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Re: Too much calcium? [Re: ] #837012
09/12/09 11:54 AM
09/12/09 11:54 AM

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Originally Posted By: Rita
Why does everyone suggest using calcium carbonate over calcium citrate? Ive read that calcium citrate is easier to absorb...?


Rita.. I dont think it's 'more' recommended.. just easier to find and cheaper.
Rep-cal is made from oyster shells. Calcium Carbonate is found in rock, eggs shells, snails etc. Citrate is calcium salt of citric acid. So it depends on what kind of diet you feed.. PH plays a role

http://www.healthcastle.com/calciumcarbonate-calciumcitrate.shtml

I use one with both..

http://www.allstarhealth.com/f/kirkman-calcium_powder_with_vitamin_d_hypoallergenic.htm

Re: Too much calcium? [Re: ] #837234
09/12/09 09:16 PM
09/12/09 09:16 PM

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Thank you, Kris! The article is very informative. And I didnt realize you could get calcium with both citrate and carbonate - guess what I will be ordering when mine runs out? grin

Re: Too much calcium? [Re: ] #838183
09/14/09 11:09 PM
09/14/09 11:09 PM
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 5,336
Bee-Bopping round SnakePit USA
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Bourbon Offline
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oh god, this battle of which vet is better is really getting old,..

fact is right now no one, repeat NO ONE knows how the gliders process their calcium.. or which calcium works better for the gliders, or whether or not they absorb more than the other marsupials, mammals etc..

there was some interesting questions posed here recently, and instead of arguing which vet knows more, how about someone who believes in the HPW wholeheartedly, take a chance of placing a glider on strictly the HPW mix, to find out how they do with it, we already know that the calcium levels going in are low, but the levels in the blood are showing a much higher figure.

again could it be that the gliders don't need that much calcium, not just d3 but the calcium itself?

I personally would love to know,

as for whether a glider can get too much calcium in their diet, I personally have never seen or heard where gliders have gotten any crystals built up around or in their organs. although in humans that is where it would show up. crystals in the urine, I have seen more with gliders adding the higher acidic foods to their diets, as modifications to the bml, which is why the ph in the diet also plays a very important role.

so if a glider can get too much "calcium" is news to me, except as was mentioned if their is already a problem in their system.

Quote:
I have been told by my doctor and a pharmicist that it needs to be citrate because due to the surgery and what was taken out my body cannot absorb the other fast enough before it passes out of the body.


the oyster shell calcium actually processes slower and absorbs slower and what the body doesn't used is passed out as waste. whereas the carbonate, is absorbed much faster

but before anyone changes their plan or modifies anything, please find out the above answers first.

The diets that are out there are starting points. it leaves room for growth, and much learning still needs to be done, but the right questions need to be asked, and to be honest each vet, not just Drs. Tristen or Bradley is based on THEIR education, THEIR experiences. I wouldn't disregard anything either one has to say, because I believe their responses are based on THEIR experience.

I have seen too many vets, give answers on what they know to be true, from their past studies, fact is there is more and more being learned everyday, there is research going on, maybe not here in the states, but still research is being done, and I don't know anyone that already knows everything that has been published, tried, failed, worked etc..

so these are the field studies cathy johnson delany has been repeating over the years,

who has enough faith in the HPW to feed it alone, and have their glider constantly blood checked to see how the calcium works heads up?

I have enough faith in the BML to do it.. that would be on the upper end, who is willing to do it with the HPW on the lower end?

Re: Too much calcium? [Re: Bourbon] #839469
09/17/09 10:57 AM
09/17/09 10:57 AM

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I can not WAIT to see the results you get from BML..

Re: Too much calcium? [Re: ] #839473
09/17/09 11:10 AM
09/17/09 11:10 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
USA
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There was a study done with diets awhile back involving Suncoasts gliders, BML was in that study.


Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.
Re: Too much calcium? [Re: SugarBlossoms] #839488
09/17/09 11:44 AM
09/17/09 11:44 AM

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Yes we know.... have you seen the blood panels from those gliders?

Re: Too much calcium? [Re: ] #840611
09/19/09 09:48 AM
09/19/09 09:48 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,970
Spring, Texas
Trigger Offline OP
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Originally Posted By: BabyLoveGliders
Yes we know.... have you seen the blood panels from those gliders?


I have seen the study and the end results of the study. Were individual blood panels done?


»-(¯`v´¯)-»MO MONEY!»-(¯`v´¯)-»
kids Chance, Dylan, John, & Kayla
Skittles, Snupi, Snuki, Lucy, Shanu, Caspian, Ivy, Kalysta, Kaliya, Santee, Cheyenne, Apache, Comanche, Twirpy, Meribelle, Santeria, Shyamalan, Sebastian, Zoey, Naira & Katsu
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Re: Too much calcium? [Re: Trigger] #840612
09/19/09 09:58 AM
09/19/09 09:58 AM

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Individual panels were drawn at the beginning, but the end results were "pools"

I will upload it again for everyone.

Re: Too much calcium? [Re: ] #840613
09/19/09 10:01 AM
09/19/09 10:01 AM

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Here ya go

Attached Files
GliderPaper.pdf (28 downloads)
Re: Too much calcium? [Re: ] #840635
09/19/09 11:23 AM
09/19/09 11:23 AM
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 4,212
Garland, TX
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Peggy has been feeding HPW exclusively for awhile. She has posted blood work on her boy that was weaned and raised on HPW. If I remember correctly his blood work was great.


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Re: Too much calcium? [Re: Mel2mdl] #840749
09/19/09 03:10 PM
09/19/09 03:10 PM
Joined: Feb 2000
Posts: 5,363
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Ok
Would there be anything wrong with adding the Calcium (Repcal) with no Phosophorus or no Vit D to the HPW diet? It is the green label.


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Re: Too much calcium? [Re: Sheila] #841048
09/20/09 05:08 AM
09/20/09 05:08 AM
Joined: Apr 1999
Posts: 5,336
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Sheila, I don't really think now is the time to do any changing in the diets , any of them, at least until we know how the calcium is actually being processed.

let me explain, I have had several people call me recently about going back to the BML, and asking about adding calcium into their HPW.

Kris has a great idea to get the bloodwork done, not just for the people on HPW but as many people and as varied as possible, to really see what the figures all look like. there is several that is willing to change up in their diets after a panel is run, to see what kind of changes are taking place.

I for one am willing to get the bloodwork done on mine, then switch their diets to the straight BML mix, to see if the calcium levels raise according to what we are feeding,

this doesn't require anything from most people, except to have the blood levels checked, and keep a tight journal on what they are feeding. They can use their own vets, keep their gliders in their normal routines, they don't even have to work out their own figures. they don't have to do all of their gliders, and they don't have to change their diets.

the key to the success of this study, is simple be honest about what is fed, and have the blood work drawn.

It will give the group that is working on this the opportunity to look at all of the diets and the effects the differences in calcium intake has on the bloodwork figures.

but at least if their bloodwork comes back at a fairly decent range, they will feel much safer as to what they are feeding.

Molly, yes, Peggy did post her bloodwork figures, and trust me that is where many of the questions really started, since the diet going in was near a 1:1 ratio and yet her bloodwork came back with a 2:1 ratio. This is not in anyway shape or form to say anything against Peggy or the HPW, but more to find out if the requirements of the gliders calcium intake and phos levels (here in the states, in captivity) needs to be a 2:1 ratio at all, or if the gliders has a special way they are metabolizing their calcium needs. The results of this community study, will make huge impacts in the diet areas, and will probably affect all of the diets. So at this time, the best we can do is to get our bloodwork done, and see what is going on with many gliders, not just a few.

everyone chose their current diet for a reason, and should stick with those choices, till at least blood work is drawn.

up to this point we have been going by the figures set for us by the research done in Australia. and interestingly enough, they can't agree either.

interesting read by an australian researcher.

Quote:
ARE PATTERNS AND CAUSES OF PAST MAMMAL DECLINES RELEVANT TO FUTURE CONSERVATION?
Ford, Fred1 and Dickman, Chris2
1School of Botany and Zoology, Australian National University, Canberra, ACT, 0200.
2School of Biological Sciences, University of Sydney, NSW 2006
Australia’s ecosystems are now mostly artificial. From the top-down and bottom-up, key roles are filled by introduced
plants, consumers and predators. Yet autecological studies still often report results as if they were based on examination of “natural” systems. In the new ordering of Australian ecosystems, many mammals are probably denied the capacity to behave, reproduce, forage and occupy habitats as they did prior to European settlement. We are still in the early stages of adjustment of the fauna to that event, and it is no surprise that many ecological studies report conflicting results over diet, habitat use and other ecological traits from remnant populations of the same species. These are probably a small subset of a much more diverse ecology 200 years ago. For conservation, the challenge is whether to maintain a narrow focus on the limited information that we have on local populations, or whether to expand the scope and scale of our efforts to re-instate or facilitate past species ecologies that we do not fully understand.
Furthermore, the widespread declines of mammals that occurred 100-150 years ago happened in a vastly different environment to today’s. Would we do better to experimentally focus on the intrinsic ecological abilities of target species, and on enhancing those abilities within the modern extrinsic environment, rather than inferring threatening processes and conservation issues from past events?


personally I think we should now concentrate on OUR gliders here in the states that are captive and see what the captivity changes, and the changes in their environments have led them, so we can help them.

without looking at what is going on as to what their needs are NOW, could we be doing them a grave injustice? is this the same place we are going to be 20 years later? OR are we going to make a choice to, at the minimum, TRY??



Re: Too much calcium? [Re: Bourbon] #841049
09/20/09 05:35 AM
09/20/09 05:35 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
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New Jersey
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Bourbon,
Great comments. Always enjoy reading what you have to say. I would be interested in participating in this "blood" thing. However, I do not feed my gliders an "approved" diet by any means. But, I have had them a year, handraised one, and they are an active, big strong and healthy bunch with some of the nicest coats and tails I have seen. One in the bunch who eats everything I put in front of him every night, as opposed to the occassional pickiness the others have at times, has such a thick coat and great muscle tone that he just amazes me. He doesnt even look like the same species LOL and yet he is related to the others. PM me and let me know exactly what you want me to do. How often blood to be drawn, etc. The only thing I am concerned about at this point is actually taking them to the vet to have the blood drawn. How tramatic would that be for them? Perhaps I should do it only on the one that eats it all, as it would be easier to keep track of the diet as opposed to the others who dont? Let me know smile


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Re: Too much calcium? [Re: JillMarie] #841066
09/20/09 08:21 AM
09/20/09 08:21 AM

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If anyone is interested please PM me..

I currently have about 5 people and I would love at least another 5. What diet. approved.. (hate that word)etc.. does NOT matter.. all names will remain anonymous.. so if you are feeding pizza.. no one will know YOU are the one that's feeding pizza.

Like B said.. only requirements are..1) have your gliders blood drawn checking ONLY ca:ph levels prior to starting.. of course you can run a full panel but for this study only ca:ph are being used. At this time we do not have any funds to help with your cost.. I am hoping to start a research fund for future studies.. I dont want to promise but we might be able to help with the final blood drawls.You do not have to do all your gliders but I'm hoping for at least 2 from each home participating. Gliders being tested need to be HEALTHY and between 6 mo-3 years old. 2) keep a feeding journal as detailed as possible.. (1 mealie, 1tbs strawberries) for 30 days. If you are feeding some of the recognized diets just say 1tbls BML.. You do not have to do any math, calculations, etc.. we will do all that for you... If you are feeding frozen mixes you will need to say 2 corn, 3 greens beans etc... we know most gliders are housed together.. dont worry about who is eating what.. it will balance..If you do have lots of left overs.. take note.. BUT you DO NOT have to be anal... really there is lots of wiggle room etc... 3)at the end of 30 days, have your gliders blood redrawn.

That's basically it! So, if anyone is interested shoot me a PM.

Re: Too much calcium? [Re: ] #841084
09/20/09 09:59 AM
09/20/09 09:59 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,970
Spring, Texas
Trigger Offline OP
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OK, I have an issue with this based on my theory that what I put in may have more BIOAVAILABLE calcium than what you FIGURE if you are just using a standard.

What I give may have the exact 1:1 ratio as a combination that you are feeding BUT say I am feeding a food that has a 75% available absorbable calcium & maybe 50% available absorbable phosphorus and the gliders are able to absorb 85%. Your food has lets say the opposite availability/absorbability. Lets just humor the situation and say our 2 gliders digestive system works identically, (we know this is not so because each is going to be different depending on EVERYTHING). Even tho our ratios going in are identical our numbers coming out won't be.
This is not dependent of only whatdiet you are feeding but dependent on every single food item offered.

We have no middle ground where you are with this. If the only change was our staple & everything else fed was identical we would at least be able to have staple & glider digestion as the variables involved. It would narrow things a little.
Even with feeding mealies there are variables involved with bedding, fruits vegis fed, what is used to gut load(if gut loaded at all) so you can't just calculate 5 mealies = ?:? ratio.

I don't have a problem with this being put out there but with it being put out there without explaining just how many variables are going to contribute to each outcome.

This is really about 100x more complicated than you are trying to make it.

Yes BLG just go ahead and call me anal now.

I wish you could find people that would agree to feed the same fruits, vegis & treats or skip treats for a couple months or so. This would at least take some of the variables away.

I would be willing to do so if asked, feed my HPW, frozen mixed vegi, and simple fruit combo(something agreed on by the majority) with those items being IDENTICAL every night.


»-(¯`v´¯)-»MO MONEY!»-(¯`v´¯)-»
kids Chance, Dylan, John, & Kayla
Skittles, Snupi, Snuki, Lucy, Shanu, Caspian, Ivy, Kalysta, Kaliya, Santee, Cheyenne, Apache, Comanche, Twirpy, Meribelle, Santeria, Shyamalan, Sebastian, Zoey, Naira & Katsu
www.jensfuzzyfriends.com
Re: Too much calcium? [Re: ] #841092
09/20/09 10:16 AM
09/20/09 10:16 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,970
Spring, Texas
Trigger Offline OP
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Spring, Texas
Originally Posted By: BabyLoveGliders
dont worry about who is eating what.. it will balance...


OK just have to question this, so in my trio cage Lucy is the first glider up ALWAYS and when corn is on the plate she eats EVERY kernel. Now by the time Skittles gets up there are only peas, grn. beans & carrots, he polishes off the peas & poor Caspian is left with carrots & green beans. He eats the carrots and in the morning I have some grn. beans left.

Are you telling me that all 3 of my gliders ratios are the same because it somehow balanced out? If so please explain.


»-(¯`v´¯)-»MO MONEY!»-(¯`v´¯)-»
kids Chance, Dylan, John, & Kayla
Skittles, Snupi, Snuki, Lucy, Shanu, Caspian, Ivy, Kalysta, Kaliya, Santee, Cheyenne, Apache, Comanche, Twirpy, Meribelle, Santeria, Shyamalan, Sebastian, Zoey, Naira & Katsu
www.jensfuzzyfriends.com
Re: Too much calcium? [Re: Trigger] #841094
09/20/09 10:20 AM
09/20/09 10:20 AM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,640
Mims, Florida, USA
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Mims, Florida, USA
I would like to see this taken to a more proffessional level. If we are going to do this thing, why not make arangement with a vet or maybe a vet school to do the studies? I think what is being planned now is a great idea, but parameters are too loose to call this true scientific research and there are many things that need to worked out before we start taking blood draws.


Anita Rae
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Re: Too much calcium? [Re: Trigger] #841099
09/20/09 10:23 AM
09/20/09 10:23 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,800
St. Johns, Florida
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
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Posts: 16,800
St. Johns, Florida
roflmao

Just have to laugh...I have been trying to get people to do blood work on their gliders along with xrays for YEARS now...FOR THIS REASON...

Only difference between you guys doing this and me...I had vets involved that were going to keep up with the numbers and ones that knew EXACTLY what to look for...

I see you guys stating that you have a *group* working on this and *We* are doing that...yet although I have asked the question what THREE times now, I have yet to get an answer...

Bourbon, WHO is *This group* or *We* that you are working with.

Bottom line is I could not agree with Jennifer more in what she posted.

Folks, listen, there is NO NEED for ANYONE to go out and start panic mode on your diet or what you are feeding and oh my gosh the numbers just dont add up in the MIX itself...
Do yourself a favor and GO GET YOUR gliders tested and see how YOU are doing with YOUR gliders. I tried to show here that just because Nicole was having issues, it was not necessarily the diet itself as I have Dasher and although he even has a health issue his numbers for calcium/P was RIGHT ON TRACT...

As for how stressed is your gliders going to be...no need to worry, it really isnt a bad procedure. If your vet is not comfortable with doing it, please have them call Tristan 361-994-1145 he will go over with your vet and also I believe he has pics if needed.

Folks, Once again, please remember the diet study that was being done a few years ago was done BY A vet and EVERY SINGLE item was noted. Although it does NEED to be done again, it needs to be done by a QUALIFIED team of PROFESSIONALS, not just by a group of us...so if you want to have a study done correctly, pool your money together and PAY a TEAM of PROFESSIONALS together to have it done.


Peggy
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If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: Too much calcium? [Re: hushpuppy] #841104
09/20/09 10:31 AM
09/20/09 10:31 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,800
St. Johns, Florida
Srlb Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
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Quote:
I would like to see this taken to a more proffessional level. If we are going to do this thing, why not make arangement with a Vet or maybe a Vet school to do the studies? I think what is being planned now is a great idea, but parameters are too loose to call this true scientific research and there are many things that need to worked out before we start taking blood draws.


We were posting at the same time Anita. I could not agree with you more!! They need to be kept with that group as well not just the numbers given.

Also I sent Tristan this question the other day...

Quote:
how much bone loss does a glider have to have in order for you to be able to see it on xray? Can you tell if a glider has MBD through xray and when you do, what is given to them to reverse this condition?



I just received his response...

Quote:
Its difficult to quantify the amount of bone loss before it is seen on radiographs, it can be very subjective. If you diagnosis MBD, then you have to determine the cause (ie low calcium in the diet, kidney failure, low levels of Vit D, etc.) Then you can determine how to treat. Most often it is dietary deficiency in calcium, but not always.
Tim


Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love� Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: Too much calcium? [Re: Srlb] #841110
09/20/09 10:50 AM
09/20/09 10:50 AM
Joined: Jan 2001
Posts: 1,640
Mims, Florida, USA
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Research…True research, has a method. It has checks and balances that make sure that the facts are true. It has a hypothesis that is either proven or disproven. I don’t mean any disrespect but many times we have seen good hearted people who honestly want to help go about it wrong. There is more to it than “If you have a sick glider, raise your hand”. And that type of research has led to speculation and kitchen table recipes being accepted as proven with no real scientific backing.

I can’t tell you how much I appreciate Dr Tristan and the other professionals that are trying to do research and do it the right way.

What I am saying is that maybe it is time for a real in depth diet study. Maybe we should pool our resources and see to it that it is done the right way


Anita Rae
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Re: Too much calcium? [Re: hushpuppy] #841126
09/20/09 11:33 AM
09/20/09 11:33 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 6,576
Kilgore, Texas
Cora Offline
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Kilgore, Texas
I just saw this thread because it was mentioned on another board. This is such a busy forum threads get missed easily.............LOL Anywho as I posted on the other board what are the NORMAL lab values for GLIDERS???? And how were thes values determined as Normal for gliders??? I need this info for my vet before I have any further blood work done. Thanks ahead of time!!


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Re: Too much calcium? [Re: Cora] #841131
09/20/09 11:47 AM
09/20/09 11:47 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,800
St. Johns, Florida
Srlb Offline
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Posts: 16,800
St. Johns, Florida
I believe it was Adri that posted this before Cora. I am sure your vet has access to this as well. Good for everyone to have though.

Merck Veterinarian Manual


Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love� Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: Too much calcium? [Re: Cora] #841132
09/20/09 11:48 AM
09/20/09 11:48 AM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,970
Spring, Texas
Trigger Offline OP
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Cora here are the tables from Merck vet Manual
Merck


»-(¯`v´¯)-»MO MONEY!»-(¯`v´¯)-»
kids Chance, Dylan, John, & Kayla
Skittles, Snupi, Snuki, Lucy, Shanu, Caspian, Ivy, Kalysta, Kaliya, Santee, Cheyenne, Apache, Comanche, Twirpy, Meribelle, Santeria, Shyamalan, Sebastian, Zoey, Naira & Katsu
www.jensfuzzyfriends.com
Re: Too much calcium? [Re: Cora] #841134
09/20/09 11:49 AM
09/20/09 11:49 AM

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EVERYONE PLEASE STOP!!!!

This is NOT a diet study.. this is strictly for preliminary results that we need to go forward... TGI will be doing all the paperwork for us getting a full grant.. yes with real labs, vets, nutritionist, checks and all the balances etc... WE NEED THIS FIRST!!

This is something small of about 10 people ... all results are going to and will be reviewed by 2 vets that we have on board with us.

posting this then I'll come back and answer your questions.

Re: Too much calcium? [Re: ] #841135
09/20/09 11:54 AM
09/20/09 11:54 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,800
St. Johns, Florida
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I still believe that the gliders IN this study need to be in the same type of environment, eating the same things having the same type of tests...

I would also like to have all the information as to WHO the people are working on this, vets information so I can call and ask any questions I may have and also have MY vet confirm things and find out exactly what would be needed, would like to know the name of the nutritionists involved along with their creditials, and how long and how much they have been working with exotics.

Once that information has been made public and references checked, I will then have my veterinarian forward any and all of my gliders information forward from past and present testing.


Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love� Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: Too much calcium? [Re: Srlb] #841136
09/20/09 11:58 AM
09/20/09 11:58 AM

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Originally Posted By: Srlb
roflmao

Just have to laugh...I have been trying to get people to do blood work on their gliders along with xrays for YEARS now...FOR THIS REASON...

OK, did you? if so would you please share what you have received?

Only difference between you guys doing this and me...I had vets involved that were going to keep up with the numbers and ones that knew EXACTLY what to look for...

We have 2 vets Peggy

I see you guys stating that you have a *group* working on this and *We* are doing that...yet although I have asked the question what THREE times now, I have yet to get an answer...


Bourbon, WHO is *This group* or *We* that you are working with.

You have not asked me this question at all.. much less 3 times.. It is approx 10 members of the community, currently 2 labs and 2 vets

Bottom line is I could not agree with Jennifer more in what she posted.

Folks, listen, there is NO NEED for ANYONE to go out and start panic mode on your diet or what you are feeding and oh my gosh the numbers just dont add up in the MIX itself...
Do yourself a favor and GO GET YOUR gliders tested and see how YOU are doing with YOUR gliders. I tried to show here that just because Nicole was having issues, it was not necessarily the diet itself as I have Dasher and although he even has a health issue his numbers for calcium/P was RIGHT ON TRACT...

WHICH is exactly where all this steamed from

As for how stressed is your gliders going to be...no need to worry, it really isnt a bad procedure. If your vet is not comfortable with doing it, please have them call Tristan 361-994-1145 he will go over with your vet and also I believe he has pics if needed.

Folks, Once again, please remember the diet study that was being done a few years ago was done BY A vet and EVERY SINGLE item was noted. Although it does NEED to be done again, it needs to be done by a QUALIFIED team of PROFESSIONALS, not just by a group of us...so if you want to have a study done correctly, pool your money together and PAY a TEAM of PROFESSIONALS together to have it done.

as noted above TGI will be starting the grant process for just that.. this however is NEEDED first to attach to the grant paperwork.

We are also working on a research fund outside of the grant.. but that is for another day and topic



Re: Too much calcium? [Re: Srlb] #841137
09/20/09 11:59 AM
09/20/09 11:59 AM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,800
St. Johns, Florida
Srlb Offline
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Posts: 16,800
St. Johns, Florida
Quote:
This is NOT a diet study.. this is strictly for preliminary results that we need to go forward.



Kris if this is NOT a diet study what preliminary results ARE you trying to get? We already have what all the numbers in a blood panel are supposed to be. WHAT are YOU guys (who ever you guys are) trying to get 8forward with*??

I am ALL for research, but I need answers as to what you are trying to find out first.


Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love� Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: Too much calcium? [Re: Srlb] #841141
09/20/09 12:07 PM
09/20/09 12:07 PM

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Originally Posted By: Srlb
I still believe that the gliders IN this study need to be in the same type of environment, eating the same things having the same type of tests...

I would also like to have all the information as to WHO the people are working on this, vets information so I can call and ask any questions I may have and also have MY vet confirm things and find out exactly what would be needed, would like to know the name of the nutritionists involved along with their creditials, and how long and how much they have been working with exotics.

Once that information has been made public and references checked, I will then have my veterinarian forward any and all of my gliders information forward from past and present testing.


Peggy, I dont think you are understanding what we are looking for... we want varied diets, we want gliders at their homes, given treats... treated as it is any other day.. this is NOT a controlled study, nor do we want or need it to be. Your past results are not needed. If you want to participate PM me.

We will not have a nutritionist for this.. that will come later with the grant.. right now as I already said.. it's for preliminary numbers so we can move forward.. with 10 community members (who will remain anonymous), their gliders and 2 vets whom I will contact for their approval before posting them publicly.

Re: Too much calcium? [Re: ] #841142
09/20/09 12:09 PM
09/20/09 12:09 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,800
St. Johns, Florida
Srlb Offline
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Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,800
St. Johns, Florida
Kris, can I please have names of ALL vets, people, nutritionalist etc that are CURRENTLY involved with all of this??

When I asked folks to get me blood work, I only had a few as many were hesitant to have their gliders put under for those things. Of course ALL this information was handed over to Tristan and is NOT currently in MY possession, as it wouldn’t do a bit of good for me to have it, but I am sure once Tim talks with those other vets, nutritionists involved, he can pass along info.


Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love� Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: Too much calcium? [Re: Srlb] #841144
09/20/09 12:13 PM
09/20/09 12:13 PM

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I think we are posting at the same time so after you go back and read all my posts.. let me know what questions you still have.

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