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Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: DirtyPaws] #941782
05/10/10 11:16 PM
05/10/10 11:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 8,366
Quincy, IL 62305
Lynsie Offline
Serious Glideritis
Lynsie  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 8,366
Quincy, IL 62305
Originally Posted By: DirtyPaws
Ok, I had a feeling that PP being listed as Snow White's breeder was an error. And I too trust Sheila's word and also know there are errors in the data base ohwell

I knew Poncho was a grey and was assuming his mate to be the carrier of sterility. I just looked at him to see what joey's were listed to see if any had mother 'unknown.' Just trying to find out if there were more born to this unamed mo female.

Ok now, if Jasmine was labeled poss. sterile (she's from this unamed female mo from Moreno lines ~ for those just trying to follow here) Does that mean that 'we' know that steriles were already born to Jasmine's parents? Or the grandparents we can't find lineage for? I'm not questioning that Jasmine was/wasn't sold as poss. sterile I'm just trying to know the EXACT why.

Lynsie, I know you know KDR so I trust what you're saying about Jasmine & Aladdin. But I want to make sure I understand. NO steriles were born to them? Or you're just aware that some of the males proved out? Are you aware if all males were bred? I can't expect you to answer for him but this just may be knowledge you already know smile

Could it be that no more steriles were born in this line after this Moreno female mo? *ponders*

I also see where Champ was paired with Cammie and Julie. Could have been a trio. We would have to look at each of Tilly's joeys to see if any of her joeys/downline were sterile or just the ones where Champ was the father.

Could Tilly's line have been being called sterile when it was really Champ and his other girlfriends? (since we know HE had non-producing males) Or do we know of steriles directly in Tilly's downline.

Spinning again! Thank you all for sharing and putting this in black and white tounge


I'm not sure of how many of the males proved out, you would have to ask Kris about that. I just know that some of them have. I beleive Jasmine has produced mainly females so far.

Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: DirtyPaws] #941786
05/10/10 11:20 PM
05/10/10 11:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 841
Houston, Texas
gliderboy4life Offline
Glider Guardian
gliderboy4life  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 841
Houston, Texas
Tilly is a sterile line, champ is not sterile. Tilly was paired with another male, a WF named casino and produced sterility.

There are many different sterile mosaic lines, there is Sally, Ms. Leu, Lollie, Tilly, Helena, Heidi, Bianca and maybe a few others.

Priscilla took on only about 8 mosaics when she got them from Helen. It was believed that to produce mosaics there were hets. So that is how the sterility came about from continuous inbreeding.

Champ most likely came from the mosaic line, several joeys from the original mosaics appeared champagne.

I know Mother white was wild caught. She didn't live long. I think when she came in, a few others did-some of which might have been the ones listed above....not sure though. Odds are they are all related. What are the odds of catching such a different color in the wild and them not being related.

Anyways, we have snow white who is producing, this is most likely b/c it hadn't been inbred to the point of sterility.

A majority of mikes stuff came from helens line, so again related to the other mosaics.

There is NO record of any of the breedings done before priscilla got them. The records were according to helen eaten by her praire dogs. I doubt she kept records of the breedings anyways as it was not common or known to do so many years ago.

So there is my knowledge based on the 2 years working at TPG.

Take it or leave it,... but thats what i know!!!


Tyler Cleckley
www.GliderBoyGliders.com
Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: gliderboy4life] #941790
05/10/10 11:27 PM
05/10/10 11:27 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
Thanks Tyler, so Bianca's parents really are unknown. Sad. Granted it was only curiosity but would have been nice to know anyway.


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: Dancing] #941793
05/10/10 11:29 PM
05/10/10 11:29 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 841
Houston, Texas
gliderboy4life Offline
Glider Guardian
gliderboy4life  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 841
Houston, Texas
Yes they are Teresa, by seeing these gliders in person you could tell most looked related with similar coloring. I believe Tilly was the most different. Most of the originals were white white mosaics.


Tyler Cleckley
www.GliderBoyGliders.com
Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: gliderboy4life] #941812
05/11/10 01:32 AM
05/11/10 01:32 AM
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 243
Illinois
tlc_in_chitown Offline
Glider Explorer
tlc_in_chitown  Offline
Glider Explorer

Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 243
Illinois
I also heard the same story of Helens records being eaten by her prairie dogs, lol. Talk to Priscilla and ask her about tilly and others. I talked to her for some time quite a while back and she was very informative. Tilly is the one that had and passed sterility that affected the males. Champ isn't the cause of the sterility in that line or he would have been sterile himself, because it affects the males. I agree with Tyler on this one.

Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: tlc_in_chitown] #941981
05/11/10 01:02 PM
05/11/10 01:02 PM

N
NGS
Unregistered
NGS
Unregistered
N



Thanks this is great information to have and beware of when researching the mosaic lines. smile

Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: ] #950263
05/25/10 01:27 PM
05/25/10 01:27 PM

N
NGS
Unregistered
NGS
Unregistered
N



would like to know if anyone else has any info please?

Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: ] #981001
07/25/10 11:04 AM
07/25/10 11:04 AM

N
NGS
Unregistered
NGS
Unregistered
N



Bumping this up.

Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: ] #1013496
10/05/10 09:33 PM
10/05/10 09:33 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
USA
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis
SugarBlossoms  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
USA
I was notified only minutes ago about the fact that Lollie is from a sterile line. The database was changed to show that she is but her daughter is producing males that are NOT sterile.

Does anyone know who the males are that are breeding in this line?

Why now after all this time was this just added to the database about the sterility in that line??? This information should have been in the database all along.

How "bad" is it to breed this line with a Leucistic line?


Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.
Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: ] #1013534
10/05/10 10:40 PM
10/05/10 10:40 PM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 644
Cincinnati, OH
tacasper Offline
Glider Guardian
tacasper  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 644
Cincinnati, OH
SugarBlossoms do you have Lollie's pedigree somewhere that you could share? What about her mate?

You don't want to introduce sterility to the leu lines. Sterility can skip generations. Parents can also have say 12 nonsterile joeys, then produce a sterile one. You can't always tell where the sterility will show up. In my personal opinion breeders throw out the "from producing lines" way too quickly. If one joey from the line produces, that doesn't mean that all or any of the males will be producing.

Maybe with some lineage we could give you a better idea. If you are breeding FOR leucistic with a sterile line, then you should probably stop and have your male neutered or consider a different pairing, and sell any joeys as pet only. If one is a low het carrier, then that might be a different story.


Teri

Owner of lots of beautiful suggies!
:bb: :wfb: :leu: :rtmo: :cream: :plat:

My fabulous rescue Nanuk
And Kiesha waiting in heaven

And two OCD and neurotic bulldogs Capone and Aspen!


www.sugarhighgliders.com


Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: ] #1013573
10/06/10 12:34 AM
10/06/10 12:34 AM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
USA
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis
SugarBlossoms  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
USA
Yes, Lollie is my Mary Roses' grandmother, they are listed on the Pet Glider Database. The lineage is there, however, until tonight we knew nothing of any sterility in the lines. Nothing was ever noted nor told about this. I just myself heard about this a couple of hours ago.

When I got Mary Rose, the breeder assured me she would be a "perfect" mate for Abraham my Leucistic male. I waited years to get them and wanted to make absolutely sure there was no sterility in the lines and no inbreeding. I looked at several gliders the breeder had and Mary Rose was chosen in part due to the "fact" she would be the perfect mate for Abraham.

They have had four joeys, one male was neutered, one is in a tri with two females that are both HET for LEU AND they are ALL Mosaics. One female is going to a non-breeding home with 2 other females and one female has gone to a BREEDING home to go with a 100% Het for Leucistic.

So, out of the four, two (one male, one female) are in breeding homes. This is a huge concern to me and to the people who have them now as NO ONE knew a thing about this until last night.

Mary Rose is a platinum mosaic pinto and is het for leu and Abraham IS a Leu.



Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.
Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: ] #1013644
10/06/10 07:17 AM
10/06/10 07:17 AM
Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,027
Iowa
Lindsay Offline
Glider Guardian
Lindsay  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: May 2009
Posts: 1,027
Iowa
So I have a feeling this has come about because of questions I was asking. Earlier in this topic or another related it was mentioned that Lollie was from sterile lines by Tyler. I didn't think anything of it until someone pointed out that my platinum colored white mo was from Lollie. I started asking people if they could confirm that she was or if they knew. I guess it turns out she is.

I really wish this had been caught sooner as well. I am just glad that I haven't paired my boy with anyone and can get him neutered. I do know the breeder I got him from has kept his brother to breed and didn't know they were from sterile lines either.


Lindsay

Owned by: Junior :grey: , Genevieve :grey: , and their two kids Sora :grey: and Jarren :grey:.

Also Ryuu.
Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: ] #1013696
10/06/10 09:30 AM
10/06/10 09:30 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,936
Ohio, between Dayton and Cinci...
pebbles1975 Offline
Glider Slave
pebbles1975  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,936
Ohio, between Dayton and Cinci...
I have Harmony and she is from the line of Lollie and have seen no sterility from this line. I have a boy from this line and he is producing. As far as I know there has not been an issue with any of my gliders offspring, male or female.

Last edited by pebbles1975; 10/07/10 07:07 PM.

Angie

Harmony :rtmo: , Kahne :wfb: ,
Navaeh :leu: , and Nova :rtmo:
Marsh: albino/creme Het , Mellow: Albino

http://www.freewebs.com/clementsgliders/index.htm
Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: ] #1013699
10/06/10 09:37 AM
10/06/10 09:37 AM
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 644
Cincinnati, OH
tacasper Offline
Glider Guardian
tacasper  Offline
Glider Guardian

Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 644
Cincinnati, OH
That's really upsetting that you were deceived about your lines for a profit! It really sickens me that this mess could have been avoided if you had only been told.

I know that hendsight is 20/20, but I will not buy mosaics unless I can trace their lineage all the way back to Mac and Cheese or Mother White. If the breeder only has one or two generations listed then I would be worried that they could be from sterile lines.

Back when I was still new at mosaics I bought a $1600 sterile line mosaic who is also 100% leu het with intentions of breeding her. She is not breeding at the moment, until I could gather my thoughts and figure things out. I decided that if I do decide to breed her there are a lot of people who would love mosaics as pet only, and I do not plan to pair her with a glider with any chance of leu. I've decided that though I know her lineage, I will only find homes for joeys as pet only with no lineage provided.

It sounds like you have some decisions to make too. If you continue to breed her any joeys should be sold as pet only. You should probably reconsider your pairing or have the male neutered though.

Have you contacted the breeder that you got her from? Maybe she could give you some help or insight as to why this happened?


Teri

Owner of lots of beautiful suggies!
:bb: :wfb: :leu: :rtmo: :cream: :plat:

My fabulous rescue Nanuk
And Kiesha waiting in heaven

And two OCD and neurotic bulldogs Capone and Aspen!


www.sugarhighgliders.com


Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: tacasper] #1013772
10/06/10 12:27 PM
10/06/10 12:27 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
USA
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis
SugarBlossoms  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
USA
Originally Posted By: tacasper
That's really upsetting that you were deceived about your lines for a profit! It really sickens me that this mess could have been avoided if you had only been told.

I was SPECIFICALLY told that my female was NOT from any sterile lines. I asked. I wanted to make sure she would be the "perfect" or correct if you will pairing with my Leu.

I know that hendsight is 20/20, but I will not buy mosaics unless I can trace their lineage all the way back to Mac and Cheese or Mother White. If the breeder only has one or two generations listed then I would be worried that they could be from sterile lines.

Her lineage goes way back, NOTHING showed there was sterility until it was entered into the database within the last day or so. However, as I understand it now, it WAS KNOWN all along by the breeder. I don't understand this frown


It sounds like you have some decisions to make too. If you continue to breed her any joeys should be sold as pet only. You should probably reconsider your pairing or have the male neutered though.

My Leu is getting neutered. I won't seperate them as they are a bonded pair and I can't imagine them apart from eachother. They are the ONLY breeding pair I have, I waited YEARS to get them and am not happy about any of this one bit to say the very least!

There is also other VERY UPSET people as they waited for their joeys to be paired with their gliders!




Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.
Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: Lindsay] #1013775
10/06/10 12:41 PM
10/06/10 12:41 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
USA
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis
SugarBlossoms  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
USA
Originally Posted By: Lindsay


I really wish this had been caught sooner as well. I am just glad that I haven't paired my boy with anyone and can get him neutered. I do know the breeder I got him from has kept his brother to breed and didn't know they were from sterile lines either.



There was nothing to be "caught" as it was obviously already known by the breeder but NOT told to "us"! I want to know exactly WHY we were not told and in MY case I was told my girl did NOT come from any sterile lines!

Mine have been together for over a year now and have 4 joeys! I am upset beyond belief right now!


Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.
Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: ] #1013777
10/06/10 12:46 PM
10/06/10 12:46 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
USA
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis
SugarBlossoms  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
USA
Nicole, there was also another big breeder that left years ago. Remember TheGliderNest? Big Ern? I have Penelo from him, she is the great grandaughter of Snow White.

I don't know what or who to believe about the lineages anymore. This is all so messed up with all the secrecy that has apparently gone on for so many years.


Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.
Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: ] #1013857
10/06/10 03:48 PM
10/06/10 03:48 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
USA
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis
SugarBlossoms  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
USA
I just received an "answer".

In part, I was told from the breeder that 'I never sell a sterile line glider for breeding without
letting the person know that the glider is from sterile lines. Otherwise I
consider a pet only female the same as a neutered male, cannot be used for
breeding.'


Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.
Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: ] #1013872
10/06/10 04:03 PM
10/06/10 04:03 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
Dancing Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
Dancing  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
But you were sold the glider "as a breeder"? sounds like some serious miscommunication.


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: ] #1013889
10/06/10 04:29 PM
10/06/10 04:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
ValkyrieMome Offline
Glideritis Anonymous
ValkyrieMome  Offline
Glideritis Anonymous

Joined: Jan 2007
Posts: 10,983
Denton, TX
Bridget- I'm so sorry you are in this mess.

I agree - there is far too much secrecy. There are things that are talked about quietly amongst some, but are never released for general information.

I have known about the existence of the sterile lines, but I never really knew what they were. So, if a breeder would tell me a glider was "from producing lines" I'd accept that as the truth.

While there are some things that are "secret" - I also believe there are certain breeders who tend to keep things secret. Those breeders I just won't buy from - no matter how beautiful the glider! Because, when it comes to lineage, a "secret" is a LIE - and if someone can tell a serious lie like that - who knows when they are lying!


Alden
"Animals can communicate quite well. And they do. And generally speaking, they are ignored." Alice Walker


Mom to Valhalla; 6 cats; 1 macaw; 2 hedgehogs;
and very many great gliders!

(plus the 2 skin kids)
valkyriegliders.com

Kyrie, nothing will ever fill the hole you left in my heart.
Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: ] #1013917
10/06/10 05:50 PM
10/06/10 05:50 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
USA
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis
SugarBlossoms  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
USA
I was so happy to have finally found a female after months of looking to pair with Abraham, everyone knew about this and so many people were looking for the "right" girl for his lineage.

My original intention was to have them as my only breeding pair and when and if they had joeys, to buy HETS to go with the joeys to bring up my breeding pairs to a total of three.

I have never been a breeder, my boys are neutered. I had some joeys born here that I have kept and 5 that were either given away or traded for glider things, they got neutered once I found a good vet years ago.

I did NOT want to breed for the gray kids since there were already so many going into rescue and such so I got my Abraham (Leucistic) from Rebecca and went about looking for a mate for him.

I had him 9 months before we found his wife Mary Rose. They have been together over a year now and have had 4 joeys.

I am very upset right now trying to understand what has happened and what to do. I will be getting Hammy neutered and he will ALWAYS be with his Mary Rose. THAT is not the problem. The problem is that 2 of the joeys were sold to breeding homes. GOOD well respected homes to people I KNOW will always love them as pets FIRST...however, now where do we go from here?

We don't know if they should be bred at all?


Edited to add: I am done with the breeding "world". I thought I had done everything right to ensure as perfect of a pairing for breeding as possible. I don't know what to think about any of this. If Mary and Hammy end up with any more joeys right now, they will be the last ones born here. I will enjoy the gliders I have now which are mostly my rescues and of course, Sarah who I hand raised years ago. I recently had to rehome a few of my kids due to health and financial issues and personal life issues. I am reeling from the heartbreak of everything in the past few weeks, this just sent me over the edge.... I am done.

Last edited by SugarBlossoms; 10/06/10 05:55 PM.

Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.
Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: SugarBlossoms] #1013920
10/06/10 06:14 PM
10/06/10 06:14 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,224
North Fort Worth - TX
jacknsally Offline
Glider Addict
jacknsally  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,224
North Fort Worth - TX
Originally Posted By: SugarBlossoms
Yes, Lollie is my Mary Roses' grandmother, they are listed on the Pet Glider Database. The lineage is there, however, until tonight we knew nothing of any sterility in the lines. Nothing was ever noted nor told about this. I just myself heard about this a couple of hours ago.



It was posted here 5 months ago by Tyler, so it's been publicly known for atleast that long. Not that I'm defending Priscilla's practices but she does have alot on her hands and getting updates into the database, I'm sure can cause her to be slow.

Mary Rose is only 2 generations away from Lollie who has NO lineage- I've always seen it recommended to have many generations back for breeding gliders. Have you actually spoken to Priscilla about how long the knowledge of Lollie producing sterile males has been known or are you going on pure speculation & believing there's been secrecy and a cover-up?

As for breeding sterile line gliders- when has the sterile issue ever skipped generations once it's fertility has been proved out? Jason is from that line & produces - he is from Jalo & is Lollie's grandson. He is 2 generations out from the Lollie


Ñancy
~Always on my mind & in my heart Jack, Sally & Serenity~


Mobmilli's Boutique
Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: pebbles1975] #1013930
10/06/10 06:35 PM
10/06/10 06:35 PM
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,402
Michigan
G
gliderma Offline
Serious Glideritis
gliderma  Offline
Serious Glideritis
G

Joined: May 2008
Posts: 5,402
Michigan
Originally Posted By: pebbles1975
I have Harmony and she is from the line of Lollie and have seen no sterility from this line. I have a boy from this line and he is producing. I didn't know of this issue either. As far as I know there has not been an issue with any of my gliders offspring, male or female.

I have Motley, who is the mosaic son of Harmony and has produced 3 joeys so far with Dainty, WFB from Rebecca. The first twins did pass away but they had Chance, a beautiful white tipped, ring tailed mosaic on July 30th. He will be staying here with me for the purpose of expanding the mosaic lines, at least that is what the plan was. Why does it have to be so secretive? Why would you go ahead and breed gliders from any defective trait? shakehead


Lynn Martel
616-272-4374
989-400-5686
Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: gliderma] #1013970
10/06/10 07:35 PM
10/06/10 07:35 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,224
North Fort Worth - TX
jacknsally Offline
Glider Addict
jacknsally  Offline
Glider Addict

Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 3,224
North Fort Worth - TX
Motley proved out- Jason proved out, where is the defective trait? We know females can carry it but if it's not present in a male who produces, how would he pass the sterile trait?

Has anyone ever had sterility appear in a glider after a male producing from a sterile line- which would make a male carrier? If so, who are they?

My boy's mother comes from a sterile line, all her boys that have had the opportunity to produce, have produced & the others didn't show signs of being sterile. So the chances of her carrying the sterile trait, seems to be pretty slim. Isn't it possible she doesn't carry this trait at all?

I'm a cystic fibrosis carrier- there's a chance my children are as well- but if neither are, then they don't have the mutated trait to pass onto their children. Their chromosomes would all be normal, meaning their children would not have the chance of being a carrier. Wouldn't this be the same with the sterile trait?


Ñancy
~Always on my mind & in my heart Jack, Sally & Serenity~


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Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: ] #1014000
10/06/10 08:12 PM
10/06/10 08:12 PM
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
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Dancing  Offline
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Posts: 22,748
80 acres of paradise in KS
Nancy, you are correct.

Being from sterile lines does NOT automatically mean that the offspring carry the gene defect for sterility. If it was, there would be NO "producing sterile lines" now. There are those females that have produced breedable males.

The sterile gene was bred INTO the mosaics. I firmly believe it can be bred OUT as well. Me personally, I'm not willing to work with the sterile lines. I have so few joeys born here to start with.

The price that was paid for this gliders was NOT the price of a pet only glider and I believe that she was not told about the sterility in the lines. Why? I don't know. An over sight? A mix up? A case of a breeder having too many breeding gliders so a "mistake" happened?

I say that if she wants to continue breeding these gliders, that is totally HER choice to do so but I would be sure to let the potential buyers know that the "sterile issue" is there and to NOT cross any of those joeys into the leu lines. Just to be very careful with who they are paired up with.

Lord knows we have so many other breeders out there thinking that breeding defective gliders is perfectly ok. And like the cystic fibrosis, it is a "guarentee" that these gliders are carriers for the sterility.


620-704-9109
Judge not until you have walked in their shoes and lived their lives. What you see online is only part of the story.

I could have missed the pain
But I'd of had to miss the dance


The soul would have no rainbow if the eyes had no tears.
Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: jacknsally] #1014012
10/06/10 08:43 PM
10/06/10 08:43 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
USA
SugarBlossoms Offline
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SugarBlossoms  Offline
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USA
Originally Posted By: jacknsally
Originally Posted By: SugarBlossoms
Yes, Lollie is my Mary Roses' grandmother, they are listed on the Pet Glider Database. The lineage is there, however, until tonight we knew nothing of any sterility in the lines. Nothing was ever noted nor told about this. I just myself heard about this a couple of hours ago.



It was posted here 5 months ago by Tyler, so it's been publicly known for atleast that long. Not that I'm defending Priscilla's practices but she does have alot on her hands and getting updates into the database, I'm sure can cause her to be slow.

Nancy, I have NOT been on the boards much and certainly NO ONE reads EVERYTHING on the boards anyway. I have not been concerned about lineages anyway since I am NOT looking to purchase more gliders and already had Abraham and Mary last May.

Mary Rose is only 2 generations away from Lollie who has NO lineage- I've always seen it recommended to have many generations back for breeding gliders. Have you actually spoken to Priscilla about how long the knowledge of Lollie producing sterile males has been known or are you going on pure speculation & believing there's been secrecy and a cover-up?

I recieved an email today from the breeder stating that there has been NO sterility in the lines going back SIX generations. If there is NO lineage then how is THIS known?


As for breeding sterile line gliders- when has the sterile issue ever skipped generations once it's fertility has been proved out? Jason is from that line & produces - he is from Jalo & is Lollie's grandson. He is 2 generations out from the Lollie


ALSO, I knew NOTHING about lineage when I got Mary Rose, that is why I had the breeder check the lineages of her gliders with my Abraham to ensure they were of the perfect pairing lineage wise and that there was NO STERILITY IN THE LINES.


Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.
Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: ] #1014185
10/07/10 07:49 AM
10/07/10 07:49 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,936
Ohio, between Dayton and Cinci...
pebbles1975 Offline
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pebbles1975  Offline
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Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,936
Ohio, between Dayton and Cinci...
So how many generation have to be producing before you consider it bred out of the lines. So the question is when do you say that line does not have Sterility in it? I am rarely on GC anymore so I hardly ever read things unless they are told to me by other members that I need to read it.

Last edited by pebbles1975; 10/07/10 07:00 PM.

Angie

Harmony :rtmo: , Kahne :wfb: ,
Navaeh :leu: , and Nova :rtmo:
Marsh: albino/creme Het , Mellow: Albino

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Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: ] #1014190
10/07/10 08:16 AM
10/07/10 08:16 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414
Minneapolis, MN
wildlifeangel Offline
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wildlifeangel  Offline
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Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 1,414
Minneapolis, MN
The answer is that you never know if the sterility will pop back up. I was a big part of the conversation earlier this year because Nicole discovered that my mosaic, Preston was out of sterile lines. I started digging and asking questions. The biggest concern is that the sterility will re-appear if inbred (as is necessary to produce recessive colors like leucistics), I'm not even talking about severe inbreeding... just enough that decendants from the sterile lines are crossed again. That is the concern. The sterility is believed to be x-linked, however, there are different types of x-links... so we don't know if the offspring could still carry a genetic component of the defect.

As Tyler previously posted in the other thread, the sterile females are as follows:
Sally, Ms. Leu, Lollie, Tilly, Helena, Heidi, Cammie, Julie and Bianca

And just for the record, Snow white passed away a month or two ago. And many "original" gliders are identified as being bred and owned by Priscilla in the database... it's a default in the program, or was entered incorrectly in the beginning. (at one time I was sure that Priscilla had Mac and Cheese! blush )

Priscilla told me that she got the group of mosaics together from Helen. Snow White was the only one who did not pass on the sterility, as she was not inbred to that extent.

The best advice is to be smart about your pairings, be aware of sterile lines, and make sure to advise the new owners of the lineage and the possible ramifications and stigma.

http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/...u_br#Post980582
http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/...e_mo#Post982348
http://www.glidercentral.net/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/976086/1
These three are the conversations that were had about the sterile lines... (and leu x leu breeding as well.)

Last edited by wildlifeangel; 10/07/10 08:26 AM. Reason: added links

Nadine

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Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: ] #1014414
10/07/10 06:25 PM
10/07/10 06:25 PM
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
USA
SugarBlossoms Offline
Serious Glideritis
SugarBlossoms  Offline
Serious Glideritis

Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 5,830
USA
Try as I am, this all is like reading french to me! I just don't get it! frown


Keeper of Handprints on my Heart, You left your Footprints on my soul.
My precious loves that left to quickly, Peanut, Katie
Isabella, Kiwi, Bonnie and Monroe.

Spread your wings and glide free of pain,
Until the day I see you again.

God speed my precious angels. I love you. Mama.
Re: What are the three Mosaic Lines? [Re: ] #1014434
10/07/10 07:06 PM
10/07/10 07:06 PM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,936
Ohio, between Dayton and Cinci...
pebbles1975 Offline
Glider Slave
pebbles1975  Offline
Glider Slave

Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 1,936
Ohio, between Dayton and Cinci...
Ok i was just talking with Priscilla and she did say something about the issue. Then she said that Jason was producing so not really knowing the issues with Mosaics i just took that as not sterile lines. I am really sorry for not understanding this more than I did before I bred them. She wanted me to help breed out the line so that is where I got confused. I thought sterility was just when a male was sterile i didn't know that it was a whole issue.


Angie

Harmony :rtmo: , Kahne :wfb: ,
Navaeh :leu: , and Nova :rtmo:
Marsh: albino/creme Het , Mellow: Albino

http://www.freewebs.com/clementsgliders/index.htm
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