Day 4 Morning: Girls are being sweet again... moody little things! Pae is coming to the door (when she's awake) and climbing all over me. The only "problem" I had a HORRIBLE time getting her BACK into the cage! Not horrible, like she was biting but horrible in that she was just clinging to me and climbing further up my arm! Wouldn't be a problem but Emma is an escape artist and LOVES to glide and jump... bad combination right now!

Don't worry Bourbon, I would have just called you rather than [censored] out and chasing them.

But Emma came to my hand too and seemed like she was checking for food, she gave me a little nip but is was completely calm and she looks happy!!! (But need to fix this nipping business!)

So ups and downs but this morning was another up.


And yes, Bourbon. We all love you. How does that feel!?

Josefine,

This "method" is geared for individual gliders. Each of these people that are working with Bourbon are working with her directly discussing the individual situations and approaching their situtation accordingly. Having a printed out "book" of all this may HELP with Cosmos but none of these individual "plans" are geared to help Cosmos specifically.

Call Bourbon. Her phone number is in her signature.

She can help you figure out just which things you can do/try that will individually help with YOUR situation with not just Cosmos but all your gliders.

Unlike many glider diet plans, this trust building method is NOT set in stone. There are different options and flexability that come into play based on the individual situation.

You have been through so much with your gliders. I'm sure some of the "issues" are your fears because you just can't bear to loose another and that is completely understandable. But you definately have the love and dedication, just need some direction to determine just what your individual goals are with Cosmos and then some options to help him AND YOU reach those goals.

There is a HUGE difference between trust building and bonding. Before you can start to bond, you have to earn your glider's trust but YOU also need to learn to trust. To trust your glider but also to trust yourself. Once that trust is started, then you move on to bonding. Both of these things are LIFETIME projects. There is no instant permenant "fix" to any glider situation.

NEVER give up though! I've never met a glider that couldn't learn trust. Some are more stubborn or hesitant about giving it a chance but time and dedication will win out in the long run.

I agree with Teresa about everything she said! Not only that, but we don't all have so called "pouch protective" gliderss, I have seen all manner of ill behavior on this thread, not all what I oud say is pouch protection. WHat Bourbon is doing is tailoring what needs to be done to the needs of each glider and their behaviors. My Bella was NEVER crabby or nippy, but in the process of getting to know Donna, Bella and I have become closer. Super Bonus! LOL A lot of us started out doing the same things, but then our tactics changed as our gliders behaviors changed. I was nto allowed to "hand over" food, but someone else was encouraged to do so. What you will do with your glider will differ too.

If you need help with your glider, you can either leave a message here for Bourbon to give you the okay to call her, or just CALL HER! Her number is in her signature for anyone that needs it!

As far as a book... that actually sounds like a good idea to me. But it would be hard to do when its different for every glider. I do think a short book with the methods concerning trust building would be a big hit! You have time to write a book, right Bourbon? LOL

My PP gliders at dinner time last night...

http://i427.photobucket.com/albums/pp359/boundnbroken1/Bella%20Boo/Gliders/104_1433.jpg

The same rescues that could have cared less if I was alive or not and would crab NON-STOP. Now everyone comes to visit, somehow Annie didn't make it into the pics.

everyone is different, i know, & you are one of just a few that does know what little cosmos went thru, & yes, i don't know how i would react if i lost another one, the pain of the first 2 are still too fresh in my heart.
but, what i was thinking,was to have glider owners to be able to try these different types of technuiqes needed to build a good trust & bonding application. i don't have a good short-term memory(lacking one), & i could try each one out, until i find one that will work for him & me.
see, you need to come to the wagg, so you can help w/all of us. i need you, i need everyone's help.
we got 2 sisters (4yr olds) awhile back, & they were so nice & docile, now, they are crabbing like cosmos. his fear has evidently rubbed off onto them!i would still like to get a 'book' out for me to have & read.
there are so many posts w/good advice on this forum, that it should be printed as a book for the rest of the world to be able to buy. there are 100's of wrong ways, & there are rite ways, also, & this is a goal, i am sure, for all glider owners to achieve, & have.
i would really like to buy one of those 'tent pouches' that was mentioned in this thread, or the other one. i like the idea of letting my babies see out, & also stay warm. this type of pouch would be the next best thing to the pouches that karen makes.
talk @ ya L8R
josefine

Josefine, Bourbon could never write a book for owners because she tailors each "plan" to the glider and the owner. Most of what she does is to "train" the owner. Typically, the glider's behavior is based on the fear of the owner as well. Once the owner gets over their fears/anxiety/etc. then the real help to the glider starts. I can tell you that when I am getting claustraphobic and start to have an axiety attack, Bella starts getting anxious herself. I have now learned that I need to avoid certain things when I have Bella so i don't start her down the road of fear. Example... If Wal-Mart is packed, I can't go in with her. If I do, I need to really keep myself calm to keep her calm. I have noticed that if I get anxious, she is crabby ALL day after that.

For example. My girl Pae is not pouch protective so Bourbon and I are working on hand trust issues with her. Emma is pouch protective so we are just helping her work on getting used to the environment around her.

So while a lot of it is the same with the treats and dealing with trusting me but we are doing a lot different. Emma is the insecure one so we are moving more slowly with her but Pae is already coming to my hand and allowed to ride on me for a minute or two then put back in the cage.

How is everyone doing today? I want updates!!!

Day 5: I found out that the girls LOVE LOVE LOVE applesauce. Emma was all about that and even made a little "nom nom" noise. I loved it!

The girls were happy little girls and my hubby was able to pet Emma (I really do think that she likes him more anyways!!!). While he was saying hi to her, I took Pae out and had her run around on my arms. I loved it!

Bourbon actually had me close the pouch today as they are not sleeping in it... so then we will work it open. They are still in the make shift pouch and I closed it the way she suggested. So Emma went right up, she's the curious one and always needs to know what's in the cage. So she checked it out and curled up in it. But Pae was still in the corner and looking particularly nervous because Emma wasn't snuggled up with her like always. So I opened the cage and talked to her softly, she slowly came to the door. I put my hand out and she crawled on, again slowly but I didn't force ANYTHING, I just talked to her softly and let her do all of the moving. But she did it!!! So I pet her and then put her into the "pouch" that Emma was in!!

I'm so excited about how that went! Pae actually came to me from the corner of the cage!!!

Pogo is doign great, I can pick her up now if she is in the pouch and carry her to the other room for playtime. Were making progress!

Lily is not making a ton of progress. She won't take licky's off anythign but a spoon. She always seems depressed but at night she's glued to the cage next to Pogo seeming happy. I started intros last week, Bourbon said to go ahead and put them in the same cage, and see if she will learn some things from Pogo. sounds like a plan.

Little miss Sassy...

I talked to Bourbon last night about her and her "teenage nipping" that she is doing. All the gliders I've had here have gone through this "stage" and out grow it but with Sassy I didn't feel I should just "wait it out" like I normally do.

She doesn't bite out of any type of agression at all, these are nips to taste everything.

Now, I've never been one to do "licky treats" for several reasons but Bourbon made me see the licky treats as more than just getting them to "not bite" but also to not nip.

Sassy will readily come to my hands (in the cage) to check me out but then she has to try to taste every part of my hand. Bourbon said to put licky treat stuff (yogurt, applesause,what ever) on my hand so she will lick instead of nip.

Gliders will bite into branches etc to get the sap to run so they can lick it up. By it already being on the surface, she doesn't have to nip/bite to get to it.

Have to admit, she seemed so excited to have something to lick (and I just used her Reep's mix last night, part of her dinner) and clung on to my finger to keep me from taking it away. Then when I took my hand out of the cage, she was right there at the side of the cage saying "HEY come back! I wasn't done yet!"

ALL VERY SWEET last night!

11 years with gliders and STILL LEARNING!

Everyone is just doing so great with their gliders! It makes me smile everytime I read this post! We need more pictures of everyones babies being sweet!

So I'm back with a short video from today, I went in a scooped up Shadow just for you Bourbon! And also you can see their current set up-Now that they have "redecorated" anyway lol. (They chewed the string toy that hold everything up in half )

Shadow has come leaps and bounds. He is clam and so sweet! Maybe he will be a bra baby after all. I NEVER thought that I would be able to hold Shadow in my hand or cuddle with him. He was so flighty whan I got him, terrified and seemed to hate me. He would bounce all over his cage if I put my hand in at first and it took a while for a licky treat. Now he is just a doll. He always wants to come out and play with me and comes to see me when I go by the cage.

I am going to try to have them in a regular pouch soon. They are in Karin's swing hammock now, which was always one of their their favorite place to sleep pre Pouch protector pouch anyway lol. I may use the hammock and try to close it up gradually or go back to PP pouch and close it off bit by bit.

Here is the new video from today. He was a little confused as normally I only scoop him out to go to the tent for playtime. He gave a half crab. I think he was like "hey bright light bright light" lol.

Sweet Shadow

now I am sitting here crying.. that is absolutely beautiful. Erin, I am soooo proud of you and shadow..


to let others know.. Erin has been in the transition stage, of the pouch protector to a regular pouch, she already had the PP pouch closed all the way and was transiting them slowly , she is currently using Karin's swing hammock, and tried to move them to a regular pouch.. well .. that didn't go so well, so back into the swing hammock for them.. we are still going to continue trying to transition them into a regular pouch. I would like to use the swing hammock to try the transition. I have some ideas and will call you erin on those ideas.

Day 6: Girls are doing BEAUTIFULLY!!!

Emma and Pae are in the close pouch (it's still the make-shift pouch). I am able to reach in the pouch and pet them both and give them yummy treats. Emma is deveoloping such a beautiful personality. She is so curious and looks at me as if to say, "Don't try it crazy woman, I know what you're going to do..."

Then just a bit ago, I gave the girls some applesauce, they started grabbing my finger for this stuff! They don't do that for the yogurt, but this was also the first treat of the day (back to work this week... so hard on the loving-the-gliders schedule). But then, when I was done, I rinsed off my finger and finished the applesauce (cruel I know), I still have the cup in my left hand and opened the cage to pet Emma again. She was looking at the cup, then back into my eyes, cup, eyes, cup, eyes. There was a definite "Umm... excuse me... I wasn't done!" look in her face!

Pae (yes, timid, run-to-the-pouch whenever anyone is around, Pae) was excited to see my this morning when I got up. It was 4am and I turned on the light in the living room, she BOUNDED out of the pouch and straight to the door and was all smiles - "HI MOM!!!"

MELT MY HEART!

And this afternoon, I had my eyes locked with Emma's and when I winked, she winks back... she just kept looking at me... It was almost like she was trying to read what I was saying just as much as I was trying to read what she was saying.

I was able to pet the SIDE of Emma's head (unheard of a week ago) and she said at first, "Not my favorite", but then she let me and had the "well ok" look. And seemed comfortable with it.

But just now... the girls were saying "back off" when I said hi again, I've been bugging them too much, I think. So I backed off and when I shut the door, the hinge/bolt and screw made a squeak and crab crab crab (not loud, but a crab)... But I talked to them some more, really softly... and they are calm, tired, but calm... I feel bad though.

Okay, I just made a SUPER long post and my computer ate it, so I will try again! lol!

I just wanted to pop in and say a HUGE thank you to everyone who have been a part of this thread, especially Bourbon!

On December 28th I brought home Diva. And she was EVIL! lol! But over the course of a few days I realized that she is just EXTREMELY pouch protective. We are talking the whole shabang! From insane crabbing, to lunging, to biting me so hard, multiple times in a row that I have had blood running down my finger. So, I got on GC and started searching, as I have never had a PP glider before. And low and behold, here you all are! So, I have been reading for days! And you all have made so much amazing progress! And because of BOurbon and this thread, Diva and I started our new journey together on Sunday!

TO start, like most of you, I did not have a (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets, so I decided to do what I do best, lol, and crocheted Diva a glider bowl! It works AMAZING! Thanks for the idea Amanda!

So, Sunday morning I took everything out of her cage that she could hide in. And for those of you that are stressing about glider enrichment, this does not mean that her cage was emptied. She still has TONS of toys and a Custom Cruiser! Anyway, Diva went right into the "bowl" and curled up for the day! I came and sat by the cage once an hour and talked to her and read her "Twilight"! lol! I figured it was fitting since she is my little bloodsucker! lol! And guess what!? Not a peep out of her! Not a single crab! She would just look up at me when I would first walk up to her and then would curl back up for sleep. Perfect day 1!

Monday, I repeated Sunday, only I did it with the cage door open and with my hand rested inside the cage close by her new bed. Still, not a peep! She was leary of my hand at first, but once she saw that I wasnt going to grab at her, she settled right back into her little glider ball and listened to me read. Perfect day 2!

Which brings us to today! I repeated what I had previously done, only this time I rested my hand ON her new bed! And she was wonderful! No fear! But tonight was the real breakthrough! I decided to try licky treats! I was petrified! lol! I know how bad her bites hurt! But guess what!!!???!!! She licked my fingers clean!! And not even a nibble! She just sat right there in her crocheted bowl and licked honey off of my fingers!! I was floored! This coming from the glider that laid into my finger so hard and wouldnt let go, JUST A WEEK AGO!

I am so proud of Diva and the progress she has made in just 3 short days! And again I want to thank all of you from the bottom of my heart for these threads! Bourbon, you are Wonder Woman! Thank you! I am so excited about this journey of love and trust that Diva and I are getting to share! And hopefully, one day soon, she will be united with the girls, and they can live happily together with me!

I will keep you all updated daily, in hopes that my story will help someone else, like yours have helped me!

Eeeekkk! One more! lol! Look what I just caught on camera!

Hey Brandy, haven't seen ya in awhile.. great job, but let me add to your post a bit, something that I feel is so important to this technique, I really believe without it, that this technique would very much be like many of the others. Also something that would work, no matter what technique you use.

Brandy (gangstermom) was at a local gathering with me, where I did a session on trust building. The talk was very dramatic, very impacting and probably one of the most relationship changing talks I had ever given, it was a starting point for not only others but myself as well, to work harder. at not working as hard. to change the way we do things, for me It showed me I needed to tweak a method I knew could work, but also do it in a fashion that was far less traumatic for the gliders.

we spent a lot of time, putting ourselves into our gliders places, a lot of time, looking at what we ourselves have been and had done, that was NOT giving the gliders a chance to trust us, we discussed NOT taking the time to learn our gliders, their body language, the subtle little ways of trying to communicate their feelings and fears. and how by not taking that time, was adding to their stress and fear.

we took gliders who were scared to death, opened them up and seen how quickly they calmed down.

but through it all, everyone in that room, started thinking differently every time they went to their gliders cage, they started looking differently at their playtime, they started their trust building with not only love , understanding and compassion, but also with empathy and that is I really do believe is what has made that huge difference.

When the owners finally sit back, and really look at what they are doing, changes take place, this could happen in a regular pouch an open pouch, a hammock, a box, a bowl(some gliders need to be opened first) to those gliders they find the security in the open.

my first advice to everyone I have worked with directly, is stop, slow down, take the time to learn your glider, each and every movement they make, those movements are their ways of communicating with you, find out what scares them, find out what makes them react, find out how to make them feel safer. This should be done BEFORE a glider is removed from it's cage.

There are many ways to do this, but by far the best, is really just letting your glider know everything is going to be okay, and study them, as you give them a chance to study you as well.listen to them, their body language will tell you so so much.

Another joyous thing from Ohio was unzipping your pouch. Then Delilah got loose when we tried to clip her nails, low and behold she came back to me and got in her pouch. And I thought my gliders weren't bonding to me.

You are exactly right Bourbon! The Ohio gathering completely changed the way I view my gliders, and the bond I have with my girls is so much deeper because of it. And hopefully one day soon I will have the same with Diva. Thank you again for such an insightful, amazing, and meaningful experience!

White gliders look so purty curled up in red fleece!

Brandy, congrats on the progress so far.

Everyone else is showing off how well their gliders are doing, so I figured I should too One is Ranger licking yogurt off of my finger and the other is him riding around the house beneath my hood.

I am in tears too here Erin!!! OMG! Just WOW! Shadow has come so far, I just can't believe it! CONGRATULATIONS!!!

To all of you... GOOD JOB!!! I have some new pics to share, but I'll post them later so as not to steal anyone's thunder. LOL

Robin, post post! I want to see!

ME TOO!!!!!

Haha! Robin you've got Bourbon begging!!!

Lemme see what I can dig up...

I need ot upload the ones of them in my actual hands. LOL I'll be back in a bit...

I'm so excited to meet you and Hopefully one of your babies!

Great pics! Thanks for sharing Can't wait to see the rest of them Robin!

hi everybody,
i have been reading all of this message for the last 2 hrs. and found it to be very enlighting.
when i got my rocky in sept. of 08 he was supposed to be handled and tame, a couple of days before i was to pick him up the breeder told me ''they were busy so my joey has not been handled" i thought ok he is going to be hard to train like my sugar when i got her.
oh my god. no comparison. he was extremly pouch protective, lunger, biter, you name it, he did it.
i worked with him every night and i still have bite scars on my hands that i think will never go away.
i only wish that i had known abt. glider central when i got rocky because i would of bought the (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets and used
it according to bourbon's instructions.

regards,
nancy in detroit

p.s. i bought rocky as a cinnamon, he is not a cinnamon but he is a true bb and i also learned that from this talk forum.
sugaree erin you have a bb grandson(father-garcia)