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Re: Hard foods cause injury or health problems [Re: Marz] #860592
11/01/09 07:39 PM
11/01/09 07:39 PM
Joined: Oct 2003
Posts: 16,800
St. Johns, Florida
Srlb Offline
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Srlb  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

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St. Johns, Florida
AWESOME post Marz thank you for the insight you have with your gliders!! It truly does help.

I would also like to add, I am sure Bourbon mentioned gizzards due to the digesting maybe? With that being said, dogs/cats also do not have gizzards.

As for gliders not having the teeth to shred, rip or for mastication...

My gliders will be the first to rip apart and shred any kind of branches I put in their cages and gliders also have 40 teeth to chew (masticate) with.

I know when I offer my gliders pine nuts they never just chew it up and spit it out, they chew it up and swallow it. Most of their foods the chew up and swallow, only leaving the outer parts (skins, peelings) from the other foods offered.

Also, lets not forget, although they are sap eaters, the Tarango zoo also offers a day old chick to their gliders for consumption along with dry kibble.

I personally believe we have just allowed ourselves to believe that our gliders are less capable than they actually are.


Peggy
Critter Love
Critter Love� Diet Center

If you want to know what a person is like, watch how he treats others.

You'll never know what the outcome is if you don't step up and try.

Re: Hard foods cause injury or health problems [Re: Srlb] #860596
11/01/09 07:48 PM
11/01/09 07:48 PM
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 708
Melbourne Australia
Marz Offline
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Marz  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 708
Melbourne Australia
Oh thanks Peggy, I did forget to mention birds and mice and I had planned to. I have seen the remains of a few feathers and one bone after a sugar glider hunted and ate a parrot that unfortunately roosted for the night in the wrong spot. All this took place in a very short time span.

Re: Hard foods cause injury or health problems [Re: Marz] #860609
11/01/09 08:17 PM
11/01/09 08:17 PM

J
jungleflockmom
Unregistered
jungleflockmom
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J



I have fed hard, crunchy food, usually dog or cat kibble, to my gliders for several years without any gum problems. In fact, without any problems whatsoever. They chew the food with their back teeth and swallow.

I used to soak the food in fruit juice for a bit as, after reading here that hard foods were potentially dangerous, I was worried. At that time they did suck out the moisture, chew some and would leave bits that appeared chewed. If I left these in the cage, the next morning they would eat these bits and the bowl was empty.

When I saw my gliders rip and tear a citrus or euc or acacia branch then chew the bark, I was no longer worried about kibble that is at least 10% moisture.

When I serve unpeeled fruit or veggies, the peel is left. I don't have experience w/corn as I don't feed it in any form. When I serve nuts or sprouted seeds, they chew and eat the whole piece.

I have tried all of the glider specific pellets and did not like the nutritional quality of the ingredients so have not really fed these.

At this time, I regularly feed Honest Kitchen dog food which is organic, human-grade, dry raw meat, grain, and veggie/fruit and has a nice ca;p ratio.

I also feed a nectar I make that includes lots of acacia gum, bee pollen, and alfalfa; lory nectar; and fresh veggies and fruits w/euc and acacia blossoms when in season. No problems w/tearing, ripping, chewing branches and kibble.




Re: Hard foods cause injury or health problems [Re: ] #860611
11/01/09 08:22 PM
11/01/09 08:22 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline
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ValkyrieMome  Offline
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Denton, TX
Just wanted to add a suggestion.

About once a week, I offer my gliders a whole, well-cooked chicken bone (usually a thigh bone).

They LOVE biting into those and eating out the marrow. It is definitely good for their teeth, and they very much enjoy it! Last year at Thanksgiving, I gave each of my cages several turkey neck bones - again, cooked, but with all the meat (not skin) still on. The bones in the morning looked like bones found on the ground in the dessert! Since then, when I roast a whole chicken, the gliders get those neck bones as well.


Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
Re: Hard foods cause injury or health problems [Re: ValkyrieMome] #860617
11/01/09 08:34 PM
11/01/09 08:34 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,970
Spring, Texas
Trigger Offline
Glider Addict
Trigger  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,970
Spring, Texas
My gliders also get their chicken cooked bone-in & they love to tear them up.
I also give the occasional treat of a few pieces of Happy Glider kibble.

My gliders never have a problem chewing up & eating their food, as stated above they leave the shells, skins, on foods & eat what they like.


»-(¯`v´¯)-»MO MONEY!»-(¯`v´¯)-»
kids Chance, Dylan, John, & Kayla
Skittles, Snupi, Snuki, Lucy, Shanu, Caspian, Ivy, Kalysta, Kaliya, Santee, Cheyenne, Apache, Comanche, Twirpy, Meribelle, Santeria, Shyamalan, Sebastian, Zoey, Naira & Katsu
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Re: Hard foods cause injury or health problems [Re: sugarlope] #860630
11/01/09 08:59 PM
11/01/09 08:59 PM
Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,511
Texas
Jackie_Chans_Mom Offline
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Jackie_Chans_Mom  Offline
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Joined: May 2007
Posts: 2,511
Texas
Originally Posted By: sugarlope
Whenever my gliders get hard pellets, they actually put it into the side of their mouth and bite pieces off with their molars and chew. I know that all gliders are different, but I have never seen any of my gliders go at pellets with their front teeth. dunno


Same with my gliders Gretchen. All of the gliders here eat the hard foods this way.


~~ Val B ~~ 806-803-0318
Daily giving the abused, unloved, unwanted and neglected SOMETHING TO BELIEVE IN

PLEASE COMPLETE YOUR SUGAR GROUP SURVEYS!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: Hard foods cause injury or health problems [Re: Jackie_Chans_Mom] #860651
11/01/09 09:30 PM
11/01/09 09:30 PM
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,970
Spring, Texas
Trigger Offline
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Trigger  Offline
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Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 3,970
Spring, Texas
Well my gliders eat lots of foods that way, including their not-so-hard mealies.


»-(¯`v´¯)-»MO MONEY!»-(¯`v´¯)-»
kids Chance, Dylan, John, & Kayla
Skittles, Snupi, Snuki, Lucy, Shanu, Caspian, Ivy, Kalysta, Kaliya, Santee, Cheyenne, Apache, Comanche, Twirpy, Meribelle, Santeria, Shyamalan, Sebastian, Zoey, Naira & Katsu
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Re: Hard foods cause injury or health problems [Re: Trigger] #860736
11/02/09 12:14 AM
11/02/09 12:14 AM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,742
in my happy place
S
sugarlope Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
sugarlope  Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
S

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,742
in my happy place
Originally Posted By: Trigger
Well my gliders eat lots of foods that way, including their not-so-hard mealies.
That is a good point, mine do this with all of their bugs as well.

Several of my kids also swallow most of their food. I hadn't really thought about it until Dee said something above, but mine usually spit out the soft/wet food leftovers more often than they do with the dry foods.


~Gretchen

If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.
Re: Hard foods cause injury or health problems [Re: sugarlope] #861171
11/02/09 10:22 PM
11/02/09 10:22 PM
Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 9,910
Phoenix, AZ
KattyM Offline
Serious Glideritis
KattyM  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 9,910
Phoenix, AZ
I love these discussions!

Here's a question about the "bugs": would grasshoppers be better than mealies because of the harder exoskeleton (assuming aflatoxins are not an issue)?

Time to make more edits to my newbie post...


Forever owned in my heart by my :grey: "Eight is Enough" colony:

:rbridge:
• 2002: Keiko (F) + 2003: Hiroshi (M) = 2004: joey Tomoki (M)
• 2009: Sammy (F), Charlie (F), Murray (M), Herbie (M)
• 2010: BJ (M)
Re: Hard foods cause injury or health problems [Re: KattyM] #861746
11/04/09 04:20 AM
11/04/09 04:20 AM
Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 9,173
Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
Judie Offline
Serious Glideritis
Judie  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Oct 2001
Posts: 9,173
Edwardsville, Kansas 66113
I have always advised some sort of dry food to be offered 24/7 as it scrapes the teeth whereas a soft diet does not.

I feed a modified version of the BML diet plan and I also offer a Dry food on the side for my gliders to munch on. Dry food is Mazuri New World Primate as it has a Dental Guard in it. I also will change out with Mazuri Monkey Biscuits and occassionaly offer a high grade formula of Kitten Chow such as Iams to offer some sort of variety. I have never fed dog kibbles as the protein levels in it are very low.

I offer chopped fruits... always with the skin attached. Raw Snap Peas that the gliders can peal, raw snaped green beans and raw baby carrots and sliced cucumbers with the rind. I also give frozen mixed veggies.

Slushes and smoothies... I do not feed. I feel that gliders should be able to use thair hands to eat. Lapping all their dinner just does not seem natural. Also... added sugars and jucies I feel may eventually contribute to dental problems in the years to come as the gliders age.

I have never had any dental issues with any of my gliders nor offspring that I know of in the twelve plus years of owning and breeding sugar gliders. Perhaps I am lucky.... but for now I contribute the lack of dental issues due to a good diet along with a dry feed to help clean the teeth.

As to the SunCoast diet... I beleive that the staple dry food is ZooKeepers Pellets are not dry but rather a soft pellet and directions suggest discarding the staple as it drys out over night. Seems like it would defeat the purpose of cleaning the teeth if the ZooKeepers pellets are moist.

Dry foods are very safe to feed if stored properly. It is very important not to purchase a large bulk package if it cannot be consumed before the experiration date as some key essential vitamins will loose their properties.


Re: Hard foods cause injury or health problems [Re: Judie] #861815
11/04/09 12:54 PM
11/04/09 12:54 PM
Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,228
USA
I
IowaMisty Offline
Glider Guardian
IowaMisty  Offline
Glider Guardian
I

Joined: Oct 2008
Posts: 1,228
USA
I'm definitely no expert on this, but I think it's a great discussion & wanted to put in a few words.

In regards to the smoothies/relishes. I too am not a fan of blending up all of their food into a big mush. It makes eating less fun for them in my opinion. However, I have developed several of my own smoothies & relishes. In them I chop or shred many of the larger foods into bite-sized pieces, leave the smaller foods (like blueberries) whole, and I blend the foods a little finer that aren't their favorites. Anyway, I guess what I'm trying to say about that is that not all smoothies are bad. I don't add any juice or yogurt or honey or anything to mine...just fruit & veggies. And they are all designed to bring a good overall ca:ph ratio with the HPW diet that I'm feeding.

I also occasionally provide a hard pellet for my gliders (moreso when I have lactating females in case they need a daytime snack) as well as insects. With the pellet food, we used to give Premium Glider diet because it had a high protein amount, good ca:ph ratio, & pretty good ingredients overall, but I recently decided I really didn't like that blood meal was their primary protein source & one of their top ingredients, so we have since switched to Happy Glider Chicken & Happy Glider breeder formulas. We recently tried our first "junk food" night to give the gliders a little variety. We put Happy glider in their dish & threw in a few cubes of fruit smoothie for them to munch on as they thawed and they seemed to really enjoy that. I didn't know you could give them a chicken or turkey bone, so I'm excited to try that now. I'm sure they'll love it! I also try to provide euc branches or chew sticks for my fur-kids to chew on to help their teeth. I agree that branches or chew sticks are an important thing to offer your gliders, especially if you're not offering any kind of hard food. So far, we have not had any abscesses or dental issues.

Judie, on your comment - The Suncoast diet no longer uses Zookeeper's Secret (the soft pellet). They have developed a new pellet food called Wholesome Balance, which is a hard pellet.

Misty

Re: Hard foods cause injury or health problems [Re: IowaMisty] #861818
11/04/09 01:05 PM
11/04/09 01:05 PM
Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 240
Illinois
MrsBerg Offline
Glider Explorer
MrsBerg  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Sep 2009
Posts: 240
Illinois
I am also interested in the chicken/turkey bone "treat". WhenI told my husband about it,he had concerns about the bones being brittle (the reason they are not advised for dogs). I explained that if they are boiled, they would be more easily broken, and also, as they eat birds in the wild, they surely could eat a boiled bone with meat on it. My thought was to give them chicken wings, Not, my question. Do you think the wing tip bones would be too small and they could choke them? I really think this would be an excellent food source for them, even if just given as a treat.


:grey: Foehn :grey: CB

:grey: Rossby :grey: Sprite

gangel Virga 9-10-2012
gangel Cirrus 4-29-2013

The Glider Chronicles blog
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Re: Hard foods cause injury or health problems [Re: MrsBerg] #861843
11/04/09 02:25 PM
11/04/09 02:25 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,748
New Jersey
JillMarie Offline
Serious Glideritis
JillMarie  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,748
New Jersey
Bones...for sugar gliders...good question. I have a thought on this:
in the wild gliders may eat a bird or two as well as a small rodent or lizard. Some people give such things to their pet gliders (not me!) THE HUGE DIFFERENCE is that the bones are RAW!!! Raw bones are not brittle. it is UNSAFE to feed cooked bones to dogs and cats, as cooked CHICKEN bones are brittle. but it is NOT unsafe to feed RAW bones to dogs and cats, even chicken bones. Actually it is quite healthy for them to have. PM me for a link or two about that if you like. I would like to get my hands on those little round beef bones you see in the steaks (shaped like a ring...what ARE they called?)So...THAT being said, one COULD deduce that cooked bones MAY be BAD and raw bones MAY be ok. I am not sure yet how I feel about the cooked/raw bone thing. it is definately up to the glider owner/slave to make that decision for themselves and take responsability for that decision. I myself have thought about it, as my cat is already on a raw meat diet. I am getting some deer antlers from a friend to put in my glider cages to see how they react. although that is not quite the same thing...

Last edited by JillMarie; 11/04/09 02:31 PM.

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Re: Hard foods cause injury or health problems [Re: Marz] #901571
02/03/10 02:10 AM
02/03/10 02:10 AM
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,661
conway south carolina/ us
heidi Offline
Glider Slave
heidi  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 1,661
conway south carolina/ us
i give my boys baby carrots and you should see them scrap,and chew on them,i think its good mouth exercise. i really dont think they eat too much of it . for whats not scrapeded is spit out into little balls after they get the juice from it. i do this the night befor i clean there cage becouse it is a messs. but they seem to love holding the carrot and making that mess.i also offer a block of timothy hay they will sniff it and puch it ,they also use there teeth to rip it apart but again i dont think they eat it. ive found bits and pieces in ther pouch,in toys just every where.and last but ot least i give them wheat grass,they all play/eat this differently.one will ball it up and suck on it ,then spit it out.one will carry it to his pouch.and then i have one that just likes to walk on the grass,evey so often he will lick a blade but never eat it?????????i dont know maybe there more like toys then food to them???????


"promise me you'll always remeber:you're braver than you believe,and stronger than you seem,and smarter than you think" christopher robin to pooh
Re: Hard foods cause injury or health problems [Re: heidi] #901862
02/03/10 07:05 PM
02/03/10 07:05 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,305
Florida, USA
oakley Offline
Glider Slave
oakley  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,305
Florida, USA
The chicken bone debate is a big one (with dogs at least)

I feed my dogs a raw diet, and once in a while they get one chicken wing as an entire meal. Yes, bone and everything. How can I give them the chicken wing with the bone on it without causing my dogs harm? They're raw.

Cooking a chicken causes the bones to become brittle. If you have ever snapped a turkey wishbone, you know that the bones will splinter and shard which is VERY hazardous.

Raw bones are very different than cooked ones. They are actually quite flexible and offer a bunch of nutrients not found in the meat.

So, I would have to say that giving gliders cooked chicken or turkey bones is pretty dangerous. Granted, a glider wont be able to bite the bone into shards as quickly as a dog can, but cooked bones become brittle and will break with less force. Would I suggest giving a glider raw bone? Not really... a dog will eat a chicken wing in 2, 3 bites max. I wouldn't trust a raw bone to sit out for more than a few minutes without attracting flies or otherwise spoiling.

I'm going to stay away from bones and chew toys all together. Gliders don't need to chew. I believe that safe wood branches and euc provide exactly the kind of recreational chewing/tearing a glider gets in the wild.


Meghan

~__/>
{{ }}


Suggies: Basil, Mausi, Bagheera/Baloo, & the Trio
Dogs : Pretzel/Snickers
Horse: Nugget
RIP: Gato, Pepito, Pepper, and Mowgli gangel


Oakley's Glider Site
Re: Hard foods cause injury or health problems [Re: sugarlope] #1063132
01/30/11 05:40 AM
01/30/11 05:40 AM

S
SuggaBaby
Unregistered
SuggaBaby
Unregistered
S



I think the danger with dry food is that most gliders will not actually eat it. I have tried to get my gliders to eat several different types of pellets as a staple food. But because glider don't really have mouths for chewing, but sucking & scraping instead. The danger comes in when a new owner sees their glider munching on their food, but in truth they are not actually eating them. They are sucking them into cresent shaped peices & leaving the mutrients behind. IMO this probably changes the c/p ration since they aren't consuming the whole product..

Re: Hard foods cause injury or health problems [Re: ] #1063137
01/30/11 05:59 AM
01/30/11 05:59 AM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,748
New Jersey
JillMarie Offline
Serious Glideritis
JillMarie  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,748
New Jersey
Originally Posted By: SuggaBaby
I think the danger with dry food is that most gliders will not actually eat it. I have tried to get my gliders to eat several different types of pellets as a staple food. But because glider don't really have mouths for chewing, but sucking & scraping instead. The danger comes in when a new owner sees their glider munching on their food, but in truth they are not actually eating them. They are sucking them into cresent shaped peices & leaving the mutrients behind. IMO this probably changes the c/p ration since they aren't consuming the whole product..


Actually this may depend on the glider. I do give my gliders some hard foods and they do in fact eat it. Gliders also do indeed have a mouth for chewing. Ever watch them eat an insect? Remember they do eat insects and small birds/lizards in the wild, so there is some chewing and some bone chomping going on there.

You did however bring up a good point, and I have pondered this myself. When they do suck out eh juices and spit the rest out, how does that affect the diet balance? Looks Like I gotta start a new thread ....

I just re-read my older post in this thread, and since that time i have actually given my gliders some cooked bones (pork ribs) you can see how they reacted by clicking the "my gliders" in my signature smile


:grey: Bosom Buddy Creations:grey:
^website link wink

Remember that God Loves You!
Re: Hard foods cause injury or health problems [Re: JillMarie] #1063144
01/30/11 06:27 AM
01/30/11 06:27 AM

S
SuggaBaby
Unregistered
SuggaBaby
Unregistered
S



Omg kizmit is sooo cute playing tug-o-war w/ that bone!
x)

Re: Hard foods cause injury or health problems [Re: sugarlope] #1063290
01/30/11 01:54 PM
01/30/11 01:54 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,742
in my happy place
S
sugarlope Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
sugarlope  Offline OP
Glideritis Anonymous
S

Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 19,742
in my happy place
Gliders masticate their food and suck out the nutrients. I know someone who kept and bred gliders for many years. The only thing they were fed was a type of pellet, they still managed to live fairly long and healthy lives, so they were able to get the nutrients they needed from masticating the pellet and sucking out the juices/nutrients. They do swallow some of the solids from the pellets also. wink


~Gretchen

If we never loved, then maybe we would never feel pain. Love anyway. It's worth it.
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