Erin, Cindy, Robin, you all have done such a great job, I am so proud of you all..

Erin, Look what you have done in 4 Days!!!
Robin in only a day !!!


Look at the accomplishments you have made to this point, be very proud of them, your gliders and you are on your way to have a great relationship BASED on trust. That is a very important foundation.

If they don't get any better than they are right now today, you have already improved their lives a mass amount. you all have worked through their immense fears and have seen their life through their eyes.

Look at those babies tonight, tell them how much you love them and how proud you are of them as well. enjoy them..

I JUST LOVE LOVE LOVE to read these progress reports! Because I've seen how these methods work with Buffy, I'm so happy that other's are working these same methods with their gliders and getting the same awesome results! Good for the gliders and good for the owners as well.

Keep up the good work and the progress reports!

YEAH SHADOW!!! You go lil man!

Donna and I are still working on not chewing on ME while I offer licky treats. We have changed to a tiny lil plastic coffee stir stick from McD's from the giant intimidating wooden spoon handle. But she tries to take the stir stick away from me. I can't offer her licky treats off my finger till she isn't using her teeth at all.

And I am also hoping that she will stop creeping out of the pouch when I reach in to pet her. She thinks she's being sneaky when she does that. It's really cute, looks like she is tip-toeing to the edge, then off down the back of the cage she goes. Once she stops creeping away from me, I can start trying to convince her to voluntarily climb onto my arm.

I am sooo jealous Erin! But you are days ahead of us. LOL

Hey Erin, check this out!!! LOL Bourbon told me last night that we were giving her too much credit on the progress we are making with Shadow and Donna. But my response was this, "We wouldn't be making any progress at all without your help, because we wouldn't know what to do!". Be modest all you want Bourbon! But we are grateful, and so are our suggies!!!

Time for some yogurt on a stir stick again... LOL

EDIT: Donna was taking the yogurt from the stick so gently that I dipped my finger in and offered it to her. My finger still stings!!! Yikes! She didn't attack, but she did get a good open mouthed grip on it. DARNIT! Back to the stick...

I'm wondering...if she is wanting to take the stir stick away from you (cause we all know how much our gliders like to play with straws) would a popsicle stick work better? Not as big and intimidating as the spoon but maybe not as "fun" as the stir stick?

I didn't think about that. Hmm... But my girls really aren't big "players". It almost seems as though they never learned how to play. Seems like a box of popsicles may be on the grocery list today though. I don't trust the craft sticks to be chemical free. Thanks for the idea Teresa!

What about a baby spoon? My girls are that way too, they will grab my finger and try to take it! Then they swat at me and of course bite but not too hard. They are getting the idea but I am still getting nipped occasionally. Shadow nipped me too when in the tent at first but the tst tst sound works pretty well to stop him. Ya Bourbon is funny "I'm just sittin here drinking a Mountain dew and smoking a ciggarette, you guys are doing all the work" Couldn't have done it with out her help though. I feel like I have a different glider. He really is very sweet

Bourbon, once I get the pp pouch from Karen, I volunteer to be your next pupil.

HA HA HA! Brittney, she wouldn't even wait for me to get the PP pouch in the mail! LOL

i plan on copy-ing all of this. i need help, also , w/my cosmos. he is a pp, plus a pitbull biter, & he lunges @ me, also. he can be really mean. i bought a couple of those from karen sometime back, & it did help some, but i didn't do all the things everyone on here has done. somenites he would be fine, & others it was like he became the tazmanian devil!!!!
i am hoping that he will get over all of his bad habits.
i was told that he is in his teenage yrs, & that most will do that for awhile, since we got him as being somewhat older than normal. i think he may be 8 mos, i would have to get his papers out to know the exact age. he had already had a set of younger sibs, & mom & pop had him be the sitter of the kids, & that is why he acts the way he does.
this crabbing, & lunging, & then biting to not let go has got to stop. i don't think my fingers can take much more of this.
so, w/me having all this printed out, i will be able to start back from the beginning, & move on from there.
talk @ ya L8R
josefine

robin, erin, LOL

I do sit with my legs up smoking and drinking my dew.. LOL.. after all what else is there to do.. the 4 grandkids have their time with me (ALL THE TIME), I gotta find something to do that is productive, Caden has been so good, I have had a little free time these days.. but really you all are the ones doing the work.. and your gliders are loving you for it, now me on the other hand is just another giant in their tiny world.

Robin, try a regular spoon use the back handle of it, it will be harder for her to grab or bite for that matter.

I did rush things a bit and try to feed Donna licky treats off my bare finger today and I think we are making progress. If I watch her little mouth like a hawk, I can see the subtle lil things that tell me she is about to use her teeth. When she is just going to lick, her lil tongue just comes out. But when she plans to use her teeth, I can see her eye-balling me in the face and pause while she thinks about it. That gives me a chance to slowly withdraw my finger, then dip it back in the treat. So she is learning that if she prepares to bite me, the treat goes away.

Like Bourbon told me, 3 licks, take it away, 3 licks, take it away. That way she never really HAS the chance to bite me! It seems to be working girls!!!

In the past 2 days she has only left the pouch once while I had my hand in it. Also, I have been slowly taking the treat closer and closer to the edge of the pouch (away from her), and she is to the point that she will come all the way to the edge of the pouch, but she won't actually step OUT of the pouch onto my hand yet. When she does that, I will KNOW she is starting to trust me.

I am still so thrilled that I can reach in there and pet her and she doesn't crab or lunge and bite!!! Everything else is pretty much icing on the cake. But oooohhhhh do I want that icing!!!!!

I've been working with Bourbon now since 11-17 with my male gray (Mr.Bits) and my leu het pair (Ava & Nicoli). I've had Mr.Bits since May of this year. My leu het pair I recently bought 2-3 weeks ago. They are the crabbiest little furr butts I've ever seen. I couldn't bump the cage, move it, open it, stick my hand in to feed them w/o a crab or them darting out to bite me.

Mr. Bits I got as an adult. He's such a cutie & it has killed me that I can't play with him. Such as petting, holding & letting him use me as his own playground. He's never been very active or playful. He comes out long enough to eat & back into the pouch.

Since working w/ Bourbon, I have done what the rest of you have been advised to do. I flipped their world upside down. No pouches, nothing to hide in or under. No more blankies, yogies, mealies. Poor babies I know.

I do not give licky treats unless they are on a wooden popsicle stick or something similiar. I have fleece shirts that I wore through out the day drapped over their cages. This is a familiar for them. I have ordered my pouches & I'm waiting for them still. In the meantime, I've revised the best I could do to make them something suitable. The first night my leu het pair would not sleep in it. I found them huddled on a branch I have in their cage. So I took it out.

I closed the make shift pouch a little and they went to check it out. They are now sleeping in it every night. Today I cleaned cages... I didn't get a single crab from either cage. I was so shocked. Last night I let Nibbles & Mr. Bits out in the bathroom for playtime. I was so happy I cried. Mr. Bits hasn't taken to the licky treats. So last night I wanted him to come to me on his own terms. I tried again w/ some vanilla yogurt on a popsicle stick.

I could tell he was weary but he came around. While he got his 3 licks I was able to pet his head & he didn't run away. I've always been able to pet him but only when his heads burried in the pouch & he doesn't see me. Tonight I'm going to work with him climbing on my hand & not touching him (petting).

My leu het pair I bought were supposed to be hand tamed already. Well the sellers lied, but that's neither here nor there. I think the Ava has got twins in pouch, but I really can't tell b/c I can't handle her. Nicoli is just getting his bald spot & Ava is 1 yr OOP. My husband purchased them for me for Christmas in hopes that they would one day give me an adorable leu baby that I could name "Winter."

W/O being able to handle them, I'm afraid when they do have joeys they won't let me handle them as well. They will teach them that hands are bad. Bourbon said you have to look from their point of view, they weigh mere grams and we weigh lbs. We're like godzilla coming after them. I'd run & bite you too.

In just a few days Mr.Bits is more active than I've ever seen him. The crabbing has stopped for now. Now it's just being able to handle them w/o getting bit. Bourbon has been so wonderful & I can't begin to thank her enough for all she's done.

If you have a problem glider I'd contact her asap. She knows her stuff. She's down to earth, pulls no punches & gets the job done hands down.

THANK YOU BOURBON!!!

(sorry mod's about all caps... is it ok?)

I'm not a moderator, but I think the caps are just fine when expression this kind of emotion. She really is a great person for helping us out like this isn't she? I know I know... it's for the gliders. LOL But you can't tell me she doesn't enjoy seeing us so excited about their progress too. I am really hoping that someday down the road I can help others with their problem gliders too. You have to give back what you get, ya know?

An update on Bella and Donna. When I took everything out of their cage, I had to remove the wheel too as I had a petstore one that sat pretty far from the wall. Which made a good place to hide behind. Well, we got our stealth wheel today!!! The race will be on tonight when dinner is served I can tell you! I cannot wait to see what my girls think of it. I made a boo boo and ordered the senior. Man this thing is HUGE! Oops. LOL

I have read this whole thread - and not really sure if it completely applies to me?

I would love and appreciate any help from Bourbon though

I might be a little impatient - but I think things are going backwards, and I want to stop that before anything else.

My babies are 11 oop. Mak and Xylo - Mak is a real sweetie and I think I could get him to come around a lot more quickly than I could Xylo. I spend a great amount of time in their cage with them, but Xylo won't come out if I am in there - and Mak won't stay out unless I am in there. They are complete opposites!

CSteele - who I received them from - told me that they were getting up around 6pm for a little snack and then would be actually up for the night around 8 or so. That is not the case at all since they have been here. I am lucky if they are out and about before 10pm. Mak will come out and play - swing from fleece ropes, run in the wheel - take some mealies, and licky treats from me, but Xylo won't even take a mealie from me - he did when he first got here, but now now. Xylo will completely sneak out eat and go right back into the pouch. - I was asked about some noises, I have a heater that is kind of close to them - has a forced air sound, and we literally sit here with the lights off from 7pm on, we do have the TV on still though. Do you think a PP pouch would be good for my little guy? Although I guess I don't understand why he is "hiding" so much now. I was able to "pet" the pouch he was in and talk softly and nice to him - now he lunges and crabs at me if I touch the pouch. Any advice would be much appreciated!!

Yes, a (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets would help. The idea is to get your gliders to accept their surroundings. To make the normal activities and sounds just that, normal, a part of their environment. The (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets opens up their world to more than the inside of a pouch. It lets them see that "the bad stuff" outside really isn't bad.

I have to agree with Teresa. If he is lunging and biting while in the pouch, then he may very well be a pouch protector. Giving him a regular pouch just gives him a place to hide where he can't see what's goin on around him, which makes EVERYTHING something to be feared.

Also, their schedule change may simply be due to the change in environment and schedule from the breeder to you. Give it some time, gliders work on their own time frame, not ours! Cantankerous lil buggers, aren't they? LOL

UPDATE ON DONNA!

Donna came completely out of the cage for mealies this morning!!! I feed mealies with tweezers as they give me the willies, so she still won't associate chewy food with my fingers. LOL Of course, once she was on the outside of the cage, she went bonkers and ran from me. But she did glide to me once while she was out too. It was rather tricky getting her back IN the cage without grabbing her, but I managed to coax her back in by guiding her with my hands... after about 12 rounds around the outside of the cage mind you! Thanks goodness that thing is on wheels!!! LOL

Another plus is that both girls are now coming to the front bars of the cage right up to my hands now! I talk to them and touch their little feet. Soooooo cute!!! I think I mentioned that before, but I am so stoked! I'll try more licky treats on my fingers today. Bourbon was pleased when I talked to her last night that I am learning to read her body language and now I know when she is thinking about biting me. I see more progress folks!

Thanks for the round of applause Erin! LOL Howz Mr. Shadow doing???

I just opened the cage door and Donna came to check me out! She NEVER does that! I think just maybe she is starting to like me!!!!!

LOL! That's the same Bourbon I talked to earlier today. She's helping me with Rough & Tough, male rescues I got 7 months ago. I'm sure you can guess how they got their names.

I am their fifth and final home. I don't know about their first 3 homes. The last one, unfortunately, I do. Three males (Rough & Tough, who are brothers and Antwone, an unrelated, younger male) were all in a cage not big enough for a hamster. No toys, no wheel, no pouches. Just a dirty piece of fleece. The owner was owed money by a relative and reluctantly accepted the gliders instead. Couple months later, she called my vet, asking if she knew anyone who would want them. (Said she was allergic to them) My vet told her about me. As soon as I got the call, I was out the door. They had been fed cereal and bird food daily and an apple slice once a week. They hadn't been handled at all and the cage had apparently never been cleaned. The two brothers were bullying the younger male so my daughter took him.

Since then, the only progress I've been able to make is to be able to pet Rough on the head, three times when he's eating.

While talking to Bourbon today, I figured out some things I've been doing wrong.
1. I've been moving way to fast, pressuring them to let me come to them, instead of waiting for them to come to me.
2. I've not made them feel safe.
3. I've given them no reason to trust me.


First thing Bourbon had me do was to take out of the cage, EVERYTHING they could hide in, under or behind. That was everything in their cage! I used a hammock for a (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets until the one I ordered gets here, and put it right in front of the door, making sure I could reach straight in without moving the pouch. it's spaced 6 inches at the top, 2 inches at the bottom. Rough & Tough were displeased about having everything in their cage removed, BUT they stopped crabbing almost IMMEDIATELY!!! I've never heard them so quiet! In fact, I haven't heard them crab since then!

My assignment for the next 24 hours is to talk to them often. BUT, no licky treats, no petting, no putting my hand in the cage and no putting toys or anything else back in.

I'm so excited, I can hardly stand it! They stopped crabbing! Woohoo!

CONGRATULATIONS CONNIE!!!! I am so glad to have other make this journey with me! I think there are 4 or 5 of us doing this right now on this thread.

UPDATE: DAY 6 - Donna is on day 3 with no crabbing and day 2 that she hasn't gotten her teeth into me! I can now pet her tummy and her lil head while she's in the hammock too. Before i was too scared to touch anything other than her back bc she would strike like a snake.

My assignment today was to get her out of the cage by offering her my hand to climb on, then into the bathroom to play. I think she's on to me though... she creeped right out of the pouch and away from me before I could get my hand out of the cage. DARNIT! I'll try again in the morning while they are still actiev. Maybe a few mealies will tempt her to come to me... hmm... I wonder if that's allowed???

BOURBON! HELP! LOL

no mealies.. use the straw

Lol.. Is Bourbon just giving out free lessons??
Will she be helping me when/if I get my gliders, most likely they'll be rescues.

Glad everyone is getting their gliders turned into happy gliders...Bourbon is a miracle curer!!!

I don't know nuthin 'bout usin no straw Bourbon! LOL You're gonna have to clue me in on that one girl.

EDIT! Oh oh oh oh oh... are you talking about luring her outta the cage with the licky treat? I'm confused...

use the licky treats to lure her, not the mealies..

Woohoo!!!! I got to lay my hand on Rough and Tough today!!! They didn't crab. They didn't move. They didn't even try to bite. Not that my hand was in there but for the count of 1-2, per Bourbon's instructions, but they didn't do anything negative!

I gave them their straws with the applesauce inside. Tough (the HARD one!!!) licked and licked one end while I held the other end. He didn't even notice my hand! When he got all he could from one end, I turned it around and he happily started on the other end, STILL not noticing my hand! When he couldn't get any more out, I squeezed it for him, getting some on my finger in the process. He sniffed my finger and LICKED it! I let him lick 3 times, moved away, lick three times, move away, THEN he started sniffing instead of licking and ever so slowly, opened his mouth to bite me, but he didn't bite. It was like he was torn between biting or licking and really couldn't figure out if my hand was good or bad. As Bourbon says, if they lick, take your hand away. This teaches them, to make you go away, they have to do nothing or lick, not bite.

If someone has told me Rough and Tough would stop crabbing, I would have laughed at them. If they had told me, they would let me touch them, I have thought they were nuts! If they had told me they would LICK my finger instead of BITING it, I would NEVER have believed it!!!

I've been working with them for 24 hours. They've stopped crabbing, stopped running from me, let me touch them ever so briefly and licked my finger. ALL, in just [b]24 hours[/b.

Bourbon, you ARE The Sugar Glider Whisperer!!!

So true, she should start making webisodes!

Shadow update:

Yesterday he spent about 4 or 5 hours in the bonding pouch and was quiet most of the time. He crabbed at first but then settled in even as I moved about the house and did stuff. He is responding well to humming and quiets fast.

From the bonding pouch he went into the tent and he did great, he is getting more and more used to going on and off my hand each day. He is doing so great!

I am moving his pouch in one more notch today to see how he does with not crabbing. We are still working to get him used to my hand under him and to have him run up my arm so I can bring him to the tent. Tried that two nights ago with no luck, had to carry him in the pouch to the tent. Maybe tonight he will do it for me

Well, I was reminded to take it at THEIR pace, not mine! I'd been going in every hour and touching, offering licky treats and talking to them. The last time, I was crabbed at and one jumped to the back of the pouch. OK, fellas. I totally understand. Tomorrow is another day!