See Part 1 here

I must say I really didn't think that adding the names to the Platinum (i.e. Haley Platinum, Silverbell Platinum) was the best solution. I was really on board with changing the mosaics to "platinum-colored" or "silver". But I think it's already been (or is being) changed in Priscilla's database & that's what she & Sheila decided. I do like Shelly's idea of shortening it to S-Platinum or H-Platinum or SH-Platinum & then just putting a disclaimer about what that means.

That being said, I think maybe Priscilla is ALSO (correct me if I'm wrong) changing or has changed the mosaics in her database to say "platinum colored". If you look at Mac, his pedigree now says "platinum colored mosaic".
http://www.thepetglider.com/pedigree/modules/animal/pedigree.php?pedid=63

I tend to think of myself as (not an expert but) decently knowledgeable and able to follow this stuff. I don't know exactly how Mac was listed before, but I must have either not noticed the word "mosaic" at all or it wasn't on there or I was just new enough to not know any better & just hadn't really looked at it in a long time. Because until yesterday when I looked at it again, I thought Mac was a platinum. And even after I started this thread & saw y'all talking about all platinums coming out of Silverbell & Haley, I think I was still wondering "What about Mac?" Some of my gliders are out of Mac, but I'm not breeding for Platinum, so this wasn't really an issue for me. But I don't think we should just assume that everyone should know better. It IS important to make sure there's some distinguishing verbiage for platinums & platinum mosaics. I don't think it's right to assume everyone should know the difference. The word is the same. I think to most general people who haven't been studying it, this looks essentially the same as saying WFB and WFB mosaic. Wouldn't you assume the WFB means the same thing in both cases? And rightfully so....because it does. So it's confusing that platinum is being used in two ways & not being explained SOMEhow either by changing the mosaics to "platinum-colored" or changing the Platinums to include the origin....or something.

I'm just saying I'm glad the bigger breeders are doing SOMEthing to change this.

Misty

Oh yeah...and...

I noticed yesterday that Eileen wasn't listed with Ethan any more in the lineage of my gliders & I had wondered why that was. Thanks for explaining Sheila. I don't know if Priscilla's database has this functionality built into it or not, but it would be really nice to receive an email when a change is made that affects the lineage of our gliders.

Misty

Yeah, I too was really on board with changing the mosaics to "platinum-colored" or "silver".

I think we needed this to help stop confusion and know if the glider is actually a plat or just a colored plat/silver.


Thank you Sheila and Priscilla' for making that change.



However I am not on board with changing things to say Haley or silverbell Plat. line. I just do not see this as being necessary.

That stuff can just be looked up.

I think both changes were made in Priscilla's database already, April. I'm pretty sure the platinum mosaics were changed to "platinum colored mosaics" and the platinums were changed to "Haley Platinum" and "Silverbell Platinum".

I just did a little search on the pedigree database. I don't know if ALL of the gliders have been changed or just some.

Misty

Misty, Eileen wasn't the mother to Mickey and Minnie. It was a gray female(no name, I guess?). Sheila just made that announcement the other day on another forum. Ethan was with more then one female.

Also, not all Platinums come from Haley or Silverbelle. There have been multiple platinums that came from leu/WF lines that didn't have Haley in them. Sheila has a platinum that came from Mosaic lines with NO Haley in it and then Becca has all her platinums that came from leu lines with no Haley in them either.

Yes Misty, I went through and changed everything to platinum colored.

The reason in the difference of the lines, is because we are not 100% sure that the 2 lines react yet. Shelly's worked but it may not have been a combination of the 2.

No answered my question as to the Platinum that Jason produced... it is not out of Haley and is out of a mosaic offspring of Taz who was produced by Shakesphere. This mosaic offspring was then sold to Jason and he paired the mosaic to a WF Blonde and together they produced a Platinum. Sheila "purchased" this baby from Jason as a Platinum glider. It is not a Mosaic. This baby has No Haley or FFR gliders in it.

Since there are several Platinums that are being produced and unrelated to Haley or FFR... the color name should just remain as a Platinum. It results from a combination of the Leucistic gene with some of the WF Blonde lineages.

When I purchased Shy Baby who is out of Micky and Minnie... I was told that Micky and Minnie were out of Ethan and Eileen. Now this goes back to May of 2003 as I just pulled Shy Baby's papers for the date.

So now we also have a conflict as to who Ethan was paired to when Mickey and Minnie where produced? Does anyone realize how many Hets those two gliders produced with Ethan and Eileen in the lineages along with Sesamie and Shy Baby? All with Grandparents named Ethan and Eileen?

Judie, are you referring to Liani? She's from Miranda(mosaic) and Leo. Miranda is from Paschal(Shakespeare and Amy) and Sunshine(Sunny and Comet). So, she's actually from the Haley line since Comet is from Haley and Mickey. However, she DID have another platinum, Annabelle, from Caspian and Magnolia, neither of which are from the Haley or Silverbelle lines.

I do not know the name of the mosaic that Jason purchased from Sheila. I just know it was paired to a WF Blonde named Phinn or an offspring of his. So, perhaps it was Miranda she sold to Jason.

I tried to find the glider over on Sheila's site but could not locate the glider on her Meet the Family Page.


I do know Jason had a thread here on GC when the little one came oop. with photos.

Jason bought Miranda from Sheila. (I believe he may have changed her name - not sure.) Miranda is a mosaic, and is a full sister to my Bosley that produced my platinum joey Nicky. Her first offspring was a platinum that went to Sheila.

Hope that helps Judie!

BTW - I'm glad some changes are being made, but I still feel that a platinum should just be called a platinum. As Nicole said, look at the lineage to know the lines they came from.

I still think the only change that needs made is to the mosaic lines. I appreciate calling them platinum colored, but calling them silver would completely eliminate any confusion. Its the same as the white mosaics; I'm not aware of anyone calling them leucistic mosaics. They say white, so why not just call the plat mos silver? Seems easy to me, but I'm not the one that need to make any changes either. Just my opinion.

Jason's post about his plat joey is here

Thanks, Shelly. No more confusion. BY the way, your Platinum boy is Beautifull.

Thanks! I just *might* have him with me at the SGGA.

Yup, that's the little girl, Liani, Judie.

Here's her lineage: http://www.toandfrogliders.com/Download/Downloads_For_Java/liani_gen.html

She's from the Haley line.

Got it. Thanks. I also have a brother to Leo. He is the father to my White Mosaic named Picasso.

There was another thread just started by Karin, and someone suggested calling the "platinum colored mosaics" Powdered mosaics.

I think that might be a great idea... saying Powdered mosaic if they are born that way, and powered out mosaic if the coloring comes with age.

???

I agree... just because people are now saying Platinum colored? It hasn't changed the confusion to it all. It's the exact same word... and infers a GENE code diluting the color expressed.

The Mosaic is not born powdered. The baby is Platinum or Champagne colored and Powders out as the joey gets older. Mosaics that are Gray do not Powder out.

Since some of the True Platinum and Champagne colored gliders seem to Powder out when older... how can Powdered only be used for the Mosaics Only?

It's just a suggestion to get some more creative juices flowing to help come up with a solution that everyone will love.

Obviously the word powedered will strike a nerve with some people, while others will love it.

Hopefully we'll all be able to be open and receptive to a positive change that will ease the apparent confusion of using Platinum in 2 different ways!

I thought there were a lot of normal colored mosaics that powder out as they mature.

But I've only viewed in pictures, so can't say first hand for sure. I'd venture a guess from what I've seen, that a lot of the gray colored mosaics do powder out though.

Here's my 1st mosaic born here, Miya, she has gotten lighter (powdered out) as she's gotten older, but, I still refer to her as just a ringtail mosaic

(click to make the pics bigger)
Miya as a joey (2 weeks OOP):


Miya@ 11 weeks:


Miya at a week shy of 3 months OOP:


and Miya now:

I have only seen the Powdered Look in Champagne colored Mosaics and in Platinum Colored Mosaics. Never in a Dark colored Mosaic. A mosaic with very little white on it.

Then again... I am a smaller breeder so perhaps I have missed something too? So, I am open to being corrected.

Well then, we have the same problem with some of the Mosaics Powdering Out as some of the True Platinums do too.

Seems we are back to square one again.

Becci, your little one is Beautifull. One reason I love the Mosaics... each one is different. You never know what color or pattern you will be getting.

Minimally-marked gray mosaics can definitely powder out to platinum-colored.

Here's Gil when he was younger:


Here he is now, almost platinum-colored:


So, I think that having "powdered" and "powdered out" might just get a bit confusing, especially since you'd then have to go through and change the entries once the gliders are powdered out. :\

Maybe we should just called mosaics "mosaics" and if people want to add what TYPE of mosaic they are, then they could put it in the description.

Although, personally, I like the color description "silver". *shrugs*

So, does the True Platinum become Powdered Looking when it is older also?

No, the true platinums are born that way.

The only thing I've noticed with the Platinums is that because they are so light in color, you can see the pouch staining quite easily.. So as they get older, and are away from mom and dad, that staining coloring disappears and makes them look even more silvery. But the color doesn't change... the stain just finally is gone.

So what do you call this? Powdered or not? lol