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Hazards of PVC/vinyl esp for Pipe Benders #889951
01/06/10 12:09 PM
01/06/10 12:09 PM

H
hihihishite
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hihihishite
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Has anyone considered the hazards of using PVC to make cages/toys? There has been recent widespread concerns about plastic numbers 3,6,7. (3 is PVC)

PVC/vinyl has been known to leech phalates, vinyl chloride, and all kinds of other dangerous materials that can cause autism, lead poisoning, cancer, and many other serious illnesses.

It is even more so dangerous when heated as it releases hydrogen chloride gas, dioxin, and some 100 other toxic chemicals. I am especially concerned for those who do pipe bending.

The harder types of PVC is suppose to be "safer" but how safe is safer?

I myself use a PVC cage and am thinking about switching to something else.

Re: Hazards of PVC/vinyl esp for Pipe Benders [Re: ] #889975
01/06/10 12:53 PM
01/06/10 12:53 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,402
Michigan
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gliderma Offline
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gliderma  Offline
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There has been talk of this before and it would seem your concerns are unfounded. The PVC we generally use is also used for our plumbing & water supply, so it is safe for gliders.


Lynn Martel
616-272-4374
989-400-5686
Re: Hazards of PVC/vinyl esp for Pipe Benders [Re: gliderma] #889981
01/06/10 01:00 PM
01/06/10 01:00 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
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Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
When heating and bending the pvc pipe, it does need to be done in a well ventilated area.

All the pipe I use is waterline pvc pipe.


620-704-9109
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I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: Hazards of PVC/vinyl esp for Pipe Benders [Re: Dancing] #890002
01/06/10 02:06 PM
01/06/10 02:06 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,855
Orlando, FL
Tish84 Offline
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Tish84  Offline
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Posts: 1,855
Orlando, FL
What about conduit PVC; I heard it was less expensive...only difference is it isn't water tight


TISH

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Re: Hazards of PVC/vinyl esp for Pipe Benders [Re: Tish84] #890015
01/06/10 02:43 PM
01/06/10 02:43 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
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80 acres of paradise in KS
Not sure about the conduit. The cost isn't that much for the waterline pvc pipe though.


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: Hazards of PVC/vinyl esp for Pipe Benders [Re: Dancing] #890117
01/06/10 08:49 PM
01/06/10 08:49 PM

L
lovely1inred
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lovely1inred
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The PVC I've been using is 1.20 for ten feet at Home Depot, plumbing grade. How much cheaper can you get?

Re: Hazards of PVC/vinyl esp for Pipe Benders [Re: ] #890119
01/06/10 08:51 PM
01/06/10 08:51 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,855
Orlando, FL
Tish84 Offline
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Tish84  Offline
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Orlando, FL
I was referring to the connectors

Last edited by Tish84; 01/06/10 08:51 PM.

TISH

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Re: Hazards of PVC/vinyl esp for Pipe Benders [Re: Tish84] #890128
01/06/10 09:05 PM
01/06/10 09:05 PM

L
lovely1inred
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lovely1inred
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L



Oh! Yeah I've seen the connectors a bit cheaper, I think they are measured differently though. I tried to fit 1/2 inch of that to 1/2 inch of the regular pipe and it didn't go...so I think it's a difference in inner diameter measure vs. outer diameter measure, or maybe somebody threw one in the wrong bin. It was weird at home depot the connectors I got that were plumbing grade for the elbows were .28 each, the "constructors package" or whatever they call the econo-pack of the other was gonna be .35 each. Maybe it all depends on what they labelled everything that week. *shrug* I dunno, I tend to have more of my blond moments in the hardware store. Seriously, this guy in the parking lot took pity on me and showed me how to use the pipe cutter I'd just bought because I couldn't figure out how it opened.

Re: Hazards of PVC/vinyl esp for Pipe Benders [Re: ] #890307
01/07/10 12:49 PM
01/07/10 12:49 PM

H
hihihishite
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hihihishite
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The rigid plumbing pipes are suppose to be "safer" since they don't have as much (or any?) of the phthalates used to make softer PVC, but it still contains other harmful substances that will leech out over time, especially when subjected to heat, stress, or direct sunlight.

It is deemed as safe because the levels at which this happens has not been found to be immediately dangerous to human beings. If used as the manufacturer intended, as piping, this is probably somewhat true. However sugar gliders are much smaller and more susceptible to toxins so I fear it could be hazardous for them.


Also, just because we use it for our water supply doesn't necessarily mean it's safe. For years we used asbestos in buildings and thought it was safe. PVC, including the pipes, is already banned in other countries and is being banned in some states.

Re: Hazards of PVC/vinyl esp for Pipe Benders [Re: ] #890333
01/07/10 02:38 PM
01/07/10 02:38 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,855
Orlando, FL
Tish84 Offline
Glider Slave
Tish84  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,855
Orlando, FL
Can you post the research to back that claim up?


TISH

Lana (Siberian Husky)
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:bb: :leu: :wfb: :rtmo: :cream:
Lily Fawkes Kingsley Ice Regulus Romeo Mimkin Saturn Jupiter Taiyou Kat Julianna

Glide Free My little Lily And Ice (Miss you every day)


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Re: Hazards of PVC/vinyl esp for Pipe Benders [Re: Tish84] #890373
01/07/10 04:14 PM
01/07/10 04:14 PM
Joined: Jan 2009
Posts: 7,748
New Jersey
JillMarie Offline
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JillMarie  Offline
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Posts: 7,748
New Jersey
would like to see more on this as well. I am getting ready to make some cool "toys" and want to know ALL the hazards!


:grey: Bosom Buddy Creations:grey:
^website link wink

Remember that God Loves You!
Re: Hazards of PVC/vinyl esp for Pipe Benders [Re: JillMarie] #890411
01/07/10 06:15 PM
01/07/10 06:15 PM

N
NavyChiefWife
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NavyChiefWife
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N



I hope pvc isn't bad! My husband just made me a glider playroom with it for Christmas! shock

Re: Hazards of PVC/vinyl esp for Pipe Benders [Re: ] #890429
01/07/10 07:07 PM
01/07/10 07:07 PM

L
lovely1inred
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lovely1inred
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L



Heat, stress, and sunlight don't seem to be large concerns for a glider cage though. Gliders require for the most part, a normal room temperature and are nocturnal, so there's no reason to put them in the sunniest spot in a room. Bending and heating is done during the manufacture of some toys, sure, but it's not put in the cage til cooled. I'm sure to some degree all plastics leach something. I got an email a couple months back extolling the evils of leaving water bottles in the car and re-using them. Supposedly dioxins are released and linked to breast cancer, same thing with heating plastic containers in the microwave. Were that true I really think there'd be a LOT more cancer cases and that information would them come directly from Susan G. Komen Foundation. Yanno?

Re: Hazards of PVC/vinyl esp for Pipe Benders [Re: ] #891768
01/11/10 11:51 AM
01/11/10 11:51 AM

H
hihihishite
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hihihishite
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H



There are tons of sites that discuss the risks of PVC, both rigid (pipes) and non.

Google is both your greatest friend and greatest foe.

To summarize:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyvinyl_chloride


Many of us use ceramic heat emitters to heat our cages, which are very hot. It is known that PVC emits fumes when heated. Stress and direct sunlight may not apply.

I'm not necessarily saying pipes that have been bent are bad, just that the people who do this themselves should be careful to wear proper masks and do it outdoors. I've heard of some people doing this in their oven. Opening windows doesn't exactly constitute as well ventilated.


We discover new things both beneficial and dangerous all the time. With many instances the findings are inconclusive or incomplete. It doesn't mean we should all freak out, nor does it mean we should ignore the possibilities.

Just because a foundation says this or that, doesn't mean it's set in stone. Whatever claims they make also only pertain to humans. Numerous products we use contain trace amounts of toxins that are deemed acceptable by the FDA, which we all know would never allow anything to hurt us *cough*.

Just because it's "safe" for us doesn't mean it's safe for animals. For instance, the gases released when Teflon pans are heated has been known to kill small animals, especially birds. The chlorine in tap water can be just as lethal.

Just because we think it's safe now, doesn't mean we won't realize later that it's dangerous. For instance people thought cigarettes were healthy for them because there was a study done by... scientists! Of course the study was funded by the cigarette company.

Some other examples:
sugar substitute
aluminum
UV
mold
asbestos

I'm not claiming to know anything for certain. This is just what I think and why and I am curious about other opinions. I'm asking people to do the research and consider the possibilities. People should come to their own conclusions instead of blindly accepting what so and so said.

Then again what do I know? I'm not a scientist.

Re: Hazards of PVC/vinyl esp for Pipe Benders [Re: ] #891813
01/11/10 02:03 PM
01/11/10 02:03 PM

N
NGS
Unregistered
NGS
Unregistered
N



hihihishite, totally agree and hear what you are saying. I feel the same way. I always research everything as I have a daughter who is allergic to lots of things.

Some food and indoor/outdoor allergies, wheat, corn, peanuts, dust mites, some types of grass, some types of trees, and let me tell you if you ever have a child with these kind of allergies it is very hard to maintain everything without sticking her inside a bubble.

She sees an allergy specialist. Some form of wheat and corn is in everything making her have to eat a lot out of the rice group. Because of my daughters condition I have learned how to read labels and stay way from all the chemical polluted foods and material things that are not good for you.

We do not even own a microwave, I will not allow one in the house at all. There is so much that as you said FDA deems acceptable when really it should be tossed out. It is crazy the list of things that are allowed to be passed and we consume it or use products thinking its fine because why The FDA and other groups said it was OK at the time. No thank you not us. We look up everything

I recently started looking at the materials and the chemical listing on some of the cages that are being used on for sugar glider cages and know I have already found a few that I totally would stay clear of.

I posted a little about this but did not get to deep as it seems everyone has been doing it for years and so thinks its ok.

I am asking are people that are using cages with lead in them having any test done on their gliders for lead poising?

How do they know these cages are not effecting the gliders health at all?

Are people that are using other chemical cages having any test done to know if it is effecting the gliders in any way?

Or is everyone assuming it is ok because so & so said so. When I am told something I find ways to research it and even calling company's. If you do your homework you will find out the good and bad. I totally encourage everyone out there to do the same. smile

Re: Hazards of PVC/vinyl esp for Pipe Benders [Re: ] #892494
01/13/10 09:31 AM
01/13/10 09:31 AM

H
hihihishite
Unregistered
hihihishite
Unregistered
H



Here's another thought:

We've only been focusing on the PVC pipes themselves, but that's not the only material used to make these cages.

We know that hard PVC is safer than soft.

So let's look at the PVC Pipe/Hardware cloth cage vs PVC coated wire cage.

PVC pipes are rigid.
Hardware cloth seems to be made of a fairly hard vinyl, but still somewhat softer than the pipes.

PVC coated wire seems a bit soft and tacky to the touch.

Both contain a somewhat softer type of PVC than what's used to make the pipes. Conclusion?




NGS, I've read some of your other posts and I'm really glad someone is taking the serious initiative to find the safest cage out there.

Besides contacting the company directly, where do you find these listing on cage materials? I find it very hard to get any information on them.

Re: Hazards of PVC/vinyl esp for Pipe Benders [Re: ] #892515
01/13/10 11:02 AM
01/13/10 11:02 AM

N
NGS
Unregistered
NGS
Unregistered
N



Yes it is very hard sometimes trying to find these answers. Most of my research is countless hours on the computer finding what doesn't sound right and then asking the questions and using the bookstores or public library to vaify information I have been told or read.

I know sometimes people may think I am asking some simple questions along with hard but you will never know or learn anything without asking both.

Once I find some of the information on line I then post about it, get some answers, and then contact the places the have the information on their web sites as well as contact the company's.

Bookamillion is a great place to find up dated information about chemicals and what they are really doing to our body's and pets on a daily bases.

I try to find the most up dated information. When I first started researching things for my daughter the book store is where I started and then using the Internet as a cross reference.

Call as many places as you can that will talk to you and explain the brake down of everything and how it works. Never Never Never take anyone's word for anything until you have done the research to know what they are telling you is TRUE!

This is how I come up with all my information I never fall into the so and so said so trap I always research to see what they are saying is true. Which is why I highly encourage everyone to do the same. smile


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