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Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: hwh4ev] #927961
04/08/10 12:07 PM
04/08/10 12:07 PM
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 16,087
Manitowoc, WI
BeckiT Offline
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Nancy, I'm not yet sure of they are mosaic under the white or leu (which would mean I proved out a 12.5% het!) dunno

Only time will tell with Lanie as she's just 6 months OOP and I haven't been told of Enigma had any other joeys. If they do prove to be mosaic under the white I've dubbed them "mosistic" roflmao

Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: hwh4ev] #927965
04/08/10 12:13 PM
04/08/10 12:13 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,843
Lisle, Illinois
SugareeErin Offline
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Correct me if I am wrong, but as I understand it a leu can be a mosaic underneath the leucistic coloring, therefore you can have a glider that BOTH leucistic and mosiac. So a glider that looks leucistic and can produce leus or mosaics. I am not sure who first discovered this or how it was proven, (anyone?) but with several generations of careful pairings you would be able to prove that a glider can be both mosaic and leucistic.

I have my platinum white mosaic 25% leu het "Twilight" paired with a leucistic/possible mosaic "Winter" from Sheila's new line. Their first joeys are almost OOP, they are both pure white- leucistic/possible mosaic under the leu coloring. 50-75% of this pairs joeys should be mosaic, so odds are at least one of the joeys has mosaic hidden under the leucistic coloring.



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Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: SugareeErin] #927967
04/08/10 12:15 PM
04/08/10 12:15 PM
Joined: Jan 2008
Posts: 3,843
Lisle, Illinois
SugareeErin Offline
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"mosistic" roflmao too funny!



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Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: SugareeErin] #927976
04/08/10 01:10 PM
04/08/10 01:10 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,855
Orlando, FL
Tish84 Offline
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So interesting BeckiT!! She looks like a leu because the white mos I've seen examples of have the spotted ears. If she does turn out to be a "mosistic" that'd be soo cool.


TISH

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Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: Tish84] #927977
04/08/10 01:21 PM
04/08/10 01:21 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,305
Florida, USA
oakley Offline OP
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oakley  Offline OP
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Erin,

I know what it is that you are talking about... someone did post saying that a Leu proved to be a mosaic as well.. wish I could find that post now!


Meghan

~__/>
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Dogs : Pretzel/Snickers
Horse: Nugget
RIP: Gato, Pepito, Pepper, and Mowgli gangel


Oakley's Glider Site
Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: oakley] #927988
04/08/10 01:51 PM
04/08/10 01:51 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
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Quote:
so two MO's could potentially produce a leu...


Just want to clarify this. Two MO's COULD potentially produce a leu but ONLY IF the MO's are also leu hets. If there isn't leu in both family trees, then no, they would not be able to produce the leus.

We do know that leus can mask the mosaic, just as leus can mask wf. (pairing a leu with a grey and getting a wf means the leu is also a masked wf).


620-704-9109
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I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: oakley] #927989
04/08/10 01:52 PM
04/08/10 01:52 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,402
Michigan
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gliderma Offline
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Michigan
I am still trying to understand all the genetics, too, but am curious how you would know a leu is a mosaic "underneath"? The only way would be that it would prove out in joeys with no mosaic in the lineage, correct? If a "leu" has other colors, it would be a mosaic and not a leu if I understand it correctly? And where does the "super" come in? This is all the more reason for a standard being made for all the colors, so there is no confusion and everyone is on the same page with what they have and can produce, in my opinion. Sure wish someone would publish a paper on glider genetics!


Lynn Martel
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Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: gliderma] #927994
04/08/10 02:03 PM
04/08/10 02:03 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
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80 acres of paradise in KS
Quote:
am curious how you would know a leu is a mosaic "underneath"? The only way would be that it would prove out in joeys with no mosaic in the lineage, correct?


If you take a leu/possible masked mosaic and pair it with a grey and get a mosaic joey, then your leu is also a mosaic. But there is the chance that the leu is really a white mosaic though that chance decreases with the family tree. It seems that the leu coloring is stronger than the mosaic coloring so can "mask" the mosaic.


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: Dancing] #927999
04/08/10 02:39 PM
04/08/10 02:39 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,305
Florida, USA
oakley Offline OP
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oakley  Offline OP
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Florida, USA
Dancing,

I've got a female like that right now...

She is either a leu masking the MO coloration, a white MO, or just a leu... Her parents were very low leu hets if I remember correctly, so she is probably a white MO or a leu that is masking the MO markings.

She is from Judie Hausmann and I have her with a gray from KDR. She has joeys IP so I'm very excited to see what I get!


Meghan

~__/>
{{ }}


Suggies: Basil, Mausi, Bagheera/Baloo, & the Trio
Dogs : Pretzel/Snickers
Horse: Nugget
RIP: Gato, Pepito, Pepper, and Mowgli gangel


Oakley's Glider Site
Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: oakley] #928001
04/08/10 02:46 PM
04/08/10 02:46 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
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Dancing  Offline
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Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
Is one of her parents a mosaic? If not, she isn't a mosaic.

If she is a leu, being with a grey, she won't produce leus so if you get white, you know you have a mosaic! (or masked mo)

I think this uncertainty is why I have no desire to pair leu with mo. I guess I want to be sure what my joeys are. (besides cute)


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: Dancing] #928003
04/08/10 02:50 PM
04/08/10 02:50 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,305
Florida, USA
oakley Offline OP
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oakley  Offline OP
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Florida, USA
Yep, one of her parents IS a mosaic... neither are leu if memory serves... I just PMed Judie about her lineage.


Meghan

~__/>
{{ }}


Suggies: Basil, Mausi, Bagheera/Baloo, & the Trio
Dogs : Pretzel/Snickers
Horse: Nugget
RIP: Gato, Pepito, Pepper, and Mowgli gangel


Oakley's Glider Site
Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: Dancing] #928073
04/08/10 06:11 PM
04/08/10 06:11 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,224
North Fort Worth - TX
jacknsally Offline
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Originally Posted By: Dancing

Didn't someone recently have what they thought was a Leu throw a mosaic joey? Meaning that the parent glider is actually a white mosaic and not a leu after all?


I think there's starting to be quite a few leumo's out there that people don't know what they are until they start producing but even then, it's still hard to tell. And if they keep paring them with leu hets, then the questions of leu, white mo or leumo will continue.

Kara's lil boy Burl from Alicia, looks like a leu but he had a mo & a wfb in his first set of twins. Then there's their new baby, the little girl I'm getting, she could be leu or could be mo or maybe the leumo- but unless she starts to color up, we will never know.

With Karin's, they are leu het's with the dad being a pretty low percent. Last I read I think she was thinking leu but... dunno


Ñancy
~Always on my mind & in my heart Jack, Sally & Serenity~


Mobmilli's Boutique
Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: jacknsally] #928087
04/08/10 07:02 PM
04/08/10 07:02 PM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,305
Florida, USA
oakley Offline OP
Glider Slave
oakley  Offline OP
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Florida, USA
It get's pretty confusing when you start to factor in the possibility of gliders looking like one thing, and being able to produce another!


Meghan

~__/>
{{ }}


Suggies: Basil, Mausi, Bagheera/Baloo, & the Trio
Dogs : Pretzel/Snickers
Horse: Nugget
RIP: Gato, Pepito, Pepper, and Mowgli gangel


Oakley's Glider Site
Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: oakley] #928226
04/09/10 09:34 AM
04/09/10 09:34 AM

N
NGS
Unregistered
NGS
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N



Originally Posted By: oakley
Originally Posted By: Dancing
All this is discussing the "genotype" theories. Anyone considered the "phenotype" theories?

A phenotype is any observable characteristic or trait of an organism: such as its morphology, development, biochemical or physiological properties, or behavior. Phenotypes result from the expression of an organism's genes as well as the influence of environmental factors and possible interactions between the two.

Look at the mosaic joeys Alicia produces. She seems to have some secret lab (or atleast is accused of having a secret lab) where she is creating an abundance of extraordinary joeys. Maybe there is some truth to the theroy of Alicia's joeys?



You know what? I HAVE thought about this. In one of my recent posts, I said that I believed mosaics tended to produce joeys that had markings similar to themselves. My MO has a large break in his stripe (much like many other MO's) and even his most minimally marked joeys have a hint of a break.

You know Gucci right? Kris' Glider with that spot on his hip? Well that spot has been passed on to some of his joeys.

And yes... Alicia must have a secret lab, how else can we explain how she hits the joey jackpot so often?!?!?




Not to go off topic but just wondering

Does Alicia have a website? I would love to see some of her gliders. Thanks smile

Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: ] #928238
04/09/10 10:11 AM
04/09/10 10:11 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,305
Florida, USA
oakley Offline OP
Glider Slave
oakley  Offline OP
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Florida, USA
No she does not! tant

I really wish she had a site where we could drool over all of those pretty babies whenever we wanted to! roflmao


Meghan

~__/>
{{ }}


Suggies: Basil, Mausi, Bagheera/Baloo, & the Trio
Dogs : Pretzel/Snickers
Horse: Nugget
RIP: Gato, Pepito, Pepper, and Mowgli gangel


Oakley's Glider Site
Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: oakley] #928242
04/09/10 10:30 AM
04/09/10 10:30 AM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,823
Wichita Falls, Texas
DirtyPaws Offline
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Thought it was like Sweet N Sour Sugar Gliders or something like that. dunno


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Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: DirtyPaws] #928259
04/09/10 11:25 AM
04/09/10 11:25 AM
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 2,305
Florida, USA
oakley Offline OP
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I know... I just don't see a link to it anymore on her profile on SGN... I'll ask her..


Meghan

~__/>
{{ }}


Suggies: Basil, Mausi, Bagheera/Baloo, & the Trio
Dogs : Pretzel/Snickers
Horse: Nugget
RIP: Gato, Pepito, Pepper, and Mowgli gangel


Oakley's Glider Site
Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: DirtyPaws] #928476
04/09/10 06:26 PM
04/09/10 06:26 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,224
North Fort Worth - TX
jacknsally Offline
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Originally Posted By: DirtyPaws
Thought it was like Sweet N Sour Sugar Gliders or something like that. dunno


It was but she has since let it close, since it was mostly to order her sissy's.


Ñancy
~Always on my mind & in my heart Jack, Sally & Serenity~


Mobmilli's Boutique
Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: jacknsally] #928559
04/09/10 09:14 PM
04/09/10 09:14 PM
Joined: Sep 2008
Posts: 1,823
Wichita Falls, Texas
DirtyPaws Offline
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She had a bunch of pics up on it though ~ just couldn't remember how recent I'd been on it to know what gliders would be there. I found it and most of the pics are broken links now. frown

Okay, so I hope you all resume the genetics discussion! I never have anything super smart to say, but I'm always here learning!


~~~ Crystal ~~~

Dot Dot heart Woobie heart Isabella heart Beetlejuice

heart Blitzy&Ella ~ Twinkie&Tiramisu ~ Dolly&Doobie

heart Taaska & Sadie ~ Teddy Bear Doodle & Sasha

heart Tiki, MoJo, Ruckus, Napoleon
Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: DirtyPaws] #928580
04/09/10 09:59 PM
04/09/10 09:59 PM

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partyofsix
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The Jolly Gliders also has a lot of white mosaics also. My mosaic boy seems to only produce white mosaics. The gene is very strong in this line I'm told.

Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: ] #928617
04/09/10 11:09 PM
04/09/10 11:09 PM
Joined: Aug 2009
Posts: 1,855
Orlando, FL
Tish84 Offline
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Tish84  Offline
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Orlando, FL
Originally Posted By: partyofsix
The Jolly Gliders also has a lot of white mosaics also. My mosaic boy seems to only produce white mosaics. The gene is very strong in this line I'm told.


Good to know smile


TISH

Lana (Siberian Husky)
2 Turtles
Bunny
:bb: :leu: :wfb: :rtmo: :cream:
Lily Fawkes Kingsley Ice Regulus Romeo Mimkin Saturn Jupiter Taiyou Kat Julianna

Glide Free My little Lily And Ice (Miss you every day)


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Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: Tish84] #942741
05/13/10 04:27 AM
05/13/10 04:27 AM

T
threewingedfury
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threewingedfury
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I'd personally like to see the statistics of joeys produced from a Mo x Mo pair. What would be interesting to see is the number of joeys produced from the pair from each litter, how often they're produced and what phenotype they appear to be. This can become difficult though since glider litters are so small.

The reason why I say this, is because we don't really know if mosaics can even exist in the homozygous state. I'm gonna bring up another species to explain (please don't think I'm trying to compare another species to gliders, I'm just speaking genetics here). With chinchillas - you don't breed two mosaics together or two black velvets together because the white (mosaic) gene and the TOV (black velvet) gene can not exist in a homozygous state. It's pretty much considered the lethal gene, and the homozygous fetus dies in utero and is reabsorbed resulting in a lower number of kits. Now, if you were to take a mosaic pair and realize that you get less joeys (regardless of phenotype) from a certain mating, then it is possible that mosaics can't exist in the homozygous state.

This is something I'd personally like to test in the far future or study from afar, but rather interesting to digest. I don't like comparing species, but it's practically the same idea.

In fact, are there any lethal genes that have been discovered in gliders yet?

Last edited by threewingedfury; 05/13/10 04:29 AM.
Re: Mosaic Genetics (here we go again) [Re: ] #942746
05/13/10 06:43 AM
05/13/10 06:43 AM
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 2,664
Hudson Valley, NY
krysKritters Offline
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I don't think there are any "lethal" genes as you describe. However, I know the albino gene is very fragile. I believe albino's life span is significantly shorter as well.


Krys DeRosa
Godfather of the NY Glider Mafia

KrysKritters.comcloud9

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