her in a little clear box with a few crickets. She looked like she was going to go for them but kept missing and eventually just fell to her side and gave up

won't eat boiled egg white on her own either, which was a favorite

I hope she continues to improve, even if with only baby steps. sounds like she is very much a fighter <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/heartpump.gif" alt="" />.

Karin

Here's a question for anyone who knows. Where can I get a gram scale? From which stores or type of stores?

We got our gram scale at a Kitchen store. I have 2 different ones. One is a digital and the other is a gram scale that is read by numbers. Like the old scales we weighed on. I like the later of the two. I think it's more accurate.

I am going to move this to Health and Hygiene. I think you can get more answers there.

I got mine in the kitchen section in wal-mart.

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I am going to move this to Health and Hygiene. I think you can get more answers there.

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wasn't it here in the first place? <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/nixweiss.gif" alt="" />

Office Depot has a digital letter scale for around $30 that will give either ounces or grams. It has a range of up to 5#.

You really have a mystery case on your hands. The calcium defiency theory sounds logical even if the tests do not verify it. Maybe an xray for bone density would be more benefical. A word of caution about giving the liquid calcium. You really don't want to give much more than the daily requirements. No one knows exactly what amount that is. What I have learned is that contrary to what we have been told in the past a glider does not pass all of the excessive calcium through the digestive and urinary tracts. If you give a glider too much calcium over a period of time it will start to build up in the liver and cause damage. Probably will also cause problems with the kidneys. Just keep in mind that too much can do as much damage as too little only in a different way.
Charlie H

yeah, I understand that, although supposedly it'd take a while longer than a couple weeks (about as much as they gave me) to cause dangerous buildup. The doctor also perscribed a lower end of doseage (0.02mL a day) since she's been getting some in her diet.

Still really no change with her behavior over the last couple days. She managed to grab a cricket but just held on and sat there. She's going in for her 48 hour recheck and we will get another weight to see whats going on with her body.

and I found digital scales in many places, but none of the sliding weight kind (as mentioned in the thread and what they use at the vet)

back...she has lost even more weight. 36.7g

*sigh*

Ugh! I'm sorry!

You don't have to have the sliding weight kind. A digital scale is quite accurate. I use a digital scale, and the weights I got are very much the same as what the vet had with his sliding scale.

If she is losing weight...here I am going to give you what I MYSELF would do..I would begin forcing food/liquids with a 1cc syringe orally. Either BML or Ensure, .5cc at a feeding, every 2-3 hours. Offer whatever liquids she likes best...whether that be juice, nectar, gliderade, water, whatever, at 30 min. intervals throughout the day/night to keep her hydrated, in addition to the calcium. If no cause at all for this can be found, I'd also shotgun with a broad spectrum antibiotic (Baytril or Clavamox) for at least 10 days, to cover an infection that may not show up on standard testing. There are infections that show up on no less than an Xray, and sometimes not even then, depending on where they are. There are a number of infections, secondary symptoms being calcium deficiency.

Also, keep her close to you as much as possible, and keep her warm.

Provide updates on your baby...we're all worried! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worried2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />

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If she is losing weight...here I am going to give you what I MYSELF would do..I would begin forcing food/liquids with a 1cc syringe orally. Either BML or Ensure, .5cc at a feeding, every 2-3 hours. Offer whatever liquids she likes best...whether that be juice, nectar, gliderade, water, whatever, at 30 min. intervals throughout the day/night to keep her hydrated, in addition to the calcium. If no cause at all for this can be found, I'd also shotgun with a broad spectrum antibiotic (Baytril or Clavamox) for at least 10 days, to cover an infection that may not show up on standard testing. There are infections that show up on no less than an Xray, and sometimes not even then, depending on where they are. There are a number of infections, secondary symptoms being calcium deficiency.

Also, keep her close to you as much as possible, and keep her warm.

Provide updates on your baby...we're all worried! <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/worried2.gif" alt="" /> <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/hug2.gif" alt="" />

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many of this has been stated already in this thread. She started on Baytril, but had another 2 meds and calcium added after the first few days of this going on. She's been getting force fed for the last week, along with sub-q injections. She's sticking in there but slowly losing more and more weight. Basically I can only keep doing what I'm doing and hope for the best...

...or hope someone can give me a miracle cure/solution <img src="/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif" alt="" />