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Re: CCW/Pocket Pets of Dallas-NAME CHANGE! [Re: DeeDancer] #708589
01/07/09 05:40 PM
01/07/09 05:40 PM

T
TWilson
Unregistered
TWilson
Unregistered
T



We know all about Mr. Klunder and all that he has had his hands in.

He sells gliders that are too young and most of the time have giardia.

The CDC will step in because giardia is a health risk to humans, but will only get involved when there are 85 confirmed case. By confirmed, we need documentation from vets that have treated gliders purchased from (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets.

I see people on here that have purchased gliders from them and they are found to have giardia. We need your help, with copies of your vet records, we can do something about (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets.

If you have purchased a glider from them, please pm LSardou, thefotokat, or myself. You can also visit the link in my signature for further information on how you can help.

Re: CCW/Pocket Pets of Dallas-NAME CHANGE! [Re: ] #708593
01/07/09 05:50 PM
01/07/09 05:50 PM
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 5,336
Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
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Bourbon Offline
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Bourbon  Offline
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Joined: Apr 1999
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Tammy the move should be on at the same time to hit the mega breeders that are supplying the joey that also have giardia, just stopping one group of brokers although the largest, but guarantee they won't be the last.opening a new company using someone else, a new business license under that persons name they will be back in business.

just as the feds doing a major bust, they hit many areas at the same time, from the dealers down to the suppliers all at the same time, the mega breeders also needs to feel the bites that are hitting (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets

he is a pro at what he does. and he knows how to get around it.

Re: CCW/Pocket Pets of Dallas-NAME CHANGE! [Re: Bourbon] #708599
01/07/09 05:55 PM
01/07/09 05:55 PM
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 11,583
Sycamore Illinois
Karin Offline
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Karin  Offline
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Posts: 11,583
Sycamore Illinois
Does anyone know who supplies to him? Not just speculation?

Karin


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Re: CCW/Pocket Pets of Dallas-NAME CHANGE! [Re: Bourbon] #708624
01/07/09 06:15 PM
01/07/09 06:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,640
Mims, Florida, USA
hushpuppy Offline
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hushpuppy  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,640
Mims, Florida, USA
Actually Bourbon, you are partially correct. (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets is owned by GRE, and GRE is solely owned and operated by Kathy Klunder. She is the President, Treasurer and the Registered Agent. And she is the only name affiliated with GRE.

As I said before, (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets has a dealerís license, not a breeders license. They get their gliders through a broker. A broker is a person who makes a living by contacting the mills and making sure that retailers have all the animals they need. So when (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets has a show coming up they simply contact their broker and place an order for X number of gliders and it is the brokerís responsibility to contact his list of resources and make sure that the order gets filled. The gliders are coming from many mills. That is why you sometimes get healthy ones and sometimes you get sick ones. That is why you sometimes get older ones and sometimes you get three week old joeys. It all depends on which mill the broker is dealing with and which gliders the breeder grabs when he put his hand in the cage.

When you think about the fees to enter these events, the travel costs of the workers, hotel rooms, food, wages plus the cost of the gliders, it is mind boggling how many gliders have to sold just for (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets to break even.


Anita Rae
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Re: CCW/Pocket Pets of Dallas-NAME CHANGE! [Re: hushpuppy] #708831
01/07/09 09:52 PM
01/07/09 09:52 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,360
Ft. Pierce, FL
thefotokat Offline
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thefotokat  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,360
Ft. Pierce, FL
The mill breeder Project and Small Paws are both working on projects involving the mill breeders/brokers/mega breeders/etc. Education is our most important tool. Linda Sardou has been compiling vet records, so the more that are sent in, the more we have to fight with. Like Anita said, it is insane at how many joeys are sold for them to cover costs. That's why the gliders are looked at as "inventory". To these breeders/brokers, they are just a way to make money. It's a horrible situation.

Re: CCW/Pocket Pets of Dallas-NAME CHANGE! [Re: thefotokat] #708839
01/07/09 10:00 PM
01/07/09 10:00 PM

P
peem
Unregistered
peem
Unregistered
P



Hi, i have vet documents regarding this matter...how can i help? ill do anything u need. my little one is being treated for giardia right now.
michelle

Re: CCW/Pocket Pets of Dallas-NAME CHANGE! [Re: ] #708842
01/07/09 10:04 PM
01/07/09 10:04 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,360
Ft. Pierce, FL
thefotokat Offline
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thefotokat  Offline
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Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 1,360
Ft. Pierce, FL
sending you pm

Re: CCW/Pocket Pets of Dallas-NAME CHANGE! [Re: thefotokat] #708871
01/07/09 10:36 PM
01/07/09 10:36 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,640
Mims, Florida, USA
hushpuppy Offline
Glider Slave
hushpuppy  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,640
Mims, Florida, USA
Way to go peem, I wish we had more like you. SESG needs everyone who has bought a sick or hurt glider to document and send that information in. It is a vital part of this fight.

And we need more people who are willing to roll up their sleeves and get involved. It is a good thing that we can talk about these issues but there is a lot of misinformation being put out. So what we need more than that is people to write letters, people who can identify a sick glider and who know which organization to compain to when the see it. We need factual information compiled and docked at Small Paws and SEST so that it will be available for the newbys. We need writers and artist and photographers to make up hard hitting brochures so that we can get them proffessionally printed. People who know the laws of the state that they live in. Ok, I guess I went off on a rant. But I see so much passion for these babies and if we could just focus that passion in one direction, we could move mountains.


Anita Rae
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Re: CCW/Pocket Pets of Dallas-NAME CHANGE! [Re: hushpuppy] #709298
01/08/09 10:13 AM
01/08/09 10:13 AM
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 5,336
Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
B
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis
Bourbon  Offline
Serious Glideritis
B

Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 5,336
Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
so does no one know who is supplying (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets with gliders? who is it they have buying the gliders for them?

Re: CCW/Pocket Pets of Dallas-NAME CHANGE! [Re: Bourbon] #709306
01/08/09 10:34 AM
01/08/09 10:34 AM
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 343
Northern VA.
GliderGuyVA Offline
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GliderGuyVA  Offline
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 343
Northern VA.
From what I can tell there are many brokers out there. If a dealer purchases from several brokers then preventing the giardia issue is going to be hard. Some may use Panacur while others will not. You mix the babies up and then they all get it. As far as selling them too young, or in bad physical condition, that is whole other issue too.

Last edited by GliderGuyVA; 01/08/09 11:02 AM.

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Re: CCW/Pocket Pets of Dallas-NAME CHANGE! [Re: GliderGuyVA] #709533
01/08/09 02:49 PM
01/08/09 02:49 PM

D
DARON
Unregistered
DARON
Unregistered
D



I can tell you for a fact tha (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets is breeding their own Gliders. Thats not to say that if they are running low or cant meet their demand that they wouldnt contact someon e else(another breeder) to fulfill that demand. Their main breeding operation is in Georgia. (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets considers theri Regional Retailers as brokers. So they((PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets the Parent corp) breed them and then ship them all over the country to their Regional sellers, who intern use the (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets name giving them the access to all of their products and website, which all of this makes them look really professional to a newbie. Their breeding operation is walls of 12"x12"x12" cages. To answer Anita's question, Im sure regional sales people make some $ from the gliders, but where they really make the $$ is from the cage & supplies they force you to buy for $450 & up, & then the items on their website that people go to that dont know of other places.

Re: CCW/Pocket Pets of Dallas-NAME CHANGE! [Re: ] #709567
01/08/09 03:29 PM
01/08/09 03:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,640
Mims, Florida, USA
hushpuppy Offline
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Posts: 1,640
Mims, Florida, USA
Daron, you sound pretty sure of yourself. Would you mind pm'ing me what evidence you have the (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets is breeding in GA. I promise you that I will check it out, but I think it is unlikely since Georgia has been an illegal state until a few months ago. If you have info, please share it with me.

I know they make a lot of $ from the sales of glider stuff, but that doesn't concern me. What concerns me is the sick and dying gliders that they sell, and the way they scam the public. If they were running a clean operation with healthy non mill gliders, and if they were being honest about how to care for the gliders, I wouldn't care and I don't think anyone else would either.

Mills are wrong! Dog mills, glider mills, hamster mills. It doesn't make any difference what kind of animals. They are all cruel and inhumane.


Anita Rae
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Re: CCW/Pocket Pets of Dallas-NAME CHANGE! [Re: hushpuppy] #709601
01/08/09 03:54 PM
01/08/09 03:54 PM
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 5,336
Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
B
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis
Bourbon  Offline
Serious Glideritis
B

Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 5,336
Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
please people keep in mind, that mega breeders and mill breeders are not the same thing.

Mega breeders have large numbers, but they are on the up and up, clean environments, sanitary conditions, and good info with the gliders health and safety in mind. just because they have numbers, it doesn't make them bad


mill breeders the gliders are not a priority many times they are in 12" cages, the gliders are ill and the conditions of the facility is generally a lot to be desired. these breeders often have huge numbers and the gliders care is not important

Re: CCW/Pocket Pets of Dallas-NAME CHANGE! [Re: Bourbon] #709613
01/08/09 04:01 PM
01/08/09 04:01 PM
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 5,336
Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
B
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis
Bourbon  Offline
Serious Glideritis
B

Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 5,336
Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
somehow some way there must be a paper trail on these gliders that are being sold, some type of documentation must be available for usda, cdc or someone else that needs to find the origin. has anyone contacted the usda agent for that area where they are breeding them?

Re: CCW/Pocket Pets of Dallas-NAME CHANGE! [Re: Bourbon] #709649
01/08/09 04:32 PM
01/08/09 04:32 PM

S
suggiemom
Unregistered
suggiemom
Unregistered
S



Kate - I talked to my vet recently and she will speak to any glider owners that come in with a sick glider. If they've purchased from (PPP) Perfect Pocket Pets she will get their permission to turn over their records to us.

Re: CCW/Pocket Pets of Dallas-NAME CHANGE! [Re: ] #709741
01/08/09 06:11 PM
01/08/09 06:11 PM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,640
Mims, Florida, USA
hushpuppy Offline
Glider Slave
hushpuppy  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,640
Mims, Florida, USA
Bourbon, again you are partially correct. A mill breeder is anyone who puts profit ahead of the health and wellbeing of the animal and being a mill has nothing to do with the number of animals. There are back yard mills and there are huge mills. Most large scale mills started out as back yard mills.

A mill considers their animals as stock and these profit driven enterprises typically fail to provide veterinary care, adequate diet, sufficient cages, or exercise in order to put out their product at a competitive price. Often the animals are so deprived of nutrition that their bones and teeth weaken. Their fur turns dull, urine stained and falls out. When supply exceeds demand and animals are deemed to old to sell, they are auctioned off or simply killed. Small over crowded cages caked with feces and urine are can easily spread worms, respiratory infections, coccidian and giardia. And breeding animals are bred non stop until their bodies wonít produce anymore, then they are disposed of.

A responsible breeder has a clear knowledge about the genetics of the animals they are breeding and never allow accidental breeding. They provide veterinary care and balanced diets and enrichment. Their animals are well socialized and get out of cage time. They thoroughly screen and educate the new owner about health and care of the animals. A responsible breeder understands that bonded pairs shouldnít be separated even if they are not producing offspring. And they have a neutering program in place designed to reduce the rescue population.

No matter how many gliders a breeder has, if they sell directly to the public, either in person, or at the flea market, or through the news paper, or over the internet, they only need a breederís license. If they sell to other breeders, pet stores, brokers, or class B dealers, they need a dealerís license.

Last edited by hushpuppy; 01/08/09 06:13 PM.

Anita Rae
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Re: CCW/Pocket Pets of Dallas-NAME CHANGE! [Re: hushpuppy] #710724
01/09/09 05:16 PM
01/09/09 05:16 PM
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 5,336
Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
B
Bourbon Offline
Serious Glideritis
Bourbon  Offline
Serious Glideritis
B

Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 5,336
Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
It's nice to know you think I am at least partially correct on each post I am making in this thread, it makes me feel real good, that I have you to fill in the blanks so the "whole and complete and fine tuned detailed" info is available for all to read.
Not that I mind.. you see because the Complete info needs to be out there, who is this breeder again in ga that is supplying these gliders? fill in that blank for me please

Re: CCW/Pocket Pets of Dallas-NAME CHANGE! [Re: Bourbon] #710782
01/09/09 06:37 PM
01/09/09 06:37 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
Anita, you are only partially correct. A responsible breeder should know the lineages of their gliders so they can prevent inbreeding but they do not need to be geneticsists and know the full genetics of their animals.

Also, you again are only partially correct in that it does matter how many gliders a breeder has. If they have less than three breeding females, they do not need a USDA license. Also, a breeder can sell to another breeder without a dealer's license on the assumption that the purchaser is buying a pet regardless if that purchaser decides to then let their pet produce offspring. Also if a small breeder with less than three females chooses to, they CAN sell to other breeders regardless of how many gliders THAT breeder has and the seller does not need to have a dealers license.


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