Sugar Glider Community Calendar

Please click here to see larger view
Articles
More coming soon!!
Today's Birthdays
1daddyglider1, Brinnygirl, princessmegi
Member Spotlight
None yet
Show All Member Profiles 
Last 10 Posts
Just cant win with gliders lol.
by mechnut450. 09/20/21 05:03 PM
New glider parent here
by AgamanNibo. 09/19/21 09:31 PM
Coat Health& Constipation
by cookielover. 09/18/21 11:28 PM
Ant Invasion
by Ladymagyver. 09/07/21 10:36 AM
Nail trimming UGH!
by Feather. 08/27/21 07:44 PM
2022 Sugar Glider Calendar and Cafe Press Store
by theresaw. 08/24/21 11:23 AM
Google+

Facebook
Join Us On Facebook
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Breeding LeuXLeu #667908
11/04/08 10:07 PM
11/04/08 10:07 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 324
NY
G
GliderFun Offline OP
Glider Lover
GliderFun  Offline OP
Glider Lover
G

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 324
NY
If you have 2 Leus (male and female) and you breed them isn't that fine as long as their lines are spread apart far enough?

I understand that there are only 2 lines in the US (that's what I hear) but genetic wise you can breed animals as long as they are far enough apart isn't that right?

Wouldn't that be OK if they were 10th cousins+ or not even related at all? Even 5th cousins (i hear with humans) are ok

Re: Breeding LeuXLeu [Re: GliderFun] #667934
11/04/08 10:36 PM
11/04/08 10:36 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,970
Spring, Texas
Trigger Offline
Glider Addict
Trigger  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,970
Spring, Texas
Well it's highly frowned upon in the glider community.
It is my understanding that the lines are not yet spread enough to support leu to leu breedings.

What are the lineages on your leus?


-(`v)-MO MONEY!-(`v)-
kids Chance, Dylan, John, & Kayla
Skittles, Snupi, Snuki, Lucy, Shanu, Caspian, Ivy, Kalysta, Kaliya, Santee, Cheyenne, Apache, Comanche, Twirpy, Meribelle, Santeria, Shyamalan, Sebastian, Zoey, Naira & Katsu
www.jensfuzzyfriends.com
Re: Breeding LeuXLeu [Re: Trigger] #667947
11/04/08 10:48 PM
11/04/08 10:48 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 324
NY
G
GliderFun Offline OP
Glider Lover
GliderFun  Offline OP
Glider Lover
G

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 324
NY
I don't have the female leu's that I was thinking about purchasing. I emailed the person asking about the lineage.

In a human being it's ok to marry and have kids with your 5th cousin but 1-4 can cause genetic issues. It should be similar in the case of other animals right?

When they answer me with the lineage then I will post it but Idk when they will get back to me.

Re: Breeding LeuXLeu [Re: Trigger] #667964
11/04/08 11:18 PM
11/04/08 11:18 PM

H
hollysmom
Unregistered
hollysmom
Unregistered
H



The leucistic gene is a weak gene. Alot of people agrue that breeding a leu to a leu het is no different, but there acutally is a difference in having the gene being prominant(leucistic coloring) and carrying that gene (Leucistic Heterogeny). There have been chromosome analyses done on other species who carried the leu gene and when they are bred leu x leu, there is a 6 out of 10 chance of deafness. I have been comunicating with genetics professor and its been very educational. Hopefull in the near future I will have enough knowledge to share with others but for now this is as far as I can understand. LOL

Re: Breeding LeuXLeu [Re: ] #667972
11/04/08 11:28 PM
11/04/08 11:28 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,664
Hudson Valley, NY
krysKritters Offline
Glider Addict
krysKritters  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,664
Hudson Valley, NY
I always try to explain it this way.... There are 3 leu lines that ALL leus can be traced to. Let's call them Line "A", line "B", & line "C"
If you breed line "A" to line "B" the joeys would be "AB" (are you with me so far???)
Then you could only breed those joeys (from line "AB") to line "C"... making those joeys line "ABC"....
Who would you breed those to?
When you breed leu to leu you are closing the gene pool, making it smaller... what you want to do it is breed to a create a new line... line "D" for example... this will help to WIDEN the gene pool and in the long run strengthen the leu lines...
You really have to think long term....


Krys DeRosa
Godfather of the NY Glider Mafia

KrysKritters.comcloud9

A child with Autism is not ignoring you, they are waiting for you to enter their world.
Re: Breeding LeuXLeu [Re: krysKritters] #667994
11/05/08 12:08 AM
11/05/08 12:08 AM

S
ShyRascal
Unregistered
ShyRascal
Unregistered
S



So breeding a lue to say a 66%? lue het would that be widening or narrowing? or should you breed the leu with another coloring completely?

Re: Breeding LeuXLeu [Re: ] #668213
11/05/08 12:33 PM
11/05/08 12:33 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,664
Hudson Valley, NY
krysKritters Offline
Glider Addict
krysKritters  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,664
Hudson Valley, NY
Yes, breeding a leu to a 66% het would be helping to "widen" the gene pool but a another color would be better, "widening" the line even more.
This is why so many breeders are working very hard to breed out the leu line with hets and other colors.

I hope I am explaining good. I know there are many others here that know much more about genetics than I do... anyone else wanna jump in here?


Krys DeRosa
Godfather of the NY Glider Mafia

KrysKritters.comcloud9

A child with Autism is not ignoring you, they are waiting for you to enter their world.
Re: Breeding LeuXLeu [Re: krysKritters] #668259
11/05/08 01:33 PM
11/05/08 01:33 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
However, if you expect to get leu joeys, each parent has to carry the gene. Meaning both must be atleast hets. (or one het and one leu). Breeding a leu with another color will not produce white babies.


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: Breeding LeuXLeu [Re: Dancing] #668333
11/05/08 03:46 PM
11/05/08 03:46 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,305
Florida, USA
oakley Offline
Glider Slave
oakley  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,305
Florida, USA
If you are interested in leu joeys, you can breed two 100% leu hets or breed a leu with a 100% leu het.

If you are interested in breeding out the leu line, you can simply pair a leu with a standard grey and ALL of the joeys will be 100% het for leu but look like standard greys.


Meghan

~__/>
{{ }}


Suggies: Basil, Mausi, Bagheera/Baloo, & the Trio
Dogs : Pretzel/Snickers
Horse: Nugget
RIP: Gato, Pepito, Pepper, and Mowgli gangel


Oakley's Glider Site
Re: Breeding LeuXLeu [Re: Dancing] #668337
11/05/08 03:49 PM
11/05/08 03:49 PM

L
Leyna
Unregistered
Leyna
Unregistered
L



Quote:
Yes, breeding a leu to a 66% het would be helping to "widen" the gene pool but a another color would be better, "widening" the line even more.


I'm sorry, but I must correct you on that statement. There is NO genetic difference between a leu born to 2 100% hets and a 66% leu het glider, with the exception of color. Proving out a 66% is not outbreeding or widening the gene pool. Personally, I don't think 66% hets should even be bred.

Re: Breeding LeuXLeu [Re: ] #668356
11/05/08 04:03 PM
11/05/08 04:03 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,305
Florida, USA
oakley Offline
Glider Slave
oakley  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,305
Florida, USA
I agree. Please let me help you clarify.

There is NO SUCH THING as a 66% or 33% or any other percent het for leu glider in their actual genotypes.

The only reason people use the percentages is to inform buyers of the CHANCE a glider may have of being heterozygous for the leu gene.


Leyna, you also mentioned "proving out" a glider. This term simply refers to breeding a glider with a chance of being het for leu with a glider that is a leu or a 100% het for leu and waiting for leucistic joeys to show up. If the pair produces a leu joey, than the glider is "proven" 100% het.

HTH thumb


Meghan

~__/>
{{ }}


Suggies: Basil, Mausi, Bagheera/Baloo, & the Trio
Dogs : Pretzel/Snickers
Horse: Nugget
RIP: Gato, Pepito, Pepper, and Mowgli gangel


Oakley's Glider Site
Re: Breeding LeuXLeu [Re: oakley] #668433
11/05/08 05:27 PM
11/05/08 05:27 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 9,173
Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis
Judie  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 9,173
Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Hmmmm. The correct discription of a lesser Het should be written as Possible plus percentage Het.

By saying Possible plus the percentage gives the possibility or chance of being a 100% Het according to the Pundent Square. The greater the Possibility the higher the chances of being able to Prove out a Possible Het.

This is why one pays more for a Possible 66% Het over a Possible 25% Het. The Possible 66% Hets chances of being a carrier for color will prove out to be a 100% Het more often than a Possible 25% Het.

Thus.... to a breeder it is "very important" to know the Correct Possible Percentage of Possible Hets as this usually dictates the time it will take to Prove out a Possible Het and also as to what one would expect to pay for a Possible Het when purchasing.

A Possible Het is not Proven till it produces the Color it is Heterzygous for. Only then is the Possible Het discribed as a Proven 100% Het.

Re: Breeding LeuXLeu [Re: Judie] #668453
11/05/08 05:53 PM
11/05/08 05:53 PM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,664
Hudson Valley, NY
krysKritters Offline
Glider Addict
krysKritters  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,664
Hudson Valley, NY
Thanks everyone... I knew you all where out there and knew more about the actualy genetics than I. grin
My main point was no matter if you breed for genetics or color, the goal should be the same... to strengthen and widen the lines. grin


Krys DeRosa
Godfather of the NY Glider Mafia

KrysKritters.comcloud9

A child with Autism is not ignoring you, they are waiting for you to enter their world.
Re: Breeding LeuXLeu [Re: ] #668461
11/05/08 05:59 PM
11/05/08 05:59 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,089
Central Connecticut
BCChins Offline
Glider Addict
BCChins  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,089
Central Connecticut
Originally Posted By: Leyna
[quote] Personally, I don't think 66% hets should even be bred.

Leyna can you please state why you do not think that 66% hets should be bred?


Have a Good Day
Brenda &
Mr. Magoo

Friendly Reminder please have an e-collar ready before you need it......
Re: Breeding LeuXLeu [Re: BCChins] #668472
11/05/08 06:19 PM
11/05/08 06:19 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 9,173
Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis
Judie  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 9,173
Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
The Possible 66% Het is the result of two 100% Hets. For someone who has closely related lines then one should look for perhaps a Possible 50% Het or a Normal color if breeding to a Leu or to another 100% Het as it will offer more diversity to the closely bred lineage.

However, I feel 100% Hets are very important in a breeding program. Breeding a 100% Het to a Lesser Het will at least help determine who is a carrier of the desired gene one is trying to breed for two years or so down the road if not sooner.

If one were to rule out all 100% Hets... one will, over time, loose the gene for that color. The genetic gene pool will eventualy shrink to nothing.

Re: Breeding LeuXLeu [Re: Judie] #669048
11/06/08 02:36 PM
11/06/08 02:36 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 324
NY
G
GliderFun Offline OP
Glider Lover
GliderFun  Offline OP
Glider Lover
G

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 324
NY
Would it be acceptable to breed a leu with another leu that is 7-10 generations down the line?
Wouldn't that be the same as breeding a gray with a gray 7-10 generations down the line. I'm thinking long term

Re: Breeding LeuXLeu [Re: GliderFun] #669075
11/06/08 03:07 PM
11/06/08 03:07 PM

H
hollysmom
Unregistered
hollysmom
Unregistered
H



I don't think, from what I have been researching, that there would ever be an acceptable time to breed 2 leus.

Re: Breeding LeuXLeu [Re: GliderFun] #669078
11/06/08 03:11 PM
11/06/08 03:11 PM

L
Leyna
Unregistered
Leyna
Unregistered
L



BCChins, I personally don't feel that breeding 66% hets is beneficial to leucistic lines. With the rare exception of pure line hets, it's impossible to pair 66% hets without inbreeding/line breeding. I also don't think leucistics should be paired with hets. While you can't produce a leu by pairing it with a gray, you can outbreed the lines and produce a glider that still has the leucistic gene. Eventually, the leu lines will be outbred enough that it will no longer matter, but I don't feel that the leu lines have reached that point yet.

Re: Breeding LeuXLeu [Re: ] #669082
11/06/08 03:15 PM
11/06/08 03:15 PM
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,089
Central Connecticut
BCChins Offline
Glider Addict
BCChins  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 3,089
Central Connecticut
Thank You for answering and I understand what you are saying.


Have a Good Day
Brenda &
Mr. Magoo

Friendly Reminder please have an e-collar ready before you need it......
Re: Breeding LeuXLeu [Re: BCChins] #669246
11/06/08 07:16 PM
11/06/08 07:16 PM
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 324
NY
G
GliderFun Offline OP
Glider Lover
GliderFun  Offline OP
Glider Lover
G

Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 324
NY
Are there genetic tests that can be done to determine certain things in Leus?

Re: Breeding LeuXLeu [Re: ] #669275
11/06/08 07:50 PM
11/06/08 07:50 PM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 9,173
Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis
Judie  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 9,173
Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
If one never breeds a Leucistic offspring which is not a BEW (which happens to be a 100% Leu Het)to another 100%.... just how do you expect to carry on the Leucistic Color?

When a Possible Lesser Het proves out... it is a 100% Leu Het.

Re: Breeding LeuXLeu [Re: Judie] #669279
11/06/08 07:56 PM
11/06/08 07:56 PM

L
Leyna
Unregistered
Leyna
Unregistered
L



I don't understand what you are asking Judie.

You carry the leucistic gene on by pairing leucistics with non-leu line gliders. Then you pair up the hets or outbreed them to produce possible hets... I see nothing wrong with pairing unrelated hets.


Moderated by  Feather, KarenE, Ladymagyver 

Sugar Glider Help Page



Please click above to see how you can help!!

Moon
CURRENT MOON
Who's Online Now
2 registered members (mechnut450, cookielover), 60 guests, and 380 spiders.
Key: , , Owner, Admin
Newest Members
Max, Cheyanne, Clickp, panderola, DM15
7273 Registered Users
Forum Statistics
Forums132
Topics10,281
Posts158,702
posts in the last 24hrs0
Members7,274
Most Online2,693
Jan 2nd, 2020
Last 10 New Topics
Just cant win with gliders lol.
by mechnut450. 09/19/21 10:21 PM
Coat Health& Constipation
by cookielover. 09/18/21 11:12 PM
New glider parent here
by AgamanNibo. 09/04/21 01:23 PM
Ant Invasion
by cookielover. 09/01/21 02:21 PM
2022 Sugar Glider Calendar and Cafe Press Store
by theresaw. 08/24/21 11:23 AM
Nail trimming UGH!
by Ladymagyver. 07/05/21 08:31 AM
Popular Topics(Views)
822,479 TEXAS
654,636 OHIO
462,026 OKLAHOMA
410,736 UTAH
303,256 NORTH CAROLINA
Supported Browser
This site was tested and is best viewed in Google Chrome & Mozilla FireFox



Firefox 3

Download your copy today!!!
Home Forums Links Sitemap Vets Breeders Sounds Contact Us Names Rules & Policies

GliderCENTRAL
©1998-2021
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software
(Release build 20180918)
Page Time: 0.041s Queries: 14 (0.015s) Memory: 1.4186 MB (Peak: 1.6898 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2021-09-20 22:22:21 UTC